Chizik defends Gus Malzahn

[AURealist 2,185]

18 minutes ago, NCTiger1982 said:

I like Chiz but Gus is a “good” HC ?  Really ? It’s not like bama is our only loss every year or Gus has been consistently winning 10 regular season games per season and catching heat over losing to bama ! Gus has turned us into Ole Piss East and that is simply unacceptable!  Chiz is right about the BOT meddling, but he is as dilusional as Gus if thinks 7-8 wins per season losing to most of your main rivals is a good coaching ! 

War Eagle 

Chiz is about .500 life time, right?   So Gus is a good coach to him. 

[AU-24 3,063]

19 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Why would anyone care about Chizik's opinion of a HEAD coach?  

Who no one else in the country wants as a head coach.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

It's been bantied about for years regarding the early scripted plays.  Yes, those seem to work fine.  ...but then the adjustments and real on the fly coaching seems to be the bugaboo so often in Auburn's offense.

I'm sorry to those who think Gus is just fine but I don't.  There's been boucoup evidence over the years that he's in over his head.  It's fine that you disagree.  I simply hope we ALL get what we want, regardless of who's running the show.  A competent and always competitive team representing on Saturdays.

Odd some have said they don’t work because often they are scripted and not reflective of what the defense is doing. I don’t think Gus is fine but I also don’t think he is terrible as some think. It’s simple if he wins at a high level he will keep coaching here, if not he will be fired.  Both are fine by me. I can’t say someone that has accomplished as much as he has is in over his head. If it was that simple many of us would have his job. The team has always competed hard under Gus, but I definitely agree on the competency part, there has to be more consistency from him and his staff.

[AUsince72 11,084]

57 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

Odd some have said they don’t work because often they are scripted and not reflective of what the defense is doing. I don’t think Gus is fine but I also don’t think he is terrible as some think. It’s simple if he wins at a high level he will keep coaching here, if not he will be fired.  Both are fine by me. I can’t say someone that has accomplished as much as he has is in over his head. If it was that simple many of us would have his job. The team has always competed hard under Gus, but I definitely agree on the competency part, there has to be more consistency from him and his staff.

Not sure about the first part of your post as many of us complain that the opening drive or two actually works due to the scripting and then after those drives is when they suddenly go away from what worked and go into the comfort zone of Dives up the middle and Bubblescreens.... Probably due to the defense adjustments and Auburn cannot answer.  

As for the "over his head" feeling, I think that's open for plenty debate.  He does a lot well admittedly but he does a lot poorly.  I guess it's just each individual's expectations and/or desires for the team's year to year performance as to which camp one falls in.

Just to show that I'm not THAT hard headed, as for the bolded part, I'm in complete agreement with you.  If Gus can begin to consistently field competent teams that show coherent game plans to take advantage of opponents' weaknesses and he can begin to build his offenses based on the strengths of the players on the roster (while learning that OL recruiting/coaching is more important as having 21 WR's on the team) then I could absolutely get back on the bus.

Unfortunately, I just feel that's an EXTREMELY tall order at this point.  But I'd be more than happy to see it.

[aujeff11 6,243]

7 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

I've stated the thUga 2.0 gameplan was nothing but the same stuff we've seen over and over from this Offense. 

Oh, you think they should’ve completely revamped the offense in tbe ONE week that KJ was hurt?  If you paid attention, our game plan then wasn’t that similar...lol. So now we are back to you don’t have evidence that Gus ignored his business. It’s pretty clear that Gus has a whole mountain of faults, so we don’t have to speculate and speak into existence s*** that we don’t know about. Ok? 

7 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Plus, somebody REALLY paying attention realizes KJ was not good to go. 

You seriously don’t think Gus knew that? Are we having a legit argument or what? Gus didn’t play him like he was good to go. He played him like a decoy because he knew what he had on the sidelines. 

7 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Thus, I don't believe Gus was entirely present in the coaching and gameplanning.... certainly not as focused as he should be for a Championship.  

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but only a few wants to have a solid basis for their opinion, apparently. I’ve presented evidence of Gus coaching fine the same week of handling contracts, you’ve presented speculation.  Getting his contract done is just as much a part of tbe collegiate coaching business as hiring assistants,.and setting practice schedules, so your assertion that he ignored business to handle his own business makes it doubly hilarious. 

As always, War Eagle to you and your family and all of that brouhaha 

Merry Christmas  🎄

[AUsince72 11,084]

30 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Oh, you think they should’ve completely revamped the offense in tbe ONE week that KJ was hurt?  If you paid attention, our game plan then wasn’t that similar...lol. So now we are back to you don’t have evidence that Gus ignored his business. It’s pretty clear that Gus has a whole mountain of faults, so we don’t have to speculate and speak into existence s*** that we don’t know about. Mmk? 

You seriously don’t think Gus knew that? Are we having a legit argument or what? Gus didn’t play him like he was good to go. He played him like a decoy because he knew what he had on the sidelines. 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but only a few wants to have a solid basis for their opinion, apparently. I’ve presented evidence of Gus coaching fine the same week of handling contracts, you’ve presented speculation.  Getting his contract done is just as much a part of tbe collegiate coaching business as hiring assistants,.and setting practice schedules, so your assertion that he ignored business to handle his own business makes it doubly hilarious. 

As always, War Eagle to you and your family and all of that brouhaha 

Merry Christmas  🎄

Not trying to be contentious with you...not sure why you prefer arguing to conversation but whatever.  It just ain't pleasant so I'm over it,  You win.

Jeff - 1 billion

72 - Zip

War Eagle to you too and whatever "brouhaha" means in this context.  ...sorry, I used quotes again.

Regardless, I sincerely wish you well and hope you have a Merry Christmas.

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Not trying to be contentious with you...not sure why you prefer arguing to conversation but whatever.  It just ain't pleasant so I'm over it,  You win.

Jeff - 1 billion

72 - Zip

War Eagle to you too and whatever "brouhaha" means in this context.  ...sorry, I used quotes again.

Regardless, I sincerely wish you well and hope you have a Merry Christmas.

 

Just countering fact with pushed speculation, bro.

I have no qualms with you as a poster much less as a person. 

Like Dameyune Craig says “ we Gucci.”

war eagle 

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

I have no qualms with you as a poster much less as a person. 

Like Dameyune Craig says “ we Gucci.”

war eagle 

I appreciate that, thank you.  

I return the sentiment.

All's well.  

War Eagle

[Sizzle 3,909]

20 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

We disagree. The implication is AU fans feel additional pressure due to Saban success. 

Yep and everybody knows this. This isn't a "little brother" thing. Everybody tries to compare themselves to Bama that's why coaches keep getting fired after just 2 years. AU fans bring it up all the time. People are like "LOOK AT BAMA, WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT". Obviously at AU people expect more which they should but anytime something happens people are peeping over the fence trying to see what Bama is doing

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

21 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I called  plays at 50% in 2010 and 2013. I call plays at 50% on Sundays. Do you understand?

You are either fos or lying if you are honestly saying you can call out the same amount of plays watching a NFL game as you can in our Mickey Mouse offense...  This is a well known issue. I'm not the only one it happens to... Sure sometimes you see coaches know roughly what play will be coming and you will get that set up like after a time out or commercial break. But that is VERY DIFFERENT from a coach jumping up and down yelling on the sidelines telling a specific player "the screen is coming to you" the second we have lined up. 

And its interesting you got 50%  of the plays in 2010. In 2010 cameramen would get lost trying to find the ball. We haven't seen that since 2013. Which brings me to my next point, if you could just call 50% in 2013 I'm sorry for you. In 2013, everyone knew what was coming but had no idea how to stop it. There were multiple games Marshall passed less than 10 times per game. Everyone in the country knew we were going to run a zone read 90% of our plays. Just no one could stop it. Fast forward 4, 5, and 6 years later and we can't physically impose our will on teams (why this is I have a few guesses but to me Gus coach teams have generally been softer than our rivals.) In years 4 through 6, you should be able to call more than 50%, the SECOND we line up. If my 9 year old daughter who hates football can do it, ANYONE can. So your 50% in 2010 and 50% in 2013 comment holds no water. There is no way you could of called 50% in 2010. There is no way you shouldn't of been able to call 90% in 2013, and the recent years, the years with 4, 5, and 6 losses, my daughter can call more than 50% of the plays... Of course she always calls only 2 plays. Either run up the middle or screen pass...and she absolutely hates football... and has astounding accuracy. 

21 hours ago, AU64 said:

Could be but I think Chiz was spooked by the shooting that involved a number of players and Dyer's problems.....and reacted badly...clamped down on the players and lost their confidence?    And the Loeffler experiment too was a bad decision.  

None the less, the guy has been around football quite a while and observed a lot about the SEC and college football in general....and he did bring the first national championship to Auburn in about 50 years.

 

I agree 64. And have absolutely no quarrels with Chiz in the slightest. 

And I couldn't agree more about the Loeffler experiment. Tubs had been recruiting for the spread his last few years as coach. Chiz had recruited spread players from his first class as well. After Gus left, had Chiz actually went out and hired an actual spread OC, I truly think he would still be our head coach to this day. The transition from recruiting for the spread to going pro style takes time...and patience... That was something he would never get at Auburn 2 years removed from winning a national championship. That's at least A if not a couple of losing seasons forcing that change. One must look no further than Nebraska this year. They had recruited for the pro style since Tom Osborn retired. That was a LONG time ago. They went out and hired an alumnus who is a spread guy, and those pro style players in the new spread offense created the worst season in Nebraska football history. 

The change from recruiting for the spread for YEARS and swapping to a pro style with no difference in recruiting produces disastrous results. 

I truly believe Chiz would of still been our coach to this day had THAT decision been made different. Had he only gone out and hired a spread OC after Gus left.. 

[Rednilla 5,383]

22 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Not sure I'd call Gus' tenure a rollercoaster.  Outside of his first year, they avg 5 losses per year.  Even the "good" year, last year, that some like to hang Gus' hat on had 4 losses (3 in humiliating fashion).

The Gus "rollercoaster":

 

Auburn has been ranked in the top 10 during the second half of every season except this one while at Auburn, even though he finished poorly in several.

And Auburn had 2 postseason losses last year because we won the SEC West and played in the championship game. I think he gets a pass on having 4 losses that year.

[DAG 33,955]

The only thing I don't like is putting the priority on bama...Like bro, you had top 6 talent and went 3-9 with them. Don't lose any more credibility by saying we are a knee-jerk type of group. At this point, I think this fanbase is done with the inconsistency of these coaches (Tubs, Chizik, Gus). It is also interesting that two out of the three can't seem to find another head coaching gig anywhere else, but that is none of my business.

[VAtiger12 112]

The only thing I think a lot of people don't take into account with Bama/Saban and now magnified by UGA/Kirby is that.. there is a finite level of talent. If UGA and Bama are taking not just top classes but truly off the charts levels of talent, there's just a lot less talent to be recruited by others. If you imagine even a few of Saban's big pulls a few years ago going to Auburn (Kuandjo, Yeldon, Foster- even if now it looks like it's probably fine to have missed on him) you talk about having a different level of talent that probably accounts for a couple games here or there over 3 years. Which, shocker- leads to 9-10 win seasons instead of 8 win ones. Sort of like where we were during the pre-Saban years. 

That isn't to say Gus is perfect. His mindset and his schemes need work. It also means that we need to be hiring not just good-great recruiters but top of college football recruiters to come here. We need to start winning those recruiting battles more. We have good classes and sometimes great classes but not those elite level classes. I don't think as much 'development' is happening in college ball as people think. Definitely some, but not the majority. 

So I don't think we need to just throw our hands up and say "Alabama and Saban are just too good, we are fine with where we are" but we need to realize that the level of recruiting prowess Bama and now UGA have is a big factor in our inconsistency. A lot of average coaches in college football win because they have more talent than their opposition. I think the top 5 teams in the SEC this year probably would have looked about the same as Clemson or Notre Dame did with their schedule this year, for instance. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 hour ago, VAtiger12 said:

The only thing I think a lot of people don't take into account with Bama/Saban and now magnified by UGA/Kirby is that.. there is a finite level of talent. If UGA and Bama are taking not just top classes but truly off the charts levels of talent, there's just a lot less talent to be recruited by others. If you imagine even a few of Saban's big pulls a few years ago going to Auburn (Kuandjo, Yeldon, Foster- even if now it looks like it's probably fine to have missed on him) you talk about having a different level of talent that probably accounts for a couple games here or there over 3 years. Which, shocker- leads to 9-10 win seasons instead of 8 win ones. Sort of like where we were during the pre-Saban years. 

That isn't to say Gus is perfect. His mindset and his schemes need work. It also means that we need to be hiring not just good-great recruiters but top of college football recruiters to come here. We need to start winning those recruiting battles more. We have good classes and sometimes great classes but not those elite level classes. I don't think as much 'development' is happening in college ball as people think. Definitely some, but not the majority. 

So I don't think we need to just throw our hands up and say "Alabama and Saban are just too good, we are fine with where we are" but we need to realize that the level of recruiting prowess Bama and now UGA have is a big factor in our inconsistency. A lot of average coaches in college football win because they have more talent than their opposition. I think the top 5 teams in the SEC this year probably would have looked about the same as Clemson or Notre Dame did with their schedule this year, for instance. 

The biggest factor is that bama and Georgia adjust their schemes to fit there talent.  Our coach believes his scheme is superior to all others and does not attack defensive weaknesses.  he wants to run the 4-5 plays that we are really good at all the time in his mind.

[VAtiger12 112]

3 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

The biggest factor is that bama and Georgia adjust their schemes to fit there talent.  Our coach believes his scheme is superior to all others and does not attack defensive weaknesses.  he wants to run the 4-5 plays that we are really good at all the time in his mind.

There are other issues, sure. I said that Malzahn wasn't perfect. But to say that's it's 'just' that Alabama and UGA are adjusting their schemes to fit their players is just blatantly not true. They are recruiting significantly better players in general. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 minute ago, VAtiger12 said:

There are other issues, sure. I said that Malzahn wasn't perfect. But to say that's it's 'just' that Alabama and UGA are adjusting their schemes to fit their players is just blatantly not true. They are recruiting significantly better players in general. 

I agree, we are close though compared to most schools.  They are also out developing, scheming and practicing us.  Basically coaching.

[VAtiger12 112]

1 minute ago, auburnphan said:

I agree, we are close though compared to most schools.  They are also out developing, scheming and practicing us.  Basically coaching.

I don't think there's as much development happening in college as some people want to think. I think it's mostly that good players come in, a lot of muscle gets added, they learn some techniques and they are out. I think there's only a select few who are really making big jumps. I see that all across college football, Auburn is about the same as most schools in that regard. 

Scheming, that's true and where Malzahn has to keep making strides but both Alabama and Georgia are paying to have a massive staff to help with that kind of thing. We are not, and probably won't do that in the foreseeable future. We need to understand that. It's really expensive to do that and you start to get into 'tail wagging the dog' territory where the tail is the football program and the dog is the school. We threw the ball this year a lot more than we did in 2013, so it's not that we aren't changing scheme. We just aren't as deep and consistent those guys are, mostly due to roster talent and depth. 

Practice I assume is more or less the same across college football with respect to the amount of time and intensity, etc. 

[DAG 33,955]

11 minutes ago, VAtiger12 said:

I don't think there's as much development happening in college as some people want to think. I think it's mostly that good players come in, a lot of muscle gets added, they learn some techniques and they are out. I think there's only a select few who are really making big jumps. I see that all across college football, Auburn is about the same as most schools in that regard. 

Scheming, that's true and where Malzahn has to keep making strides but both Alabama and Georgia are paying to have a massive staff to help with that kind of thing. We are not, and probably won't do that in the foreseeable future. We need to understand that. It's really expensive to do that and you start to get into 'tail wagging the dog' territory where the tail is the football program and the dog is the school. We threw the ball this year a lot more than we did in 2013, so it's not that we aren't changing scheme. We just aren't as deep and consistent those guys are, mostly due to roster talent and depth. 

Practice I assume is more or less the same across college football with respect to the amount of time and intensity, etc. 

We threw the ball a lot more this year than 2013 because we had to. It had nothing to do with scheming. And surely we are much deeper and talented than Mississippi State. Let’s not even talk about Tennessee .

[VAtiger12 112]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

We threw the ball a lot more this year than 2013 because we had to. It had nothing to do with scheming. And surely we are much deeper and talented than Mississippi State. Let’s not even talk about Tennessee .

We've thrown the ball a lot more the past two years because it's been a part of a scheme change. I don't think that's up for debate? Or are people so blinded by Malzahn hate they aren't seeing that. 

[DAG 33,955]

10 minutes ago, VAtiger12 said:

We've thrown the ball a lot more the past two years because it's been a part of a scheme change. I don't think that's up for debate? Or are people so blinded by Malzahn hate they aren't seeing that. 

Well you just compared 2013 to this year in your original statement . That is how debates work or did you not know this? Of course , 2013 was a huge anomaly so that comparison was silly anyhow , but I thought I would humor it. Last year was a different story , as we could still run the ball effectively and throw in the pass. To that degree, I would agree about your assessment of last year, but once again, you were speaking of this year in comparison to 2013. I also liked how you overlooked my statement in regards to being deep and talented, but that is none of my business. 

[VAtiger12 112]

16 minutes ago, DAG said:

Well you just compared 2013 to this year in your original statement . That is how debates work or did you not know this? Of course , 2013 was a huge anomaly so that comparison was silly anyhow , but I thought I would humor it. Last year was a different story , as we could still run the ball effectively and throw in the pass. To that degree, I would agree about your assessment of last year, but once again, you were speaking of this year in comparison to 2013. I also liked how you overlooked my statement in regards to being deep and talented, but that is none of my business. 

Okay so I will amend to say that we have clearly adjusted over the last 2 seasons to throwing the ball more due to scheme changes. 

To address what you mentioned about talent, it kind of proves my point. We ended up in a dog fight with two teams that while we are more talented than them, not as much as we could be. Take any 2 players in the top 8 of Alabama's class in each of the last 3 years and take one from UGA in each of the last 3 years and you have 9 more top level players (scattered over freshman, sophomore and junior classes) on the roster than we currently have. Doesn't even matter the positions. 

Now I bet we don't lose either of those games. We would have ... a 9 win season. Suddenly we are a lot more 'consistent'. Amazing how that worked out. 
 

[keesler 5,924]

2 hours ago, VAtiger12 said:

The only thing I think a lot of people don't take into account with Bama/Saban and now magnified by UGA/Kirby is that.. there is a finite level of talent. If UGA and Bama are taking not just top classes but truly off the charts levels of talent, there's just a lot less talent to be recruited by others. If you imagine even a few of Saban's big pulls a few years ago going to Auburn (Kuandjo, Yeldon, Foster- even if now it looks like it's probably fine to have missed on him) you talk about having a different level of talent that probably accounts for a couple games here or there over 3 years. Which, shocker- leads to 9-10 win seasons instead of 8 win ones. Sort of like where we were during the pre-Saban years. 

That isn't to say Gus is perfect. His mindset and his schemes need work. It also means that we need to be hiring not just good-great recruiters but top of college football recruiters to come here. We need to start winning those recruiting battles more. We have good classes and sometimes great classes but not those elite level classes. I don't think as much 'development' is happening in college ball as people think. Definitely some, but not the majority. 

So I don't think we need to just throw our hands up and say "Alabama and Saban are just too good, we are fine with where we are" but we need to realize that the level of recruiting prowess Bama and now UGA have is a big factor in our inconsistency. A lot of average coaches in college football win because they have more talent than their opposition. I think the top 5 teams in the SEC this year probably would have looked about the same as Clemson or Notre Dame did with their schedule this year, for instance. 

See here's the thing, it's not just Bama & UGA out recruiting Auburn anymore, aTm & LSU are doing it and I have a feeling Tennessee & Florida will pickup speed in the next 12 months. 

Auburn will pull a class that may easily fall out of the top 5 in SEC recruiting this year - it won't get any easier and if we're already behind 3-4 SEC teams, it will take a dozen Brinks trucks to catch up.  Because a $#it ton of $$ is flowing on the trails, alley's, back doors and through momma's living room right now just within the SEC programs then add in the ACC & others and it's a shocking amount of cash.

 

[VAtiger12 112]

Just now, keesler said:

See here's the thing, it's not just Bama & UGA out recruiting Auburn anymore, aTm & LSU are doing it and I have a feeling Tennessee & Florida will pickup speed in the next 12 months. 

Auburn will pull a class that may easily fall out of the top 5 in SEC recruiting this year - it won't get any easier and if we're already behind 3-4 SEC teams, it will take a dozen Brinks trucks to catch up.  Because a $#it ton of $$ is flowing on the trails, alley's, back doors and through momma's living room right now just within the SEC programs then add in the ACC & others and it's a shocking amount of cash.

 

I 100% agree. So we need to be working that much harder to out recruit these guys. But a lot of people it seems are counting out 'how Bama and UGA are doing' in relation to us when they seem to think we can just find more of the guys they are taking from us. There's a finite level of talent and because we are losing more of that talent than ever before, we are becoming inconsistent. 

[DAG 33,955]

Also, just want to throw this out there. I know my varying opinion will make me a HATER, but it isn’t just about getting talent.  Talent is helpful, but scheming/development is just as important. If that were not the case then why does FSU suck so bad? Why is USC average? Texas just got nice again. Look at freaking Miami? These are blue chip caliber schools struggling and they can definitely hand pick players across the nation. I will say, the reason NS is the GOAT is because he has tapped into something instrumental.

 

He has learned to get the best out of not only his players, but the leaders shaping his players. One thing I find fascinating about NS is he is still a student to leadership. I was watching college football live yesterday and he had Kobe speak to his players. Guess what? NS was in the front row with a pen and paper, listening and learning. I found that simple action fascinating. 

[DAG 33,955]

3 minutes ago, VAtiger12 said:

Okay so I will amend to say that we have clearly adjusted over the last 2 seasons to throwing the ball more due to scheme changes. 

To address what you mentioned about talent, it kind of proves my point. We ended up in a dog fight with two teams that while we are more talented than them, not as much as we could be. Take any 2 players in the top 8 of Alabama's class in each of the last 3 years and take one from UGA in each of the last 3 years and you have 9 more top level players (scattered over freshman, sophomore and junior classes) on the roster than we currently have. Doesn't even matter the positions. 

Now I bet we don't lose either of those games. We would have ... a 9 win season. Suddenly we are a lot more 'consistent'. Amazing how that worked out. 
 

But why do we need more talent to beat teams already inferior to us? That’s my response.