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japantiger

52% of Democrats favor the citizenship question in the census

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A Harvard University Center for American Political Studies/Harris poll found that 67% of all registered U.S. voters say the census should ask the citizenship question when the time comes. That includes 88% of Republicans, 63% of independents and 52% of Democrats.

Most notably, the poll found that 55% of Hispanic voters favor the idea.

Also in agreement: 74% of rural voters, 59% of black voters, 58% of urban voters and 47% of voters who backed Hillary Clinton in 2016. At 44%, liberal voters were the least likely to favor the citizenship question.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/9/55-of-hispanic-voters-approve-citizenship-question/

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If that is true, there are some scary demographics lining up for this election. 

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Hell, the real question should be why was the Citizenship question taken off of the census in the first place?  It was there in either the "long form" or the "short form" census from the beginning.

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It should be on there, states with low illegal numbers like Alabama lose out in the numbers game. I think Alabama's Att. Gen has a law suit in place over this right now.

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5 hours ago, japantiger said:

 

A Harvard University Center for American Political Studies/Harris poll found that 67% of all registered U.S. voters say the census should ask the citizenship question when the time comes. That includes 88% of Republicans, 63% of independents and 52% of Democrats.

Most notably, the poll found that 55% of Hispanic voters favor the idea.

Also in agreement: 74% of rural voters, 59% of black voters, 58% of urban voters and 47% of voters who backed Hillary Clinton in 2016. At 44%, liberal voters were the least likely to favor the citizenship question.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/9/55-of-hispanic-voters-approve-citizenship-question/

most have no clue what it means or the damage that little question can do to elections to make them tilt to the repubs favor.

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18 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

most have no clue what it means or the damage that little question can do to elections to make them tilt to the repubs favor.

You want to explain how a census question tilts an election...

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7 minutes ago, japantiger said:

You want to explain how a census question tilts an election...

let me keep it real simple. i agree with the supreme court on this and roberts agreed and is very conservative. but of course you or someone will come in and bash roberts. i want elections to be fair. you guys could care less as long as you win period.

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3 hours ago, japantiger said:

You want to explain how a census question tilts an election...

Let me help you out:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/23/republicans-census-2020-election-gerrymandering

The real reason Republicans are so interested in the census

The supreme court is expected to soon rule on whether the Trump administration can add a question about citizenship to the US census. If you want to understand the real purpose of Republican proposals to add a citizenship question to the US census, a good place to start is last November’s Texas state house elections.

Democrats captured 12 seats in Texas’s lower chamber, propelled by long-simmering demographic changes that have made this red state less white, rural, and conservative. The Republican party’s enormous majority has commensurately crumbled: a 101-49 advantage in 2011 has now been sliced to a narrow 83-67. That slight edge could easily evaporate by the mid-2020s.

The master Republican strategist Thomas Hofeller didn’t live to see those dramatic results. He died three months earlier, in August 2018. He anticipated them, however, and left behind a simple yet sophisticated plan to hold back the new face of Texas and keep state government in Republican hands regardless of demographic changes. The citizenship question would be the sandbag.

Hofeller’s long-term strategy to maintain conservative power in a changing nation is at the heart of the census question, and the most important - though perhaps least understood - takeaway from a treasure trove of documents discovered after his death. If successful, his strategy could lock in Republican control not only in Texas, but other slowly changing states like Georgia, Arizona, and Florida. It could also undo any possible decision by the US supreme court this month to rein in the worst partisan gerrymandering.

The Republican plan? Fundamentally re-imagining the way we redistrict state legislatures. The US constitution mandates that congressional districts are drawn based on total population, and state governments have followed that lead when drawing their maps. But the supreme court left the actual metric up to the states.

Hofeller wanted to see what would happen if states drew districts based on citizen voting-age population, and not total population. While it sounds wonky and technical, this subtle shift has the potential to remake political power for decades to come.

The documents, revealed after Hofeller’s estranged daughter turned several thumb drives filled with her father’s work over to Common Cause, suggest this change would have a dramatic effect on political representation. Hofeller concluded in a 2015 memo that the switch “would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites”, because it would dilute the votes of the Texas’s growing Latino population.

Why? Drawing districts based on total population counts everyone: voters and non-voters, citizens and non-citizens, adults and children. It’s based on our constitutional, founding theory that a representative must represent all the people, not just adult voters.

But take a state like Texas, for example – a large state with a growing immigrant population, especially in cities like Dallas and Houston. Districts need to be equal in population. Include only voting-age citizens in the overall population count – and subtract, for example, non-citizen Latinos and their children – and you end up with larger, and fewer, Democratic districts.

The key to the entire strategy? Gathering citizenship data, district by district, during the next census. “Without a question on citizenship being included on the 2020 Decennial Census questionnaire,” Hofeller noted in one memo, “the use of citizen voting age population is functionally unworkable.” A state legislature under Republican control could make this change by simple statute, redefining the very nature of political power and entrenching itself in office by passing one law.

Several important revelations from Hofeller’s thumb drives have made front-page news. Last week, challengers of the citizenship question asked the Court to hold off its impending decision to consider new evidence that Hofeller designed the question to benefit Republicans. The new documents also helped place Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in jeopardy of contempt of Congress.

But while most of the coverage of the citizenship question has focused on the potential for an undercount of Latinos and other minority groups that transfers congressional seats to whiter, more rural states, there has been less awareness of this crucial second step. The goal, as revealed in these documents, is not simply to undercount Latinos and reapportion Congress. It’s to gain an accurate citizenship count that makes it possible to change the way we redistrict state legislatures, as well.

The citizenship question, then, did not start with Trump – and contrary to the administration’s claims, is not about better enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. It’s the latest in decades of sophisticated strategies quietly designed by Republicans over decades to protect white political power at the expense of blacks, Latinos, and other racial minorities.

It would be easy to relegate all this to the world of conspiracy theory if the Hofeller memos didn’t spell everything out so clearly in black and white – and if this didn’t fit so squarely into Hofeller’s project of using voting and demographic data to draw maps holding back the demographic tides of a changing nation.

Hofeller specialized in redistricting, and it’s the connection between his census work and redistricting that’s so important here, particularly since we are less than two years away from the redrawing of every state legislative and congressional district nationwide.

He was the Republican gerrymandering guru, the operative who taught Republican legislators how to use mapping software and voter data to construct district lines sturdy enough to hold back a Democratic wave. He was an architect and the godfather of enduring Republican advantages this decade in swing states like North Carolina, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Back in the 1980s, Hofeller helped conceive of an audacious plan to turn the South red through the Voting Rights Act. The VRA’s reauthorization in 1982 included a provision that required mapmakers to draw majority-minority seats, where possible, to help protect minority voting rights and elect more representatives of color.

Hofeller realized how this could also benefit Republicans. He provided black Democrats in the South with the information and computers they needed to draw majority-minority seats that expanded African-American representation – but also bleached surrounding districts to be whiter, more rural, and more Republican. In 1994, this strategy Republicans allowed Republicans to break the Democrats’ four-decade hammerlock on the US House.

Then in 2008, jubilant throngs celebrated Barack Obama’s 2008 victory in Grant Park, and pundits noted the looming demographic time bomb for the Republican Party and openly questioned whether a changing American electorate would render Republicans a minority party for a generation.

Hofeller had a different idea. He worked with the Republican State Leadership Committee on a plan called Redmap – short for the Redistricting Majority Project – which sought to solidify Republican control of state legislatures in key redistricting states ahead of the 2011 census. The RSLC dropped millions in last-minute negative ads on local Democratic legislators who never saw it coming. Then Hofeller and his team provided assistance or drew maps in North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and elsewhere that have locked in Republican control all decade, even when Democrats win hundreds of thousands more votes. (The Common Cause documents also suggest that Hofeller and/or other Republicans in North Carolina used race data to redraw maps that a court had already ruled an unconstitutional racial gerrymander, then misled the court about it.)

If Hofeller were here to defend himself, he would say he was simply doing all he could to secure a partisan advantage for his side. But all these smoking-gun documents strip that pretense away. They make clear that a shift to citizen, voting-age population would dilute the votes of Latinos and enhance the power of whites and Republicans. Nevertheless, whether partisanship or race is at the heart of Hofeller’s motivation, the result is the same: Expanding the influence of white voters and Republican voters at the expense of communities of color. And an America that has become increasingly anti-majoritarian, governed by unaccountable legislators from districts carefully drawn to protect them from voters.

Democrats, meanwhile, always seem a step behind. They’re fighting the uphill battle to win back gerrymandered legislatures, and fighting partisan gerrymanders in the courts. Meanwhile, Hofeller and the Republican aim to change the entire paradigm yet again, with this shift to citizen voting-age population.

Hofeller never intended to leave a digital smoking gun. He always cautioned against leaving any digital trail that could later haunt the Republican Party in court. “The e in email,” he lectured, “stands for eternal.” But now that these digital files from the grave have shown the real motivation behind the census question and Republican gerrymanders, it’s more important than ever for the courts to defend democracy - and the crucial notion of one person, one vote - against the pernicious efforts of determined partisans to entrench their own power, no matter the price to our nation’s ideals.

Author David Daley is the author of the national bestseller Ratf**ked: Why Your Vote Doesn’t Count and a senior fellow at FairVote

Edited by homersapien
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3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Let me help you out:

Another article "opinion politics" so not a lot of help. Hard to understand why any American would have a problem with knowing the citizen/non citizen population.

  

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15 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Another article "opinion politics" so not a lot of help. Hard to understand why any American would have a problem with knowing the citizen/non citizen population.

  

First, most Americans have very little knowledge of the census.  For example, the way we conduct it via a "direct count" is not the most accurate way of taking it.

(Read "Proofiness, How You're Being Fooled By The Numbers"  by George Seife)

More directly, please note that actual recorded evidence that proves their political intentions has been made public. (Try actually reading the posted article - I included all of it. :-\)   

That's not "opinion", those are facts.   Facts are something that no longer exist in MAGA world.  The courts certainly saw through it, even though like most MAGAs, you refuse to acknowledge simple facts. 

Pull your head out Salty, you're embarrassing yourself as well as the rest of us.

 

Edited by homersapien

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9 hours ago, homersapien said:

Pull your head out Salty, you're embarrassing yourself as well as the rest of us.

Sure it is an opinion article. You are embarrassing yourself. Re-read what I said 

  

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2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Sure it is an opinion article. You are embarrassing yourself. Re-read what I said 

  

Haha Homer is one of the least objective posters on this entire forum. I find it cute when he employs the whole “well the facts...” bs. 

 

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On 7/11/2019 at 12:55 PM, aubiefifty said:

let me keep it real simple. i agree with the supreme court on this and roberts agreed and is very conservative. but of course you or someone will come in and bash roberts. i want elections to be fair. you guys could care less as long as you win period.

Please provide some support for your claim ... other than your TDS.

I do believe Roberts judgement was flawed.  If we can ask people how many toilets they have; it's nonsensical to rule you can't know who is using them.  I believe we have a right to know if the people in our country belong here; and so does the law of the land.   The law is clear; these people are here illegally.  This is not a serious discussion on your part.  Your own party leadership has admitted why they want illegals here ... nice job of trying to accuse the other side of doing what you're doing.  To bring illegals in to attempt to nullify the votes of American citizens is immoral. 

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The census asks age, names, sex, occupation and other personal questions. To say the citizenship question doesn't belong there is nonsense.

Edited by Mikey
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11 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Haha Homer is one of the least objective posters on this entire forum. I find it cute when he employs the whole “well the facts...” bs. 

 

Irony.

Go back and actually read the piece. Hofeller stated his actual motivations. He meant for it to remain secret but his daughter found a thumb drive with the information and leaked it. Fact.

It's the equivalent of a written confession.

MAGAs just can't handle the truth.

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6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The census asks age, names, sex, occupation and other personal questions. To say the citizenship question doesn't belong there is nonsense.

Another non-reader. :no:

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10 hours ago, japantiger said:

Please provide some support for your claim ... other than your TDS.

I do believe Roberts judgement was flawed.  If we can ask people how many toilets they have; it's nonsensical to rule you can't know who is using them.  I believe we have a right to know if the people in our country belong here; and so does the law of the land.   The law is clear; these people are here illegally.  This is not a serious discussion on your part.  Your own party leadership has admitted why they want illegals here ... nice job of trying to accuse the other side of doing what you're doing.  To bring illegals in to attempt to nullify the votes of American citizens is immoral. 

show me a link whee our own party said they wanted illegals here to win elections?

time.com
 

The Actually True and Provable Facts About Non-Citizen Voting

Wendy Weiser and Douglas Keith

The Trump administration continues to double down on its false and widely-criticized assertion that 3 to 5 million non-citizens illegally voted in the 2016 election.

On Sunday, White House Senior Advisor Stephen Miller claimed 14% of non-citizens are registered to vote. “We know for a fact, you have massive numbers of non-citizens registered to vote in this country,” he said, appearing on ABC’s This Week With George Stephanopoulos. “The White House has provided enormous evidence with respect to voter fraud.”

Actually, it hasn’t. Nevertheless, President Trump announced earlier this month, despite the lack of evidence, that Vice President Mike Pence will lead a federal investigation into voter fraud.

President Trump Wants a 'Major Investigation' Into Voter Fraud That Didn’t Happen

President Trump will be asking officials to launch a “major investigation” into whether millions of people illegally voted in the 2016 election, he said Wednesday, continuing to push the demonstrably false claim that his popular vote loss to Hillary

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9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Irony.

Go back and actually read the piece. Hofeller stated his actual motivations. He meant for it to remain secret but his daughter found a thumb drive with the information and leaked it. Fact.

It's the equivalent of a written confession.

MAGAs just can't handle the truth.

you miss the point homie. the right thinks libs are such a horrible disease that it is ok to game the system and not allow americans a chance to vote in a fair election when it comes to libs. they feel they are vastly superior and the right should be running the country. jap had a statement that stated liberalism is a disease and it was there every single time he made a statement until he removed it. that is their mindset. and when you prove to them a point they stand by they retaliate with name calling. the truth is they want america to be white mans country. and with white america soon to be a minority their side will do or say anything to get their way. hell, look no further than trump. they will never admit it but they believe people of color are tearing this country apart. now is that racism? trump uses the hate and fear card because that is all he has got.

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30 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Irony.

Go back and actually read the piece. Hofeller stated his actual motivations. He meant for it to remain secret but his daughter found a thumb drive with the information and leaked it. Fact.

It's the equivalent of a written confession.

MAGAs just can't handle the truth.

We've had a question on citizenship for over 200 years.  We have a right to know who is in the country.  What one transient bureaucrat wrote is irrelevant.  Trump should just ignore them and ask the question.  Separate but equal branches don't need the blessing of another when they exercise their legitimate authority.  The law on immigration is clear.  This is why we need to clean out the swamp and the courts.  I don't see how they can in one case set back on the districting cases and rightly find it's none of their business; and in the same week weigh-in on something so patently obviously not their business.  This is as absurd as the individual mandate ruling.    The petition to the court should have been, "I'm going to ask the question because I can.  If you don't like it, I won't enforce your irrelevant ruling.  Stay in your lane Bro".

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19 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you miss the point homie. the right thinks libs are such a horrible disease that it is ok to game the system and not allow americans a chance to vote in a fair election when it comes to libs. they feel they are vastly superior and the right should be running the country. jap had a statement that stated liberalism is a disease and it was there every single time he made a statement until he removed it. that is their mindset. and when you prove to them a point they stand by they retaliate with name calling. the truth is they want america to be white mans country. and with white america soon to be a minority their side will do or say anything to get their way. hell, look no further than trump. they will never admit it but they believe people of color are tearing this country apart. now is that racism? trump uses the hate and fear card because that is all he has got.

First off 50, I haven't removed anything...if something got removed it was the "unbiased" Mods being, well, , er, unbiased.   Liberalism is a disease...period.  When you don't know how many sexes there are, you have a mental disorder.  When you put illegals rights above US citizens, you have a mental disorder.   When murdering live born infants is "women's health care", you have a mental disorder.  When everyone who disagrees with you is a racist (while your party still has a KKK hooded governor in charge of VA),  you have a mental disorder and when "you still see Russians everywhere," you have a mental disorder.

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2 hours ago, japantiger said:

We've had a question on citizenship for over 200 years.  We have a right to know who is in the country.  What one transient bureaucrat wrote is irrelevant.  Trump should just ignore them and ask the question.  Separate but equal branches don't need the blessing of another when they exercise their legitimate authority.  The law on immigration is clear.  This is why we need to clean out the swamp and the courts.  I don't see how they can in one case set back on the districting cases and rightly find it's none of their business; and in the same week weigh-in on something so patently obviously not their business.  This is as absurd as the individual mandate ruling.    The petition to the court should have been, "I'm going to ask the question because I can.  If you don't like it, I won't enforce your irrelevant ruling.  Stay in your lane Bro".

You obviously don't understand or respect the role of the Supreme Court in our system. I suggest you find a "Civics" elementary book and cover it again.

Thank God there's not enough of you people to actually negate our constitution and destroy our democracy. 

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23 hours ago, homersapien said:

Irony.

Go back and actually read the piece. Hofeller stated his actual motivations. He meant for it to remain secret but his daughter found a thumb drive with the information and leaked it. Fact.

It's the equivalent of a written confession.

MAGAs just can't handle the truth.

Quoted this one, but the original piece had me a bit confused.

Are non citizens currently allowed to vote for political leaders? If not, is it the goal of the democratic party to get all non-US citizens the right to vote?

Also, is it your belief that everyone regardless of citizenship has the right to vote? Are there any qualifiers in your personal opinion that are good or maybe that we should have but currently do not?

 

 

 

And to the part I actually quoted, seemingly immoral motivations does not necessarily mean evil or bad means. If I think I have a better chance of winning an election in an area with an extremely high literacy rate because i want to disperse propaganda pamphlets. It means I have an evil plan, not that literacy itself is bad.

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1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

Quoted this one, but the original piece had me a bit confused.

Are non citizens currently allowed to vote for political leaders? If not, is it the goal of the democratic party to get all non-US citizens the right to vote?

Also, is it your belief that everyone regardless of citizenship has the right to vote? Are there any qualifiers in your personal opinion that are good or maybe that we should have but currently do not?

 

 

 

And to the part I actually quoted, seemingly immoral motivations does not necessarily mean evil or bad means. If I think I have a better chance of winning an election in an area with an extremely high literacy rate because i want to disperse propaganda pamphlets. It means I have an evil plan, not that literacy itself is bad.

Non-citizens cannot vote since no state allows them to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States

I cannot speak for Democrats, but personally, I don't believe citizenship should necessarily be a prerequisite.  For example, if a person has a permanent residency status, spends most of their time in the US and is subject to all of the responsibilities of citizenship, such as paying taxes, they should be allowed to vote, especially if they serve or have served in the military.  

It seems to me that if we can accept such people in the military - where they are presumably subject to giving their life for the country - they should be able to vote.

But frankly, I don't know enough about pros and cons of the argument at this time to have a firm position. 

Regardless, this argument is about the partisan reasons that Trump and the Republicans are pushing for inclusion of the question - to put them at an advantage politically.

And it's not about them trying to restrict votes per se' (non-citizens cannot vote), it's about distorting the census results to restrict the head count in areas that are more inclined to vote for their opposition.  They want areas that are prone to vote Democratic to be under-counted, which undermines the purpose of the Census.  Inclusion of the citizenship question guarantees and under counting of the population in those areas.

What I am referring to in my post are the Hofeller documents that were discovered and released by his daughter which reveal the actual Republican motives for adding a citizenship question.

 

 

https://www.commoncause.org/press-release/new-filing-gop-gerrymandering-guru-and-high-level-census-bureau-official-discussed-census-citizenship-question/

NEW FILING: GOP Gerrymandering Guru and High-Level Census Bureau Official Discussed Census Citizenship Question

Evidence collected during an anti-gerrymandering lawsuit in North Carolina could play a critical role in a separate lawsuit seeking to block a citizenship question from being added to the census. MALDEF and Asian Americans Advancing Justice submitted new evidence from the Thomas Hofeller files to a federal court in Maryland on Friday and will ask U.S. District Judge George J. Hazel to reconsider his earlier ruling on whether the administration conspired with others to intentionally discriminate against Latinos and noncitizens. 

The new evidence includes a 2015 personal email from a top U.S. Census official named Christa Jones to Republican operative Thomas Hofeller inviting him to submit comments on citizenship during a research and development cycle leading up to the re-engineered 2020 Census. Jones currently is Chief of Staff to the Director of the U.S. Census Bureau.

Hofeller, now deceased, was the chief map-drawer for Republicans in North Carolina and author of a 2015 study recommending a citizenship question be added to the census. The study, recently introduced as bombshell evidence in a census lawsuit in the federal district court in Manhattan, indicates the citizenship question was added to rig the census and district maps to be, in Hofeller’s words, “advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites.” 

The 2015 study and emails were obtained by Common Cause from Hofeller’s daughter through the discovery process in Common Cause’s anti-gerrymandering lawsuit, Common Cause v. Lewis, which goes to trial in North Carolina this July. Hofeller was also deposed in Rucho v. Common Cause, a challenge to North Carolina’s congressional maps now before the U.S. Supreme Court. 

The Hofeller files reveal a Republican plot to manipulate elections by jeopardizing the accuracy of the census and rigging district maps,” said Kathay Feng, national redistricting director for Common Cause. “We know from depositions that Hofeller was shameless in his pursuit of partisan advantage. This new evidence reveals the connection between Hofeller’s partisan motives and the Commerce Department’s thinly veiled attempt to weaponize the census against Latinos and immigrant families.” 

 

 

https://www.commoncause.org/page/read-the-gops-plan-to-supercharge-gerrymandering-with-a-census-citizenship-question/

New Evidence Exposes GOP Census Rigging

Back in 2015, a Republican operative named Thomas Hofeller — once called “the Michelangelo of the modern gerrymander” — was hired by a Republican megadonor to conduct a study: what if the rules of redistricting were changed to draw legislative districts based on the number of voting citizens living in them, not the total number of people living in a state?

Hofeller recognized this change would be a “radical departure from the federal ‘one person, one vote’ rule presently used in the United State.”

Hofeller even recognized that it would be hard to convince the Supreme Court to mandate this change, unless… they could figure out how to add a citizenship question on the upcoming 2020 Census.

Then, in the next round of redistricting, the plan was for Republicans to use that citizenship data to supercharge their partisan gerrymandering strategy: excising a large number of Americans out of redistricting altogether, and packing the remaining Democrats and voters of color into as few districts as possible.

Hofeller’s documents are a “smoking gun” — exposing exactly how he and his fellow operatives worked to undermine the integrity of our Census, manipulate redistricting, and rig the elections for partisan advantage.

 

 

 

Edited by homersapien

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21 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Non-citizens cannot vote since no state allows them to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States

I cannot speak for Democrats, but personally, I don't believe citizenship should necessarily be a prerequisite.  For example, if a person has a permanent residency status, spends most of their time in the US and is subject to all of the responsibilities of citizenship, such as paying taxes, they should be allowed to vote, especially if they serve or have served in the military.  

But frankly, I don't know enough about the details or the pros and cons of the question at this time to have a firm position.

Regardless, what I was referring to in my post are the Hofeller documents that were discovered and released by his daughter which reveal the actual Republican motives for imploying a citizenship question.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/05/census-citizenship-question-republican-gerrymandering

What has one persons thoughts got to do with the REAL FACTUAL history of questions on the census?

On 7/13/2019 at 9:51 AM, japantiger said:

We've had a question on citizenship for over 200 years.  We have a right to know who is in the country.  What one transient bureaucrat wrote is irrelevant.  Trump should just ignore them and ask the question.  Separate but equal branches don't need the blessing of another when they exercise their legitimate authority.  The law on immigration is clear.  This is why we need to clean out the swamp and the courts.  I don't see how they can in one case set back on the districting cases and rightly find it's none of their business; and in the same week weigh-in on something so patently obviously not their business.  This is as absurd as the individual mandate ruling.    The petition to the court should have been, "I'm going to ask the question because I can.  If you don't like it, I won't enforce your irrelevant ruling.  Stay in your lane Bro".

This seems so obvious that you have to question WHY others even find this to be an issue.

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