ESPN'S SEC West Preview

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

18 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I think Auburn would fare worse than Clemson with Clemson's schedule and I think Clemson would fare better than Auburn with Auburn's schedule. Beyond that, I don't know.

If you're responding to my mention of Clemson being the best program in the sport, I would not have said that before their beatdown of bama in the title game. Even then I might not have planted that flag, if not for the fact that they beat them just 2 years before. And then there's this recruiting class they're building. Everything is clicking there. But I'm not married to the argument. 

If you're responding to my mention of Bryant's success there, it's mainly anecdotal. But there's a lot to be said for 1) experience and 2) tasting success. 

Clemson has proven to be every bit as good of a program as UA the past 3 seasons, I'm really not sure how anyone can argue this.  I'm all ears though.  They are playing the same recruiting games as UA and bringing in incredible recruits.  They have some of the best facilities in the country and consistently field one of the best coaching staffs.  They have built exactly what AU had a chance to build after 2010 but didn't.

 

[DAG 33,965]

6 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Clemson has proven to be every bit as good of a program as UA the past 3 seasons, I'm really not sure how anyone can argue this.  I'm all ears though.  They are playing the same recruiting games as UA and bringing in incredible recruits.  They have some of the best facilities in the country and consistently field one of the best coaching staffs.  They have built exactly what AU had a chance to build after 2010 but didn't.

 

We had a huge debate about this a few weeks ago. There have been few who have argued against it FYI. 

[triangletiger 1,599]

54 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I think Auburn would fare worse than Clemson with Clemson's schedule and I think Clemson would fare better than Auburn with Auburn's schedule. Beyond that, I don't know.

If you're responding to my mention of Clemson being the best program in the sport, I would not have said that before their beatdown of bama in the title game. Even then I might not have planted that flag, if not for the fact that they beat them just 2 years before. And then there's this recruiting class they're building. Everything is clicking there. But I'm not married to the argument. 

If you're responding to my mention of Bryant's success there, it's mainly anecdotal. But there's a lot to be said for 1) experience and 2) tasting success. 

I take it that you don't have much hope that Malzahn can get us to that level.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, triangletiger said:

I take it that you don't have much hope that Malzahn can get us to that level.

To Clemson's level? Nope. And that's actually not a shot at Gus because I don't think there are 3 coaches in the country in any given year that could do what Dabo is doing. 

I do think that we can and should do better than we have. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

10 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

I take it that you don't have much hope that Malzahn can get us to that level.

Not really. The one asterisk, is if Gus still evolving into a top level HC?

B/c he was not groomed at the college level like Swinney did, he only has the 3 years at AU as an AC and the last 6 as our HC in the tough SEC. Swinney had 12 years of grooming at the college level at Alabama and then Clemson.

Swinney has won at least 10+ games over the last 7-8 years. He has played in the NC 3-4 years, winning 2. He is 6-2  in bowl games since he started winning 10+ games, so even when he is not have the greatest years, he still wins his bowl games. His one asterisk, is he is in a easier conference. BUT, what he has done is elevate his consistency, and gotten to that NCG 3 out of the last 4 beating quality teams.

GM has been just too inconsistent, mostly bc of his offenses, and usage of his QBs and RBs, and avg OL recruiting. 

[Sizzle 3,909]

38 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

To Clemson's level? Nope. And that's actually not a shot at Gus because I don't think there are 3 coaches in the country in any given year that could do what Dabo is doing. 

I do think that we can and should do better than we have. 

Yeah we definitely should be better and Clemson is obviously building a dynasty but it does help that they’re in the ACC. I mean their toughest opponent this year is Texas a&m a team we play every year and their not even the toughest team in our own division 

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

To Clemson's level? Nope. And that's actually not a shot at Gus because I don't think there are 3 coaches in the country in any given year that could do what Dabo is doing. 

I do think that we can and should do better than we have. 

Agreed.  At a minimum, we have to stop losing the ones we're supposed to win.  (Of course, Tuberville had trouble in this area too.)

[triangletiger 1,599]

57 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

Not really. The one asterisk, is if Gus still evolving into a top level HC?

B/c he was not groomed at the college level like Swinney did, he only has the 3 years at AU as an AC and the last 6 as our HC in the tough SEC. Swinney had 12 years of grooming at the college level at Alabama and then Clemson.

Swinney has won at least 10+ games over the last 7-8 years. He has played in the NC 3-4 years, winning 2. He is 6-2  in bowl games since he started winning 10+ games, so even when he is not have the greatest years, he still wins his bowl games. His one asterisk, is he is in a easier conference. BUT, what he has done is elevate his consistency, and gotten to that NCG 3 out of the last 4 beating quality teams.

GM has been just too inconsistent, mostly bc of his offenses, and usage of his QBs and RBs, and avg OL recruiting. 

It is my hope that Gus is still growing as a HC on the college level.  He's had six years to figure it out; it's time to harvest the benefit of sticking with him through the growing pains.

[gr82be 14,423]

33 minutes ago, Sizzle said:

Yeah we definitely should be better and Clemson is obviously building a dynasty but it does help that they’re in the ACC. I mean their toughest opponent this year is Texas a&m a team we play every year and their not even the toughest team in our own division 

And they don't even have to play Duke this year. What luck. 

[gr82be 14,423]

23 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

It is my hope that Gus is still growing as a HC on the college level.  He's had six years to figure it out; it's time to harvest the benefit of sticking with him through the growing pains.

Yep, I know it's been said before but playing for a NC in his first season did as much harm as anything with fan expectations. It gave an unrealistic hope to us and didn't help Gus either. It was the dangling carrot and the stick seems like it has gotten longer. I just wish he'd loosen up and have fun this year with the play calls. He's capable of beating anyone but that includes himself unfortunately. 

[GwillMac6 20,666]

2 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Not really. The one asterisk, is if Gus still evolving into a top level HC?

B/c he was not groomed at the college level like Swinney did, he only has the 3 years at AU as an AC and the last 6 as our HC in the tough SEC. Swinney had 12 years of grooming at the college level at Alabama and then Clemson.

Swinney has won at least 10+ games over the last 7-8 years. He has played in the NC 3-4 years, winning 2. He is 6-2  in bowl games since he started winning 10+ games, so even when he is not have the greatest years, he still wins his bowl games. His one asterisk, is he is in a easier conference. BUT, what he has done is elevate his consistency, and gotten to that NCG 3 out of the last 4 beating quality teams.

GM has been just too inconsistent, mostly bc of his offenses, and usage of his QBs and RBs, and avg OL recruiting. 

Besides Stallings he was "groomed" under Mike Dubose and Tommy Bowden and never once called plays before. Not exactly a who's who list of great mentors. Certainly not that much worse if any of Gus mentors being Houston Nutt, Todd Graham and the Chiz. It is a huge inexact science. Some guys either have IT or do not. And it is painfully obvious by now which category our coach falls under. You know pretty quickly if your Head Coach is going to be one of the top coaches in the business. We checked the yes box for Pearl and the No box for Malzahn.

[DAG 33,965]

7 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Besides Stallings he was "groomed" under Mike Dubose and Tommy Bowden and never once called plays before. Not exactly a who's who list of great mentors. Certainly not that much worse if any then Gus mentors being Houston Nutt, Todd Graham and the Chiz. It is a huge inexact science. Some guys either have IT or do not. And it is painfully obvious by now which category our coach falls under. You know pretty quickly if your Head Coach is going to be one of the top coaches in the business. We checked the yes box for Pearl and the No box for Malzahn.

I was hear this and I think who mentored Urban Meyer or Dabo? 

[GwillMac6 20,666]

21 minutes ago, DAG said:

I was hear this and I think who mentored Urban Meyer or Dabo? 

And depending on what you think of Harbaugh the college coach add him to the list as well when it comes to him having no mentors of note that is worth a damn. Because even if he has been a slight disappointment as a college coach he was still a really freaking good almost great NFL coach. Before he got his first head coaching job at the University of San Diego he was mentored under THE GREAT (lol yah right) Bill Callahan when Harbaugh was the QB coach of the Raiders for all of 1 season. Yup that is it. That is all the coaching experience he had before he became a Head Coach at the college level.

[oracle79 3,569]

4 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Yup that is it. That is all the coaching experience he had before he became a Head Coach at the college level.

Agree with you a lot, but are you kidding?

5th year senior QB at Michigan under Bo Schembechler.  Grew up under dad Jack Harbaugh who coached about 40 plus years.  14 years as an NFL QB and selected to Pro Bowl in 1995. Granted he didn't go the traditional coaches route, but don't think he hasn't been exposed to EXCELLENT coaching in his experience as a player.

Improved University of San Diego and won 11 games back to back in his last two years.

Improved the win total at Stanford each year to win 12 in his last season there.

He's won 10 games in 3 of his 4 seasons at Michigan.  Granted if he doesn't beat OSU soon, he may not last, but don't compare his resume with Gus or Dabo.  You don't have to be an assistant under a great coach to get knowledge from great coaches you played for or grew up under.

[GwillMac6 20,666]

19 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Agree with you a lot, but are you kidding?

5th year senior QB at Michigan under Bo Schembechler.  Grew up under dad Jack Harbaugh who coached about 40 plus years.  14 years as an NFL QB and selected to Pro Bowl in 1995. Granted he didn't go the traditional coaches route, but don't think he hasn't been exposed to EXCELLENT coaching in his experience as a player.

Improved University of San Diego and won 11 games back to back in his last two years.

Improved the win total at Stanford each year to win 12 in his last season there.

He's won 10 games in 3 of his 4 seasons at Michigan.  Granted if he doesn't beat OSU soon, he may not last, but don't compare his resume with Gus or Dabo.  You don't have to be an assistant under a great coach to get knowledge from great coaches you played for or grew up under.

lol ughhhhhhhh I mean facts are fact He had 1 year of being a traditional assistant coach before he became a college head coach. What is wrong with what I was saying? We were not talking about what experience he gained as a player. Just who all he "learned" under before he became a Head Coach when he was a assistant. I am with you. I think Harbaugh is a boss and people underrate him and he has had three ten win seasons in 4 years at Michigan so far. But his resume and who he worked under as a assistant before he became a Head Coach is absolutely comparable to Gus and Dabo. We are not factoring in who all people learned under when they were just a player. That was not a part of the discussion. 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

On 7/15/2019 at 2:59 PM, 80Tiger said:

Yes all losses are on Gus because he is the head coach but we lost TN because our defense couldn’t stop the TN passing game and in The MSU game we couldn’t stop their QB from running it down our throat. Defense had a hand in losing the LSU game with the multiple PI we had down the stretch.

I’m pretty sure that is what we pay him 49 million for, to win ballgames. When his team takes a day off on the field it’s on him. Same as when he doesn’t have a plan to win with, or he fails to recruit the needed players. How hard is it to understand that at 49 million he should be making the impossible happen daily. There are several billion folks that would like to have his job for just one day. Folks need to stop acting like we shouldn’t expect Gus to win every game. He was the one that pushed for top coaching pay. If he didn’t want to produce top results then he should have taken a job at a local high school, where he would be much more suited for. Folks constantly complaining about  fans not happy with Gus need to understand exactly how much he makes. If you paid a roofer $100000 to do you roof, would you be ok with just a couple of leaks? SMH

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

4 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

I’m pretty sure that is what we pay him 49 million for, to win ballgames. When his team takes a day off on the field it’s on him. Same as when he doesn’t have a plan to win with, or he fails to recruit the needed players. How hard is it to understand that at 49 million he should be making the impossible happen daily. There are several billion folks that would like to have his job for just one day. Folks need to stop acting like we shouldn’t expect Gus to win every game. He was the one that pushed for top coaching pay. If he didn’t want to produce top results then he should have taken a job at a local high school, where he would be much more suited for. Folks constantly complaining about  fans not happy with Gus need to understand exactly how much he makes. If you paid a roofer $100000 to do you roof, would you be ok with just a couple of leaks? SMH

You use your tongue prettier than a $20 whore.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,656]

18 hours ago, DAG said:

Bad QBs?

James Franklin was a four star QB out of Texas - Undrafted

Drew Lock was a four Star QB - drafted. 

How are they lesser QBs? 

Nick Marshall and JF3 was the lowest rated QBs Gus recruited. 

I do agree that we do have a Jackal/Hyde situation though. 

I said between, referring to Mauk and Berkstresser primarily. You compare those to JF3 or Jeremy Johnson

[DAG 33,965]

9 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I said between, referring to Mauk and Berkstresser primarily. You compare those to JF3 or Jeremy Johnson

And JF3 was a 3 star QB. He was recruited by Jimbo Fisher, who many refer to a God around here, and he couldn’t coach him to be a QB. Gus took a chance and failed also. And guess what? He goes to Lane Kiffin and is a WR. Get real

Jeremy Johnson is a whole different story. 

Mauk was a 4 star recruit- when is that considered a lesser QB. 

Berkstresser stats were God awful. 49 completion percentage. 5 tds - 7 interceptions 

We need to start having a fact check around here. 

[abw0004 10,110]

32 minutes ago, DAG said:

 He was recruited by Jimbo Fisher, who many refer to a God around here, and he couldn’t coach him to be a QB.

I will never understand that.  Without Winston, what would he or FSU have become?  That article posted several weeks ago on him was very insightful I think.

[DAG 33,965]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

I will never understand that.  Without Winston, what would he or FSU have become?  That article posted several weeks ago on him was very insightful I think.

I need to find this article for sure . It is interesting the parallels him and Gus have , especially the way he left FSU. Of course, you can always throw in Gus face that he won the NC , facing him , but I found it interesting that Gus and co found a way to defeat the aggies when everyone was counting them out. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

lol ughhhhhhhh I mean facts are fact He had 1 year of being a traditional assistant coach before he became a college head coach. What is wrong with what I was saying? We were not talking about what experience he gained as a player. Just who all he "learned" under before he became a Head Coach when he was a assistant. I am with you. I think Harbaugh is a boss and people underrate him and he has had three ten win seasons in 4 years at Michigan so far. But his resume and who he worked under as a assistant before he became a Head Coach is absolutely comparable to Gus and Dabo. We are not factoring in who all people learned under when they were just a player. That was not a part of the discussion. 

Fyi Harbaugh interned under his dad for 7 years at WKU. Obviously that's not big time coaching experience but between stuff like that and his brother also being an NFL coach, it's clear to me that the Harbaugh boys were both born- to your point- and bred- to the grooming point- to be coaches. 

Definitely agree that pedigree isn't the end-all be all, but if you survey the entire landscape of big time football, college and pro, I'd venture a guess that most guys learned from somebody else. 

And Urban Meyer's an interesting one. Dude obviously knows how to recruit a team and win big like few others, but he doesn't seem to have a very good grasp on sustainable football programs, does he? So maybe some mentorship along the line would have helped. Just a thought.

As for Gus, I wonder if grooming or mentorship would have done him any good. I do feel that a lack of external input is the biggest thing holding him back, but there's nothing stopping him from going out and learning from other sources now and he chooses not to do it. And that is probably the biggest issue with him, if I had to guess. 

[abw0004 10,110]

Just now, DAG said:

I need to find this article for sure . It is interesting the parallels him and Gus have , especially the way he left FSU. Of course, you can always throw in Gus face that he won the NC , facing him , but I found it interesting that Gus and co found a way to defeat the aggies when everyone was counting them out. 

 

[DAG 33,965]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

 

Thank you buddy. Funny you bring up Jameis Winston btw. If you look at his stats from his freshman to sophomore year, he regressed . Way more attempts slightly lower completion percentage , far less TDS, an increase in interceptions and less total yards. Still a quality player nonetheless. 

[GwillMac6 20,666]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Fyi Harbaugh interned under his dad for 7 years at WKU. Obviously that's not big time coaching experience but between stuff like that and his brother also being an NFL coach, it's clear to me that the Harbaugh boys were both born- to your point- and bred- to the grooming point- to be coaches. 

Definitely agree that pedigree isn't the end-all be all, but if you survey the entire landscape of big time football, college and pro, I'd venture a guess that most guys learned from somebody else. 

And Urban Meyer's an interesting one. Dude obviously knows how to recruit a team and win big like few others, but he doesn't seem to have a very good grasp on sustainable football programs, does he? So maybe some mentorship along the line would have helped. Just a thought.

As for Gus, I wonder if grooming or mentorship would have done him any good. I do feel that a lack of external input is the biggest thing holding him back, but there's nothing stopping him from going out and learning from other sources now and he chooses not to do it. And that is probably the biggest issue with him, if I had to guess. 

What is most crazy to me is he was a intern under his dad at WKU his last 7 years of his playing career. That is just nuts to me. Never heard anything like it. John is another interesting case to me. He was only a special teams coordinator in the NFL before he became Head Coach. That is just wild. IDK if anyone else has gone from special teams coach to Head Coach without any other steps in the NFL.