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thaitopher

We Didn’t Finish in the Top 25

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3 hours ago, AU64 said:

When I hear statements like this I always wonder who the writer thinks are the "elite" coaches in college football now ?   And if AU fans demand that we have an elite coach, how do we go about hiring one of them?  

Meanwhile,  I'm wondering who on this board has claimed that Gus is "elite"?     Don't think I've ever seen that.....aside from those who continually call him a dummy.....many , like me apparently consider him solidly in the top 10 out there these day …...and on a good day, maybe a bit better considering that he does win some games against better teams. 

First of all, wtf does it matter who I think is an elite coach. I shouldn't be the one making that call. Au should have competent people in the athletic department who can identify elite coaches and hire them. Continual 8-5 seasons prove they cant. Second, if you actually read my post, I didnt say people said Gus was elite. I said I'm sick of people defending and being ok with mediocrity because its 'too hard', 'there aren't any great coaches out there', that kinda s***. Lol at you think Gus is a top 10 coach. Really? I agree he can be a top 10 at times, but consistently a top 10 coach. Hell no. Look, I like the guy as a person. Seems first class there. 

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19 hours ago, AU-24 said:

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Remember, Clemson does not have to play in the SEC West, and play the top team in the SEC East every year. Our guys just get so beat up week in and week out with our brutal schedule it’s going to be tough to win 10 games per year. Next year we’re playing Florida in Gainesville, and with what Jimbo Fisher is doing with A&M, it just gets tougher.

I just don't buy that anymore. Just sounds like more excuses at this point when we're having issues beating teams that are not that good in the SEC west. Yes, it's tough but not as tough as some make it to be. There's absolutely zero reasons for us to have struggled against a down LSU. Our worry should only have to be about Alabama in the West...then with UGA. That's part of my point is that we've missed out on valuable opportunities in the past few years when those teams were down and now many teams in the SEC as a whole are significantly improving. We have to stop giving excuses and get it done. 

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7 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I just don't buy that anymore. Just sounds like more excuses at this point when we're having issues beating teams that are not that good in the SEC west. Yes, it's tough but not as tough as some make it to be. There's absolutely zero reasons for us to have struggled against a down LSU. Our worry should only have to be about Alabama in the West...then with UGA. That's part of my point is that we've missed out on valuable opportunities in the past few years when those teams were down and now many teams in the SEC as a whole are significantly improving. We have to stop giving excuses and get it done. 

Exactly what I keep saying. Folks can cry about the schedule when we stop losing to Ed Orgeron and a Tennessee and/or MSU every year. And they really need to quit with the "beat up" thing. We had 2 bad losses before we were even halfway through our schedule. 

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Clemson would have no probs facing SEC competition. They are stockpiled with talent. Not to mention, the SEC didn't look all that great this past bowl season.

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Well, that's the thing. Dabo has surrounded himself with quality staff and let them do their jobs. That's what he gets credit for and what a lot of us would LOVE to give Gus credit for. 

Dabo's gotten the elite talent, even if not as elite as several other teams including ours. He's made the right hires. He's built a complete program where those players and that staff can thrive and reach their full potential. And he's done it at a program that is historically inferior to the blue bloods of the sport. His resume is pretty much bulletproof. 

I agree on the coaching...Gus has not made good hires on the offensive side for whatever reason and his QB coaches have not done the job IMO.  But what amazed me was that folks have been wanting to give those guys more responsibility rather than less or to cut them loose.  I've been whistling in the wind about Chip's performance most people were defending his play calling while blaming Gus for the QB issues that were Chip's responsibility. 

JMO but we are now where we should have been at least a year ago.  Chip is a good guy but IMO he was sure not up the job of outsmarting the defenses of our major opponents.... and we had some pretty good QB prospects who,  I agree, never got where we expected.    Development of BN is on Dillingham....read the job titles and coaching descriptions. 

Meanwhile go back an look again at Clemson's recruiting for the past 5 years and on the whole it is better than AU, especially in the skill positions. BN is the first QB since Cam who appears to be in the same class as Lawrence and Watson.   

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1 minute ago, AU64 said:

I agree on the coaching...Gus has not made good hires on the offensive side for whatever reason and his QB coaches have not done the job IMO.  But what amazed me was that folks have been wanting to give those guys more responsibility rather than less or to cut them loose.  I've been whistling in the wind about Chip's performance most people were defending his play calling while blaming Gus for the QB issues that were Chip's responsibility. 

JMO but we are now where we should have been at least a year ago.  Chip is a good guy but IMO he was sure not up the job of outsmarting the defenses of our major opponents.... and we had some pretty good QB prospects who,  I agree, never got where we expected.    Development of BN is on Dillingham....read the job titles and coaching descriptions. 

Meanwhile go back an look again at Clemson's recruiting for the past 5 years and on the whole it is better than AU, especially in the skill positions. BN is the first QB since Cam who appears to be in the same class as Lawrence and Watson.   

Well, it's a matter of whether you believe that our assistants have had any autonomy or if they've just been overridden by Gus. On this, you and I disagree. "Read the job titles and coaching descriptions". Yikes. Yes. Fundamental differences in our understanding of this program. 

And our recruiting classes over the last 5 years have on average been 7th-best in the country while Clemson's have been 9th-best. I gave you the wrong link the other day. That is the only objective measure of talent. After that it becomes a conversation about development and scheme. Not only has Dabo done a better job of using the available talent, but the margin is miles wide. His QBs have been better but it's significant revisionist history to pretend that we haven't had high caliber candidates. 

 

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

Clemson would have no probs facing SEC competition. They are stockpiled with talent. Not to mention, the SEC didn't look all that great this past bowl season.

Exactly. I jumped off that whole "Go SEC" train years ago. I previously supported it to a small degree but there's nothing to brag about when Bama is carrying the SEC. Just felt like I'd just be cheering for Bama. Plus, I'm worried about Auburn and AU only. 

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19 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Exactly. I jumped off that whole "Go SEC" train years ago. I previously supported it to a small degree but there's nothing to brag about when Bama is carrying the SEC. Just felt like I'd just be cheering for Bama. Plus, I'm worried about Auburn and AU only. 

I lost all conference pride after how we were treated in 2010. Screw all those bastards.

And like you said, it's been top-heavy for a few years. The West filled up with offenses that could beat bama on their best day and then Johnny Football and Chip Lindsey left and none of the rest of us won anything important. The East is starting to catch up but hell, uga might already be falling apart. I could see Mullen sticking at UF and Jimbo making it work at TAMU and we're at least talented enough to win big, but you're right, we are not the overwhelmingly dominant conference that we were from 2008-2012. 

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1 hour ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I just don't buy that anymore. Just sounds like more excuses at this point when we're having issues beating teams that are not that good in the SEC west. Yes, it's tough but not as tough as some make it to be. There's absolutely zero reasons for us to have struggled against a down LSU. Our worry should only have to be about Alabama in the West...then with UGA. That's part of my point is that we've missed out on valuable opportunities in the past few years when those teams were down and now many teams in the SEC as a whole are significantly improving. We have to stop giving excuses and get it done. 

THIS ^^^

If freaking Ed Orgeron (in his 2nd full yr in the SEC West) can finish 10-3 this season after facing (Miami/AU/OM/UF/UGA/MSU/UA/Ark/aTm) in the regular season + an undefeated UCF in their bowl game, with a transfer QB at the helm and a new OC, then there is simply no excuse for AU not matching that same record this year.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, DAG said:

Clemson would have no probs facing SEC competition. They are stockpiled with talent. Not to mention, the SEC didn't look all that great this past bowl season.

Yep. Clemson beat the best of the "best" Monday night in the NC (again) and has beaten us all four times we've played them since 2011, both pre-season-injury (for those who love that line) and post (bowls). Let that sink deep...Alabama hasn't. Dabo is absolutely elite for all of the reasons mentioned and more. And he proves you don't have to be or run your program Saban-esque in order to be.

 

 

Edited by ToraGirl
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3 hours ago, EagleEye67 said:

Best of the rest!

Sounds better than worst of the first.  

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If Clemson (or any team) had to go through a top 5 ooc opponent, the west, and this generation's UGA and Bama before even clinching their division, year over year: they'd appear less often in the cfp's

That isn't to diminish Clemson (they're monsters) or to pitty Auburn who just isn't getting it done. 

Our schedule can easily be considered on it's own merrit without being used as an excuse, and without using it to free-pass other teams. One of these years though, it really will be the reason a hypothetical 10-2 Auburn gets jumped by a 11-1 Oklahoma team, or OSU. Our schedule is an honor, and we'll win and lose by it on our own accord. But it is a uniquely harsh schedule, don't understand why anyone would argue against that fact.

 

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13 hours ago, jAUSon said:

If Clemson (or any team) had to go through a top 5 ooc opponent, the west, and this generation's UGA and Bama before even clinching their division, year over year: they'd appear less often in the cfp's

That isn't to diminish Clemson (they're monsters) or to pitty Auburn who just isn't getting it done. 

Our schedule can easily be considered on it's own merrit without being used as an excuse, and without using it to free-pass other teams. One of these years though, it really will be the reason a hypothetical 10-2 Auburn gets jumped by a 11-1 Oklahoma team, or OSU. Our schedule is an honor, and we'll win and lose by it on our own accord. But it is a uniquely harsh schedule, don't understand why anyone would argue against that fact.

 

Yeah, we play hard schedules and get screwed from time to time.  I've seen numerous posts pointing out that we routinely have a hard row to hoe, but no one is arguing the contrary.  Maybe I missed it...?

We can't seem to beat weak teams with first-year coaches, but we can at least try to play and to develop rivalries with the big boys.  As a team, we need national exposure and playing good teams in OOC games is the way to accomplish it.  Nobody cares when we play Mississippi teams or Arkansas, but we play Michigan or tOSU and the nation watches.  

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13 hours ago, jAUSon said:

If Clemson (or any team) had to go through a top 5 ooc opponent, the west, and this generation's UGA and Bama before even clinching their division, year over year: they'd appear less often in the cfp's

That isn't to diminish Clemson (they're monsters) or to pitty Auburn who just isn't getting it done. 

Our schedule can easily be considered on it's own merrit without being used as an excuse, and without using it to free-pass other teams. One of these years though, it really will be the reason a hypothetical 10-2 Auburn gets jumped by a 11-1 Oklahoma team, or OSU. Our schedule is an honor, and we'll win and lose by it on our own accord. But it is a uniquely harsh schedule, don't understand why anyone would argue against that fact.

 

Our schedule is always tough which is not a bad thing.  If we make it through that schedule and the SECCG we are basically an automatic qualifier, thanks in part to the 2004 season.  We just have to make it through.  Case in point, the 2017 season would have been the first time a team with 2 losses would have make it in the CFP because of our schedule.  If the schedule wasn’t that tough, we may not have been considered (see Penn St in 2016).

We just need to be focused the entire year and not let outside influences affect our game.  We did that in 2010 and 2013, but failed in 2017.

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6 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Yeah, we play hard schedules and get screwed from time to time.  I've seen numerous posts pointing out that we routinely have a hard row to hoe, but no one is arguing the contrary.  Maybe I missed it...?

We can't seem to beat weak teams with first-year coaches, but we can at least try to play and to develop rivalries with the big boys.  As a team, we need national exposure and playing good teams in OOC games is the way to accomplish it.  Nobody cares when we play Mississippi teams or Arkansas, but we play Michigan or tOSU and the nation watches.  

@AU-24 brought up the schedule at the top of the thread, I agreed with him- sort of sent the board into an out of context whiplash. No pitty for us @ToraGirl @aujeff11 @DAG We're powerful enough for top 12ish, didn't turn in a top 25 season. It is what it is. 

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14 hours ago, jAUSon said:

If Clemson (or any team) had to go through a top 5 ooc opponent, the west, and this generation's UGA and Bama before even clinching their division, year over year: they'd appear less often in the cfp's

That isn't to diminish Clemson (they're monsters) or to pitty Auburn who just isn't getting it done. 

Our schedule can easily be considered on it's own merrit without being used as an excuse, and without using it to free-pass other teams. One of these years though, it really will be the reason a hypothetical 10-2 Auburn gets jumped by a 11-1 Oklahoma team, or OSU. Our schedule is an honor, and we'll win and lose by it on our own accord. But it is a uniquely harsh schedule, don't understand why anyone would argue against that fact.

 

Maybe, but Clemson also would benefit from being in the SEC and would be a lot stronger than they are now. I am thinking of recruiting first and foremost. Maybe they would make it less often just for the fact that the top two teams in the nation are in the same division. With that being said, only one team in the west has been insane and that is Bama. LSU, although having a lot of talent, is very beatable. UGA last year was great. The year before last year and this year, UGA was very beatable. Every other SEC team is very beatable. The way I see it there is BAMA/Clemson - tOSU - then everyone else. I watched Oregon in their bowl game and if that is what they are bringing to the table next year, they will also be very beatable.

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Clemson plays an easy schedule now but they’re going through the same thing Bama experienced after 2013-ish where the entire conference suddenly dropped off while they were trending up. Bama never had a hard hard schedule per se, but literally everyone sucked in 2014 and 2015 it felt like. Clemson just a couple years ago had to play a top ~10 Auburn on the road, a still good FSU and Lamar, plus NCSU and the uprising Cuse. Just a team and it’s opponents going two different ways.

 

they would’ve smacked the hell out of our schedule this year btw. Cuse was better than everyone we played except Bama and MAYBE UGA. MAYBE. (Maybe). They would’ve maybe lost in Tuscaloosa but that’s it 

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20 hours ago, DAG said:

Maybe, but Clemson also would benefit from being in the SEC and would be a lot stronger than they are now. I am thinking of recruiting first and foremost. Maybe they would make it less often just for the fact that the top two teams in the nation are in the same division. With that being said, only one team in the west has been insane and that is Bama. LSU, although having a lot of talent, is very beatable. UGA last year was great. The year before last year and this year, UGA was very beatable. Every other SEC team is very beatable. The way I see it there is BAMA/Clemson - tOSU - then everyone else. I watched Oregon in their bowl game and if that is what they are bringing to the table next year, they will also be very beatable.

In tbe SEC, there are more losable teams than what the ACC puts out Clemson escaped the ACC grind while FSU and Miami were going down hill and their only decent threat was N.C. State. Auburn on the other hand, had to deal with Alabama, aTm, Mississippi State, Georgia, and a stout OOC opponent. Those are five formidable teams and iffy games from the start. Add in Florida to Auburn’s schedule next year and make it six iffy to very losable games. 

Sure, Clemson might still make it to the playoff if in the SEC, but tbe chances that they return with an unblemished record drastically drops. The chances that they lose in the CC drastically increase. Clemson had a SOS of 76 this current year and it helped their team coast and gain momentum through the finish line. That’s a fact. 

Auburn’s SOS hasn’t been that low in a while.  We had a top five toughest schedule last year and have a top four toughest schedule this year. The schedule that we have is as different as night and day and it’s going to continue. I don’t care if we have Dabo as our coach, those six games are still going to be get through. 

Yet, as long as the elite teams can continue coasting through the have-nots with minimal stumbling blocks scattered throughout the year, their goals will always be intact. 

Ironically, if there is an SECw team with a weak schedule it is Bama. Tua getting smacked in the mouth two out of the previous three games after sitting through the  fourth quarter of much of tbe regular season really isn’t a surprise at all.

Projected 2019 SOS:

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Edited by aujeff11

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1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I've been screaming it for years. Clemson essentially started under us and they have surpassed us the entire time people are screaming you can't really get better than what we're doing with bammer, uga and etc.....we literally sat back and watched them build a deep talented team while all the other schools in the area maintained their high level recruiting......it's bs man. A bunch of excuses they don't have any resources we lack,they recruited the same quality recruits, many times we battled for the EXACT same recruit. The difference is mostly of a guy was an uber recruit at wr guess what???? That guy is going to play and they are going to get him the ball.

They lost out on Montravious Adams and Carl Lawson and Clemson sent coaches to Auburn to survey our athletic dorms and facilities because they wanted to keep up. 

Now they have better facilities and better dorms. Plus they have better coaching and now we are behind and eating dust from all fronts. 

 

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1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I've been screaming it for years. Clemson essentially started under us and they have surpassed us the entire time people are screaming you can't really get better than what we're doing with bammer, uga and etc.....we literally sat back and watched them build a deep talented team while all the other schools in the area maintained their high level recruiting......it's bs man. A bunch of excuses they don't have any resources we lack,they recruited the same quality recruits, many times we battled for the EXACT same recruit. The difference is mostly if a guy was an uber recruit at wr guess what???? That guy is going to play and they are going to get him the ball.

They had a QB transfer? Starter gets hurt....guess what the other guy the back up to the back up may not be a world beater but he's adequate enough to give them a chance. Every year they know what they have at back up because he gets in the games and play when it's a blow out. They don't just ride on the starters then make excuses when he's hurt or after he graduates....only difference between the schools has been leadership and who runs the team

I know you were trying to make a point but it's obvious you did not check Clemson before using them as you example. 

For the past several years their backup QBs got almost no playing time unless someone was hurt.   For two years Watson took more than 90% of the snaps and Bryant barely saw the field for two seasons in a row as Watson's backup despite blowout wins by Clemson ...and when KB took the job the two back-ups (both4* according to Clemson) barely saw the field and both transferred...one to Jax and the other somewhere else.   This year when KB was replaced, and left, Lawrence had the job and freshman Brice (4* according to Clemson) was only backup/guy to take the job and played well enough to help them win an important game...and then he was basically back on the bench.   Why did KB leave? ...because he know what life as a backup for Clemson was like....'riding the bench' waiting on someone to get hurt.

You have some idealistic view of Clemson that is fiction.   They have recruited quite well and killed it on QBs but as for preparing for the future ….dabo did nothing special in developing his back-ups to the extent they all left after a year or so.      Remains to be seen what happens with Brice because dabo's history is that Brice will play mop-up duty or none at all.   

Do some research and I think you will find that coaches play for "the day" and backups get little meaningful time.    Take Okla where Murray is gone after this season for sure...and yet he took about 600 snaps and his back ups only had about 40 or so.  And Wash State with Leech...his starter threw 600+ passes and the backup fewer than ten.    JMO but at AU, JS was never smooth enough or in control of the game...and more playing time was always a benefit to him for the season...whether he was leaving or not.  

And, I could be wrong but seems that playing back-ups to develop QBs is over-rated because it's obvious that top  coaches barely play their back-ups despite major blowout wins during their seasons that provided the opportunity.. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:49 AM, thaitopher said:

Really thought we would. Pretty sure we could easily at least beat teams ranked 15-25. 

Sure, I think we could have beat Iowa, Boise, NW.

But the final rankings have to look at body of work for the year. Not just the Purdue game.

... and that UT game was horrifyingly bad.

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1 hour ago, AU64 said:

I know you were trying to make a point but it's obvious you did not check Clemson before using them as you example. 

For the past several years their backup QBs got almost no playing time unless someone was hurt.   For two years Watson took more than 90% of the snaps and Bryant barely saw the field for two seasons in a row as Watson's backup despite blowout wins by Clemson ...and when KB took the job the two back-ups (both4* according to Clemson) barely saw the field and both transferred...one to Jax and the other somewhere else.   This year when KB was replaced, and left, Lawrence had the job and freshman Brice (4* according to Clemson) was only backup/guy to take the job and played well enough to help them win an important game...and then he was basically back on the bench.   Why did KB leave? ...because he know what life as a backup for Clemson was like....'riding the bench' waiting on someone to get hurt.

You have some idealistic view of Clemson that is fiction.   They have recruited quite well and killed it on QBs but as for preparing for the future ….dabo did nothing special in developing his back-ups to the extent they all left after a year or so.      Remains to be seen what happens with Brice because dabo's history is that Brice will play mop-up duty or none at all.   

Do some research and I think you will find that coaches play for "the day" and backups get little meaningful time.    Take Okla where Murray is gone after this season for sure...and yet he took about 600 snaps and his back ups only had about 40 or so.  And Wash State with Leech...his starter threw 600+ passes and the backup fewer than ten.    JMO but at AU, JS was never smooth enough or in control of the game...and more playing time was always a benefit to him for the season...whether he was leaving or not.  

And, I could be wrong but seems that playing back-ups to develop QBs is over-rated because it's obvious that top  coaches barely play their back-ups despite major blowout wins during their seasons that provided the opportunity.. 

You might be right about backup snaps, but why Clemson QBs are so well prepared all the time is probably the least important part of @cole256's post. The fact is, they are while ours are not. So that is something that Dabo does significantly better than Gus. Now, I know you think that it has been 2 consecutive OCs' faults, but not one single person connected with the program shares this opinion. Well, except Gus, probably. And I know you think that the other reason is recruiting but the fact is most of Gus's QBs have fallen far short of their potential while every one of Clemson's starters has maximized theirs. Also, Kelly Bryant was a 3*.

And Bryant didn't leave Clemson because of how he thought of life as a Clemson backup. He left Clemson because he considers himself a starter. Evidently Gus did, too, but failed to land Bryant's services.  

You can argue exactly why Dabo is better at preparing QBs than Gus is, just like he is in almost every facet of his job, but it's mighty hard to argue that he isn't. 

 

Edited by McLoofus
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