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StatTiger

More playmakers than 2010?

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Yes Stat - I think we have more playmakers than we have had in a long time. 

The problem this year is the schedule. Brutal does not begin to describe how hard it is. We may have the best D and O in a long time, and we still may lose 4 or 5 games. Clemson, OK, and Ohio State would struggle with our schedule. 

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54 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

It still didn't make sense to me as Loof was not one of those guys participating.  But yes I did jab at those doing it.  Every single football thread is being taken over by that.  It becomes repetitive. 

I'm going to interject myself into your discussion for a minute.

1st - We love you abw0004, you bring a lighthearted, often comical relief to the board.  You do everything in your power to lighten the mood around here and I appreciate you.  

2nd - We're all AU fans down to our core and we want AU to be among the best football programs in this conference.  We want desperately to brag about AU football, poke our chests out and "talk shop" with the fans of our main rivals we want to be proud of our team and the coaches behind the team.

3rd - The repetitive nature this board takes stems from the repetitive W-L record over the last 5 seasons.  Fans have had enough of this repetitive 4-5 losses a year. They are tired of the same game plans, roster management, play selections, and deficiencies we see on the field.  They are also weary of the non-stop excuses for why this staff can't seem to get over the hump and shave off a couple of those annual losses by now.  (My God, if this staff could manage even back to back 10 win seasons, the board would improve.)

Change the narrative Gus  - Give us something to talk about Coaches >>>>> Give us something to BRAG about!

 

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5 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm going to interject myself into your discussion for a minute.  

1st - We love you abw0004, you bring a lighthearted, often comical relief to the board.  You do everything in your power to lighten the mood around here and I appreciate you.  That is really kind of you to say keesler, thank you.  Made my day.

2nd - We're all AU fans down to our core and we want AU to be among the best football programs in this conference.  We want desperately to brag about AU football, poke our chests out and "talk shop" with the fans of our main rivals we want to be proud of our team and the coaches behind the team.  Completely understand.

3rd - The repetitive nature this board takes stems from the repetitive W-L record over the last 5 seasons.  Fans have had enough of this repetitive 4-5 losses a year. They are tired of the same game plans, roster management, play selections, and deficiencies we see on the field.  They are also weary of the non-stop excuses for why this staff can't seem to get over the hump and shave off a couple of those annual losses by now.  (My God, if this staff could manage even back to back 10 win seasons, the board would improve.)  Completely understand.

Change the narrative Gus  - Give us something to talk about Coaches >>>>> Give us something to BRAG about!  That is sort of the narrative I was getting at, and I referenced it to DAG above the the NBA free-agency narrative.  Once we have said our peace and our minds, let's just have the season play out.  No need to say it again, and again.  The season hasn't even started yet.  That's the reason why I haven't really argued on the football forum.  I want our team to do the talking for me come gametime!

Very good post, interject more often!

 

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3 minutes ago, keesler said:

3rd - The repetitive nature this board takes stems from the repetitive W-L record over the last 5 seasons.  Fans have had enough of this repetitive 4-5 losses a year. They are tired of the same game plans, roster management, play selections, and deficiencies we see on the field.  They are also weary of the non-stop excuses for why this staff can't seem to get over the hump and shave off a couple of those annual losses by now.  (My God, if this staff could manage even back to back 10 win seasons, the board would improve.)

Change the narrative Gus  - Give us something to talk about Coaches >>>>> Give us something to BRAG about!

This thread in particular is an interesting test case, because it's hard not to look at the playmakers all over this offense and not wonder why the offense hasn't been more consistently productive. Given that our head coach is an offensive guy and has been responsible for a significant percentage of offensive decisions, you really don't have to travel far from the OP to Gus. 

**************

We don't have a Cam, but we are so much deeper than that 2010 offense at the skill positions. We have got to put up some points this year and we have got to be versatile enough to take what the defense is giving us. 

 

 

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Here is the way that I see this season:

uga and uat have more talent than us in just about every position and we will struggle to win those games. 

lsu has the same or slightly better players than us in several spots. The problem is that we play in BR- have not won there in almost 2 decades?

florida and Oregon will be very good - toss up games that I expect to win at least 1 of these...

Every other game we should win and is a must win on the schedule. 

That would make us 8-4 or even 9-3. 

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3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

This thread in particular is an interesting test case, because it's hard not to look at the playmakers all over this offense and not wonder why the offense hasn't been more consistently productive. Given that our head coach is an offensive guy and has been responsible for a significant percentage of offensive decisions, you really don't have to travel far from the OP to Gus. 

**************

We don't have a Cam, but we are so much deeper than that 2010 offense at the skill positions. We have got to put up some points this year and we have got to be versatile enough to take what the defense is giving us. 

 

 

Maybe at receiver, though we had Darvin Adams (who was good with Chris Todd at QB) and Emory Blake. We had one our best tight ends ever (Lutzy), a three headed monster at running back (Fannin and McCaleb both ran legitimate 4.30 40s) as well as Dyer (you know, BCS Championship Game MVP as a freshman and #1 or #2 rated hs running back on ever recruiting report Dyer). Its a tough argument imo to say we have more offensive talent than that 2010 team. 

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5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

quick, somebody give me an alternative to Aaron Hernandez?-

Harold Joiner

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5 hours ago, DAG said:

We are at a place in the program, where it is a show me state.

Well, there ya' have it.  DAG summed up the state of the Auburn football program perfectly.  If you want to wonder what our problem, as message board posters is, it's right there in black & white.

....we are Missouri.

Edited by AUsince72
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14 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Maybe at receiver, though we had Darvin Adams (who was good with Chris Todd at QB) and Emory Blake. We had one our best tight ends ever (Lutzy), a three headed monster at running back (Fannin and McCaleb both ran legitimate 4.30 40s) as well as Dyer (you know, BCS Championship Game MVP as a freshman and #1 or #2 rated hs running back on ever recruiting report Dyer). Its a tough argument imo to say we have more offensive talent than that 2010 team. 

You didn't focus on the word deeper enough. Go back and look at the OP.

A couple things I can't just ignore, though:

-Shivers and Schwartz are both faster than Fannin (4.37) and as fast as OMac

-Three headed monster? Lol. Nope. Dyer was the only RB with more than 100 carries. OMac got most of his the same way that Stove and hopefully Schwartz and/or Shivers are going to get a bunch this year- running sweeps. Fannin had 61 carries and almost never lined up in a true RB position. This year, though, we've got Boobee, KMart, Worm, DJ Williams and MAR. (And Malik Miller.) Fannin and Eric Smith were fantastic as HBacks, but now we've got Joiner, Shenker, JayJay Wilson and Spencer Nigh all with a very legitimate shot to contribute. 

-We won't replace Lutz, but we appear to have two legit TEs in Fromm and Deal. 

Again, depth. We haz it. Now, we might go out and completely mismanage it and some people will think once again that we just haven't recruited the "right kind of guys", but they will be wrong. We're stacked at the skill positions. We've been stacked.  

Oh, btw, let's say Cam goes down in 2010. I wonder how good all those other guys look all of a sudden. I don't think this year's team is built that way because even if we don't have a Cam, we have a Joey and a Bo. Depth. 

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4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

We won't replace Lutz, but we appear to have two legit TEs in Fromm and Deal.

They’re both TF and one is rehabbing ACL injury. Surprised you didn’t mention Sal. 

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26 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Harold Joiner

For the record, I meant another example of a non-Auburn guy who played like Hernandez but didn't murder anybody. But I'm McLovin' it if you're high on Joiner. 

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It won't matter if we have more playmakers than 2010 if our main rivals also have more playmakers than they did in 2010.  Sure it will make a difference against maybe 2/3 of our opponents but we've basically got to depend solely on Gus out coaching Saban, Smart, Fisher, Mullen, and even Orgeron which for some reason has been inexplicable. Not going to bash our coach but I am going to reiterate what we all know and have said. The recruiting losses on some we wanted and the passes on some who would have helped has taken a toll. Please tell me where it became okay to accept that another team will beat us on our home field and make us get used to it. LSU has and Georgia and Alabama have for the most part. The mindset of Auburn football has to change. Basketball and baseball have changed the mindset. The expectation is now different. Football needs to get on board. 

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4 hours ago, twilli13 said:

Maybe at receiver, though we had Darvin Adams (who was good with Chris Todd at QB) and Emory Blake. We had one our best tight ends ever (Lutzy), a three headed monster at running back (Fannin and McCaleb both ran legitimate 4.30 40s) as well as Dyer (you know, BCS Championship Game MVP as a freshman and #1 or #2 rated hs running back on ever recruiting report Dyer). Its a tough argument imo to say we have more offensive talent than that 2010 team. 

Terrell Zachery

 

Edited by Auburn Kev
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5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

You didn't focus on the word deeper enough. Go back and look at the OP.

A couple things I can't just ignore, though:

-Shivers and Schwartz are both faster than Fannin (4.37) and as fast as OMac

-Three headed monster? Lol. Nope. Dyer was the only RB with more than 100 carries. OMac got most of his the same way that Stove and hopefully Schwartz and/or Shivers are going to get a bunch this year- running sweeps. Fannin had 61 carries and almost never lined up in a true RB position. This year, though, we've got Boobee, KMart, Worm, DJ Williams and MAR. (And Malik Miller.) Fannin and Eric Smith were fantastic as HBacks, but now we've got Joiner, Shenker, JayJay Wilson and Spencer Nigh all with a very legitimate shot to contribute. 

-We won't replace Lutz, but we appear to have two legit TEs in Fromm and Deal. 

Again, depth. We haz it. Now, we might go out and completely mismanage it and some people will think once again that we just haven't recruited the "right kind of guys", but they will be wrong. We're stacked at the skill positions. We've been stacked.  

Oh, btw, let's say Cam goes down in 2010. I wonder how good all those other guys look all of a sudden. I don't think this year's team is built that way because even if we don't have a Cam, we have a Joey and a Bo. Depth. 

Let's go line by line..

- Fannin was a freaking hback, Schwartz is a receiver. Let's compare apples to apples here. 

- That non three headed monster combined for almost 2,300 rushing yards. Mccaleb didnt need 100 touches, he got over 800 by averaging like 8 yards a carry. You dont need 8 guys carrying the damn ball. 3 or 4 is plenty. Those main 4 you mentioned ( I included Schwartz for you since he gets jet sweeps) only scraped up a little over 1800 combined btw. 

- Neither Joey nor Bo haven proven anything to this point. I seem to remember this all world sure fire cant miss kid...hmm what was his name...oh yeah Jeremy Johnson. Not saying these guys will be him. But you cant say we have depth there yet when those guys have proven zilch at the college level.

Look, theres a lot of potential here. But man, 2010 was loaded. 

Edited by twilli13

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14 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Let's go line by line..

- Fannin was a freaking hback, Schwartz is a receiver. Let's compare apples to apples here. 

- That non three headed monster combined for almost 2,300 rushing yards. Mccaleb didnt need 100 touches, he got over 800 by averaging like 8 yards a carry. You dont need 8 guys carrying the damn ball. 3 or 4 is plenty. Those main 4 you mentioned ( I included Schwartz for you since he gets jet sweeps) only scraped up a little over 1800 combined btw. 

- Neither Joey nor Bo haven proven anything to this point. I seem to remember this all world sure fire cant miss kid...hmm what was his name...oh yeah Jeremy Johnson. Not saying these guys will be him. But you cant say we have depth there yet when those guys have proven zilch at the college level.

Look, theres a lot of potential here. But man, 2010 was loaded. 

Jeremy Johnson was not close to being a D/T QB and was more of a pocket passer trying to run an offense that was and is geared for a dual threat QB. We definitely have DT QBs in either Bo or Joey. I think this offense will surprise a lot of folks and will  put up some nice numbers for 2019. We are playing some tough teams. However, we will be a tough team for anyone on our schedule to face.  This gives me hope in that a 9-3 or 10-2 season is very doable.  Who knows though.  I hope that Joey will be a royal pain in the rear for all teams we will face.  If not Joey, then Bo who is an excellent option no doubt.  

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13 minutes ago, doc4aday said:

Jeremy Johnson was not close to being a D/T QB and was more of a pocket passer trying to run an offense that was and is geared for a dual threat QB. We definitely have DT QBs in either Bo or Joey. I think this offense will surprise a lot of folks and will  put up some nice numbers for 2019. We are playing some tough teams. However, we will be a tough team for anyone on our schedule to face.  This gives me hope in that a 9-3 or 10-2 season is very doable.  Who knows though.  I hope that Joey will be a royal pain in the rear for all teams we will face.  If not Joey, then Bo who is an excellent option no doubt.  

So you're referring to 'fit' with your JJ comment, a completely different discussion. Mcloofus and I were discussing talent on the offense. Fit is entirely different variable. 

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38 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Let's go line by line..

- Fannin was a freaking hback, Schwartz is a receiver. Let's compare apples to apples here. 

- That non three headed monster combined for almost 2,300 rushing yards. Mccaleb didnt need 100 touches, he got over 800 by averaging like 8 yards a carry. You dont need 8 guys carrying the damn ball. 3 or 4 is plenty. Those main 4 you mentioned ( I included Schwartz for you since he gets jet sweeps) only scraped up a little over 1800 combined btw. 

- Neither Joey nor Bo haven proven anything to this point. I seem to remember this all world sure fire cant miss kid...hmm what was his name...oh yeah Jeremy Johnson. Not saying these guys will be him. But you cant say we have depth there yet when those guys have proven zilch at the college level.

Look, theres a lot of potential here. But man, 2010 was loaded. 

Just playing Devil's advocate here but what do you think those rushing stats would look like if the o-lines were swapped?

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5 minutes ago, amsterjam said:

Just playing Devil's advocate here but what do you think those rushing stats would look like if the o-lines were swapped?

I know I'd put Dyer, Fannin, and McCaleb up with almost any trio we have ever had. I bet the stats skew even more in their favor if we exlude cupcakes or lower tier sec competition.  Oh yeah, and in 2010, Cam took away a ton of carries from those guys. 

The most talented backfield trio I think we've ever had was 2003 when we had Cadillac, Brown,  and Brandon Jacobs. Insane to think about.

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20 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

I know I'd put Dyer, Fannin, and McCaleb up with almost any trio we have ever had. I bet the stats skew even more in their favor if we exlude cupcakes or lower tier sec competition.  Oh yeah, and in 2010, Cam took away a ton of carries from those guys. 

The most talented backfield trio I think we've ever had was 2003 when we had Cadillac, Brown,  and Brandon Jacobs. Insane to think about.

Cam opened up things for OMac. That's why he had such a large ypc

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Yeah I know I'm going to catch some slack about this but I think Dyer was a little overrated. Don't get me wrong, he was a really good back but was he truly elite? He had good balance and ran with some power but seemed to get ran down from behind. I just never felt he was a danger to score from anywhere in the field like some of the other backs that have played at AU. Let's face it he didn't exactly set the world on fire when he left. Curious how things would have turned out if we could have signed Lattimore.

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28 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Cam opened up things for OMac. That's why he had such a large ypc

So you think our top 3 from last year are better than those 3? Just curious. 

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6 minutes ago, amsterjam said:

Yeah I know I'm going to catch some slack about this but I think Dyer was a little overrated. Don't get me wrong, he was a really good back but was he truly elite? He had good balance and ran with some power but seemed to get ran down from behind. I just never felt he was a danger to score from anywhere in the field like some of the other backs that have played at AU. Let's face it he didn't exactly set the world on fire when he left. Curious how things would have turned out if we could have signed Lattimore.

Dyer was a knucklehead, but was super talented. Had over 1000 his first year then I think 1200 or so playing for a crap team in 2011. I think he breaks Bo Jacksons career rushing record had he had his head on straight. And yeah, he had deficiencies, but I didnt say he was the greatest back of all time. I am comparing 2010 to last years guys. Do we have anyone proven to be as good as Dyer right now? Not so sure. 

Edited by twilli13
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12 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Dyer was a knucklehead, but was super talented. Had over 1000 his first year then I think 1200 or so playing for a crap team in 2011. I think he breaks Bo Jacksons career rushing record had he had his head on straight. And yeah, he had deficiencies, but I didnt say he was the greatest back of all time. I am comparing 2010 to last years guys. Do we have anyone proven to be as good as Dyer right now? Not so sure. 

I guess we'll see soon enough.

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1 hour ago, twilli13 said:

So you're referring to 'fit' with your JJ comment, a completely different discussion. Mcloofus and I were discussing talent on the offense. Fit is entirely different variable. 

I was referring to how much better we have been in the past with DT QBs compared to pocket passer types of QBs nothing more, nothing less!

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52 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

So you think our top 3 from last year are better than those 3? Just curious. 

if they had been used in similar fashion with similar play calling behind the same line, then possibly. Those 3 behind last year's line with the vanilla run plays and the inane amount of predictability wouldn't have fared well either. its an unfair comparison.  That said, give me Shivers over OMac and KMart over Fannin

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