Trump has a “go back to Africa” moment

[TitanTiger 20,472]

2 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

I think this considerably more nationalist than racist, and I'm not a Trump supporter. Blown way out of proportion like most everything he says or tweets. 

It's becoming all but impossible to blow things he says and does out of proportion.

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

16 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

It's becoming all but impossible to blow things he says and does out of proportion.

Come on, man.  Blowing things he says out of proportion is *sport* for the Media and leftist. If you look at what he says isn’t it more xenophobic than racist?  Or do these terms mesh together when it suits the cause?

[toddc 13,194]

11 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I don’t think you’re stupid. I just think you’re willfully ignorant. Either that or you know what he means and you just don’t care, because you feel the same way. 

Now you’re trying to imply that I am racist! Good grief, I’m sickened by you! I’m not ever replying to you again!! This is why you can’t have a different opinion and express it without someone like you making a backhanded attempt to call someone you know nothing about racist!

[homersapien 11,366]

13 hours ago, kevon67 said:

I agree same as with the reporter telling Gorka to go home.........unacceptable.

Except without the clearly racist component associated with Latino and Black people.  Gorka is white and trust me, he does not "threaten" white nationalists like people of color.

Now maybe if a Black or Latino nationalist told him to go home, you'd have a point.

[homersapien 11,366]

21 hours ago, AUDub said:

A good read

 

"American polarization is reaching a dangerous phase. On a bipartisan basis, criticism of presidents and our political opponents is escalating. I’m old enough to remember all the way back to 2015, when GOP hatred for Barack Obama even on occasion trumped Republican patriotism. Remember when Mike Huckabee actually urged American Christians not to join the military so long as Obama — or someone like him — remained president? Which country should he go back to so that he can somehow earn back our respect?

Trump is fully employing malice as a political strategy. It’s not clever. It’s not shrewd. It’s destructive and wrong. The fact that so few Republicans can muster enough courage to state this obvious truth speaks to a sad reality — the rot extends far beyond 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue."

[homersapien 11,366]

15 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Just an opinion:

That Trump favors a legal path is not a new phenomenon, even among former presidents. I do not believe Trump nor the aforementioned presidents were racists. 

 

Of course past presidents who support a legal path to citizenship  are not racists.

But while support of such doesn't mean one isn't a racist, blatant racist comments and past behavior do.  

Racism is as racism does.  Trump is most certainly racist. 

You are in denial if you believe otherwise.

[homersapien 11,366]

14 hours ago, toddc said:

Cops are racist, BP officers are racist, all evangelicals are racists, Pelosi is racist, Biden is racist, Trump is racist, Ohmar is racist.... did I miss anyone? I’m sick of the way people throw this term around like everything anyone says is construed as racist! Ridiculous!

And that is exactly what Trump is doing to our culture.  Defining hate and racism down.

Tell a Latino or Black Americans to go back to where they came from?  Nah, that's not racist, it's just one of those things anyone says that could be construed as racist.

(Only in this case, "anyone" is our president.)    

Good grief.

[homersapien 11,366]

14 hours ago, toddc said:

The OP is a great example of making things say something that was never said. He didn’t say go back to your country, and he meant go back to your district and fix that and then come back to congress and tell us how to fix the US.

Yeah right. 

You need to get busy and tell the rest of the ******* world they misunderstood him.

 

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

“prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.”

Is this the definition y’all are going by?

Those of us who lived in Alabama during the 60's really don't need to rely on dictionary definitions.

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

I honestly dont hang much on words, but didnt he say say go back and fix wherever they came from and come back and show us how its done? Something more on those lines?... I kinda took it all as him pointing out.. If you dont like America leave, go wherever, make a better place and come back and let us know how you did it if you want. I just dont see anything wrong with that. 

Someone who doesn't "hang much on words" should probably find something else to do than participate in a forum.

And it's not like Trump's statements haven't been quoted, like everywhere.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

34 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Come on, man.  Blowing things he says out of proportion is *sport* for the Media and leftist. If you look at what he says isn’t it more xenophobic than racist?  Or do these terms mesh together when it suits the cause?

When you assume that people who aren't your "typical" white, Western European ancestry type person weren't born here, it's racist.  It's casting folks who aren't people of color as the standard/the norm/the default and everyone else as "other."  So no, I don't see it as xenophobic.  The issue is his assumption that these Congresswomen aren't Americans in the same sense as he and people like him are (born here) because they're brown and have different sounding names.

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I’m 99.999% sure that he wouldn’t say that, unless they had an English accent and were black or brown. 

In which case he would tell them to go back to their country of "origin".

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Hahahahaha. Dude, you’re such a cop-out. You hate being challenged.

 

Nola, you may find it entertaining to parse Trump's  racist comments for actual racism (as you would define it) but you are pissing into the wind.  It's dumb.  Insultingly dumb.

You are not "challenging" anyone, you are simply making a fool of yourself.

 

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I think some folks here could listen to Trump use the words "n***er" and "wetback" and would still shrug and hem and haw about what he *really* meant.  

"I mean, is that really racist?  Who can say what's really in a man's heart?"

 

Yeah, it's just words. 

[homersapien 11,366]

11 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

How did I defend it? I conceded that it was ill-advised and inconsiderate, offensive, and hurtful to the recipient. Please address this response.

The second point I raised was the issue of whether his statements fairly and necessarily lead to the conclusion that they were made on the basis of the perception that his race is superior to theirs. Were they? I then pointed out that the existence of “racism” can turn on the scope one attributes it. This latter point is particularly notable when the issue of race-superiority isn’t facially apparent (expressly provided).

Good grief Nola.  I know we don't align politically, but you aren't stupid. 

Trump is pandering to less educated, fearful white people who feel threatened by people of color, especially as they increase proportionally .  He is reinforcing the idea that only white people are legitimate Americans while people of color are not - having originated from somewhere else.  (As if we all didn't originate from somewhere else.)

That's the subliminal message behind "Make America Great Again" (as back when white people had an undisputed majority and most colored people didn't even have the right to vote.)  That's exactly why he spent so much effort to imply Obama - as a black person - was illegitimate.

White Nationalism (aka as racism) is the foundation of his political appeal.

If you agree with him, just say so.  But stop weaseling about whether or not is meets some mythical minimum standard defining racism. It's demeaning.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

When you assume that people who aren't your "typical" white, Western European ancestry type person weren't born here, it's racist.  It's casting folks who aren't people of color as the standard/the norm/the default and everyone else as "other."  So no, I don't see it as xenophobic.  The issue is his assumption that these Congresswomen aren't Americans in the same sense as he and people like him are (born here) because they're brown and have different sounding names.

There is a resolution in the House at this time condemning Trump’s Xenophobic tweet.  The resolution only says xenophobic tweet, not racist tweet.  It’s interesting that the yahoo title has racist in it but not the resolution.  Hmmm  If we have this words that narrowly describe phobias then why not use them in stead of lumping two similar ideas together.

You said it in your first sentence “assume”, you assume things when it is beneficial to your believe and racism is a much harsher word than being xenophobic.  If words matter, why not use the correct one? The resistance maybe?

https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-racist-tweets-put-us-120200708.html

[homersapien 11,366]

7 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

There is a resolution in the House at this time condemning Trump’s Xenophobic tweet.  The resolution only says xenophobic tweet, not racist tweet.  It’s interesting that the yahoo title has racist in it but not the resolution.  Hmmm  If we have this words that narrowly describe phobias then why not use them in stead of lumping two similar ideas together.

You said it in your first sentence “assume”, you assume things when it is beneficial to your believe and racism is a much harsher word than being xenophobic.  If words matter, why not use the correct one? The resistance maybe?

https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-racist-tweets-put-us-120200708.html

Nola's mini-me.   

[TitanTiger 20,472]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

There is a resolution in the House at this time condemning Trump’s Xenophobic tweet.  The resolution only says xenophobic tweet, not racist tweet.  It’s interesting that the yahoo title has racist in it but not the resolution.  Hmmm  If we have this words that narrowly describe phobias then why not use them in stead of lumping two similar ideas together.

You said it in your first sentence “assume”, you assume things when it is beneficial to your believe and racism is a much harsher word than being xenophobic.  If words matter, why not use the correct one? The resistance maybe?

https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-racist-tweets-put-us-120200708.html

You're overthinking it.  What politicians do or call something when they are playing political strategy and what something is are often two different things.

[AuCivilEng1 10,999]

1 hour ago, toddc said:

Now you’re trying to imply that I am racist! Good grief, I’m sickened by you! I’m not ever replying to you again!! This is why you can’t have a different opinion and express it without someone like you making a backhanded attempt to call someone you know nothing about racist!

What? I didn’t imply that you’re racist. I made it a point to say that I thought you were being willfully ignorant. I still think that. But if you aren’t being willfully ignorant, you simply just don’t care that he said what he said (it doesn’t matter to you, because you think he’s justified in those comments/agree with him that they should go back to their “countries”). Nothing I said would indicate that I think that you’re a racist. But it’s one of the two. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

11 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Quit being so damn sensitive.

And your definition of racism isn't the only one to go by and is not limited to such a narrow scope.  It is indeed racist to assume, for instance, that one is not a "real" American or a natural born American simply because they aren't white or don't have "regular" sounding names...an assumption he would never make (and has never made by the way) about white politicians and critics.  Other (white) Democrats have been every bit as critical in the past such as Pelosi, Warren, Biden, and others but never any remarks about how they should go back to their own countries and fix them first before telling "us" how to fix the US.

 

I’m not being sensitive. Follow the rules or go to the other forum.

Correct . My definition of racism isn’t the only one to go by, nor am I acting like it is. The same cannot be said of you and your counterparts. That is precisely the issue. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

53 minutes ago, homersapien said:

 

Nola, you may find it entertaining to parse Trump's  racist comments for actual racism (as you would define it) but you are pissing into the wind.  It's dumb.  Insultingly dumb.

You are not "challenging" anyone, you are simply making a fool of yourself.

 

That’s the problem. Anyone who disagrees with you is “simply making a fool” of themselves. This forum isn’t for you. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

45 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Good grief Nola.  I know we don't align politically, but you aren't stupid. 

Trump is pandering to less educated, fearful white people who feel threatened by people of color, especially as they increase proportionally .  He is reinforcing the idea that only white people are legitimate Americans while people of color are not - having originated from somewhere else.  (As if we all didn't originate from somewhere else.)

That's the subliminal message behind "Make America Great Again" (as back when white people had an undisputed majority and most colored people didn't even have the right to vote.)  That's exactly why he spent so much effort to imply Obama - as a black person - was illegitimate.

White Nationalism (aka as racism) is the foundation of his political appeal.

If you agree with him, just say so.  But stop weaseling about whether or not is meets some mythical minimum standard defining racism. It's demeaning.

 

Your inability to engage with a potential differing point of view is remarkable. 

It is absurd that you conclude I agree with Trump, or insinuate as much, in this instance on the basis of not endorsing your opinion on the matter. My goodness Homer. Do better. 

That someone doesn’t attribute racism in this matter does not demonstrate they agree with him......

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

11 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I understand what you’re saying, but when you try to call it anything other than what it is, it gives the appearance that you’re defending him.

I think that by him telling them to go back to the countries they came from, he trying to convey a message that they don’t naturally belong in “his America”. So I would say that he’s perceiving his race as being superior, because the only reason he thinks they are from different countries is because they aren’t white, with traditionally white names.

Thank you for at least articulating your position. Seriously. Others in this thread should take note.

Though I would counter with the general proposition that a person who does not adhere or share your view isn’t, by default, defending Trump; nor should that inference logically be drawn.

Again, it was ill-advised, hurtful, and offensive to many. It was clearly stereotyping. But just because I don’t call it blatant racism doesn’t not mean I am attacking you or defending him.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

11 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I’m not being sensitive. Follow the rules or go to the other forum.

Yes you are. And I am following the rules. Stay in your lane. 
 

11 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Correct . My definition of racism isn’t the only one to go by, nor am I acting like it is. The same cannot be said of you and your counterparts. That is precisely the issue. 

This is just dumb. Racism is not limited to the definition you gave. And trumps statements fit within the broader, well understood definition of racism. We are done straining at gnats over this

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Yes you are. And I am following the rules. Stay in your lane.

No, I’m not. 

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

This is just dumb. Racism is not limited to the definition you gave. And trumps statements fit within the broader, well understood definition of racism. We are done straining at gnats over this

I never said racism was limited to the definition I gave. Wrong, the statements  fit into your definition of racism. Unfortunately, you’re not the arbiter of its scope. Why this triggers you is beyond me.