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Carnell Williams new RB coach


WarGolfEagle

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2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

People on here did not think T-Will had enough expeince to be a real-time coach.  Woodson, no one knew anything about, and thought it was a waste of the 13th coach rule.

I don't remember either situation that way. Could be wrong. 

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

That is why I did not mention Porter in my list.  No one really complained about him.

Just keeping the "agenda" talk (not from you) at bay. Didn't want to come across as suggesting that every hire Gus has made on offense has been bad. (But, again, Larry Porter coaches tight ends.)

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I am satisfied yes.  Burns has been outstanding in recruiting. 

He was awful to begin with. It has gotten much better. And this most recent class might finally be the one to deliver on its recruiting promise. But keep in mind that most of our most talented WRs under Kodi failed to approach expectations. Kyle Davis and NCM are the obvious ones. McClain hasn't been able to get into the rotation. Stove was doing well running sweeps before he got hurt. Hastings exceeded the production of most of the guys Kodi has signed and he's a walk-on kicker who Sean White identified and started throwing balls with over the summer. But yeah, things are looking good with Schwartz and Williams. 

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

He has also found gems in the classes as well (Seth Williams). 

Usually I associate "finding gems" with identifying under-the-radar guys who play beyond their recruiting rankings. Seth Williams was a 4* WR and a top 200 overall recruit nationally. And he's an in-state kid. Kodi definitely didn't "find" him. He was a big time recruit and he's played about like a kid with his recruiting profile should. It says a lot about what we've gotten used to that people talk about Seth Williams like he's Justyn Ross. 

10 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

His coaching is leaps and bounds over Dameyune Craig.  Under Burns, our receivers can actually catch the ball.  Ryan Davis blossomed under Burns, as did Seth Willaims. 

Most of the people on this forum say that Darius Slayton won't get drafted because he can't catch. Have any of Kodi's other guys gotten drafted?

Ryan Davis catches screen passes and then beats guys 1 on 1. That's not something that Kodi taught him.

Seth Williams, again, didn't "blossom". He's a blue chip, first year guy who is doing the same things he knew how to do when we signed him. Credit Gus for actually getting him the ball on occasion. We should have had at least a couple guys doing what Seth did every season going back to Sammie Coates. And Kodi's guys have yet to put on a performance anything like what CDC's unit did in the '14 IB. Leaps and bounds? There's no evidence that proves to me that he's coached the position better at all. 

14 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

In 2018, our NFL QB was injured all season, and had a bad O-Line until the end of the season so the constantly under/over-threw.  It is hard for a receiver to catch it when you aren't even close.  If you are going to look at 2018, look pre-injury Washington and Purdue, when Stidham was not injured. 

None of this suggests to me that all the hires that Gus has made have been great moves.

15 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I would say Chip is an upgrade to Lashlee, yes. 

Pretty sure every single one of Lashlee's offenses were better than Chip's was this past season. Thing is, Chip's a good OC until he proves otherwise. So is Lashlee. Doesn't mean either was a good hire. Gus will make a good hire when he hires one of these talented play callers and lets them call plays. But he'll never do that, so yeah, maybe Dilly was an upgrade now that we've dropped the facade. But a "great move"? I remain skeptical.

17 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I am confident Grimes can continue to coach up our guys.  As you know I am not a fan of Hand, I think he is the one who put us in this bind.  It will take time to get out of it so we can prove to recruits we can develop again.  And you also know I have been wanting Horton to step down for a while.  I have not been impressed that he has spent a good bit of time over the years looking for a HC job.

So... not great moves.

What Gus has done has built an echo chamber on offense and hired a DC who can take care of business on the other side. If he really is the play-calling savant that he was once thought to be by others and which he clearly still fancies himself, then we will be successful and he'll look like a genius. I genuinely hope that happens. 

 

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9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He was awful to begin with. It has gotten much better. And this most recent class might finally be the one to deliver on its recruiting promise. But keep in mind that most of our most talented WRs under Kodi failed to approach expectations. Kyle Davis and NCM are the obvious ones. McClain hasn't been able to get into the rotation. Stove was doing well running sweeps before he got hurt. Hastings exceeded the production of most of the guys Kodi has signed and he's a walk-on kicker who Sean White identified and started throwing balls with over the summer. But yeah, things are looking good with Schwartz and Williams.  I wouldn't say he was aweful.  Remember he was being negatively recruited against saying he didn't know what he was doing.  Then Kodi proved he could hold his own on the trail and the field.  Then people listened.  I won't get into details on each WR as I don't have too much spare time today, but I will say that maybe Kodi does a better job evaluating high school kids than DC.  Because all of Kodi's kids can actually perform, where (speculation) DC just chased kids with high star rankings without doing the legwork.  

Usually I associate "finding gems" with identifying under-the-radar guys who play beyond their recruiting rankings. Seth Williams was a 4* WR and a top 200 overall recruit nationally. And he's an in-state kid. Kodi definitely didn't "find" him. He was a big time recruit and he's played about like a kid with his recruiting profile should. It says a lot about what we've gotten used to that people talk about Seth Williams like he's Justyn Ross. Seth was a 4* correct, but not many schools chased after him for some reason.  Alabama didn't even look at him.  

Most of the people on this forum say that Darius Slayton won't get drafted because he can't catch. Have any of Kodi's other guys gotten drafted?  Kodi hasn't been around long enough for his guys to graduate or declare.  This is the first year where there is turnover to compare this.

Ryan Davis catches screen passes and then beats guys 1 on 1. That's not something that Kodi taught him.  It was Kodi that saw the potential to give him a chance.  DC only gave Davis 1 play his freshmen season, the Woody play at Texas A&M.  May go back to Kodi's ability to evaluate talent better.

Seth Williams, again, didn't "blossom". He's a blue chip, first year guy who is doing the same things he knew how to do when we signed him. Credit Gus for actually getting him the ball on occasion. We should have had at least a couple guys doing what Seth did every season going back to Sammie Coates. And Kodi's guys have yet to put on a performance anything like what CDC's unit did in the '14 IB. Leaps and bounds? There's no evidence that proves to me that he's coached the position better at all.  We will just have to agree to disagree here.

None of this suggests to me that all the hires that Gus has made have been great moves.  We will just have to agree to disagree here.

Pretty sure every single one of Lashlee's offenses were better than Chip's was this past season. Thing is, Chip's a good OC until he proves otherwise. So is Lashlee. Doesn't mean either was a good hire. Gus will make a good hire when he hires one of these talented play callers and lets them call plays. But he'll never do that, so yeah, maybe Dilly was an upgrade now that we've dropped the facade. But a "great move"? I remain skeptical.  Again last season wasn't as comparable.  You would want to compare the 2017 season rather.  

 

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10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

What Gus has done has built an echo chamber on offense and hired a DC who can take care of business on the other side. If he really is the play-calling savant that he was once thought to be by others and which he clearly still fancies himself, then we will be successful and he'll look like a genius. I genuinely hope that happens. 

 

I don't believe it will ever happen for Gus at Auburn, because of the said "echo chamber" he's chosen to surround himself with the last few coaching hires. The old Gus guru/offensive genius times have passed and the competition in this conference has don't nothing but improve, built up strength and gotten tougher to compete against.  Gus would have to literally pull a new rabbit out of this hat, and create an entirely new scheme that no one's ever seen to catch the rest of the conference off guard and set them back on their heels for AU to reach the heights of (2010/2013) again.

Thank goodness we AU fans don't expect results like '10/'13, we just want to get out of the rut (avg 4 losses every season) and have Gus turn the current trend to 10 win seasons with a competent product on the field.

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1 minute ago, keesler said:

Thank goodness we AU fans don't expect results like '10/'13, we just want to get out of the rut (avg 4 losses every season) and have Gus turn the current trend to 10 win seasons with a competent product on the field.

*love*

Exactly. This is exactly it. That word "competent" speaks volumes. Because if we entered every game with a competent plan with the talent that we consistently have available, we would never lose 4 regular season games, much less 5. We would never let any team hang 50 on us unless we went to 5 overtimes to get there. We would never put up less than 200 yards of total offense. We would never go a season with multiple games scoring less than 10 points. We have done all of these things regularly with top 10 recruiting classes. There's a wide margin between competent and what we've gotten the last 5 years. A WIDE margin. 

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6 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I will say that maybe Kodi does a better job evaluating high school kids than DC.  Because all of Kodi's kids can actually perform

2016:
Kyle Davis
Nate Craig-Myers
Marquis McClain
Elijah Stove

2017:
Noah Igbinoghene
Jatarvious Whitlow

2018:
Seth Williams
Anthony Schwartz
Matthew Hill
Shedrick Jackson

That's every WR we've signed since Kodi got here.

That 2016 class was mostly DC's guys. They certainly didn't blossom under Kodi. You can blame that on Craig, but then you'd also have to give Craig credit for Ryan Davis and Darius Slayton.

2017... hah.

Two of the four freshmen we signed in 2018 produced in the absence of any upperclassmen other than Davis and Slayton. 

Oh, and Sal and Hastings moved to WR. Sal couldn't catch at first but now he can but we still never throw to him. I'll put that one on Gus. Maybe he was a little jealous of that red zone play Chip drew up against Washington. Hastings produced more than most of Kodi's WR signees when healthy. Hopefully he can continue that. 

But yeah, fewer than half of Kodi's guys perform so far, much less all of them. I mean, two of them don't even play WR anymore. Probably not Kodi's fault but he certainly can't claim them as success stories. Nor can he claim the two guys from this most recent class who have barely played. Maybe they'll contribute.

And, of course, this disregards guys at other position that Kodi might've recruited and guys at his position that other coaches helped recruit. I don't know enough about that to speak one way or the other. 

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8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

2016:
Kyle Davis
Nate Craig-Myers
Marquis McClain
Elijah Stove

2017:
Noah Igbinoghene
Jatarvious Whitlow

2018:
Seth Williams
Anthony Schwartz
Matthew Hill
Shedrick Jackson

That's every WR we've signed since Kodi got here.

That 2016 class was mostly DC's guys. They certainly didn't blossom under Kodi. You can blame that on Craig, but then you'd also have to give Craig credit for Ryan Davis and Darius Slayton.

2017... hah.

Two of the four freshmen we signed in 2018 produced in the absence of any upperclassmen other than Davis and Slayton. 

Oh, and Sal and Hastings moved to WR. Sal couldn't catch at first but now he can but we still never throw to him. I'll put that one on Gus. Maybe he was a little jealous of that red zone play Chip drew up against Washington. Hastings produced more than most of Kodi's WR signees when healthy. Hopefully he can continue that. 

But yeah, fewer than half of Kodi's guys perform so far, much less all of them. I mean, two of them don't even play WR anymore. Probably not Kodi's fault but he certainly can't claim them as success stories. Nor can he claim the two guys from this most recent class who have barely played. Maybe they'll contribute.

And, of course, this disregards guys at other position that Kodi might've recruited and guys at his position that other coaches helped recruit. I don't know enough about that to speak one way or the other. 

So a few things.  Kodi did not sign anyone from the 2016 class.  He was brought in after.  I would say in that class Stove and Davis blossomed under Kodi.  I will give credit to DC for landing Slayton right out of UGA's backyard, but did not help him once at Auburn.  Same for Davis.  Like I said, DC didn't give Davis the light of day, Kodi did.  2017 class is a wash really, but the 2018 class everyone played as a true freshmen with the exception of Hill where there just simply was not a spot for him with how deep we were.  

Hastings originally walked on as a kicker, but again, it was Kodi who saw the potential and had him out on the field.  Sal was a rush signing I think for Gus to say he landed a TE.  Sal did reasonably well this past year so good for him.  I completely had written him off after 2017.

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6 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Like I said, DC didn't give Davis the light of day, Kodi did. 

Let me get this straight.  You think in Gus' offense, that the position coaches determine the starters and who plays and when they play?

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Good discussion with regard to WR recruiting.  One thing that has to be included here is WR recruiting goes hand in hand with QB recruiting and the “promise” AU offense will be more balanced than it has been previously under Gus.  Case in point is that the 2018 signees seemed to be influenced by the potential JS had during the 2017 season as there were more opportunities for the WRs in that season (save the LSU game).  This year it seems we are still strong in WR recruiting because of the signing of Bo Nicks, especially with GP.

This is not taking away from what talent Kodi has pulled in, just that any recruiting is based upon the scheme that is run and giving the kids the impression he is a big part of that.

This is a big year for Gus, it’s put up or shut up.  We all hope he can pull this off.

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4 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

So a few things.  Kodi did not sign anyone from the 2016 class.  He was brought in after.  I would say in that class Stove and Davis blossomed under Kodi.  I will give credit to DC for landing Slayton right out of UGA's backyard, but did not help him once at Auburn.  Same for Davis.  Like I said, DC didn't give Davis the light of day, Kodi did.  2017 class is a wash really, but the 2018 class everyone played as a true freshmen with the exception of Hill where there just simply was not a spot for him with how deep we were.  

Hastings originally walked on as a kicker, but again, it was Kodi who saw the potential and had him out on the field.  Sal was a rush signing I think for Gus to say he landed a TE.  Sal did reasonably well this past year so good for him.  I completely had written him off after 2017.

Okay, so Kodi gets credit for Slayton and R. Davis. That means he gets the blame for McClain, NCM and K. Davis. 

No, Ryan Davis didn't get any catches in 2015 when we completed just under 14 passes for just under 174 yards per game. Those completions were split almost evenly between Jeremy Johnson and Sean White. You might remember that our QB situation was a little up and down that season, too. Certainly a lot worse than Stidham's situation this past season. We also had 6 upperclassmen ahead of him as well as three pretty good pass-catching RBs in Barber, KJ and Roc. 

And it wasn't Kodi who saw the potential in Hastings. Again, that was Sean White

Sal had 12 catches this season. I guess that is "reasonably well" at Auburn. Especially since he made one of the single best and most important catches of the season in week 1. Makes sense that he'd only get targeted sparingly after that. 

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4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Okay, so Kodi gets credit for Slayton and R. Davis. That means he gets the blame for McClain, NCM and K. Davis. Kyle Davis' issues were off the field issues that no coach could help him with.  NCM, we did all we could for him.  We even had set plays for him this year to get him the ball specifically.  Not much more could be done and Seth Williams was surpassing him.  Seth may have just been the better player and I think that is true.  McClain I have no idea what is going on there.

No, Ryan Davis didn't get any catches in 2015 when we completed just under 14 passes for just under 174 yards per game. Those completions were split almost evenly between Jeremy Johnson and Sean White. You might remember that our QB situation was a little up and down that season, too. Certainly a lot worse than Stidham's situation this past season. We also had 6 upperclassmen ahead of him as well as three pretty good pass-catching RBs in Barber, KJ and Roc.  Ah, but in 2016 Davis broke out, with the same QB issues as in 2015.  And at that time Kodi took over.

And it wasn't Kodi who saw the potential in Hastings. Again, that was Sean White.  Who gave Hastings the opportunity though.  It still leads back to Kodi.

Sal had 12 catches this season. I guess that is "reasonably well" at Auburn. Especially since he made one of the single best and most important catches of the season in week 1. Makes sense that he'd only get targeted sparingly after that.  Sal is interesting.  He is essentially a WR, but is used in his targets like a TE.  I am not sure how to really describe it.

We can agree to disagree.  I am happy with how Kodi is turning out and it seems recruits are too.  If we land Pickens that will be huge.  Really what we think doesn't matter, it's the recruits and players and they love him.  So that really should end the argument there.  Besides, I think we may have gotten into the weeds on WR's/Kodi Burns when this is out RB's and Caddy.  :laugh:  I will accept responsibility on this one.  :bananadance:

 

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3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

 

Yeah. I suppose we're repeating ourselves now. I'll share equal blame for the sidetrack. For the record, I don't claim that Kodi was a "bad" hire. Just not sure yet that he was a "good" hire. 

I really hope Caddy was a good one. 

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On 1/25/2019 at 12:10 PM, McLoofus said:

Ok. 

Seems like just about any coach could get through a high school RB's front door as long as he's wearing Auburn on his chest. Can't imagine we'd have any issues with that no matter who we hired. Goodness knows we never had an issue while Horton was here. We just don't close on the big dogs and it seems that's where experience would count. 

Since the 2014 class, other than Kerryon, what every-down RB has Horton signed as a true Freshman that has panned out?

Regardless if it was lack of interest or closing or both, something had to change. We now know we won’t have a problem with interest. 

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6 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Since the 2014 class, other than Kerryon, what every-down RB has Horton signed as a true Freshman that has panned out?

I thought I was pretty clear that the issue has been closing. 

You said that Caddy will get in the front door. We've already been doing that. Horton did it. Luper did it. Gran did it. We'll really have to do some damage to the program before that stops. 

And the fact that guys like Jovon Robinson and Asa Martin didn't work out is hardly on Horton. And there are other guys who are working out who weren't top recruits. 

But I'm no Horton apologist. That's the point. If you're the RB coach for Auburn, you're getting in the front door. 

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On 1/27/2019 at 9:15 AM, AuburnNTexas said:

As to whether Auburn or Huntsville is a great place to live. It is about personal preference some people prefer a more laid back college town type atmosphere others prefer living in the suburbs with access to the things a medium sized city provides, others prefer the big city environment like Atlanta or New York.  I personally would prefer the Auburn type environment but I can understand the people who prefer living in Huntsville area or a larger city.

Now getting back to the Caddy hire as I have said before I can see why it could turn out to be good hire and I could see why it might not work. What I can't see is anybody acting like they know for sure which type of hire it is when he hasn't had a chance to do anything yet.  Let's see how he coaches RB's this spring and next year and see how he starts to develop relationships this year. If he brings in top talent next year in most cases it will be because of work Horton did or others on the staff who had developed the relationships unless he was the closer. It is the second year that you really rate a recruiter to see if the relationships bear fruit. 

I moved to huntsville reluctantly when i got married. I like it....its not too big but plenty to do. Traffic isnt horrific....with that said....if you can get out of the city lims and get in the county....that is very nice. We are moving to Hazelgreen area which is about 15 miles north of Huntaville....only a 10-15 minute drive but lot less crowded. 

On 1/27/2019 at 7:30 AM, aubearcat said:

I live with in driving distance of H’ville and enjoy going there. I think it’s great. 

This^^^^^

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3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I thought I was pretty clear that the issue has been closing. 

You said that Caddy will get in the front door. We've already been doing that. Horton did it. Luper did it. Gran did it. We'll really have to do some damage to the program before that stops. 

And the fact that guys like Jovon Robinson and Asa Martin didn't work out is hardly on Horton. And there are other guys who are working out who weren't top recruits. 

But I'm no Horton apologist. That's the point. If you're the RB coach for Auburn, you're getting in the front door. 

I suppose we would need @ellitor to confirm, but I simply do not believe Horton has physically visited with every single top RB recruit in the SE the last 5 classes. Heck I’ll even go with just our main footprint, AL, GA and FL.

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10 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

I suppose we would need @ellitor to confirm, but I simply do not believe Horton has physically visited with every single top RB recruit in the SE the last 5 classes. Heck I’ll even go with just our main footprint, AL, GA and FL.

Not sure that is an issue.   There is probably a budget of time and money for recruiting and why go out when the kid's decision is already made. Someone in the program has to determine the relative interest of the players  early in the game.   And aren't coaches assigned geographical areas and not just positions? 

Sometimes I worry that we spend too much time on "lost causes".....though most of that seemed to occur a few years ago and maybe the staff is bit more discerning about how good the prospects. are.   As noted,  an AU rep can get into the door of about any home and Caddy will sure be able to do that.. But the coaches then need to spend their time where prospects are reasonable.   Don't know who does the assessment and "targeting" for AU (Suddes?   but hope that improves.

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2 hours ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

I suppose we would need @ellitor to confirm, but I simply do not believe Horton has physically visited with every single top RB recruit in the SE the last 5 classes. Heck I’ll even go with just our main footprint, AL, GA and FL.

Virtually no on-field coach does. You only have so much time & visits allowed for such things. Position coaches usually only visit guys they or the HC have targeted for their position. Area recruiters make most if not all initial visits before recruits become targets the position coach or HC is interested in. This is where what @augolf1716 & I  talked about in the recruiting forum about Gus needing to use his support staff & analysts for scouting & research the way Bama & UGA do comes into play. We could have more info on recruits & a larger pool to choose from.

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2 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Virtually no on-field coach does. You only have so much time & visits allowed for such things. Position coaches usually only visit guys they or the HC have targeted for their position. Area recruiters make most if not all initial visits before recruits become targets the position coach or HC is interested in. This is where what @augolf1716 & I  talked about in the recruiting forum about Gus needing to use his support staff & analysts for scouting & research the way Bama & UGA do comes into play. We could have more info on recruits & a large pool to choose from.

I can tell you the bammers and UGA analysts have everything in the world known to God about a recruit and I mean everything..........names of girlfriend or girlfriends, all family member names, food they like, cars that like, movies, singers/rag artist, favorite teachers, favorite coaches on and on and on

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8 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I thought I was pretty clear that the issue has been closing. 

You said that Caddy will get in the front door. We've already been doing that. Horton did it. Luper did it. Gran did it. We'll really have to do some damage to the program before that stops. 

And the fact that guys like Jovon Robinson and Asa Martin didn't work out is hardly on Horton. And there are other guys who are working out who weren't top recruits. 

But I'm no Horton apologist. That's the point. If you're the RB coach for Auburn, you're getting in the front door

I'm beating a dead horse, but that one is on Gus, Chip and Horton! 

Amen Amen on the second point. ☺️

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17 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I thought I was pretty clear that the issue has been closing. 

You said that Caddy will get in the front door. We've already been doing that. Horton did it.

Not to cause an argument, but I think over the last few years Horton hasn't been doing it.  I think WDE alluded to it a few days ago when he said Cadillac was already visiting the top 2020 RB recruit, and said something along the lines of "Horton wouldn't do that" or something like that.  I think he said that in this thread.

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On 1/25/2019 at 11:52 AM, Scotty2Hotty said:

What RB recruit located in the Southeast is going to tell Cadillac “No thanks” on letting him in the front door?

Will he get his pick of the litter every time? No. But they will all listen.

Makes me think back to Dyer, Lattimore and Seastrunk all had AU in their Top 2. That was purely based off our position coaches’ clout at that time. It certainly wasn’t because of our HC. We only landed one of the three, but Auburn was on all of their minds.

And that’s what the name Cadillac will bring back. 

We were in on those guy because our position coaches, Luper, Trooper and Thig were elite recruiters. Gus was actually helping with Dyer and his rep as a wide open OC was a major draw to those players. Caddy can be one of those.  Gene was not a bad recruiting HC and was good around recruits. 

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2 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

We were in on those guy because our position coaches, Luper, Trooper and Thig were elite recruiters. Gus was actually helping with Dyer and his rep as a wide open OC was a major draw to those players. Caddy can be one of those.  Gene was not a bad recruiting HC and was good around recruits. 

I’ve always heard that Horton’s recruiting ability was limited to areas that he’s responsible for recruiting. You’d think Cobb County, the Tampa Bay region, NW Georgia and NE Alabama offer plenty of quality choices at RB. I think Horton is just a shell of his recruiting prime. 

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15 hours ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

I suppose we would need @ellitor to confirm, but I simply do not believe Horton has physically visited with every single top RB recruit in the SE the last 5 classes. Heck I’ll even go with just our main footprint, AL, GA and FL.

Horton had not gone and visited in home with all of the top backs in this class. Maybe he went by the school but I'm not sure he did that with all. 

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Just now, aujeff11 said:

I’ve always heard that Horton’s recruiting ability was limited to areas that he’s responsible for recruiting. You’d think Cobb County, the Tampa Bay region, NW Georgia and NE Alabama offer plenty of quality choices at RB. I think Horton is just a shell of his recruiting prime. 

This isn't true. This staff has tagged teamed most of the top prospects on the board. Not even sure that there is a "assigned" territory anymore. Per our coaches. Steele isn't really "assigned" Mobile anymore. More of a "team" approach. 

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