Chuck Person Saga (Threads Merged)

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

Just hire the guys UNC used to defend their accusations. I know it’s a different situation, but hey worth a shot. 

[Mikey 16,546]

11 hours ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

What in the world would it be, then??? They've got nothing on us other than this Person thing, and that has already been decided on!! Players have served suspensions, and the coach has been fired. What more could we possibly be punished with?

There ya' go! With all that water under the bridge, why are we still getting a letter? I don't buy "mere formality". They don't send that Notice of Allegations for a mere formality. Getting that letter is a big deal. It's an important thing that will have to be dealt with. My guess is they are going after Coach Pearl under the previously mentioned "Head Coach Responsibility" clause.

Don't try to rationalize how we will get a fair treatment from the NCAA and we've already paid the penalty and blah-blah.. Had we already paid the penalty they want us to pay there would be no letter coming our way. If they were fair UAT would already have a letter for the Sexton situation.

I'll be delighted but shocked if this doesn't turn into something that eventually wrecks the progress our basketball program has made in recent years.

[Tiger 8,817]

He can visit in a few years

He's lucky we kept his jersey up there considering he, himself, put the program in the NCAA and freaking FBI's crosshairs. 

Do I understand why he did it? Hell yeah I do! Doesn't make me want to forgive him any quicker. I feel sympathetic towards him and I cannot imagine the pressure he was under owing almost double his salary to his ex-wife but damn he put a dark cloud over the literal best stretch in Auburn hoops history and jeopardized Bruce's coaching career at the same time. 

It sounds bad, cold hearted, and selfish on my end, trust me I know, but you don't get to just pull the BS he did and just walk back through the door like nothing happened after AU threw him a bone in a time of need and fast tracked him to getting a degree so he could land the job at AU. 

You guys know how pissed Bruce gets in-game. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the exact moment Bruce found out about Person's actions. I can only imagine the F bombs flying and the limbs flailing, particularly because Person was strongly suggested to Bruce for an asst coaching position. 

[AU64 10,122]

Finally got around to reading the Auburn response to the court....on al.com..the victim impact statement.     Basic attitude was "send him to jail and throw away the key" as the school almost itemized the cost of his transgressions.....probably in the millions of dollars for legal fees, investigations and the general damage to the school's reputation.  

If you have not read the piece,  I encourage you to read it all...past the part about the possibility of the NCAA letter...but the details of the damage.    The story made me much less sympathetic to his situation.     It was a betrayal by CP of people all round him who trusted him and all of whom are paying a big price for their trust. The NCAA is probably not through with AU and there is no way for AU to recover the money it has lost or the damage to the school's reputation as described in the Auburn letter. People won't be able to read about Auburn basketball for quite a while without coming across a reference to the Chuck Person affair.  

I know Sonny Smith liked CP but looking back, I think it was short sighted of him to publicly defend him after the damage to so many people. . 

https://www.al.com/auburn/2019/07/auburn-expects-basketball-program-to-receive-ncaa-penalties.html

[kevon67 2,368]

On 7/7/2019 at 10:49 AM, fredst said:

Get married. If you find the right one, like I was fortunate to, it will be the greatest thing in your life. Just don’t get divorced, lol.

Which translates to being her YES man😂.......tough when I was younger but I learned it was the best way to a full belly and a good nights sleep.

[AU64 10,122]

Naïve comments above....when a school hires a coach that has a bad NCAA history the school is just asking to be put under the microscope.   Sure AU had the right to hire him.....but who with any real world experience would think there would be no "cost". ?    It might not be fair....but it danged sure is the way of the world.

[augolf1716 21,096]

2 hours ago, kevon67 said:

Which translates to being her YES man😂.......tough when I was younger but I learned it was the best way to a full belly and a good nights sleep.

Not yes man.......its YES DEAR 

[JFDTiger80 790]

He wrote an article that implies AU in serious NCAA trouble in Basketball. He says Pat Forde says AU is going to be one of 5 teams receiving a NCAA official inquiry letter this summer. Ya'll can look up the article, it is dated today. Any truth to this? I cannot download it on this Google Chrome computer for some reason. Discussion please. 

[gravejd 3,267]

I would say it’s likely we’ll get a letter of inquiry since we got a letter of allegations. How serious it is and such is anybodies guess. I would think the penalties we’ve already had would cover the known infractions. But one can never tell with the ncaa. 

It’s been discussed a good bit in the person thread

[CAReeves2010 627]

12 hours ago, JFDTiger80 said:

He wrote an article that implies AU in serious NCAA trouble in Basketball. He says Pat Forde says AU is going to be one of 5 teams receiving a NCAA official inquiry letter this summer. Ya'll can look up the article, it is dated today. Any truth to this? I cannot download it on this Google Chrome computer for some reason. Discussion please. 

I think Thamel wrote an article a month or so ago about who he believed would be hit with major sanctions. Seeing that AU was compliant and it was limited to one coach and 2 players only receiving $2k total maybe it'll be a lesser failure to monitor charge

[AUApostle 7,648]

Anyone think the Leath severance package is related to an impending basketball letter of allegations?  He wanted to fire Pearl, we obviously didn't - thinking we could fight our way out of the mess with Pearl.  Is the huge buy-out hush money so that Leath won't talk to the NCAA...heck of a black-mail job? 

[mustache eagle 2,388]

I wouldn’t think so.  I would have assumed a college pres nowadays would have a pretty healthy severance/sunset/golden parachute package out the door.  But with our BOT, nothing would surprise me ...The story of those morons giving gus the $49 mil extension and the way it went down ...

[gr82be 14,401]

1 hour ago, AUDevil said:

Anyone think the Leath severance package is related to an impending basketball letter of allegations?  He wanted to fire Pearl, we obviously didn't - thinking we could fight our way out of the mess with Pearl.  Is the huge buy-out hush money so that Leath won't talk to the NCAA...heck of a black-mail job? 

Hush money, as it is, has been paid to those leaving Auburn before. I'm guessing that someone isn't completely buying into portions of Auburn Creed or else it wouldn't be necessary. 

The Auburn Creed

I believe that this is a practical world and that I can count only on what I earn. Therefore, I believe in work, hard work.

I believe in education, which gives me the knowledge to work wisely and trains my mind and my hands to work skillfully.

I believe in honesty and truthfulness, without which I cannot win the respect and confidence of my fellow men.

I believe in a sound mind, in a sound body and a spirit that is not afraid, and in clean sports that develop these qualities.

I believe in obedience to law because it protects the rights of all.

I believe in the human touch, which cultivates sympathy with my fellow men and mutual helpfulness and brings happiness for all.

I believe in my Country, because it is a land of freedom and because it is my own home, and that I can best serve that country by "doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with my God."

And because Auburn men and women believe in these things, I believe in Auburn and love it.

-George Petrie (1943)

[kevon67 2,368]

On 7/19/2019 at 7:27 AM, AU64 said:

Naïve comments above....when a school hires a coach that has a bad NCAA history the school is just asking to be put under the microscope.   Sure AU had the right to hire him.....but who with any real world experience would think there would be no "cost". ?    It might not be fair....but it danged sure is the way of the world.

It's not fair but it does seem to be the way of the world........Parents always told me to walk a straight line people always remember the worst things you do first.

[Woodstock Tiger 131]

12 hours ago, AUDevil said:

Anyone think the Leath severance package is related to an impending basketball letter of allegations?  He wanted to fire Pearl, we obviously didn't - thinking we could fight our way out of the mess with Pearl.  Is the huge buy-out hush money so that Leath won't talk to the NCAA...heck of a black-mail job? 

They paid him 3 times the value he was owed.  It’s insane to see the money these guys are willing to throw around. And none of the trustees seem to consider what it might look like agreeing to offer him that kinda $ at this particular moment in time to leave? Heck, if I’m Leath, I grab that money and skip away from AU while whistling zippity doo dah!  The bammers are having a field day with it - not that it really matters but perhaps some explanation for such an exhorbitant payout could be helpful.

[AUght2win 6,816]

Wishful thinking, maybe, but on my part I think we'll be okay. This is an unprecedented time for the NCAA where lots of people are calling for amateur pay and the organization's dissolution. With that in mind, the NCAA is very timid to punish big time brands. They don't want to upset the few supporters they have left. Certain schools have huge fanbases and huge sway. Not to mention how powerful conferences have grown on their own. 

I don't think Auburn gets hit hard because it's a big brand, the SEC, and Pearl is good for NCAA basketball/ratings. It's the same reason Bama has gotten away with incredibly out-in-the-open cheating since Saban arrived (see Tom Albetar, Sticks-n-Stuff, an assistant admitting to paying a player). UNC got away with a ton too. And no major brand school has gotten hit with a severe punishment in years (the exception being Penn State, who was hit for the SOLE purpose of PR/calming people). 

I think we get a slap on the wrist. I hope so, anyway. 

[Woodstock Tiger 131]

9 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Wishful thinking, maybe, but on my part I think we'll be okay. This is an unprecedented time for the NCAA where lots of people are calling for amateur pay and the organization's dissolution. With that in mind, the NCAA is very timid to punish big time brands. They don't want to upset the few supporters they have left. Certain schools have huge fanbases and huge sway. Not to mention how powerful conferences have grown on their own. 

I don't think Auburn gets hit hard because it's a big brand, the SEC, and Pearl is good for NCAA basketball/ratings. It's the same reason Bama has gotten away with incredibly out-in-the-open cheating since Saban arrived (see Tom Albetar, Sticks-n-Stuff, an assistant admitting to paying a player). UNC got away with a ton too. And no major brand school has gotten hit with a severe punishment in years (the exception being Penn State, who was hit for the SOLE purpose of PR/calming people). 

I think we get a slap on the wrist. I hope so, anyway. 

I hope you're right.  AU already took it on the chin once already with 2 players sitting and it undoubtedly impacted the tourney performance last season given the lack of depth after McLemore went down.  It would seem beyond unfair for the NCAA to be taking yet another run at AU so soon when there are other schools that have such egregious things that are known to have happened or at least need to be investigated given what was revealed in the federal trials.  (Sexton  allegedly receiving $5k and $1500/month,  $23k in travel expenses by his parents allegedly paid for, his brother getting a job....how does the NCAA just ignore such allegations and continue to come after AU/Pearl yet again?) 

I realize the NCAA can do whatever they wish and the whole idea of "fairness" is a pipe dream, but there has to be some level of reasonableness applied with regard to punishing Pearl for Person's actions. What the heck more could Pearl have done to ensure his coaches are playing by the rules?  Hire a private detective to track their every move?  Nothing was revealed in those trials tying Pearl to anything.  They had something like 16 hours of recordings on Person's phone calls, dinner conversations, emails, etc., and not ONE mention of Pearl in any of them.  Those conversations revealed he was actively trying to hide stuff from Pearl. 

I realize the 11.1.1 by-law has language that states he's responsible for the actions of Asst Coaches, but it also has language that, if applied, provides some reasonable approach to punishment.  (What did he do to actively promote abiding by the rules, what procedures does AU have in place,  evidence of continuing education for coaches, etc.)  It will be interesting to see how it plays out - I figure even if they take the unreasonable approach and just say "it happened under your watch", AU loses a scholly and they have to abandon wins when this was going on.  Much else would have to be viewed as overkill given the lack of pursuit of any of the other schools with basketball issues.    

[steeleagle 2,945]

On 7/22/2019 at 6:41 AM, Woodstock Tiger said:

I hope you're right.  AU already took it on the chin once already with 2 players sitting and it undoubtedly impacted the tourney performance last season given the lack of depth after McLemore went down.  It would seem beyond unfair for the NCAA to be taking yet another run at AU so soon when there are other schools that have such egregious things that are known to have happened or at least need to be investigated given what was revealed in the federal trials.  (Sexton  allegedly receiving $5k and $1500/month,  $23k in travel expenses by his parents allegedly paid for, his brother getting a job....how does the NCAA just ignore such allegations and continue to come after AU/Pearl yet again?) 

I realize the NCAA can do whatever they wish and the whole idea of "fairness" is a pipe dream, but there has to be some level of reasonableness applied with regard to punishing Pearl for Person's actions. What the heck more could Pearl have done to ensure his coaches are playing by the rules?  Hire a private detective to track their every move?  Nothing was revealed in those trials tying Pearl to anything.  They had something like 16 hours of recordings on Person's phone calls, dinner conversations, emails, etc., and not ONE mention of Pearl in any of them.  Those conversations revealed he was actively trying to hide stuff from Pearl. 

I realize the 11.1.1 by-law has language that states he's responsible for the actions of Asst Coaches, but it also has language that, if applied, provides some reasonable approach to punishment.  (What did he do to actively promote abiding by the rules, what procedures does AU have in place,  evidence of continuing education for coaches, etc.)  It will be interesting to see how it plays out - I figure even if they take the unreasonable approach and just say "it happened under your watch", AU loses a scholly and they have to abandon wins when this was going on.  Much else would have to be viewed as overkill given the lack of pursuit of any of the other schools with basketball issues.    

Its interesting that Auburn stated in detail in its recent report to the Federal court, the detailed steps it took to make sure Chuck Person knew the rules, was consistently educated and refreshed on NCAA rules, and signed each year the statement from him of no violations of NCAA rules.  So what could Pearl have done to not put HIS job in the crosshairs of the NCAA, other than what the University implemented. Nothing to me...so the NCAA, unless there is proof of Pearl's knowledge of Person's wrong doing, needs to leave him alone. IMO. (and I don't care what those say about his 'Past'. )

Here is that excerpt:

In conjunction with his hiring and those responsibilities, Auburn provided Person with initial and ongoing training and education on NCAA legislation. These regular compliance efforts included specific instruction on the prohibition against providing prospects and student-athletes and/or their families inducement ors extra benefits in any form (e.g., cash, hotels, etc.). Person was an active participant in compliance meetings and routinely reached out to institutional personnel for clearance or guidance on NCAA issues. In his more than two years of employment with Auburn (and apart from his misconduct here), Person had not been involved in any type of actual or alleged major NCAA violation.1 Auburn required Person to annually certify – and he did – his compliance with NCAA rules and Auburn’s expectations, including affirmative confirmation that he:

• Had not withheld from the NCAA or the institution information relevant to any NCAA violation;

• Had not knowingly been involved in offering or providing any student-athlete (or prospect) an extra benefit (or improper inducement);

• Had not received benefits for facilitating or arranging a meeting between a studentathlete and an agent, financial advisor or representative of an agent or financial advisor; and

• Had reported any potential violations or knowledge of NCAA violations.

 

[Woodstock Tiger 131]

4 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Its interesting that Auburn stated in detail in its recent report to the Federal court, the detailed steps it took to make sure Chuck Person knew the rules, was consistently educated and refreshed on NCAA rules, and signed each year the statement from him of no violations of NCAA rules.  So what could Pearl have done to not put HIS job in the crosshairs of the NCAA, other than what the University implemented. Nothing to me...so the NCAA, unless there is proof of Pearl's knowledge of Person's wrong doing, needs to leave him alone. IMO. (and I don't care what those say about his 'Past'. )

Here is that excerpt:

In conjunction with his hiring and those responsibilities, Auburn provided Person with initial and ongoing training and education on NCAA legislation. These regular compliance efforts included specific instruction on the prohibition against providing prospects and student-athletes and/or their families inducement ors extra benefits in any form (e.g., cash, hotels, etc.). Person was an active participant in compliance meetings and routinely reached out to institutional personnel for clearance or guidance on NCAA issues. In his more than two years of employment with Auburn (and apart from his misconduct here), Person had not been involved in any type of actual or alleged major NCAA violation.1 Auburn required Person to annually certify – and he did – his compliance with NCAA rules and Auburn’s expectations, including affirmative confirmation that he:

• Had not withheld from the NCAA or the institution information relevant to any NCAA violation;

• Had not knowingly been involved in offering or providing any student-athlete (or prospect) an extra benefit (or improper inducement);

• Had not received benefits for facilitating or arranging a meeting between a studentathlete and an agent, financial advisor or representative of an agent or financial advisor; and

• Had reported any potential violations or knowledge of NCAA violations.

 

Agreed.  AU is doing what they can there to distance themself from Chuck for sure and making it is known up front they took pro-active steps to ensure compliance.  It’s an outline of their defense so if the NCAA decides to make another run at AU, they’re not doing so blindly and wondering what happened at AU - the entire story is basically told in 4-5 pages.  

The by-law 11.1.1 allows AU/Pearl to explain the steps they took to ensure their efforts in staff compliance were reasonable.  That statute isn’t just a “This happened under Pearl’s watch so we are gonna pound him”.  At some point there has to be some common sense applied.  There was No mention of Pearl in any of the recorded conversations in the FBI investigation into Person, and Person tried to ensure the parents/players understood to tell NO one of the $ and he hid his activity.  Zero proof of Pearl being involved whatsoever.

I realize this is the NCAA, though, so fairness isn’t guaranteed.  But man, I may lose my mind if AU gets hit again while Bama/LSU/AZ remain unscathed. 

[Tiger 8,817]

11 hours ago, Woodstock Tiger said:

 At some point there has to be some common sense applied.

That's the part that has some people worried. NCAA and common sense have never paired well.

[AU64 10,122]

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-punishes-depaul-basketball-recruiting-022054616.html

[kevon67 2,368]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-punishes-depaul-basketball-recruiting-022054616.html

Just got a real bad feeling...........Get the feeling its going to be bad news for AU Basketball......I hope I am wrong..........DePauls situation is a bit different.......Get the feeling the NCAA is going to try and make an example of AU.......I really hope I am wrong.

[TexasTiger 12,800]

46 minutes ago, kevon67 said:

Just got a real bad feeling...........Get the feeling its going to be bad news for AU Basketball......I hope I am wrong..........DePauls situation is a bit different.......Get the feeling the NCAA is going to try and make an example of AU.......I really hope I am wrong.

It’s a lot different. It’s the typical turn the blind eye to benefit the program case. 

[AU64 10,122]

9 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s a lot different. It’s the typical turn the blind eye to benefit the program case. 

Well that's the charge but the defense was that the perp attended meetings, talked about the rules and said all the right things when asked about his work. ….and that defense was not accepted.    Not saying they are the same thing....but just an indication of "responsibility" of the HC as seen by the NCAA. ...

[Mikey 16,546]

10 hours ago, kevon67 said:

Just got a real bad feeling...........Get the feeling its going to be bad news for AU Basketball......I hope I am wrong..........DePauls situation is a bit different.......Get the feeling the NCAA is going to try and make an example of AU.......I really hope I am wrong.

I don't want to "like" this post, but I do share your concern. I think they will do as much to AU as possible. Cooperation with the NCAA is seldom rewarded anyway, so our early cooperation will count for nothing.