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so the camps are like country clubs huh?


aubiefifty

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U.S. government moves migrant children after reports of bad treatment

Updated 8:57 AM; Today 8:33 AM

The U.S. government has removed most of the children from a remote Border Patrol station in Texas following reports that more than 300 children were detained there, caring for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation.

Just 30 children remained at the station outside El Paso Monday, said Rep. Veronica Escobar after her office was briefed on the situation by an official with Customs and Border Protection.

Attorneys who visited Clint last week said older children were trying to take care of infants and toddlers, The Associated Press first reported Thursday. They described a 4-year-old with matted hair who had gone without a shower for days, and hungry, inconsolable children struggling to soothe one another. Some had been locked for three weeks inside the facility, where 15 children were sick with the flu and another 10 were in medical quarantine.

"How is it possible that you both were unaware of the inhumane conditions for children, especially tender-age children at the Clint Station?" asked Escobar in a letter sent Friday to U.S. Customs and Border Protection acting commissioner John Sanders and U.S. Border Patrol chief Carla Provost.

She asked to be informed by the end of this week what steps they're taking to end "these humanitarian abuses."

Lawmakers from both parties decried the situation last week.

Border Patrol officials have not responded to AP's questions about the conditions at the Clint facility, but in an emailed statement Monday they said: "Our short-term holding facilities were not designed to hold vulnerable populations and we urgently need additional humanitarian funding to manage this crisis."

Although it's unclear where all the children held at Clint have been moved, Escobar said some were sent to another facility on the north side of El Paso called Border Patrol Station 1. Escobar said it's a temporary site with roll-out mattresses, showers, medical facilities and air conditioning.

But Clara Long, an attorney who interviewed children at Border Patrol Station 1 last week, said conditions were not necessarily better there.

"One boy I spoke with said his family didn't get mattresses or blankets for the first two nights, and he and his mom came down with a fever," said Long, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch. "He said there were no toothbrushes, and it was very, very cold."

Vice President Mike Pence, asked about the unsafe, unsanitary conditions for the children on "Face the Nation" on Sunday, said "it's totally unacceptable," adding that he hopes Congress will allocate more resources to border security.

Long and a group of lawyers inspected the facilities because they are involved in the Flores settlement, a Clinton-era legal agreement that governs detention conditions for migrant children and families. The lawyers negotiated access to the facility with officials and say Border Patrol knew the dates of their visit three weeks in advance.

Many children interviewed had arrived alone at the U.S.-Mexico border, but some had been separated from their parents or other adult caregivers including aunts and uncles, the attorneys said.

Government rules call for children to be held by the Border Patrol in their short-term stations for no longer than 72 hours before they are transferred to the custody of Health and Human Services, which houses migrant youth in facilities around the country through its Office of Refugee Resettlement while authorities determine if they can be released to relatives or family friends.

Customs and Border Protection has referred AP's questions to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which said Monday that 249 children who had been held at Clint would be moved to the agency's network of shelters and other facilities by Tuesday.

“(Unaccompanied children) are waiting too long in CBP facilities that are not designed to care for children,” ORR spokeswoman Evelyn Stauffer said. “These children should now all be in HHS care as of Tuesday.”

By MARTHA MENDOZA and GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press

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and here is some more. now who is the cat that lied and said they had it made and were not mistreated? come on back and lets talk............

 

Fox News’ Shep Smith tore into the Trump White House on Monday night over the “horrifying” conditions being endured by migrant children apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border.

The host of “Shepard Smith Reporting” said “dirty and hungry children” were being forced to “sleep on concrete floors without blankets, toothpaste, soap or diapers.”

Vice President Mike Pence acknowledged Sunday that the conditions were “heartbreaking,” but shifted the blame to Congress and the migrants themselves. An attorney for the Justice Department argued in court last week against providing soap, toothbrushes or even beds to the youngsters.

In contrast to his network’s pro-Trump prime time hosts Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, Smith vehemently disagreed:

Soap and toothbrushes are not optional for children in detention. They are necessary. Were these particular children prisoners of war rather than innocent children, failure to provide those necessities would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

“Yet President Trump claims his administration is doing a fantastic job under the circumstances,” added Smith.

 

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yahoo.com

Yahoo

Patrick A. Coleman,

6-8 minutes

News broke this weekend about the horrible conditions and state-sanctioned abuse the children being held at our southern border are enduring. Reports have surfaced explaining that the detention centers where immigrant children are being held to rot are overcrowded, filthy, infested with lice and sickness, and staffed by people who have become bluntly inured to the suffering of children. These reports should horrify every American.

Reading the latest news, I understand the urge to call the centers concentration camps — it’s an analogy that seems to track with the horror many of us feel. But what’s happening to the asylum-seeking children in these detention camps is not the work of villainous Nazi’s hell-bent on the extermination of another race. If it were, it would make some kind of twisted, horrendous logic. Instead, the suffering of immigrant children at the southern border is being perpetrated by American men and women — our neighbors, our countrymen — who are “doing their job” and “doing the best they can.” Meanwhile, the rest of us enjoy our summer days with little thought to the plight of the kids, some as young as four months, who are being traumatized by the brutal conditions of the centers. What is happening is not the crime of a lunatic death-cult. It is a true-blue American sin. As a father and an American, I am deeply ashamed of what our country is doing.

Before you accuse me of hyperbole, let’s dare to take an unflinching an open-eyed look at the reports. First, understand the latest reports surfaced after five infants — yes, infants — in the largest Customs and Border Patrol Facility in McCallen, Texas, which holds up to 1,000, were sent to a neonatal intensive care unit with flu symptoms including diarrhea and vomiting. The lawyers who asked that the children be hospitalized reported seeing a toddler whose eyes were rolled back into his head. He was limp and “unresponsive.”

Nazis didn’t create the conditions for sickness, Americans did.

The hospitalization prompted a visit to the center, known as Ursula, by Dr. Dolly Lucio Sevier. Dr. Sevier assessed 39 migrant children and reported to ABC news that they had been subjected to extreme cold, an environment lit 24-hours a day, and had “no adequate access to medical care, basic sanitation, water, or adequate food.”

In a report obtained by ABC, Servier wrote the conditions could be “compared to torture facilities.”

The SS weren’t staffing these facilities, Americans were.

Reports from other facilities are just as shocking. Lawyers report some 350 children are being held in a detention center in Clint, Texas. The youngest of these children being four-and-a-half months old. In that facility, 25 children were in a holding cell where lice had been discovered on six children. CBP agents gave the six children lice shampoo and then gave two lice combs to the other 19 children and told them to take care of the situation. When the children lost one of the combs, CBP agents punished them by taking away their blankets and sleeping mats and forcing them to sleep a night on the concrete floor despite the availability of beds.

At this same facility, CBP agents had appointed a 13-year-old detainee to be the “child boss” and keep others in detainment in line. In another instance, a lawyer came across a diaper-less 2-year-old who was being watched by a group of little girls. When the lawyer asked where the child’s diaper was the girls looked ashamed and suggested the child didn’t need them. At that point, the child urinated in his pants and started crying.

The Third Reich wasn’t responsible, the American political establishment was.

The stories, as ugly as they are, should not come as a surprise. Lawyers for the Trump administration have been in a pitched battle against the rules that have been established for the care of migrant children. Those rules are part of the Flores agreement, which states that children be held for no longer than 72 hours in the “least restrictive setting appropriate to the child’s age and special needs.” But last Tuesday lawyers for the administration argued that providing soap, toothbrushes, or beds were unnecessary under the agreement.

Seven immigrant children are known to have died in the custody of CBP. These deaths occurred on American soil, under the watch of Americans.

When I think of all these children, I think of my sons and my heart breaks open. I could not imagine my kids in a similar situation. They would be haunted and traumatized for the rest of their life. And it’s only by sheer luck they were born to me. It’s only sheer luck that they were not born into the poverty and strife of Guatemala, like 8-year-old Felipe Gómez Alonzo who fled the country with his father, only to die on Christmas Eve, in New Mexico, after a week in CBP custody.

Sadly, the immigration crisis has led to useless and shameful political finger-pointing in Washington. But the partisan ideological shouting match is doing nothing for kids who are suffering right now. Parents of every background should not be blaming, but simply demanding action. We can’t have another immigrant child’s death on our national conscience.

It will soon be the 4th of July. It is my hope, as we celebrate the anniversary of our country’s independence, that our national conscience will be troubled. It’s my hope that the lyrics of Lee Greenwood’s “Proud to be an American” taste sour in our mouths and every reference to a “nation of immigrants” feels hollow and depraved.

As an act of patriotism, in this patriotic season, we should show our children that the greatest American act is demanding better of our country. Because the trauma suffered by immigrant children is not being perpetrated by some long-vanquished enemy re-emerging on our soil. It’s being perpetrated by us.

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But it's the Dems' fault for not approving a few billion more for King Orange Jackass to funnel to his golf buddies via contacts with the prison companies running these detention centers.

Times like this I hope there really is a hell. 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-a-humanitarian-crisis-of-trumps-making/2019/06/24/431262f8-96c3-11e9-8d0a-5edd7e2025b1_story.html?utm_term=.26fcbcb81435

This is the reality of Trump’s America

President Trump’s immigration policy has crossed the line from gratuitous cruelty to flat-out sadism. Perhaps he enjoys seeing innocent children warehoused in filth and squalor. Perhaps he thinks that’s what America is all about. Is he right, Trump supporters? Is he right, Republicans in Congress? Is this what you want?

A team of lawyers, tasked with monitoring the administration’s compliance with a consent decree on the treatment of migrant children, managed to gain access to a Customs and Border Protection detention center in Clint, Tex., last week. The lawyers were not allowed to tour the facility but were able to interview more than 50 of the estimated 350 children being held there.

Let me quote at length how Willamette University law professor W. Warren Binford described those interviews to a reporter for the New Yorker:

“They [the children] were filthy dirty, there was mucus on their shirts. . . . There was food on the shirts, and the pants as well. They told us that they were hungry. They told us that some of them had not showered or had not showered until the day or two days before we arrived. Many of them described that they only brushed their teeth once. This facility knew last week that we were coming. The government knew three weeks ago that we were coming.

“So, in any event, the children told us that nobody’s taking care of them, so that basically the older children are trying to take care of the younger children. The guards are asking the younger children or the older children, ‘Who wants to take care of this little boy? Who wants to take [care] of this little girl?’ and they’ll bring in a two-year-old, a three-year-old, a four-year-old. And then the littlest kids are expected to be taken care of by the older kids, but then some of the oldest children lose interest in it, and little children get handed off to other children. And sometimes we hear about the littlest children being alone by themselves on the floor.

“Many of the children reported sleeping on the concrete floor. They are being given army blankets, those wool-type blankets that are really harsh. Most of the children said they’re being given two blankets, one to put beneath them on the floor. Some of the children are describing just being given one blanket and having to decide whether to put it under them or over them because there is air-conditioning at this facility. And so they’re having to make a choice about, Do I try to protect myself from the cement, or do I try to keep warm?”

Binford told reporters that the older children described outbreaks of influenza and head lice at the overcrowded facility, which she said was designed to hold no more than 104 detainees. She told The Post that she “witnessed a 14-year-old caring for a 2-year-old without a diaper, shrugging as the baby urinated as they sat at a table because she did not know what to do.”

The legal experts monitoring the treatment of migrant children rarely go public with their findings, but Binford was shaken by what she saw and heard. She said the overwhelmed CBP guards at the Clint facility were sympathetic to her efforts and knew the children should not be warehoused in such conditions. Thankfully, according to news reports Monday night, hundreds of the children were removed from the facility.

According to the consent decree Binford is helping to monitor, they should not be warehoused at all. Most should have quickly been released to a parent, relative or guardian who is already in the United States.

Shamefully, there is more: Dolly Lucio Sevier, a physician who was able to assess 39 children at a different detention facility in McAllen, Tex., described conditions there as including “extreme cold temperatures, lights on 24 hours a day, no adequate access to medical care, basic sanitation, water, or adequate food,” according to a document obtained by ABC News.

“The conditions within which they are held could be compared to torture facilities,” Lucio Sevier wrote.

Trump and Vice President Pence responded with lies (blaming the Obama administration), deflection (blaming Democrats in Congress) and lots of oleaginous faux concern. But this is a humanitarian crisis of Trump’s making. A president who panders to his base by seizing billions of dollars from other programs to build a “big, beautiful wall” also panders to his base by cruelly treating brown-skinned migrant children like subhumans.

Do not look away. This is the reality of Trump’s America. Deal with it.

By Eugene Robinson

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i want to know where the posters are that said the camps were wonderful and they had toys etc? that they got top notch care? when the truth hits home they scatter like like flies and never admit they were wrong about it.

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 These are the same inadequate facilities that have always been used. Not as though the situation and laws are a product of President Trump. Only a few short months ago this crisis was termed "Manufactured". 

Disturbing how anti Trumpers seize this type of problem and attempt to use it for bashing those they disagree with. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/449214-dems-make-u-turn-on-calling-border-a-manufactured-crisis

After Trump issued an Oval Office address to the nation on Jan. 8 proclaiming the border situation a “crisis of the heart and a crisis of the soul,” Schumer and Pelosi gave a side-by-side rebuttal.

“This president just used the backdrop of the Oval Office to manufacture a crisis, stoke fear and divert attention from the turmoil in his administration,” Schumer said in the midst of a 35-day government shutdown sparked by a partisan disagreement over funding border barriers.

Other Democrats made similar dismissals.

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salty did you just ignore all the repubs comig out and voicing their anger and that the children deserve better? dude you are so brainwashed......

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8 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

Do not look away. This is the reality of Trump’s America. Deal with it.

It is not the reality of "Trumps America". 

 We do have a real problem. One denied by Trump opposition for years. Article intends nothing more than a hit on President Trump.   

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12 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

It is not the reality of "Trumps America". 

 We do have a real problem. One denied by Trump opposition for years. Article intends nothing more than a hit on President Trump.   

but but but......you guys say they are being treated well in the camps. then an article comes out about the treatemnt of these people and children, which by the way includes republicans and it is nothing more than a trump hit  piece. none of you on this board to am man as repubs will admit one bad thing about trump. and he steps on his doololly every single day and you people just ignore it. this is why i consider most of you to be liars. not firing y'all up just posting the truth. if someone is dishonest about things he is a liar right? so in my eyes that makes you suspect as a human being and a REAL christian. but hey......your fearless lies every single day so if it is good enough for him it is good enough for you right salty? that is one thing you cannot say about me. i admit these things when i am wrong. i even know how to apologize unlike most of your side. trump could be hitler and you guys would still be clinging to his sack. SEVEN kids are dead so far that i know of. in camps run for profit. and hey. if you are not lying then you are not reading facts being posted on our side so that disqualifies many of you from saying a single word.

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Yahoo

Lee Moran,

4-5 minutes

The federal government told a panel of Ninth Circuit appellate judges last week that US border detention facilities are "safe and sanitary," as required by law, even though migrant children are denied soap, toothbrushes and dark places to sleep.

Judge William Fletcher called the position of Sarah Fabian, a senior attorney from the Office of Immigration Litigation, "inconceivable."

Senior US Circuit Judge A Wallace Tashima told the government attorney, "If you don't have a toothbrush, if you don't have soap, if you don't have a blanket, it's not safe and sanitary."

Ms Fabian's argument spread rapidly across the internet - and so did several tweets supporting the notion that the United States treats migrant detainees less humanely than foreign pirates and the Taliban treat their captives.

American journalist Michael Scott Moore, abducted in 2012 while reporting in Somalia, watched Ms Fabian argue that minimal necessities, like toiletries and sleeping conditions, were not essential to meet minimum "safe and sanitary" standards.

"That was - let's say - below my experience in Somalia," he told The Washington Post on Tuesday of his more than two years in captivity.

"The conditions were about as miserable as you could imagine," he said, describing a barren and concrete prison house. Often there was no electricity, he said, "but we had certain minimum things that kept it from being completely wretched."

He said he was given toothpaste, soap, a daily shower and a foam mattress.

Recent reports have surfaced describing US border detainees held in cages of chain-link fencing, sleeping on concrete and covered with blankets made of aluminium foil, allegations that Customs and Border Protection officials dispute.

On Tuesday, the agency said that children in custody receive "continuous access to hygiene products and adequate food" while awaiting shelter placement.

The executive editor of the New Yorker, David Rhodes, contributed to the online conversation, too.

"The Taliban gave me toothpaste & soap," he wrote on Twitter, drawing from the seven months he spent as a hostage of the Taliban, a group known for abusing captives; the online thread of former prisoners has been liked nearly half a million times.

Washington Post Global opinions writer Jason Rezaian, who was held in Iranian custody for a year and a half and has an ongoing lawsuit against the Iranian government, also responded on Twitter.

"I felt if I didn't chime in, it would be the height of hypocrisy," Mr Rezaian told The Post on Tuesday, calling US treatment of children at the border misaligned with "what this country stands for."

"The government is treating them like they're statistics, 'the other' and not deserving of basic humanity."

From the first day in captivity, Mr Rezaian was permitted to shower regularly. He was also given a toothbrush and toothpaste. Mr Rezaian asked, "If we're going to treat the most vulnerable people this way, what does that say about our actual values?"

The case heard on Tuesday stems from a motion filed under the Obama administration. In part, it argued that Customs and Border Protection was holding children in detention facilities that were not "safe and sanitary," in violation of a 1997 precedent.

The Trump administration, however, opted to bring the appeal, asking the panel of three judges to condone current custody conditions.

The Washington Post

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17 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

salty did you just ignore all the repubs comig out and voicing their anger and that the children deserve better? dude you are so brainwashed......

You know you're not going to get an honest or thoughtful response from that crew. 

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Just now, McLoofus said:

You know you're not going to get an honest or thoughtful response from that crew. 

of course mr loof. i have already called out a few for being liars. it seems i am not well liked on the boards but i am entertainment and liable to go off the rails anytime.....

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10 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

of course mr loof. i have already called out a few for being liars. it seems i am not well liked on the boards but i am entertainment and liable to go off the rails anytime.....

If you're talking about the political boards, then take pride in being disliked by the King Orange Jackass Circle Jerk. 

If you're talking about all the boards in general, I don't think you have a good read on it. You're liked. You might not be everyone's cup of tea but nobody is. 

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14 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

of course mr loof. i have already called out a few for being liars. it seems i am not well liked on the boards but i am entertainment and liable to go off the rails anytime.....

 

giphy (1).gif

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1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

If you're talking about the political boards, then take pride in being disliked by the King Orange Jackass Circle Jerk. 

If you're talking about all the boards in general, I don't think you have a good read on it. You're liked. You might not be everyone's cup of tea but nobody is. 

just the political boards loof.

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1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

 

giphy (1).gif

liars are liars but here is the thing. if ya screw up in a lie and admit it it makes you a man of honor somewhat. if you lie to win an argument then you lose all cred and just become another mouth spouting crap.............that is the difference between me and you.

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53 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

liars are liars but here is the thing. if ya screw up in a lie and admit it it makes you a man of honor somewhat. if you lie to win an argument then you lose all cred and just become another mouth spouting crap.............that is the difference between me and you.

It also helps to be able to distinguish a "lie" from an honest mistake.  MAGA's cannot admit a mistake, much less a lie.

I suspect it has to do with an inherent feeling of insecurity and perceived persecution by elite liberals - can't show weakness! 

That's the basic appeal of Trump - he panders to losers who think the system is stacked against them.

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8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

It also helps to be able to distinguish a "lie" from an honest mistake.  MAGA's cannot admit a mistake, much less a lie.

I suspect it has to do with an inherent feelings of insecurity and perceived persecution by elite liberals. Can't show weakness! 

That's the basic appeal of Trump - he panders to losers who think the system is stacked against them.

And there it is. The most spiteful, self-sabotaging revenge tour in history. 

I'll never be able to reckon with the fear and lack of self-esteem that motivates these people. But there are so many of them. Not quite half the country, but close. And knowing that is much worse than the actual experience of that used toilet paper of a human being POTUS. 

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 4-month-old baby was separated from his parents at the border. Now he is nearly 2 and still can't speak or walk.

Michelle Mark

5-6 minutes

A four-month-old baby is likely the youngest migrant child separated from their family by the Trump administration last year, The New York Times reported.

In an episode of the newspaper's new TV series that aired on Hulu and FX on Sunday, reporter Caitlin Dickerson detailed her efforts to track down Constantin Mutu, who is now more than a year-and-a-half old and has been reunited with his parents in Romania.

The child was taken from his father at the US-Mexico border last year and was sent to live with a foster family in Michigan for five months while his father was detained and deported back to Romania.

The Mutus, seeking better lives for themselves in America, sold their home to pay a smuggler who would take them through Mexico to America, where they would request asylum, they told The Times.

But Constantin and his father, Vasile Mutu, ended up accidentally separated from their other family members on the journey, and ended up requesting asylum from US immigration officers alone.

"The police wiped the floor with me," Vasile Mutu told The Times through a translator, adding that the officers dragged him out of the room while leaving Constantin behind. "I started crying because I didn't know what to do. … I couldn't speak English. I told them, 'I don't understand. Why?'"

Thousands of children were separated by the Trump administration

Central American asylum seekers wait as U.S. Border Patrol agents take them into custody on June 12, 2018 near McAllen, Texas.

Getty Images/John Moore

The Mutus' situation played out similarly to that of thousands of migrant families who crossed border illegally last spring. Under the Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy, all adults caught crossing the border illegally were taken for criminal prosecution, thereby separating them from any children that had been traveling with them.

President Donald Trump addressed family separations in a Telemundo interview that aired Thursday, falsely accusing former President Barack Obama of implementing a family separation policy and denying that his own administration was responsible.

Read more: Trump says he 'brought the families together' after being confronted in an interview about migrant family separations

Trump also misleadingly took credit for reuniting the thousands of migrant families that were separated last year.

"When I became president, President Obama had a separation policy. I didn't have it. He had it," Trump said, inaccurately. "I brought the families together. I'm the one that put them together. Now I said something when I did that: 'Watch, many more people will come up,' and that's what happened."

Though Trump signed an executive order in June 2018 halting family separations under the "zero tolerance" policy, his administration did not reunite families until a federal judge ordered officials to begin doing so.

To this day, it's unknown exactly how many children were separated, though the number is in the thousands.

Experts warned that children like Constantin could suffer lasting harm from the separations

As for Constantin, his reunification with his family was nearly as traumatizing as his separation. He screamed and cried the entire drive back from the Romanian airport, devastated at the loss of his foster mother, The Times reported.

Pediatricians and mental-health experts had long warned that family separation would cause serious, lasting psychological damage to children like Constantin. Removing a caregiver from a young child's life can cause depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, which can be especially harmful to young children's developing brains.

Read more: Separating kids from parents at the border mirrors a 'textbook strategy' of domestic abuse, experts say — and causes irreversible, lifelong damage

Constantin's mother told The Times she struggled for weeks to get her son to eat and sleep, and often texted the foster mother for advice. Constantin is now 18 months old, and still can't walk on his own, and cannot speak.

"He says absolutely nothing," his mother said.

Read more:

In the chaos to reunite migrant children with their families, 37 kids were left in vans for up to 39 hours, with Texas temperatures in the 90s

Thousands more children were separated from their parents at the border than were previously known, inspector general reveals in bombshell report

Sexual abuse and harassment reports in migrant children's shelters spiked during Trump's family separations

'Does it differ from the cages you put your dogs in?': Democrats lambaste Kirstjen Nielsen over whether migrant children are still held in cages at the border

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24 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And there it is. The most spiteful, self-sabotaging revenge tour in history. 

I'll never be able to reckon with the fear and lack of self-esteem that motivates these people. But there are so many of them. Not quite half the country, but close. And knowing that is much worse than the actual experience of that used toilet paper of a human being POTUS. 

In many cases, the feeling of satisfaction they get from Trump "owning" the liberal elite and the minorities "threatening" them far outweighs their attraction to his actual policies -  many of which work against their own interests.

Some have admitted as much to me on this forum.  I'd name names, but then I would have to find the post. ;)

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19 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

 4-month-old baby was separated from his parents at the border. Now he is nearly 2 and still can't speak or walk.

 

Holy s***.   :(

Knowing what we now know about infant development during the first few years, this is just flat out unconscionable.

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1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Holy s***.   :(

Knowing what we now know about infant development during the first few years, this is just flat out unconscionable.

what breaks my heart more than this is all the christians claiming to love jesus making excuses for this kind of behavior. these are sad days in america.

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4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

In many cases, the feeling of satisfaction they get from Trump "owning" the liberal elite and the minorities "threatening" them far outweighs their attraction to his actual policies -  many of which work against their own interests.

Some have admitted as much to me on this forum.  I'd name names, but then I would have to find the post. ;)

I feel like Mikey has said things along the lines of "anything that upsets the lefty losers". Of course, he loves his slogans. I guess they simplify everything for him. Goodness knows he's not much for actually thinking about things. 

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