Trump’s Sinister Assault on Truth

[aubiefifty 16,761]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:21 AM, jj3jordan said:

Guess I missed ole Pete’s scathing article about other lies, important ones, not size matters.  Keep your doctor, keep your plan, videos, gun running, 

classified materials, uranium one. Did he publish an expose’ on those? Certainly he would have as much as he cares about lies and truth. You don’t think he let a few whoppers slide by based on who the author was, do you?

so do you teach your children to lying  is ok because someone else lied? maybe you need to pay attention as i have yet to see one hillary supporter and i believe they all rebuked her in the voting booth. i certainly did.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:09 AM, homersapien said:

Boy you really missed the point. We cannot function as a democracy without a general consensus on facts. 

But your approval of a POTUS who lies more than 12 times a day is noted.  MAGA!

no homie he did not miss your point he does not care. i am not sure why you waste your time with him. most of these cats. this is a discussion board for politics but when they refuse to admit the truth on just about anything it is not a discussion anymore is it?

[aubiefifty 16,761]

On 6/21/2019 at 3:42 PM, homersapien said:

Careful, your not-so-latent racism is showing.

trump started the whole birther movement. and he admitted he just made it up. a very large portion of the middle east is a complete mess from american involvement. we destroyed iraq killing hundreds of thousands of people. we had no frigging clue at the time of tribes and tribal history and made so many errors isis was actually born. what obama was doing was trying to show the mulim people we do not hate them and trying to defuse some of the hate that actually exists and most on the right want to make fun of obama for trying to push a christian value. see how that works homie? all he was doing was trying to defuse the hate hoping to ease terrorist attacks and save american lives in the process. but they do not care.someone will come in and make fun of this post and that should tell you all you need to know. if i wanted to argue politics from back in the day i can point to  ronnie raygun who supported a corrupt regime that killed priests daily. he also lied to congress about the whole salvador mess to congress as well as ollie north and others. hell even the cia got in the action and did some horrible things with drugs against their own country.

[homersapien 11,366]

21 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So you ARE a shrink?  Sorry Homer but no racism or xenophobia in me.  Also, NOT offended by your accusations. Obama garnered that praise by his own actions.  You are truly deluded if you think reading your list of Trump bashing articles would change anyone’s mind.

Then you really need to be more sensitive to the perceptions you project with your spontaneous rhetoric.

Describing Obama as a "Muslim lover" who "hates America" is not a good way to avoid the perception of being a racist xenophobe.  Not as bad as having a swastika tattoo, more like equivalent to flying a confederate battle flag on your front lawn. 

I suggest you might ask yourself:  Would you post this under your real name?

(Free advice from a non psychologist)

[homersapien 11,366]

16 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Five commentaries and or opinions to support your gibberish.  

Go down to the local coffee shop in the morning start meeting real people. 

Sorry Salty but I was sincerely trying to help you out.

You seemed totally unaware of the ironic disconnect between Dear Leader's "populism" and his actual practices reflected in policy and appointments.  (I suspect it may have something to do with your sources of news and commentary.) 

 

And this is certainly not "gibberish" .  Many responsible reporters and analysis have pointed this out - which is why I listed several articles instead of just one.  It's notably reflected in the disconnect between his "drain the swamp" populist exhortations and the number of scandals involving his appointees. 

I suggest you broaden your intellectual curiosity and explore more objective sources of news and analysis.

(And stop drinking the Kool Aid)

 

[homersapien 11,366]

4 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

trump started the whole birther movement. and he admitted he just made it up. a very large portion of the middle east is a complete mess from american involvement. we destroyed iraq killing hundreds of thousands of people. we had no frigging clue at the time of tribes and tribal history and made so many errors isis was actually born. what obama was doing was trying to show the mulim people we do not hate them and trying to defuse some of the hate that actually exists and most on the right want to make fun of obama for trying to push a christian value. see how that works homie? all he was doing was trying to defuse the hate hoping to ease terrorist attacks and save american lives in the process. but they do not care.someone will come in and make fun of this post and that should tell you all you need to know. if i wanted to argue politics from back in the day i can point to  ronnie raygun who supported a corrupt regime that killed priests daily. he also lied to congress about the whole salvador mess to congress as well as ollie north and others. hell even the cia got in the action and did some horrible things with drugs against their own country.

Hell, he hasn't yet admitted the Central Park five were innocent.

He -  and his father - have a long history of racist behavior.

[alexava 6,973]

I find it amazing that folks use about three or four different “ lies “ that Obama told that may or may not have actually been lies to justify this a**hole lying every other breath..

[jj3jordan 2,051]

12 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

trump started the whole birther movement. and he admitted he just made it up. a very large portion of the middle east is a complete mess from american involvement. we destroyed iraq killing hundreds of thousands of people. we had no frigging clue at the time of tribes and tribal history and made so many errors isis was actually born. what obama was doing was trying to show the mulim people we do not hate them and trying to defuse some of the hate that actually exists and most on the right want to make fun of obama for trying to push a christian value. see how that works homie? all he was doing was trying to defuse the hate hoping to ease terrorist attacks and save american lives in the process. but they do not care.someone will come in and make fun of this post and that should tell you all you need to know. if i wanted to argue politics from back in the day i can point to  ronnie raygun who supported a corrupt regime that killed priests daily. he also lied to congress about the whole salvador mess to congress as well as ollie north and others. hell even the cia got in the action and did some horrible things with drugs against their own country.

You do know that Hillary actually started the Birther movement , right?

[jj3jordan 2,051]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

Then you really need to be more sensitive to the perceptions you project with your spontaneous rhetoric.

Describing Obama as a "Muslim lover" who "hates America" is not a good way to avoid the perception of being a racist xenophobe.  Not as bad as having a swastika tattoo, more like equivalent to flying a confederate battle flag on your front lawn. 

I suggest you might ask yourself:  Would you post this under your real name?

(Free advice from a non psychologist)

That is my real name, at least part of it. Nobody cares who you are labeling as racist homer. I’m not wrong about my description. You just proved it. No comment on the statement just that I am a racist for saying it. What do you think Obama meant when he said he would side with the Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction? BTW no tats or confederate battle flags. As a foot note I think you and attended Irondale elementary around the same time.

[jj3jordan 2,051]

7 hours ago, alexava said:

I find it amazing that folks use about three or four different “ lies “ that Obama told that may or may not have actually been lies to justify this a**hole lying every other breath..

Size matters Alex. Keep your doctor, keep your plan, Benghazi was because of a video, health insurance premiums going down. Those are whoppers compare to the 287 times Trump allegedly lied about the crowd at inauguration.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You do know that Hillary actually started the Birther movement , right?

yes hill used it in a failed campaign against obama. trump is the one that said he put an end to it. i ampretty sure trump said he originally started it as well but i  cannot find the video and not going to spend all morning looking for it.................

[alexava 6,973]

9 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Size matters Alex. Keep your doctor, keep your plan, Benghazi was because of a video, health insurance premiums going down. Those are whoppers compare to the 287 times Trump allegedly lied about the crowd at inauguration.

Again, that’s stretched over 8 years and not all proven lies. Possibly miscalculation. Albeit some big miscalculations. Your guy lies about everything gd thing repeatedly and you seem to like it. 

[homersapien 11,366]

10 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Size matters Alex. Keep your doctor, keep your plan, Benghazi was because of a video, health insurance premiums going down. Those are whoppers compare to the 287 times Trump allegedly lied about the crowd at inauguration.

You didn't read the Atlantic article referenced in the OP did you?

This thread is not about the fact that all president's occasionally lie, misrepresent, or simply make mistakes.  It's about degree and extent. 

Trump is easily and indisputably in a class of his own, to the extent he represents a direct threat to the future of our democratic system.  To compare him to Obama - or any other prior POTUS - is to totally miss the actual point.   Trump is in a different class all together, vastly different.

[SaltyTiger 7,790]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

Sorry Salty but I was sincerely trying to help you out.

Thank you Brother Homer. Your apology is appreciated and accepted again.  

[jj3jordan 2,051]

8 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

yes hill used it in a failed campaign against obama. trump is the one that said he put an end to it. i ampretty sure trump said he originally started it as well but i  cannot find the video and not going to spend all morning looking for it.................

Don't look it up. If Trump said he started it Homie would count that as another lie.

[jj3jordan 2,051]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

You didn't read the Atlantic article referenced in the OP did you?

This thread is not about the fact that all president's occasionally lie, misrepresent, or simply make mistakes.  It's about degree and extent. 

Trump is easily and indisputably in a class of his own, to the extent he represents a direct threat to the future of our democratic system.  To compare him to Obama - or any other prior POTUS - is to totally miss the actual point.   Trump is in a different class all together, vastly different.

Oh I see sorry some lies are expected and allowed. Just to be clear then, what is the current Homie approved lie limit? Is it variable? Adjustable by age? Less lies if you are younger or older? More lies allowed if running for higher office?  Are whites allowed more lies or less?  Is this where white privilege comes in? Sorry so many unanswered questions but I am sure you can google up an article from somewhere to support your answers about how many lies are allowable and still within your personal lie limit.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Oh I see sorry some lies are expected and allowed. Just to be clear then, what is the current Homie approved lie limit? Is it variable? Adjustable by age? Less lies if you are younger or older? More lies allowed if running for higher office?  Are whites allowed more lies or less?  Is this where white privilege comes in? Sorry so many unanswered questions but I am sure you can google up an article from somewhere to support your answers about how many lies are allowable and still within your personal lie limit.

i do not critique homie like other because we are mostly on the same side.i am the one big on truth. and i even screw up but i do not lie intentionally so if you see one pleas by all means call me out. if we lie we lose honor and as crazy as i am i believe in certain values.

[jj3jordan 2,051]

5 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i do not critique homie like other because we are mostly on the same side.i am the one big on truth. and i even screw up but i do not lie intentionally so if you see one pleas by all means call me out. if we lie we lose honor and as crazy as i am i believe in certain values.

Not accusing you at all fifty. Just wondering how many Trump has to trim to get under Homie’s limit.

[homersapien 11,366]

17 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Oh I see sorry some lies are expected and allowed. Just to be clear then, what is the current Homie approved lie limit? Is it variable? Adjustable by age? Less lies if you are younger or older? More lies allowed if running for higher office?  Are whites allowed more lies or less?  Is this where white privilege comes in? Sorry so many unanswered questions but I am sure you can google up an article from somewhere to support your answers about how many lies are allowable and still within your personal lie limit.

No, that's a sophomoric distortion of my point. 

No lies should be "expected" or "allowed" and any POTUS making one should be held accountable.  But considering the history of the presidency, "no" lies is not a realistic standard for us to have.

My point is that Trump has changed the standard from a few lies (or mistakes) to a constant stream of deliberate lies, lies that are so blatant and easily disproved that no one even takes them seriously in the first place.  (Except for maybe a few mindless MAGA's who are willing to swallow anything.) 

It's the difference between a normal person - as represented by our string of presidents up unto Trump - and a pathological liar.  Constant lying is an integral part of Trump's MO, just as they are for any similar con man.

Anyone with even half a brain recognizes the difference between Trump and his predecessors in that regard.  And anyone with even half a brain understands the long term implications of such pathological lying by our leader.  There will come a time when Trump needs to be believed for the sake of the country - for example when justifying a war.  The fact he has absolutely no credibility is a threat to our country's security in those circumstances. 

 

[autigeremt 6,599]

Donald Trump is the outward expression of Washington D.C. In our face for all to see......birds of a feather. 

[jj3jordan 2,051]

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

No, that's a sophomoric distortion of my point. 

No lies should be "expected" or "allowed" and any POTUS making one should be held accountable.  But considering the history of the presidency, "no" lies is not a realistic standard for us to have.

My point is that Trump has changed the standard from a few lies (or mistakes) to a constant stream of deliberate lies, lies that are so blatant and easily disproved that no one even takes them seriously in the first place.  (Except for maybe a few mindless MAGA's who are willing to swallow anything.) 

It's the difference between a normal person - as represented by our string of presidents up unto Trump - and a pathological liar.  Constant lying is an integral part of Trump's MO, just as they are for any similar con man.

Anyone with even half a brain recognizes the difference between Trump and his predecessors in that regard.  And anyone with even half a brain understands the long term implications of such pathological lying by our leader.  There will come a time when Trump needs to be believed for the sake of the country - for example when justifying a war.  The fact he has absolutely no credibility is a threat to our country's security in those circumstances. 

 

None are acceptable. No matter who is president.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

9 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

None are acceptable. No matter who is president.

hey we certainly agree on that! as a whole our nation allows both sides to get away with too much in my opinion.

[homersapien 11,366]

10 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

None are acceptable. No matter who is president.

Actually, there are instances in history that show otherwise.

For example, Roosevelt lied his ass off about keeping the US out of WWII, even after he had essentially already involved us.

In retrospect, that's a lie that might have saved the country.

[homersapien 11,366]

And back to the quantitative argument:

From https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=B4618515B51770AB4DBC6461A5ECE586&gwt=pay

 

In his first 10 months, Trump told nearly six times as many falsehoods as Obama did during his entire presidency

[jj3jordan 2,051]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

And back to the quantitative argument:

From https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=B4618515B51770AB4DBC6461A5ECE586&gwt=pay

 

In his first 10 months, Trump told nearly six times as many falsehoods as Obama did during his entire presidency

Got it. Your limit is 1475 lies.