Past Buck/Pass Rush Recruiting & Development

[GwillMac6 20,607]

3 hours ago, dyehardfanAU said:

If we land both I'll definitely agree with the both of you.  Just pulling in 1 of the 2 would be good but not great at the position, imo.  It's one of our biggest needs, again imo.

Not having a consistent pass rush is what has held us back from being a truly great defense. We were really good last season but we would of been great with a better pass rush.

[CameronCrazy 1,058]

15 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Not having a consistent pass rush is what has held us back from being a truly great defense. We were really good last season but we would of been great with a better pass rush.

I couldn’t agree more - Jeff Holland went undrafted in the NFL draft. He made the wrong decision. He should have come back last year, and that would have made us an elite defense

[toddc 13,194]

17 minutes ago, CameronCrazy said:

I couldn’t agree more - Jeff Holland went undrafted in the NFL draft. He made the wrong decision. He should have come back last year, and that would have made us an elite defense

Saw him playing some in the Hall of Fame game last Thursday.

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 hours ago, CameronCrazy said:

I couldn’t agree more - Jeff Holland went undrafted in the NFL draft. He made the wrong decision. He should have come back last year, and that would have made us an elite defense

It was my understanding that Holland didn't get drafted because of his measurables. How was coming back for another year going to change that? 

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It was my understanding that Holland didn't get drafted because of his measurables

He could’ve gotten drafted, his measurables notwithstanding. He just wouldn’t have been a high round guy.  

[ellitor 33,062]

48 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It was my understanding that Holland didn't get drafted because of his measurables. How was coming back for another year going to change that? 

FWIW Garner told him he wasn't ready in his opinion so I think him not getting drafted was about more than him being a tweener.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

FWIW Garner told him he wasn't ready in his opinion so I think him not getting drafted was about more than him being a tweener.

He had a decent but not exceptional career at AU.  He would've been a good backup if we'd have recruited someone(s) better at the position.

[ellitor 33,062]

53 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

He would've been a good backup if we'd have recruited someone(s) better at the position.

This makes no sense. He was Lawson's back a good bit of his time at AU.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, ellitor said:

This makes no sense. He was Lawson's back a good bit of his time at AU.

I think he's saying that Holland would've stayed a backup for his entire career if we'd recruited better. While that is technically and literally true- Carl Lawson would've been a career backup if we'd recruited players better than Carl Lawson- I don't agree with his assessment of Holland. 

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I think he's saying that Holland would've stayed a backup for his entire career if we'd recruited better. While that is technically and literally true- Carl Lawson would've been a career backup if we'd recruited players better than Carl Lawson- I don't agree with his assessment of Holland. 

 

Both were good but neither was elite. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, dyehardfanAU said:

Both were good but neither was elite. 

I agree with that. With Lawson, I think injuries had a lot to do with it. But I agree that he didn't give us elite production and actually predicted we'd get better after he left. Holland *did* give us that production and he was a home run of a man crush for me that year, but I also acknowledge that he benefited a lot from a great push from our interior guys, a monster setting the edge, and a defensive backfield that made a lot of QBs hold the ball longer than they wanted to. 

He was far better than what we got last year, but he wasn't Dee Ford. I can acknowledge that much. 

 

[ellitor 33,062]

8 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Both were good but neither was elite. 

 

Lawson would have been elite had his college career not been injury plagued. He was a 5* & the #1 ranked weakside end (which is a Buck for us) coming out of HS for a reason.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, ellitor said:

Lawson would have been elite had his college career not been injury plagued. He was a 5* & the #1 ranked weakside end (which is a Buck for us) coming out of HS for a reason.

So was Cowart 

Jk. Lawson's rookie year with Cincinnati proved that he is elite. And, really, his freshman year with us was a sign of what should have been. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

So was Cowart 

Jk. Lawson's rookie year with Cincinnati proved that he is elite. And, really, his freshman year with us was a sign of what should have been. 

They pretty much had the exact same college career.

Carl Laswon: 

Jeff Holland:

I'll concede that both had injury issues but both were Top 8 WDE recruits and both under performed.  I'm not personally slighting either of these guys, just pointing out that they were both evalutation misses to a degree when compared to their performance on the field at Auburn.  This is my opinion, YMMV.

Cowart was the biggest evaluation miss I can remember in recent AU history.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Will have to agree to disagree, especially since this is about to get flipped over to a "WDE evaluation and development" thread, lol. I respect your position.

I really hope we pull Olujari and/or Webb. 

[ellitor 33,062]

12 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Cowart was the biggest evaluation miss I can remember in recent AU history.

He wasn't an evaluation miss. He just wasn't ready mentally to put in the work need to transition from an elite high school recruit to an elite college football player.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

9 minutes ago, ellitor said:

 He just wasn't ready mentally to put in the work need to transition from an elite high school recruit to an elite college football player.

Hence evaluation miss.  Evaluation is, or should be, as much about the psychology of the player as their athleticism.

To get back on track I really hope we can land both Olujari and Webb to increase our odds that at least one is what we need at the position.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

I think those stats are attributed to the wrong guys. Lawson played in 2013, not Holland. 

[ellitor 33,062]

23 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Hence evaluation miss

Nope. Something like that is nearly impossible to eval while a recruit is in high school. Evals cover raw talent & general character & Cowart checked both boxes.

25 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Evaluation is, or should be, as much about the psychology of the player as their athleticism.

Again, nearly impossible to assertatin during the recruiting process given the limitations the NCAA places on the recruiting process & the relationships.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

I think those stats are attributed to the wrong guys. Lawson played in 2013, not Holland. 

Yup, but they did ultimately support his point which was that each gave us 9 1/2 sacks their last year. (Holland had more total tackles in 2 more games. Lawson had more TFLs in 2 fewer.)

Hell., if E is still in on this, then I'll say one more thing. Lawson's freshman stats- along with, again, his NFL rookie stats- do suggest that he was what we thought. I'll never forget what he did in the IB as a freshman. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

45 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

I think those stats are attributed to the wrong guys. Lawson played in 2013, not Holland. 

Thank you, I'll correct my post.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

@McLoofus, you and me both. The play he made coming down the line and stonewalling Yeldon on fourth down was an amazing play. 

[Howard Roark 195]

4 hours ago, ellitor said:

He wasn't an evaluation miss. He just wasn't ready mentally to put in the work need to transition from an elite high school recruit to an elite college football player.

I believe Cowart said pretty much the same recently.  BTW: Which position do you think is the toughest to evaluate in HS?  I think DT.  It almost impossible to tell which ones will the do the work necessary to excel when so many got by on sheer size prior to college. 

[ellitor 33,062]

28 minutes ago, Howard Roark said:

Which position do you think is the toughest to evaluate in HS?

OL hands down.

[Cardin Drake 1,809]

14 minutes ago, ellitor said:

OL hands down.

For sure. That's why it's good to have numbers.  There aren't enough athletic ones to go around, and it does make sense to covert defensive lineman if they aren't making it on the defense.  Low 3 star d lineman are still more athletic than most O linemen.