The Beginning of the End?

[TexasTiger 12,828]

23 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Tex, Pence is a closet whacko IMHO. He was scary on the evening news in IN. Even for someone from AL, this guy is scary. He is way-over-the-top evangelical.

He’s out there and I’ll not be happy with him. Is he a Russian asset? Will he reject our closest allies? Will he totally disregard his Republican colleagues in the Senate? Act like a mob boss decrying “rats” that “flip”? I don’t expect to often agree on policy, but is he a pathological narcissist?

[homersapien 11,361]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I know he's basically "all gays and women who have abortions should burn" evangelical, but is he "God is telling me to nuke all Muslim countries" evangelical? 

How does one tell the difference?

[homersapien 11,361]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:21 PM, KolchakAU85 said:

Caveat: I'm a conservative, but not a Trump supporter.  But I wonder...........would liberals really take it any better from Mike Pence?  If so, then have at it.

Wanna ensure that every Trump supporter everywhere will come to the polls and vote in 2020?  Then impeach him, and Pence will easily beat Warren in 2020.

 

Why?  If the house decides to impeach him, there will be a ton of justification. This would put Republicans in both houses on the spot.  It won't be like Clinton who "merely" lied about having consensual sex.

And let's not forget exactly how Trump won in the first place. 

I think people will be fed up with Trump and the Republicans who support him.

 

[KolchakAU85 430]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Why?  If the house decides to impeach him, there will be a ton of justification. This would put Republicans in both houses on the spot.  It won't be like Clinton who "merely" lied about having consensual sex.

And let's not forget how exactly how Trump won in the first place. 

I think people will be fed up with Trump and the Republicans who support him.

 

Because impeaching Trump will:

1. Enrage his supporters and make them eager to vote against the people (democrats) who they blame for impeaching their president.

2. Ensure the republicans who hate Trump (and wouldn't vote for him again) will vote for Pence.

Most of life's greatest points can be made through movie scenes.  For example...

Remember the movie "Rambo"?  When Col. Trautman first arrived in town to help contain Rambo, he told Sheriff Teasle to quit chasing Rambo, or bad things would happen.  He told the good sheriff instead to call his men back and let Rambo keep running, and he'd be easily captured sometime later.  But hell no, the sheriff didn't listen.

Same with Trump.  If you want a democrat for president in 2020, then just leave Trump alone.  He's contained by a democratic House, and thus can't do much harm.  And he would be re-nominated in 2020, and be easily beaten by any democrat, even Hillary herself.

Otherwise, Pence will beat any democrat.

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, KolchakAU85 said:

Because impeaching Trump will:

1. Enrage his supporters and make them eager to vote against the people (democrats) who they blame for impeaching their president.

2. Ensure the republicans who hate Trump (and wouldn't vote for him again) will vote for Pence.

Most of life's greatest points can be made through movie scenes.  For example...

Remember the movie "Rambo"?  When Col. Trautman first arrived in town to help contain Rambo, he told Sheriff Teasle to quit chasing Rambo, or bad things would happen.  He told the good sheriff instead to call his men back and let Rambo keep running, and he'd be easily captured sometime later.  But hell no, the sheriff didn't listen.

Same with Trump.  If you want a democrat for president in 2020, then just leave Trump alone.  He's contained by a democratic House, and thus can't do much harm.  And he would be re-nominated in 2020, and be easily beaten by any democrat, even Hillary herself.

Otherwise, Pence will beat any democrat.

That's an unprincipled and irresponsible reason to avoid impeaching a president who clearly deserves impeachment.

Precedent is an important consideration.

[KolchakAU85 430]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's an unprincipled and irresponsible reason to avoid impeaching a president who clearly deserves impeachment.

Precedent is an important consideration.

It's neither.  It's simply a means to an end.  The sacrificing of a battle to win a war.

[alexava 6,973]

11 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

He’s out there and I’ll not be happy with him. Is he a Russian asset? Will he reject our closest allies? Will he totally disregard his Republican colleagues in the Senate? Act like a mob boss decrying “rats” that “flip”? I don’t expect to often agree on policy, but is he a pathological narcissist?

It’s hard to know. But he’s a political whore and attached to trumps sack like a tick. He’s a typical evangelical backing a shitbag every step. I have no confidence in or respect for him. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

3 minutes ago, alexava said:

It’s hard to know. But he’s a political whore and attached to trumps sack like a tick. He’s a typical evangelical backing a shitbag every step. I have no confidence in or respect for him. 

I have no confidence or respect either— but we know what he’d replace.

[alexava 6,973]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

I have no confidence or respect either— but we know what he’d replace.

That’s a real pickle. I just don’t think impeachment is a good idea for several reasons. One thing for certain is we need someone ( in 2020) who will try to unite the country. At this point I don’t care if it’s a Republican or Democrat. I’m just tired of the division and trump seems to love it. It’s exhausting and very few in Congress are not guilty of it. 

[KolchakAU85 430]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

That’s a real pickle. I just don’t think impeachment is a good idea for several reasons. One thing for certain is we need someone ( in 2020) who will try to unite the country. At this point I don’t care if it’s a Republican or Democrat. I’m just tired of the division and trump seems to love it. It’s exhausting and very few in Congress are not guilty of it. 

Agreed.  Impeachment divides so deeply, and can have ripple affects that last for years to come.  In that regard, the cost much outweighs the satisfaction some would get from seeing him removed.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

3 minutes ago, KolchakAU85 said:

Agreed.  Impeachment divides so deeply, and can have ripple affects that last for years to come.  In that regard, the cost much outweighs the satisfaction some would get from seeing him removed.

Depends on what was done. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

12 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I know he's basically "all gays and women who have abortions should burn" evangelical, but is he "God is telling me to nuke all Muslim countries" evangelical? 

I hope we never find out.

[DKW 86 7,419]

11 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

He’s out there and I’ll not be happy with him. Is he a Russian asset? Will he reject our closest allies? Will he totally disregard his Republican colleagues in the Senate? Act like a mob boss decrying “rats” that “flip”? I don’t expect to often agree on policy, but is he a pathological narcissist?

No, but crazy is as crazy does. All I am saying is when/if Trump is gone, dont be going around cheering to loudly or long. Pence may be bad but in a different way.

[homersapien 11,361]

56 minutes ago, KolchakAU85 said:

It's neither.  It's simply a means to an end.  The sacrificing of a battle to win a war.

Perhaps you need to go back an re-read my post.  It's terrible precedent to allow the president to blatantly and unabashedly violate the law.  This president already acts as if he is above the law. 

I get your point, but I would like to think preserving the rule of law is more important than winning the next election.  (Although at this point. I would be totally surprised if Republicans felt that way.)

And frankly, I don't think there would be enough political support to elect Pence if Trump is impeached.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get tainted by what comes out.

[DKW 86 7,419]

59 minutes ago, alexava said:

It’s hard to know. But he’s a political whore and attached to trumps sack like a tick. He’s a typical evangelical backing a shitbag every step. I have no confidence in or respect for him. 

He will cut and run from Trump in a 1/1000th of a New York Second...Remember I said it. Pence was a political appointment. He has almost too much starch in his shorts and I bet he is more pissed at Trump for some of his crazy womanizing, paying off of porn stars etc. I bet Pence is 5 minutes away from going full blown "Jessup" with Trump. Pence's appetite for evangelical puritanism is real folks.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

31 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

No, but crazy is as crazy does. All I am saying is when/if Trump is gone, dont be going around cheering to loudly or long. Pence may be bad but in a different way.

So I guess you would like Pelosi?

[alexava 6,973]

33 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

He will cut and run from Trump in a 1/1000th of a New York Second...Remember I said it. Pence was a political appointment. He has almost too much starch in his shorts and I bet he is more pissed at Trump for some of his crazy womanizing, paying off of porn stars etc. I bet Pence is 5 minutes away from going full blown "Jessup" with Trump. Pence's appetite for evangelical puritanism is real folks.

If it was real he would have done as Kasich did and told trump to **** off when he was approached about this appointment. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

No, but crazy is as crazy does. All I am saying is when/if Trump is gone, dont be going around cheering to loudly or long. Pence may be bad but in a different way.

I’m sure he’ll be absolutely lousy. Hopefully sane. Hopefully loyal to the USA.

[KolchakAU85 430]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Perhaps you need to go back an re-read my post.  It's terrible precedent to allow the president to blatantly and unabashedly violate the law.  This president already acts as if he is above the law. 

I get your point, but I would like to think preserving the rule of law is more important than winning the next election.  (Although at this point. I would be totally surprised if Republicans felt that way.)

And frankly, I don't think there would be enough political support to elect Pence if Trump is impeached.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get tainted by what comes out.

First, I should probably point out that I'm conservative as hell, and a republican, although I'm not a "Trump supporter".  I'm just arguing both sides of this because there are good points on both sides.

I would love a republican president in 2020.  But I think the only (but sure) pathway there is through a Trump impeachment, which I don't support at the present.

Democrats aren't near as interested in "preserving the rule of law" as they are in getting revenge on Trump.  But the revenge of impeachment wouldn't bring you guys anywhere near the satisfaction you think it would because of the damage it would do in further (and maybe irreparably) dividing the country.

I'm not saying I would never support a Trump impeachment, but if I did I would be selecting the lesser of two very serious evils. 

The ultimate selection of the lesser of two evils was realized when we were given the no-win selection between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.  Let's face it: dems and repubs are equally to blame for the fact that we have a terrible president, because neither of us could come up with an actual choice to vote FOR.  I think it's clear that most votes in the most recent presidential election were cast "Against" instead of "For".

Maybe both sides should learn something from that and try to do better next time in giving a true CHOICE.  But something tells me that we'll instead keep gyrating back and forth between "a president for the left" and a "president for the right".

[DKW 86 7,419]

9 hours ago, alexava said:

If it was real he would have done as Kasich did and told trump to **** off when he was approached about this appointment. 

I think he may have been thinking 1) Someone needs to be the grownup in the room. 2) It gets me out of Indiana...

[DKW 86 7,419]

9 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

So I guess you would like Pelosi?

Nope. Pelosi seems to be in the throes of a grand case of dementia. She is literally babbling nonsense most of the time. There are no winners here. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, KolchakAU85 said:

Let's face it: dems and repubs are equally to blame for the fact that we have a terrible president

That's simply not true and it severely de-legitimizes any claim to being a moderate or sensible anything. 

You can say that dems share the blame but it is not even remotely equal. 

 

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, KolchakAU85 said:

First, I should probably point out that I'm conservative as hell, and a republican, although I'm not a "Trump supporter".  I'm just arguing both sides of this because there are good points on both sides.

I would love a republican president in 2020.  But I think the only (but sure) pathway there is through a Trump impeachment, which I don't support at the present.

Democrats aren't near as interested in "preserving the rule of law" as they are in getting revenge on Trump.  But the revenge of impeachment wouldn't bring you guys anywhere near the satisfaction you think it would because of the damage it would do in further (and maybe irreparably) dividing the country....

If Trump is guilty of the things I suspect he is, then Democratic satisfaction - or "revenge"  - is totally irrelevant to the issue of whether or not he should be impeached.

And if convicting a criminal irreparably divides the country, I say bring it on.  If the country has come to the point where we are willing to forgo the rule of law, it's not worth maintaining as is. 

 

 

 

[DKW 86 7,419]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Nope. Pelosi seems to be in the throes of a grand case of dementia. She is literally babbling nonsense most of the time. There are no winners here. 

 

Tell me this woman is not demented...

[homersapien 11,361]

Pelosi is not certainly not "demented".  (Talk about hyperbole. )

She is the most skillful politician in the Democratic party and her record shows it.  The move to replace her was insane.

Like it or not, she will go down as the most effective speaker of the house in modern history.