2021 5* QB Brock Vandagriff (UGA)

[GwillMac6 20,656]

37 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

My opinion. I do not think he will be a good fit in Auburn's offense. Pro style, drop back QBs do not flourish here. I think his best bet is Oklahoma. IMO

* In Malzahns offense. Get the best talent available that is interested in us. Oklahoma did that this past off season. Oklahoma has Hurts as it's QB this year. He is not exactly known as a great passer that Baker and Kyler were before him. I bet Riley makes it work and tweaks his offense to fit his strengths. Clemson went from a Pro Style guy in Boyd to a DT in Watson to another Pro Style guy in Lawrence. Why can they have both types of QBs and make it work and we cannot? Dude is one of the most talented and best QBs for the 2021 class. I really hope we get him regardless of who our coach is. Is Bo a "fit" for Malzahns offense? No. But I am really glad he chose AU and is here. I do not want to limit who we can and cannot get at any position because of "fit" especially QB.

[DAG 33,957]

23 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

There are two types of Dual Threat QB's. The traditional one everybody talks about the Cam and Marshall type who pick up a lot of yardage with their legs and the second type who while they can pick up some yardage with their legs they actually use their legs to buy time for receivers to get open then find them. Gatewood appears to be first type, Nix appears to be more of the second type but who can also pick up some yardage.  I believe Brock is also the second type.   

I believe Brock loves Auburn and that is why we are still in the running but he needs to see either Gatewood or Nix or both develop this year to move us into having a real chance. Ideally Nix devloping would show him that he could do well at Auburn in the future. Right now I think we are on the outside looking in but we have a chance to become a player depending on this years team and how the QB's develop.

I just saw some HUDL highlights of this kid and to me he doesn’t move anything like Bo Nix does. I see him more comparable to Trevor Lawrence in terms of pocket movement and gaining extra yards, but to each their own.

[DAG 33,957]

3 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

* In Malzahns offense. Get the best talent available that is interested in us. Oklahoma did that this past off season. Oklahoma has Hurts as it's QB this year. He is not exactly known as a great passer that Baker and Kyler were before him. I bet Riley makes it work and tweaks his offense to fit his strengths. Clemson went from a Pro Style guy in Boyd to a DT in Watson to another Pro Style guy in Lawrence. Why can they have both types of QBs and make it work and we cannot? Dude is one of the most talented and best QBs for the 2021 class. I really hope we get him regardless of who our coach is. Is Bo a "fit" for Malzahns offense? No. But I am really glad he chose AU and is here. I do not want to limit who we can and cannot get at any position because of "fit" especially QB.

You just answered your own question several times over. Bo seems like much more of a runner than people give him credit for. He definitely is not one you can just ignore on the QB read.

[McLoofus 35,182]

16 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Why can they have both types of QBs and make it work and we cannot?

What are "Depressing questions I ask myself every day in the fall"

[GwillMac6 20,656]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

What are "Depressing questions I ask myself every day in the fall"

:[ truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue lol

 

[ellitor 33,076]

42 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

There are two types of Dual Threat QB's. The traditional one everybody talks about the Cam and Marshall type who pick up a lot of yardage with their legs and the second type who while they can pick up some yardage with their legs they actually use their legs to buy time for receivers to get open then find them. Gatewood appears to be first type, Nix appears to be more of the second type but who can also pick up some yardage.  I believe Brock is also the second type.   

The 2nd type is not a dual QB. It's a pocket QB who can buy time. Bo is more than that. He can be apart of a game planned rush attack.

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, ellitor said:

The 2nd type is not a dual QB. It's a pocket QB who can buy time. Bo is more than that. He can be apart of a game planned rush attack.

Wow. Coming in hot off the hiatus. 

@AuburnNTexas is absolutely right that there is a grouping of QBs who are more mobile than your Bradys and Mannings but less mobile than your Cams and Nicks. Who cares if you call them "2nd type of DT" or "pocket QB who can buy time"? They're different.

Settle down with your semantic nitpicking. 

[DAG 33,957]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Wow. Coming in hot off the hiatus. 

@AuburnNTexas is absolutely right that there is a grouping of QBs who are more mobile than your Bradys and Mannings but less mobile than your Cams and Nicks. Who cares if you call them "2nd type of DT" or "pocket QB who can buy time"? They're different.

Settle down with your semantic nitpicking. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, DAG said:

Exactly what I was thinking, lol. 

[DAG 33,957]

Also , saw the #1 DT in his classwho is from Texas ..reminds me of JS in HS. Oh noooos

[bigbird 60,443]

Aaron Rodgers is considered a dual threat QB. To me, Nix is in the same mold as that type of Dual QB.

 

 

Disclaimer:

No Jeffy, I am not comparing Nix to Rodgers as players or accolades...Just in similar types of abilities and attributes compared to say a Cam Newton or Tom Brady type of QB.

[DAG 33,957]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Aaron Rodgers is considered a dual threat QB. To me, Nix is in the same mold as that type of Dual QB.

 

 

Disclaimer:

No Jeffy, I am not comparing Nix to Rodgers as players or accolades...Just in similar types of abilities and attributes compared to say a Cam Newton or Tom Brady type of QB.

If Bo Nix could be the next Baker Mayfield in terms of accuracy and escapability , that would be great. Nevertheless, this Brock kid is a great talent . I am just not holding my breathe on him right now. Maybe if we get in the playoffs I will think differently. I give him props he is being very diplomatic about it..

But let’s see here OU or Auburn? Lincoln Riley or Gus? Things can definitely change for sure.

[ellitor 33,076]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Wow. Coming in hot off the hiatus. 

@AuburnNTexas is absolutely right that there is a grouping of QBs who are more mobile than your Bradys and Mannings but less mobile than your Cams and Nicks. Who cares if you call them "2nd type of DT" or "pocket QB who can buy time"? They're different.

Settle down with your semantic nitpicking. 

I didn't attack AUT in any way. I calmly stated a different opinion. No need to read posts with piss & vinegar when it's not there, And you have known me for years & know I'm a nitpicker. No point getting upset with me or trying to get me to change at this point. To paraphrase the janitor from Rudy, "If it hasn't happened by now, it ain't gonna never happen."

I am genuinely sorry I ruffled your feathers @McLoofus. Hope I didn't do the same with @AuburnNTexas.

[bigbird 60,443]

Just a thought to stimulate some discussion...

If you look at the recruiting trend the past 2-3 years, as well as this years class (2 wr committed & 2-3 more possible/wanted), then Gus may be trying to evolve/shift back to the offenses he was more known for at Shiloh/Springdale/Arky/Tulsa/Ark St which was a more spread out and throw to open the run. Only while at AU has his offenses been so run heavy. I'm not sure if that's the case or not, but it would explain the heavy WR recruiting, the recent preference of Joker TEs over the true FB, and the direction of QBs being evaluated.

I would gladly welcome those offenses to AU. That's what we all thought we were getting in 2013. However, and I've said it before, I think that 2013, no matter how successful, hurt Gus and AU more than it helped.

[ellitor 33,076]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I think that 2013, no matter how successful, hurt Gus and AU more than it helped.

Interesting. Explain please.

[bigbird 60,443]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

If Bo Nix could be the next Baker Mayfield in terms of accuracy and escapability , that would be great. 

Uh oh...you've done it now! You compared Nix to Baker.

 

[DAG 33,957]

2 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Interesting. Explain please.

I am thinking it’s because it caused Gus to hit a plateau . That 2013 offense was crazy unique . Just the perfect storm. Once pieces left, the game changed and coaches adapted, Gus remained bullheaded and thought he could continue with this method foregoing any of the stated evidence above. It is quite mind boggling.

[Zeek 16,636]

The Georgia scavenger hunt keeps popping up in comments from recruits. We need to get creative with something too. A football facility would be so nice to have.

[auburnphan 6,050]

34 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Just a thought to stimulate some discussion...

If you look at the recruiting trend the past 2-3 years, as well as this years class (2 wr committed & 2-3 more possible/wanted), then Gus may be trying to evolve/shift back to the offenses he was more known for at Shiloh/Springdale/Arky/Tulsa/Ark St which was a more spread out and throw to open the run. Only while at AU has his offenses been so run heavy. I'm not sure if that's the case or not, but it would explain the heavy WR recruiting, the recent preference of Joker TEs over the true FB, and the direction of QBs being evaluated.

I would gladly welcome those offenses to AU. That's what we all thought we were getting in 2013. However, and I've said it before, I think that 2013, no matter how successful, hurt Gus and AU more than it helped.

I was about to say something similar.  I don’t think Gus needs a Qb type for his offense.   In a way Willis proved this as well.  Cam and Nick were the best in the country at the read option.  Their talents made the plays.  Gus thought he could just get another one of them instead of appreciating what he had and working his offense around it’s talent.  Like u said it made him go backwards with his offense.

[McLoofus 35,182]

30 minutes ago, Zeek said:

The Georgia scavenger hunt keeps popping up in comments from recruits. We need to get creative with something too. A football facility would be so nice to have.

I think I saw in one of the updates that we did one, also. 

[bigbird 60,443]

14 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Interesting. Explain please.

Gus came in right away and had tremendous success, but it was a perfect storm/lightning in a bottle situation. He had the perfect line, FB, and TB to be a strong run team. Then entered Marshall who was the most perfect ZR QB that could've been created. Combine those circumstances with the fact that defenses hadn't figured out exactly how to play/defend the ZR and we werw impossible to stop that year. IMO, because of that success, Gus thought he had the golden ticket. He finally had an offensive scheme that no one could figure out. He recruited for that scheme, he developed plays for that scheme, and became tunnel-visioned/obsessed with duplicating the 2013 result and proving to the world he belonged. In doing so, the natural progression of an offense and it's evolution was greatly affected. 

If 2013 hadn't happened, we would have looked similar to the Arky ST/Tulsa offenses, IMO. Most likely, by 2015, we would have evolved into something similar to Chad Morris' Clemson offense. However, Gus kept trying to chase the lightning he found in 2013 so he didn't tweak the the O after 2014 hoping JJ would be the next Cam. Again in the spring of 2016, instead of evolving, we bring in JF3 trying to find the next Marshall to recapture the 2013 success. It was another fail.

By this time, the 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 classes had all been dedicated to bringing in players that fit the 2013 offensive mold. Unfortunately, DCs across the sport had universally figured out how to defend the ZR (attacking the mesh and gap exchanging the OLB and DE) as well as how to take away the IZ run game preferred by "spread" teams (TITE fronts). So even when Gus wanted to "move" away from, I'm not gonna say evolve just yet, that run-heavy, IZ/ZR/QBPwr scheme he didn't have the personnel available to be successful due to the previous 4 years of recruiting. 

However, beginning with the 2017 class (Stidham, Sal, Boobee, D. Barrett, Noah, Shenker, Alaric), the 2018 class (Gatewood, Hill, Joiner, Schwartz, Williams, Shivers, Shed, and Fuqua), the 2019 (Nix, Fromm, Deal, MAR, Sheffield, J. Johnson, and Farrar), and the direction and wants of this 2020 class (Hudson, Evans, and pushing strongly for Williams, Louis, and Capers), we see a dramatic shift in direction and focus of the recruiting efforts. If 2013 hadn't happened, I think we would've shifted in this direction 4+ years ago and possibly had evolved the offense and scheme that much quicker. 

This is just my thoughts and opinions.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

* In Malzahns offense. Get the best talent available that is interested in us. Oklahoma did that this past off season. Oklahoma has Hurts as it's QB this year. He is not exactly known as a great passer that Baker and Kyler were before him. I bet Riley makes it work and tweaks his offense to fit his strengths. Clemson went from a Pro Style guy in Boyd to a DT in Watson to another Pro Style guy in Lawrence. Why can they have both types of QBs and make it work and we cannot? Dude is one of the most talented and best QBs for the 2021 class. I really hope we get him regardless of who our coach is. Is Bo a "fit" for Malzahns offense? No. But I am really glad he chose AU and is here. I do not want to limit who we can and cannot get at any position because of "fit" especially QB.

Urban Myers offense was most effective with a DT QB but yet he is/was considered a great coach right? Sometimes the offense is specific to a  type of QB, why do you think Satan at uat made the switch? Again, my opinion

[McLoofus 35,182]

22 hours ago, bigbird said:

Aaron Rodgers is considered a dual threat QB. To me, Nix is in the same mold as that type of Dual QB.

This is something I've been saying ever since we signed Sean White, and I think it might be similar to what @AuburnNTexas is saying. There is this entire middle category that is more mobile than a traditional "pro-style" "pocket-passing" statue but not nearly as mobile as the true dual threat guys. I feel like most NFL QBs will eventually fit that mold. Rodgers is at the top of that spectrum. So is Mayfield. Sean White, in my opinion, was at the bottom end, but still much more mobile than a Brady or Manning. Brees, Wentz, Winston... I'd put Stidham in that category, too. And definitely Nix. Probably most of those guys ran all over the yard in high school, and they'll do less of it in college, and even less again in the NFL (depending on the offense they're in). And none of them belongs in the Cam/Jackson/Watson category. Those are the true dual-threat guys IMO. 

Really, folks just have trouble with nuance and so we always try to fit things into limited and limiting silos to help our brains organize our thoughts. Seems like 3 silos for QBs shouldn't be too many, though. Maybe we just haven't come up with a catchy name yet. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Urban Myers offense was most effective with a DT QB but yet he is/was considered a great coach right? Sometimes the offense is specific to a  type of QB, why do you think Satan at uat made the switch? Again, my opinion

I personally won't assume that saban has permanently made the switch. Every QB on his roster not named Tagawhatever is listed as pro-style, I think.

saban did what Dabo is doing. He's just getting the best QB he can. Each one of them switched from what was working to something else that works by signing the best guy out there IMO. And Gus did the same thing twice himself. I think @bigbird could be right, though, that he stopped trying to adjust his offense to his talent and started trying to do the opposite.

Now maybe he really has decided on an identity. We can only hope. 

[DAG 33,957]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This is something I've been saying ever since we signed Sean White, and I think it might be similar to what @AuburnNTexas is saying. There is this entire middle category that is more mobile than a traditional "pro-style" "pocket-passing" statue but not nearly as mobile as the true dual threat guys. I feel like most NFL QBs will eventually fit that mold. Rodgers is at the top of that spectrum. So is Mayfield. Sean White, in my opinion, was at the bottom end, but still much more mobile than a Brady or Manning. Brees, Wentz, Winston... I'd put Stidham in that category, too. And definitely Nix. Probably most of those guys ran all over the yard in high school, and they'll do less of it in college, and even less again in the NFL (depending on the offense their in). And none of them belong in the Cam/Jackson/Watson category. Those are the true dual-threat guys IMO. 

Really, folks just have trouble with nuance and so we always try to fit things into limited and limiting silos to help our brains organize our thoughts. Seems like 3 silos for QBs shouldn't be too many, though. Maybe we just haven't come up with a catchy name yet. 

All of this can be a subjective argument. What is not subjective and indeed a fact is playmaking QBs have gotten him over the hump. JS was dang good QB prospect and even with him, with great WRs, an NFL RB and decent line, we could not get over the hump albeit close. Gus wants to run the ball consistently. In order to do that he needs a legit line which has been questionable lately, otherwise, he better pray his RBs stay healthy OR find a playmaker behind the center.