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Rod and Paula Bramblett Killed in Car Accident

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:45 PM, homersapien said:

Good summation, but it begs the question of whether or not "minors" or "juveniles" should be allowed to drive at all, or at least alone.

Not everything has to be a referendum on people's rights you know. There's already laws on the books about when kids can and can't be out driving. 

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On 7/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, im4aual said:

CBD  does contain trace amounts of THC, and before you argue -  I am a pharmacist responsible for some of the drug testing for the state of Tennessee.  If you use CBD oil and are tested using the appropriate panels, you will test positive for THC.  This has been demonstrated in a number of controlled studies and I have had positive results come back where an investigation revealed the source to be CBD oil.  Please do not believe or spread the myth that CBD oil use will not show up on a drug screen, it may cost you employment. 

I will argue that your claim here is at best a poorly constructed sentence. THC and CBD are different molecules. One does not contain the other.  If your claim is that CBD oil and other such products contain trace amounts of THC, then yes, you are correct. But CBD is not THC and does not contain THC.  As I said, they are entirely different chemicals/molecules.

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4 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

I will argue that your claim here is at best a poorly constructed sentence. THC and CBD are different molecules. One does not contain the other.  If your claim is that CBD oil and other such products contain trace amounts of THC, then yes, you are correct. But CBD is not THC and does not contain THC.  As I said, they are entirely different chemicals/molecules.

@im4aual is very obviously referring to CBD products.

Odd response.

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8 hours ago, WalkingCarpet said:

Not everything has to be a referendum on people's rights you know. There's already laws on the books about when kids can and can't be out driving. 

My point is to raise the question of whether or not those laws accurately reflect the realities of when people mature. 

There is a disconnect between the legal reasoning that concludes a 16 year-old is mature enough to drive but not mature enough to be fully accountable for their criminal or negligent activity when doing so.  

Granted, not all 16 year-olds are equal, but perhaps we need a more sophisticated system - beyond taking a simple written and driving test - to determine if they are really mature enough to drive . 

Or perhaps a way to monitor their driving behavior for a few years.

Edited by homersapien
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2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Or perhaps a way to monitor their driving behavior for a few years.

Agree 110%. With 3 boys I never felt 16 was the age to hand them the keys and say they could go.   

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10 hours ago, homersapien said:

My point is to raise the question of whether or not those laws accurately reflect the realities of when people mature. 

There is a disconnect between the legal reasoning that concludes a 16 year-old is mature enough to drive but not mature enough to be fully accountable for their criminal or negligent activity when doing so.  

Granted, not all 16 year-olds are equal, but perhaps we need a more sophisticated system - beyond taking a simple written and driving test - to determine if they are really mature enough to drive . 

Or perhaps a way to monitor their driving behavior for a few years.

I’m not arguing with a need to monitor younger drivers and I sure did with my children. All parents should . My point is equating that because he is entitled to drive he should be found guilty for causing this death. That would equate if we authorize you to carry a gun and it accidentally discharged we should charge you with murder. Would that work for you ? My answer was directed that we should reflect on the individuals actions as it relates to his intent to cause harm or careless disregard for someone else’s well being (which is what the law says we should look at). As I said in this case I see neither. I see a young man who felt he was capable of the drive home but did not understand his body’s real fatigue at the time. I can guarantee you that without drugs or alcohol there have been times I was forced maybe for some reason to be out driving when I wasn’t 100%. I just didn’t realize it at the time. Fortunately I survived those occasions just like many of you have. If it was an individual that had done it over and over with a calloused disregard for others safety then yes there would be a need to bring about punishment. Just don’t see this as that type episode. JMHO

Edited by Eagle Eye 7
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The thing I wonder and maybe someone on here can enlighten me, when someone fall asleep while driving, dose your foot-leg stiffen to depress the gas pedal or just go limp and the car slow down.  I think I have to apply pressure to the pedal to accelerate?   If I was convinced he fell asleep due to being tired, then I would see it as just and accident, without more information it is impossible for me to decide what is appropriate. 

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12 minutes ago, tallgraycat said:

The thing I wonder and maybe someone on here can enlighten me, when someone fall asleep while driving, dose your foot-leg stiffen to depress the gas pedal or just go limp and the car slow down.  I think I have to apply pressure to the pedal to accelerate?   If I was convinced he fell asleep due to being tired, then I would see it as just and accident, without more information it is impossible for me to decide what is appropriate. 

I have fallen asleep at the wheel. I was a block away from my house. I remember stopping at a stop sign and then I slammed into the back of a parked car less than a block away. I accelerated very quickly and totaled both cars

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When it happened to me, I maintained speed and just drifted to the side. Thank goodness I was on a road that had the noisy bumpy things on the stripes. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, McLoofus said:

@im4aual is very obviously referring to CBD products.

Odd response.

<pedantic>

Odd response to my response.  I know what the poster I responded to was trying to say but I tend to be a bit pedantic when it comes to language.  You say "very obviously was referring to...."   I say I understand that was the intent but that some could easily misunderstand. The sentence reads "CBD  does contain trace amounts of THC, and before you argue..."  I just was (pedantically) pointing out that CBD does not contain THC just as THC does not contain CBD.  As I said, different molecules entirely.   I do however agree 100% that products like CBD oil are almost certain to contain at least trace amounts of THC. That is not in doubt.

</pedantic>

Edited by CleCoTiger

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16 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

<pedantic>

Odd response to my response.  I know what the poster I responded to was trying to say but I tend to be a bit pedantic when it comes to language.  You say "very obviously was referring to...."   I say I understand that was the intent but that some could easily misunderstand. The sentence reads "CBD  does contain trace amounts of THC, and before you argue..."  I just was (pedantically) pointing out that CBD does not contain THC just as THC does not contain CBD.  As I said, different molecules entirely.   I do however agree 100% that products like CBD oil are almost certain to contain at least trace amounts of THC. That is not in doubt.

</pedantic>

Uh, cool. Pedantry is fun. 

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1 hour ago, tallgraycat said:

The thing I wonder and maybe someone on here can enlighten me, when someone fall asleep while driving, dose your foot-leg stiffen to depress the gas pedal or just go limp and the car slow down.  I think I have to apply pressure to the pedal to accelerate?   If I was convinced he fell asleep due to being tired, then I would see it as just and accident, without more information it is impossible for me to decide what is appropriate. 

Another thought about the falling asleep thing, my youngest son tried to answer his cell phone while he was driving and had an accident. To this day, (over 12 years ago) he doesn’t remember what actually happened.  He has no memory of what happened, only by us telling him what happened does he know how the accident happened.

They know there was no phone activity, so the next logical reason is falling asleep. Whether that happened or he was awake when in happened, we may never know.

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2 hours ago, tallgraycat said:

The thing I wonder and maybe someone on here can enlighten me, when someone fall asleep while driving, dose your foot-leg stiffen to depress the gas pedal or just go limp and the car slow down.  I think I have to apply pressure to the pedal to accelerate?   If I was convinced he fell asleep due to being tired, then I would see it as just and accident, without more information it is impossible for me to decide what is appropriate. 

I have never completely went out. I have just drifted for a couple seconds many times. Very dangerously closed to conking out and doing god knows what kind of damage. Mostly in my younger drinking days. ( I still drink but in moderation never drive hammered) Now it’s my work shift and just getting home. It’s only about 30 minute drive and usually no problem. Sometimes I fight with dozing and like Bird said it gets worse the closer I get to home. If it’s cold weather I’ll roll windows down. If not I’ll stop and wet my face and head. I could never have been a truck driver. Driving tends to make me sleepy when I shouldn’t be. 

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15 hours ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

I’m not arguing with a need to monitor younger drivers and I sure did with my children. All parents should . My point is equating that because he is entitled to drive he should be found guilty for causing this death. That would equate if we authorize you to carry a gun and it accidentally discharged we should charge you with murder. Would that work for you ? My answer was directed that we should reflect on the individuals actions as it relates to his intent to cause harm or careless disregard for someone else’s well being (which is what the law says we should look at). As I said in this case I see neither. I see a young man who felt he was capable of the drive home but did not understand his body’s real fatigue at the time. I can guarantee you that without drugs or alcohol there have been times I was forced maybe for some reason to be out driving when I wasn’t 100%. I just didn’t realize it at the time. Fortunately I survived those occasions just like many of you have. If it was an individual that had done it over and over with a calloused disregard for others safety then yes there would be a need to bring about punishment. Just don’t see this as that type episode. JMHO

False comparisons.  I said nothing about trying him for anything, much less murder.   :-\

I am talking about the logical and legal disconnect with allowing youths drive alone at age 16 while simultaneously refusing to charge and try them as adults because they are only 16.

If the legal system insists on treating 16 year olds as "youthful offenders" instead of adults (which I think is appropriate), then logically, 16 year olds shouldn't be granted the full rights of an adult regarding driving privileges. 

Driving a vehicle is a serious responsibility.  To drive as an "adult" (without extraordinary controls or restrictions), one should at least be old enough to meet the legal requirements of an adult in the first place.

 

 

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First of all, I am no expert, but the following is what I have read and how I understand it all works.

CBD oil can come from two different plants - the hemp plant and its relative the cannabis or marijuana plant.  These two plants are similar with the exception that the hemp plant contains no THC, the active component that gives the high when smoked or ingested.    So CBD oil can be produced by both plants and it is possible to obtain CBD oil without THC present or with very low levels, like .3 of a percent from the cannabis plant.  The hemp plant produced CBD oil has no THC.

What shows up on a drug screen depends on what the test is trying to isolate.  If you take CBD oil from the hemp plant and the drug screen is testing for THC, the test will come back negative.  If the drug screen is testing for cannabis, the test will come back positive even though there is no THC and no way the CBD oil can produce a high.  So if you are taking CBD oil and are subject to drug testing by your employer, you better find out what they are testing for.

If the sixteen year old was tested for THC and tested positive, then he could have taken CBD oil made from the cannabis plant.  However, it is a lot more likely that at some point in the recent past he smoked marijuana.  The problem as I understand it is that there is no test available that can determine how impaired a driver actually is.  The test only shows if THC or Cannabis was used within about the last 30 days.  The driver's lawyer has already indicated that he has witnesses who were with the young man all day and will testify that he did not smoke marijuana on the Saturday of the accident.  Depending on the jury selected and the skill of his lawyer in getting the jury to understand the misconceptions about determining DUI when marijuana is concerned,  I believe the young man may not be found to be under the influence of marijuana.  If you noticed when the charges were announced, he was not charged with DUI, only two counts of Manslaughter.  I think this may be the case because it will be difficult for the State to prove he was impaired.   If this is found to truly be just a horrific accident and that there was no other contributing factor other than fatigue, I would sure hate to be on that jury to have to make a decision on guilt or innocence.  Obviously, we lost two people who are near and dear to Auburn, and because of that it is easy to want what we perceive as justice. Since his speed of about 90 MPH was likely due to him falling asleep and if this is an accident,  does fatigue rise to the level of two counts of manslaughter?  I don't know and I am glad that I am not one of the twelve people charged with deciding that issue.

JWShewmake

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On 7/4/2019 at 10:32 PM, The Freak said:

I expect the THC to be explained as CBD oil for anxiety.  The 90 mph will be harder to justify.

 

On 7/5/2019 at 6:08 AM, bigbird said:

CBD typically doesn't have THC and if it does it's usually trace metabolites

 

On 7/7/2019 at 9:39 AM, im4aual said:

CBD  does contain trace amounts of THC, and before you argue -  I am a pharmacist responsible for some of the drug testing for the state of Tennessee.  If you use CBD oil and are tested using the appropriate panels, you will test positive for THC.  This has been demonstrated in a number of controlled studies and I have had positive results come back where an investigation revealed the source to be CBD oil.  Please do not believe or spread the myth that CBD oil use will not show up on a drug screen, it may cost you employment. 

As I live in a MMJ legal state it was recommended to me (yes, by my Drs) to go that route so I'm getting a fair amount of education & experience in this subject now.

There is no blanket statement that can be made about CBD & THC.  There are many types of CBD, ranging from .003% THC (which is legal pretty much everywhere, I believe, over the counter) all the way up to CBD's that have a high level of THC, to the point where the CBD is the "minor" component.  The legal process would have to demonstrate what CBD he was using (if that were the case) and if was obtained legally, etc.  But there's plenty CBD's out there that are LOADED with THC.

Also, regarding the discussion about how THC makes one feel and if they would drive faster or slower under the influence, again, that's not black & white either.  Depending on the MANY strains, there's a lot of MJ that jacks you up like a freight train (this is the type that gets people "paranoid"), there's MJ that crashes you face-first into the couch & there are hybrids that have effects everywhere in between.  Plus, like most other things different people react differently.  I'm learning this through first hand experience.  So it's VERY possible he could have been high and going 90 (and 90 feeling like he was only going 40).  ....or he could have been doing nothing illegal except for falling asleep and losing control.  There's probably no way to truly know, especially if he doesn't remember anything, which is also highly possible.

Bottom line, I don't know the legalities and what a crime lab can prove but I'm guessing without actually having whatever he took in the car, a halfway decent attorney can fight that fairly easily.  Anyway, just thought I'd share my new knowledge.

I pray for all involved regardless.  It's sad and unfortunate.

Edited by AUsince72

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8 hours ago, McLoofus said:

When it happened to me, I maintained speed and just drifted to the side. Thank goodness I was on a road that had the noisy bumpy things on the stripes. 

 

 

Used to drive from Pascagoula,MS to Kennesaw, GA. to see my girlfriend 2001-2003...........I would usually leave last minute and get home shower, shave and straight to work.........Been so tired I would see things on side of interstate that wasnt there and I was completely sober..........Wasnt smart on my part by any means and was very fortunate.

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1 minute ago, kevon67 said:

Used to drive from Pascagoula,MS to Kennesaw, GA. to see my girlfriend 2001-2003...........I would usually leave last minute and get home shower, shave and straight to work.........Been so tired I would see things on side of interstate that wasnt there and I was completely sober..........Wasnt smart on my part by any means and was very fortunate.

I completely understand. We were driving to Alabama one night overnight to make it for something. The stripes on the road started peeling off the road and flying towards the windshield. At that point, I pulled off and told my wife it was her turn.

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57 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I completely understand. We were driving to Alabama one night overnight to make it for something. The stripes on the road started peeling off the road and flying towards the windshield. At that point, I pulled off and told my wife it was her turn.

Smart move👍

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6 hours ago, homersapien said:

False comparisons.  I said nothing about trying him for anything, much less murder.   :-\

I am talking about the logical and legal disconnect with allowing youths drive alone at age 16 while simultaneously refusing to charge and try them as adults because they are only 16.

If the legal system insists on treating 16 year olds as "youthful offenders" instead of adults (which I think is appropriate), then logically, 16 year olds shouldn't be granted the full rights of an adult regarding driving privileges. 

Driving a vehicle is a serious responsibility.  To drive as an "adult" (without extraordinary controls or restrictions), one should at least be old enough to meet the legal requirements of an adult in the first place.

 

 

Again your so deep in your high and mighty stance you can’t even read what is wrote. I’m sure your one of those perfect Christians that have never failed at anything. Probably never had any type of accident or lapse of judgement since the day you were born. People like you are why this world is so screwed up. All of us regular people ( not like you perfect people) do make mistakes on regular basis. And we accept that fact. So we usually understand and forgive others, kind of Like what Christ said to do. As for the law, motive has always been a part of it and giving first time offenders a break has also been a part of it, when no intent or malice occurred . I can tell you as a teenager I had of couple of being on the wrong side of the law and those fine police offers saw fit to give me a break. Had they not I would not have been able to serve my country as and Officer in the US Army with my Too Secrete clearance. Good day I through with your petty crap. 

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On 7/3/2019 at 7:59 AM, The Freak said:

 

 

Candy asses.

Rather be a candy ass than a crazy ass who kills people. I hate it for this young man, but he messed up big time. This isn't 'boys being boys'. This is 90 MPH, high, on an Auburn city street. Don't try and water it down. 

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On 7/4/2019 at 7:36 AM, alexava said:

I don’t know this kid from Adam. But I can’t get behind  just throwing him to the wolves because he smoked weed sometime in the past 90 days. Every bit of evidence points to him being asleep. Excessive speed is estimated and probably accurate but I don’t think it’s 100% provable. The same authorities also said he never attempted to check up. No brakes, no swerve, no gearing down just plowed into the stopped vehicle. I’ve have been high a few times in my life. I have been drunk thousands of times. Never ever could I possibly have rammed a sitting car wide open if I wasn’t asleep. ( or scrolling Facebook) authorities also eliminated the possibility of him using his phone. I think Spina nailed it. Charges will be reduced to reckless driving and plead down very soon. Kid with have to live with this forever and probably have to relocate. 

You have had some very alarming takes in this thread.

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59 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Again your so deep in your high and mighty stance you can’t even read what is wrote. I’m sure your one of those perfect Christians that have never failed at anything. Probably never had any type of accident or lapse of judgement since the day you were born. People like you are why this world is so screwed up. All of us regular people ( not like you perfect people) do make mistakes on regular basis. And we accept that fact. So we usually understand and forgive others, kind of Like what Christ said to do. As for the law, motive has always been a part of it and giving first time offenders a break has also been a part of it, when no intent or malice occurred . I can tell you as a teenager I had of couple of being on the wrong side of the law and those fine police offers saw fit to give me a break. Had they not I would not have been able to serve my country as and Officer in the US Army with my Too Secrete clearance. Good day I through with your petty crap. 

Officer or NCO? Don’t mean to offend but if you are/we’re a Commissioned Army Officer, you may want to work on your grammar and writing skills.

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