5 players who gained, lost most

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

My bad I thought you were a regular on this board.

Hah! Okay then.

Huge gap between "7-10" and KJ's 24 times a game, and even the 20 times a game you subsequently mention. And that's kind of the point. Why does RB1 have to have 20 carries a game? With our available talent- and especially with an improved passing game (believe it when I see it), and especially with better runners at QB, both of which should lead to more rushing opportunities- we should have two guys between 12 and 20 carries a game. 

I see you went with the size thing, which is what I suspected. Just know that you sound a lot like folks talking about Tre Mason until about midseason 2013 and, to a lesser extent, KJ up until midseason 2017. Shivers is built very similarly to Tre, even if he doesn't have the same mass, has an even lower center of gravity (!!!), and is significantly faster. He's much more compact than KJ and again with the speed and center of gravity. I guarantee you that his body is less damage-prone than KJ's running between the tackles.

Can he break tackles and protect the ball? Does he have vision? Can he read blocks? We shall see, but his size isn't an automatic disqualifier on any of those, especially when he's going to be making contact with a lot of pop due to his speed, acceleration and compact build. 

[oracle79 3,569]

16 hours ago, Win4AU said:

 

#2 for Bammer should be in the Olympics.

[McLoofus 35,182]

29 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

#2 for Bammer should be in the Olympics.

Holy crap, good point.

[Momma Worm 2,844]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 1:17 PM, 80Tiger said:

Could be, but missing the spring does not help him do that , IMO

He wasn't there last spring either and was the most talked about during Fall camp lol... Actually nobody that was highly publicized in the Spring was used as much as discussed in the season. But hey what do I know (shrugs) 

[toddc 13,194]

2 minutes ago, Momma Worm said:

He wasn't there last spring either and was the most talked about during Fall camp lol... Actually nobody that was highly publicized in the Spring was used as much as discussed in the season. But hey what do I know (shrugs) 

If anything, running track helps him get even faster in my opinion. He is solid as a rock and will be a monster this year if you ask me (nobody has). He may have lost some weight for track, but has the summer to gain it back if the trainers want him to. I appreciate your posts @Momma Worm and praying 🙏 for your wonderful family!

[Barnacle 9,064]

14 hours ago, bigbird said:

This might be unpopular, but to me, I think Shivers should start over Whitlow. He is much more dynamic and powerful. Also, he has the attitude I want in a RB. I feel he would be the type of back that gets stronger the more you feed him. 7-10 wouldn't even begin to tap his ability.

He will get a chance to prove this I would think. Won't surprise me if he picks up more reps in a hurry. Hard to criticize much about the way he runs. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, Momma Worm said:

He wasn't there last spring either and was the most talked about during Fall camp lol... Actually nobody that was highly publicized in the Spring was used as much as discussed in the season. But hey what do I know (shrugs) 

"lol"- Momma Worm

Can't wait!

 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

The coaching staff knows why Shivers and Schwartz are not there for Spring. They are dual sport and that was a piece of their recruitment. Those who are tuned in can correct me, but I don’t expect that to negatively impact their playing time. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Holy crap, good point.

Dude turned on the jets!!!

[alexava 6,973]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Hah! Okay then.

Huge gap between "7-10" and KJ's 24 times a game, and even the 20 times a game you subsequently mention. And that's kind of the point. Why does RB1 have to have 20 carries a game? With our available talent- and especially with an improved passing game (believe it when I see it), and especially with better runners at QB, both of which should lead to more rushing opportunities- we should have two guys between 12 and 20 carries a game. 

I see you went with the size thing, which is what I suspected. Just know that you sound a lot like folks talking about Tre Mason until about midseason 2013 and, to a lesser extent, KJ up until midseason 2017. Shivers is built very similarly to Tre, even if he doesn't have the same mass, has an even lower center of gravity (!!!), and is significantly faster. He's much more compact than KJ and again with the speed and center of gravity. I guarantee you that his body is less damage-prone than KJ's running between the tackles.

Can he break tackles and protect the ball? Does he have vision? Can he read blocks? We shall see, but his size isn't an automatic disqualifier on any of those, especially when he's going to be making contact with a lot of pop due to his speed, acceleration and compact build. 

Mason is probably in my top 3 favorite. I thought he was better than Dyer as a freshman. ( I was never a big fan of Dyer) 

i am not criticizing anything about Worm. I mentioned his size and it is what it is. He’s probably 4” shorter and 20-25# lighter than Mason. He will play with that frame and most likely be the best we’ve ever seen at that size. He will probably lead the team in rushing yards in several games and I would bet the farm he will average more yards per carry than anyone in the conference. If you start trying to feed him 20-25 carries a game those numbers will not hold up. Then if, God forbid, he gets hurt the Gus haters will start the same old “ he ran him into the ground “ s***. Or start acting like we had a freshman on the sidelines that could have won the heisman but Gus wouldn’t play him. 

So I stand on my assertion that 7-10 touches is a must for him. I also said that’s not a limit . Not a range either but a minimum. With as many rbs as we have he might even lead the team in carries some games. I just don’t see 20+ on a regular basis. That’s my humble opinion. 

[alexava 6,973]

I don’t think missing spring hurts either Worm or Schwartz. They showed what they can do. Their roles are already understood. They are staying in shape. I’m all for dual sports. 

[SumterAubie 3,031]

Well neither one is going to be one step slower for missing Spring practice.

[Sizzle 3,909]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

Mason is probably in my top 3 favorite. I thought he was better than Dyer as a freshman. ( I was never a big fan of Dyer) 

i am not criticizing anything about Worm. I mentioned his size and it is what it is. He’s probably 4” shorter and 20-25# lighter than Mason. He will play with that frame and most likely be the best we’ve ever seen at that size. He will probably lead the team in rushing yards in several games and I would bet the farm he will average more yards per carry than anyone in the conference. If you start trying to feed him 20-25 carries a game those numbers will not hold up. Then if, God forbid, he gets hurt the Gus haters will start the same old “ he ran him into the ground “ s***. Or start acting like we had a freshman on the sidelines that could have won the heisman but Gus wouldn’t play him. 

So I stand on my assertion that 7-10 touches is a must for him. I also said that’s not a limit . Not a range either but a minimum. With as many rbs as we have he might even lead the team in carries some games. I just don’t see 20+ on a regular basis. That’s my humble opinion. 

If they really rotate all those RB's like they should then nobody's seeing 20 touches. Unless theres a game where the QB's only throws 5 times the whole game

[alexava 6,973]

5 minutes ago, Sizzle said:

If they really rotate all those RB's like they should then nobody's seeing 20 touches. Unless theres a game where the QB's only throws 5 times the whole game

If Boobie or DJ or the other true freshman whose name eludes me gets on a roll I could see it. But I hope we keep it spread around better than the recent past. I think we were in a bind with depth that we have crawled out of.... hopefully. 

[toddc 13,194]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

If Boobie or DJ or the other true freshman whose name eludes me gets on a roll I could see it. But I hope we keep it spread around better than the recent past. I think we were in a bind with depth that we have crawled out of.... hopefully. 

D J Williams! We’ll all know it well before long.

[alexava 6,973]

14 minutes ago, toddc said:

D J Williams! We’ll all know it well before long.

 No the other one. Not early enrolled. Mark Antony Richards. Had to look it up. 

[toddc 13,194]

43 minutes ago, alexava said:

 No the other one. Not early enrolled. Mark Antony Richards. Had to look it up. 

I would think mar or dj would try to redshirt. I’m not sure you can keep them out though with their talent! Also, Joiner in there somewhere.

[alexava 6,973]

2 minutes ago, toddc said:

I would think mar or dj would try to redshirt. I’m not sure you can keep them out though with their talent! Also, Joiner in there somewhere.

I like the depth!

[EclecticTiger 146]

On 4/17/2019 at 12:25 PM, McLoofus said:

I could more easily see Shivers taking Martin's spot. Not a shot at Martin, btw. 

I like Martin's "want to", and his stride, but he seems to go down as soon as someone makes any contact with his lower body. I imagine a bit of OMac had anyone ever touched him before he ran out of bounds. 🤺

[Eagle-1 3,821]

Count me as one who would be very happy if the Shivers kid leads all running backs in touches. One missed tackle, or bad angle, and the band will be playing. It's been quite some time since we've had a back with the combination of speed, and power this young man has.  Some may question his size, but when I look at him I see Noel Devine with a much stronger build.

[Eagle-1 3,821]

11 hours ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

The holding was called on Cannella. He chipped a guy then went to the second level and got a piece of a linebacker(?). Very tick tack call. 

Thanks for reminding me who it was called on. If that was a hold on Canella, then Alabama should probably just give up football.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

I like the depth!

TWSS

[leglessdan 1,934]

On 4/17/2019 at 7:22 PM, Win4AU said:

 

Thing of beauty...I could watch this ALL DAMN DAY. Lol

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 hours ago, alexava said:

Mason is probably in my top 3 favorite. I thought he was better than Dyer as a freshman. ( I was never a big fan of Dyer) 

i am not criticizing anything about Worm. I mentioned his size and it is what it is. He’s probably 4” shorter and 20-25# lighter than Mason. He will play with that frame and most likely be the best we’ve ever seen at that size. He will probably lead the team in rushing yards in several games and I would bet the farm he will average more yards per carry than anyone in the conference. If you start trying to feed him 20-25 carries a game those numbers will not hold up. Then if, God forbid, he gets hurt the Gus haters will start the same old “ he ran him into the ground “ s***. Or start acting like we had a freshman on the sidelines that could have won the heisman but Gus wouldn’t play him. 

So I stand on my assertion that 7-10 touches is a must for him. I also said that’s not a limit . Not a range either but a minimum. With as many rbs as we have he might even lead the team in carries some games. I just don’t see 20+ on a regular basis. That’s my humble opinion. 

Okay. The initial comment was "7-10 touches, don't want to overdo it". And you've subsequently said several times that he shouldn't carry the ball 20 (or "20-25") times a game.  So hopefully you can understand why it sounds like you're setting a limit on how many times you think Worm should be allowed to carry the ball per game.

As for his size, KJ couldn't stay healthy. Pettway couldn't stay healthy. Roc Thomas, Jovon Robinson, Mike Dyer, Mario Fannin (who wasn't even a full time RB)... In fact, Tre was smaller than all those guys except Thomas, and he carried the ball 300+ times in 2013, and he stayed healthy.

It's definitely unusual for a guy Worm's size to be a lead back, but it's hardly impossible. Dexter McCluster  carried the ball 14 times a game and added 3 catches a game in 2009. That's fantastic production. McCluster weighed 10 lbs less than Worm. 

Oh, and Worm is only giving up 1 inch to Tre. He's also only giving up 1 inch to Barry Sanders. IIRC, I believe Momma said he played at ~187 last year, so he's giving up about 15 lbs to those guys. Not insignificant, but also not 20-25. And, again, he's much faster than Tre. (The GOAT probably would've given him a good race.) 

*I'm not sure why you keep saying 20 (or more). Especially when you also keep bringing up Gus's overuse of his lead back. (Nobody else has brought that up in this thread- another example of the folks who don't want to hear the criticism quite literally inviting more of it.) You're merging the two points that you're arguing against. No back on Auburn's roster needs to carry the ball 20 times a game, and 20 is literally double the top end of what you recommended for Worm. Again, look at McCluster's production. Look at what Chubb, Michel, Holyfield, etc have been doing at uga. Look at Oklahoma most years. Look at what bama's RBs have been doing most years. Except for Ingram in 2009 (close), Richardson in 2011 (closer) and Henry in 2015 (insane), their backs haven't even approached KJ's carries in 2017, or Mason's carries in 2013, or CAP's in 2014. Most of them haven't even really approached Barber's in 2015, and that's with them averaging 14 games a season. 

Who knows, maybe Horton moving on and bringing in a guy who was part of one of the most successful time shares in SEC history (18 carries a game for Caddy, 12 for Ronnie, 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 catches per game respectively) will nudge Gus in the right direction. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 hours ago, EclecticTiger said:

I like Martin's "want to", and his stride, but he seems to go down as soon as someone makes any contact with his lower body. I imagine a bit of OMac had anyone ever touched him before he ran out of bounds. 🤺

So I go in a different direction on that, but I see why you and many others have said that, and I don't expect anyone to follow me, but...

...what I've seen a couple times from Martin is him leaning into contact at the LOS that never happens and falling forward over his own feet. And what I mostly saw from OMac was him simply just leaning too far to the side and falling down. Unusual mental + balance issues in both cases, but I don't think they had much to do with contact...

...EXCEPT I wouldn't be surprised if OMac was coached to be conservative about contact given his very slight frame combined with his extreme value as a home run threat. Without checking his film, I'm guessing Noel Devine didn't take on too many LBs or safeties, either.