AU falls out of top 25.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

Harper offensively is a top PG. turnover to assist ratio, pts scored show that. All that is true but at times he dribbles to much and stops the flow of the game and he has not shown the ability to feed people Like Chuma and Wiley down low. As you saw in the Miss. State game both Harper and Brown were defensive liabilities they allowed other teams guards to penetrate and put our big people in a bad position. There is no doubt both have been clutch scores at times and have won games for us. Brown when he is hot can score with anybody but he also stops the flow with his dribbling and prevents other players from contributing at times. Harper is a great guard on fast breaks after turnovers he has the ability to score or set others up sometimes for show stopping jams.

I love both of them and am glad we have them they always give 100% effort but they do have their limitations especially when playing against bigger guards. I also put some of the blame on the others for not moving as well as they should when the guards have the ball and when they do get the ball being to tentative.  We can win with the players we have we just have to make adjustments. As soon as another teams guard gets past our guard we need to rotate our big to the guard while other big moves down forcing a cross court pass. Our big's wait until opposing guard is almost at rim and goes up for the block and then their guard passes to our big's man for a dunk. 

We need quicker rotation on defense to make up when a guard is beaten. Even doing some quick double teams on the other teams guards. There are ways to cover your limitations. Anything you do on D unless you do man to man and are just better can be countered. so you also have to change up D so they are not ready for what you are doing.

In the Miss. State game our Offense was actually pretty good. Good ball movement driving to the basket which is why we shot a high percentage and also shot a lot of free Throws. Defense is what lost that game. It was a combination of guards being beaten out front and slow rotation to help by others. Defense is not just about one on one play but is a team concept which we are not doing well at this time.

[keesler 5,924]

24 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

I think last year threw off reasonable expectations for this team.  Auburn is still very much in the building phase.  Each recruiting class is better than the last so I have to believe things will only get better.  Auburn went from a team that couldn’t get an NIT bid to a high NCAA seed.  Auburn hopeful earning around a 5 seed this season would probably match what the trajectory of this program should be.  

Last year was the perfect storm  - AU basketball was going through hell off the court with Persons termination and two more asst coaches out the damn door AND the dang FBI crap.  Plus the investigation and questioning probably every damn player on the entire team including everyone associated with Pearl & the program.  AU's internal investigation was extensive to say the least.  Bruce could push the message "No one believes in AU - you gotta prove you belong", it was the under dog mentality and it worked like a charm.  

This year AU has high expectations with the talent and potential returners.  What is Bruce motivating them with this year? 

Reality has crept in, and we are hurting with the loss of Heron he attached the basket with authority.  We miss Murray more than I ever thought, he was a rebound machine, we need that now.  People (looking at you Chuma) need to step the F up and take control.  People need to stop the sulking, loafing, and adjust their attitudes on the court when things are going bad in a game - step up and be leaders, play tough.

JMO

[AU64 10,122]

15 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Harper one of the best in country?  No I'll say one of the best in conference. I never have understood the saying when a guy is on they are great. I think when anybody is on they are great....the key is being on more than off. But it's all subjective I guess

Seems the issue at AU in many sports is the tendency for fans to over-hype our athletes...declaring them to be the best whatever or top ten or something?   ....and then when the team does not achieve the expected greatness, there are all kinds of recriminations aimed at players or coaches or maybe just at other fans who try to point out the cold hard facts.....an effort which is often not appreciated.  

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

Seems the issue at AU in many sports is the tendency for fans to over-hype our athletes...declaring them to be the best whatever or top ten or something?   ....and then when the team does not achieve the expected greatness, there are all kinds of recriminations aimed at players or coaches or maybe just at other fans who try to point out the cold hard facts.....an effort which is often not appreciated.  

I agree BUT that's mostly caused by putting too much stock in pre-season polls. I have season tickets, and am by no means a coach, but after seeing this team go thru the early season I told my wife we were going to be in trouble when SEC games started..

 

[AU64 10,122]

14 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I agree BUT that's mostly caused by putting too much stock in pre-season polls. I have season tickets, and am by no means a coach, but after seeing this team go thru the early season I told my wife we were going to be in trouble when SEC games started..

 

The players appreciate the fan support....good for you to hang in there and nothing wrong with "tempered expectations " as far as where the team might be headed in post season.   But we have three beatable teams....and at home.....you should have a good time in Auburn for the home season. 

[cole256 17,043]

23 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Seems the issue at AU in many sports is the tendency for fans to over-hype our athletes...declaring them to be the best whatever or top ten or something?   ....and then when the team does not achieve the expected greatness, there are all kinds of recriminations aimed at players or coaches or maybe just at other fans who try to point out the cold hard facts.....an effort which is often not appreciated.  

I pointed this out on the football board. We are doing it with Bo Nix, we were doing it with Seth Williams. And the rest of your post is exactly what I've been saying. Tell the truth early you're a hater and you get it from everybody. Tell it after everybody hates you then too. It's almost like you are pressed to go along with the dream or lie. 

I literally pointed out how the Chris Porter team just lost one player. Bryant Smith and they weren't close to the same...we lost two starters and first bench player....that's 50% of your main guys gone. 

[AU64 10,122]

 

7 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I literally pointed out how the Chris Porter team just lost one player. Bryant Smith and they weren't close to the same...we lost two starters and first bench player....that's 50% of your main guys gone. 

That's a reasonable view but shouldn't it be "next man up"..?   Good programs lose players every year and those in the pipeline fill the voids.    We can talk about the players rather than the coaching but then again, those players are here because the coaches recruited them, thought them capable and wanted them to be on their team.     Stat-wise (and I know you just love to talk stats ) our key players are not generally up to last season's performance. Some are shooting better but the team shooting percentages is near the bottom of the SEC and so far down the DIv 1 stats that we are on the second or third page.  

So wherever you stand on the issue, it's not axiomatic or even necessary that losing two or three key players should doom the team when you have a batch of experienced players returning.   

 

[jj3jordan 2,050]

Three words...Turn-O-Vers!!!

 

[bigbird 60,494]

 No, it shouldn't be next man up. We are just getting to a competitive level. Unless you're signing 3 or4 McDonald's all-americans each year, it takes 3-4 back to back good classes to build enough depth that a team can absorb a departure or two.  That also requires the players to develop in such a way that intersquad competition begins to drive the team to become better. Players step up or get passed over.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:11 PM, GwillMac6 said:

 

Knew it was coming but it still stings. NOW LETS GO SWEEP THIS HOME STAND!!! WAR DAMN!!

Gus like. IIWII

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

 No, it shouldn't be next man up. We are just getting to a competitive level. Unless you're signing 3 or4 McDonald's all-americans each year, it takes 3-4 back to back good classes to build enough depth that a team can absorb a departure or two.  That also requires the players to develop in such a way that intersquad competition begins to drive the team to become better. Players step up or get passed over.

So you mean we will only have good teams every 2 or 3 or 4 years?      Been getting some 4* guys for a few years now and that's probably as good as it's gonna get for AU....not likely to get any McDonalds kids on a regular basis....if at all.....nor is UT or Miss State or most of the other SEC teams we need to be competitive with.  Unfortunately, a couple of our more highly rated guys have plateaued at middle level when we need them to step up. .   

[cole256 17,043]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

So you mean we will only have good teams every 2 or 3 or 4 years?      Been getting some 4* guys for a few years now and that's probably as good as it's gonna get for AU....not likely to get any McDonalds kids on a regular basis....if at all.....nor is UT or Miss State or most of the other SEC teams we need to be competitive with.  Unfortunately, a couple of our more highly rated guys have plateaued at middle level when we need them to step up. .   

You sort of ignored me when I tried to make you see.....what 4 star players are on this team that we've been getting for a few years? And bird said we are just getting to a competitive level. No losing a star player that has been starting since he was a freshman probably wasn't going to get replaced by......anybody really yet alone a low tier player....doesn't matter how much people on this board said losing him doesn't matter or they heard this incoming guy was going to make you forget....how many that said that even play? How many if they play, played for their high school? How many of those played and started? How many of those staters went to play college? How many of those actually was the leader of a college team? So I say all that to say if you haven't felt how hard it is being a player that coaches gameplan against how can you so easily say who can carry the load and who can easily replace them? It's rare to find people that can evaluate great players. Hell I don't think I could on a professional level. I've got a pretty good record on calling college players on basketball and football....I cheated a little though most of them have been kids I personally know.

My cousin wasn't supposed to be as good as he is let the evaluators tell it......how did I know? I NEVER seen a kid work and be as disciplined with it starting at 12. Saw the little things. I knew he wouldn't get to college and make a bunch of stupid turnovers, he loves watching film. I knew he wouldn't freeze up on stage, he was one of ifnot the most popular basketball player in Huntsville because he started as a freshman and led them to a second place in state. Knew he'd be a good shooter....practices for hours to keep his form the EXACT same every shot. You have guys on here saying somebody is lazy because of rumors or somebody is great because of somebody's else opinion of a player.....

[keesler 5,924]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

So you mean we will only have good teams every 2 or 3 or 4 years?      Been getting some 4* guys for a few years now and that's probably as good as it's gonna get for AU....not likely to get any McDonalds kids on a regular basis....if at all.....nor is UT or Miss State or most of the other SEC teams we need to be competitive with.  Unfortunately, a couple of our more highly rated guys have plateaued at middle level when we need them to step up. .   

Bruce is still building this thing man, he’s workin.  This team still has a huge opportunity in front of them, I think they’ll step up and meet the challenge.

I’ll take a team that makes it to the tournament on the regular.  It’s a damn sight better than the what Bruce’s predecessors could muster while they dicked around pulling wads if $$ for years on end.

[keesler 5,924]

No offense ‘64, I’m too deep in the Makers Mark bottle tonight.  Sitting in front of the fire flipping between ball games, there are some good games tonight.

[AU64 10,122]

10 minutes ago, keesler said:

Bruce is still building this thing man, he’s workin.  This team still has a huge opportunity in front of them, I think they’ll step up and meet the challenge.

I’ll take a team that makes it to the tournament on the regular.  It’s a damn sight better than the what Bruce’s predecessors could muster while they dicked around pulling wads if $$ for years on end.

I've lost track of how many times we been to the tournament in the past 5 years. what was it?  

Meanwhile, nobody is defending the previous coaches...but being better than barbee is not much of an accomplishment....but once is a start.  Had to laugh, went to Wiki to check  AU basketball and in the history write-up of coaches the narration jumped from Ellis to Pearl.....as if nothing had happened in the years in between.    So looks like you are right....things were so bad that they have been scrubbed from the history books....well, the Wikipedia version. 

 

15 minutes ago, keesler said:

You have much more patience with that old goat than I do, he’s obtuse as hell. 

Nope ...just don't agree with him on this matter...not about being obtuse...but maybe about not seeing things the same way.    Don't see him as the basketball oracle and disagree with some of his conclusions especially the explanations about the current situation with our team.     

[AU64 10,122]

2 minutes ago, keesler said:

No offense ‘64, I’m too deep in the Makers Mark bottle tonight.  Sitting in front of the fire flipping between ball games, there are some good games tonight.

  glad you are working on some good stuff.....and hope MSU can come back against bama…. As noted elsewhere...really frosts me to see bama recruiting better than AU in basketball.    I may have under-rated AJ. though bama seems to find ways to lose games they could win.   But either way... we are facing the possibility they could beat us at least once this year.  🤮

[keesler 5,924]

Hey man, I just think what Bruce has brought to the program at this point is a good product, and he’s still building something here.  I feel like AU could go on a solid run in the positive direction, and the best is yet to come with Bruce.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

We NEED Sharife Cooper, I just hope no one is still rejecting that premise because he might be here for one year only

[cole256 17,043]

It's cool. Anybody else on here that clearly knows what they talk about they are treated as such, me? The Oracle and all of that.....it's funny though because when I come back and say see? Anger lol. 

There's nothing to dispute with lose your main guy hurts even if you didn't think he was the main guy.....rebuttal is we just reload we've been signing 4 stars for a few years.....rebuttal ok which guys are those? 

 

Silence......

[AU64 10,122]

9 hours ago, cole256 said:

It's cool. Anybody else on here that clearly knows what they talk about they are treated as such, me? The Oracle and all of that.....it's funny though because when I come back and say see? Anger lol. 

There's nothing to dispute with lose your main guy hurts even if you didn't think he was the main guy.....rebuttal is we just reload we've been signing 4 stars for a few years.....rebuttal ok which guys are those? 

 

Silence......

Okeke  and Spencer and Mitchell. 🐯

[cole256 17,043]

12 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Okeke  and Spencer and Mitchell. 🐯

Right so Okeke starts, he's the most talented player on the team, Spencer really wasn't good ever on offense but that has to be on Pearl but he does help tremendously on defense so you have depth when a Mac and Wiley were hurt.....Mitchell isn't on the team so I know you're not going to say anything about plug and chug with him. 

So let's look at your theory right? You don't agree with the Oracle but the positions that we talked about suffering losses do the guys you name play those positions? I'm going to go ahead and tell you one guy does and he's the starter and he does well in everything but nastiness which I think even you'll agree you can't really blame a coach for that. 

So when talking about a loss and we're not there yet as far as losing your main guy what do disagree with the Oracle about? Replace with who? You got samir. That's it. Other guy from Memphis has to sit out. 

It's funny you stay taking shots with the Oracle when I'm one of the few that actually will talk, explain, and debate with you.....such resentment for no reason. 

[Zeek 16,649]

I believe Bruce will get things right. Whether or not it's this year I don't know but it definitely stings. Keep pounding guys and let's turn the ship around.

[Tiger 8,818]

17 hours ago, cole256 said:

Jamison Brewer was the most gifted PG we had during this era here you're speaking on. Especially athletically

He was a hell of a talent. 6'3 or 6'4 with those handles and athletic. There's a reason he was able to leave early but he didn't stick around long enough to accomplish anything for AU, which was where my post was focusing on. Him and Daniels together could've been best back court in AU history...no disrespect to Lew Monroe lol

[gravejd 3,270]

29 minutes ago, Zeek said:

I believe Bruce will get things right. Whether or not it's this year I don't know but it definitely stings. Keep pounding guys and let's turn the ship around.

I'm still holding out hope that we can as well. I think we can play good defense with the guys we have. I hope they prove me right

[cole256 17,043]

25 minutes ago, Tiger said:

He was a hell of a talent. 6'3 or 6'4 with those handles and athletic. There's a reason he was able to leave early but he didn't stick around long enough to accomplish anything for AU, which was where my post was focusing on. Him and Daniels together could've been best back court in AU history...no disrespect to Lew Monroe lol

He was from ATL and that Auburn was too close for him IMO. He wasn't a good student. He played in the NBA for a few years but yeah if he'd stayed he'd been awesome here. He'd be perfect for this team