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Beaker

Teach me - 3 questions

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Serious questions, not being sarcastic:

1.  What do we gain by not having a pass catching TE (or using ours for that)?  Not having the TE as a outlet for Bo seems like we are taking away one of his tools.  If Bo rolls out so well, why do we need the TE to stay in and block(what seems like every play)?   Yes I did see Bo running around due to crazy pressure, which seems like a great argument for some 2-5 yd TE routes.  Jason Whitten will go the HOF, as he has perfected this.  

2.  Why did we not have RB by committee last night?  Joiner sure could have helped a little I feel when running  between the tackles or maybe give DJ Williams some carries after Boobie was just plain gassed!   I think we need to use 3 backs and work out a scheme.  Ronnie and Caddy made it work fairly well, didn't they?    (ok, a little sarcasm).

3.  To me, it seemed like we got real predictable again on 1st and 2nd down, thus put unrealistic pressure on Bo to make a 3rd down conversion.  Is that my intolerance for Gus ( as a playcaller ) tainting my judgment, or were we predictable again?  

 

WDE and I will hang up and listen to your answer.

 

Edited by Beaker
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4 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Serious questions, not being sarcastic:

1.  What do we gain by not having a pass catching TE (or using ours for that)?  Not having the TE as a outlet for Bo seems like we are taking away one of his tools.  If Bo rolls out so well, why do we need the TE to stay in and block(what seems like every play)?   Yes I did see Bo running around due to crazy pressure, which seems like a great argument for some 2-5 yd TE routes.  Jason Whitten will go the HOF, as he has perfected this.  

2.  Why did we not have RB by committee last night?  Joiner sure could have helped a little I feel when running  between the tackles or maybe give DJ Williams some carries after Boobie was just plain gassed!   I think we need to use 3 backs and work out a scheme.  Ronnie and Caddy made it work fairly well, didn't they?    (ok, a little sarcasm).

3.  To me, it seemed like we got real predictable again on 1st and 2nd down, thus put unrealistic pressure on Bo to make a 3rd down conversion.  Is that intolerance for Gus tainting my judgment, or is that real?  

 

WDE and I will hang up and listen to your answer.

 

I don't know why we don't use tight end more but Bo had wr's open all night in the middle of the field. He's a freshman though so in time he'll get more comfortable I imagine. Also too I'd say 50% of his running came from himself. He seems to be more comfortable running outside as opposed to stepping up and setting up a block. Once again that comes with experience. 

As far as backs you go with the hot guy. Now when he's dog tired I think you put somebody else out there. If I'm not mistaken caddy and Ronnie only had one year where they were both healthy

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30 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Serious questions, not being sarcastic:

1.  What do we gain by not having a pass catching TE (or using ours for that)?  Not having the TE as a outlet for Bo seems like we are taking away one of his tools.  If Bo rolls out so well, why do we need the TE to stay in and block(what seems like every play)?   Yes I did see Bo running around due to crazy pressure, which seems like a great argument for some 2-5 yd TE routes.  Jason Whitten will go the HOF, as he has perfected this.  

2.  Why did we not have RB by committee last night?  Joiner sure could have helped a little I feel when running  between the tackles or maybe give DJ Williams some carries after Boobie was just plain gassed!   I think we need to use 3 backs and work out a scheme.  Ronnie and Caddy made it work fairly well, didn't they?    (ok, a little sarcasm).

3.  To me, it seemed like we got real predictable again on 1st and 2nd down, thus put unrealistic pressure on Bo to make a 3rd down conversion.  Is that my intolerance for Gus ( as a playcaller ) tainting my judgment, or were we predictable again?  

 

WDE and I will hang up and listen to your answer.

 

All good and reasonably questions.

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36 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Serious questions, not being sarcastic:

1.  What do we gain by not having a pass catching TE (or using ours for that)?  Not having the TE as a outlet for Bo seems like we are taking away one of his tools.  If Bo rolls out so well, why do we need the TE to stay in and block(what seems like every play)?   Yes I did see Bo running around due to crazy pressure, which seems like a great argument for some 2-5 yd TE routes.  Jason Whitten will go the HOF, as he has perfected this.  

2.  Why did we not have RB by committee last night?  Joiner sure could have helped a little I feel when running  between the tackles or maybe give DJ Williams some carries after Boobie was just plain gassed!   I think we need to use 3 backs and work out a scheme.  Ronnie and Caddy made it work fairly well, didn't they?    (ok, a little sarcasm).

3.  To me, it seemed like we got real predictable again on 1st and 2nd down, thus put unrealistic pressure on Bo to make a 3rd down conversion.  Is that my intolerance for Gus ( as a playcaller ) tainting my judgment, or were we predictable again?  

 

WDE and I will hang up and listen to your answer.

 

1. Well, saying we didn't have a pass catching TE is a bit of a misnomer since Sal Cannela had a few catches. I know he's listed as a WR, but he's built more like a TE, and he was staying in as the H-back on plays we targeted him. And we also targeted Spencer Nigh on one play, as well.

That said, I would like to see more use of the traditional tight end role, and I feel like we have a guy in Jay Jay Wilson who can fit that mold. It may be that, since Gus is not used to using the TE like that, he was just being cautious in the first game and we'll see more of it during the next two against inferior competition (where Malzahn can get more of an idea about what works and what doesn't), but certainly don't bank on that.

2. Well, we did use three primary running backs in Boobee, Martin, and Shivers, even though Martin only saw one series and Shivers saw only a few carries. I think that in the end, Gus reverted to his normal approach of riding one RB when he was trying to make the comeback. Since Whitlow was rolling well, Malzahn just stuck with him down the stretch, rather than risking the loss of momentum by putting in someone different.

3. Yes and no. We ran the ball a great deal on first and second down, and even with the tricks we threw in, that still got predictable. The time Bo ran on the read option and then handed off on the next play was predictable, because he ran to establish the threat of him running and then came right back and gave it to the RB on what looked like a designed hand off.

However, a lot of that is getting fed up with Gus as a play caller, because you want to run the ball a lot with a true freshman at QB, and there are only so many ways to run the ball without becoming predictable. I would have liked to have seen more of the zone read with Bo keeping it, and I would have liked to have seen more passing on early downs to keep from being predictable, but again, that was just conservative play calling. I suspect that as the season goes along, we'll see less predictability on early downs.

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What we did in the second half was vintage CGM and it got us a win! 

I’m good with it!

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Gus has running back by committee every year. He runs the no. 1 until he's hurt and then the no. 2 steps in until no.1 is healthy enough to get back on the field w/o crutches. 

Edited by tiger88
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We did rotate the RBs a good bit in the 1st half. Boobee got hot and we rolled with the hot hand like cole said. Also, it's hard to fault Gus IMO for relying more on Boobee in those clutch moments since he's proven to be able to do-it-all and can stay on the field for all downs, which was important while we were running pace. 

Also, earlier in the game they showed a shot of Caddy and Gus working on substitutions and it looked to me like Caddy was a tad irritated with the constant switching and/or late decisions to switch out RBs. 

I'd rather see the guys get a whole series rather than just a play or two which I'd think is Caddy's idea of subbing.

Now obviously being too tired and needing a breather is a a different story. Only thing I can guess is Gus decided wildcat before anyone on the sideline knew Boobee was asking to come out. Boobee could have laid down and got the injury break if he really needed it to save wasting a TO in that situation.

Edited by ValleyTiger
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1 hour ago, ValleyTiger said:

 

Also, earlier in the game they showed a shot of Caddy and Gus working on substitutions and it looked to me like Caddy was a tad irritated with the constant switching and/or late decisions to switch out RBs. 

I'd rather see the guys get a whole series rather than just a play or two which I'd think is Caddy's idea of subbing.

 

Great insight.   I was at the game, thus certainly would not see that.  

 

Thanks, I understand the hot-hand approach and really do get it.  That sting of the 2017 SECG is still raw with me - no depth, a worn-out/injured KJ, not trusting others, etc.   My pain heals slowly.  Have I mentioned losing to FSU in 2013 lately?  Well, sit down and lend me your ear - 

haha, thanks for your insight

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Watch the A-day game and the 5-7 yard digs were absent last night. So we're the releases and passes to our backs and TE. We should've used them to suck in the D and hit them long.

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6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Watch the A-day game and the 5-7 yard digs were absent last night. So we're the releases and passes to our backs and TE. We should've used them to suck in the D and hit them long.

Yes, yes, yes; as a coach, how does this happen?    Those seem like critical tools to a young freshman QB.  Why remove such?

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12 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Watch the A-day game and the 5-7 yard digs were absent last night. So we're the releases and passes to our backs and TE. We should've used them to suck in the D and hit them long.

It frustrates me to no end why we never seem to use that in games.....

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10 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Watch the A-day game and the 5-7 yard digs were absent last night. So we're the releases and passes to our backs and TE. We should've used them to suck in the D and hit them long.

Yup, or some hitch routes on that off coverage. Believe he hit McClain on a few of those in the spring game as well.

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Seems like Gus just doesn't have it in him anymore to ride different guys out for an entire series. He might've given Shivers one straight up run, the others were like sweeps featuring a motion as window dressing. I think he needs to use him like Grant in the Wazzu game, an inside guy that can buck to the outside. Kam, IDK. You think DJ would get some touches at some point this year since he gives you essentially the same thing our guy Boob does. While Shivers may be better,  I could see DJ being the #2 by game 10 just due to the physical similarities

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Just read birds post above- stop in go, sluggo, beautiful routes and highlights when you set em up. 

2. Kind of piggybacking on what others have said about RB: 1)you go woth the hot hand (2) especially with a true freshman you need a RB that knows his blocking assignments and can actually block (3) when we sub players the defense is allowed to sub, if we dont, they cant. So when we have a clear advantage we’re gonna stick with it and take advantage. 

1. On the TEs thing: I thought we used the tight ends fairly well last night. We dont run a pro style offense and the gronks and whittens of the world are few and far between. I do hope we use Canella more this year, but Gus also prefers and H- back which is a hybrid RB, FB, TE. Whoever that guy turns out to be will get carries, blocking assigments, and catch some passes (tough job). 

3. Gus saw a weakness in their run stopping ability and went with it. After your frosh QB threw two pics in the first half, I cant blame him for leaning on the run game in the 2H. It opened up guys later and forced the Oregon D to adjust. 

I think Gus is learning to call plays again. We all know he got stuck in a doo-loop a few years back where the Read-Option was his only play call. He’s admitted that and self- reflected (his words) and I think hes growing. I also think THAT is why he went so tricky/pass heavy in the first half. I think he wanted to make himself do something different even though it was probably best for him to run it. 

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Your first question genuinely blows my mind. I don't believe there is any benefit to not utilize an athletic big guy, especially with our red zone woes. Trey Burton for Chicago is an excellent example of what we could be doing. He was a big QB turned TE. Very athletic and knows his way around the field. 

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From my understanding of it, the H-back takes the place of a TE and is basically a combination of TE & FB. What is the advantage of an H-back over a TE? Not sure, but I think maybe since the H-back doesn´t line up on the line of scrimmage they can shift before the snap? Maybe someone with more technical knowledge of football can explain this because I have also wondered about it myself.

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29 minutes ago, Dan-0 said:

From my understanding of it, the H-back takes the place of a TE and is basically a combination of TE & FB. What is the advantage of an H-back over a TE? Not sure, but I think maybe since the H-back doesn´t line up on the line of scrimmage they can shift before the snap? Maybe someone with more technical knowledge of football can explain this because I have also wondered about it myself.

One of the main advantages in Gus's system is that the H, or 3 back as he calls it, can block on his side of the formation or he can slice block to the weak side of the formation. These two are most evident in a staple of Gus's scheme, the inside zone. See this link for a great breakdown of these run schemes. Link

Being off the LOS can change the blocking angles. Ideally you'd have a guy like Charles Clay or Lutzie that can do it all. Split out, put their hand in the dirt at TE, or play that HB role.

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8 minutes ago, ValleyTiger said:

Ideally you'd have a guy like Charles Clay or Lutzie that can do it all. Split out, put their hand in the dirt at TE, or play that HB role.

Which was precisely the late hype on Wilson, which is in turn why I'm a little confused he wasn't used more last night. Or maybe he was and just didn't record stats.

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6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Which was precisely the late hype on Wilson, which is in turn why I'm a little confused he wasn't used more last night. Or maybe he was and just didn't record stats.

I'm there with you. Really expected and wanted to see him. He wasn't even on the participation chart.

I haven't made it far enough down the rabbit hole to listen to Gus's presser to see if he was asked about him yet. Was hoping it'd come across the Twitter feed.

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2 hours ago, Beaker said:

Thanks, I understand the hot-hand approach and really do get it.  That sting of the 2017 SECG is still raw with me - no depth, a worn-out/injured KJ, not trusting others, etc.   My pain heals slowly.  Have I mentioned losing to FSU in 2013 lately?  Well, sit down and lend me your ear - 

2017 was frustrating, and Gus could’ve done more in the SECCG to spell KJ. But remember that all of us were expecting the 2 headed monster of Pettway and KJ which never materialized due to Pettway’s injury plagued season. The year before, when they were both healthy, carries were pretty evenly distributed. I’m OK with Boobee’s 24 carries last night, especially in a big game early in the season. My judgement on Gus and the RB rotation will be lower tier SEC opponents (Ole Miss/Arky) and the other 3 non conference games. Boobee should get light loads in those games in my opinion. We have enough talent to do that and I’m guessing that will be Caddy’s approach. 

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@McLoofus I just re-checked the official Auburn participation sheet and Jay Jay was on it. I guess the quickie stat sheet I saw last night was off. I don't remember seeing #42 in on offense, maybe it was special teams.

And here's the Gus quote from the presser about Jay Jay:

He definitely will help this team. You'll see his role grow as the season goes on.

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2 minutes ago, lutzcammed said:

on another note, hadn't he publicly stated he was gonna play fast again this year?

Ugh, same broken record. :InsertWe'reStillWaitingGif:

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5 hours ago, Beaker said:

Serious questions, not being sarcastic:

1.  What do we gain by not having a pass catching TE (or using ours for that)?  Not having the TE as a outlet for Bo seems like we are taking away one of his tools.  If Bo rolls out so well, why do we need the TE to stay in and block(what seems like every play)?   Yes I did see Bo running around due to crazy pressure, which seems like a great argument for some 2-5 yd TE routes.  Jason Whitten will go the HOF, as he has perfected this.  

2.  Why did we not have RB by committee last night?  Joiner sure could have helped a little I feel when running  between the tackles or maybe give DJ Williams some carries after Boobie was just plain gassed!   I think we need to use 3 backs and work out a scheme.  Ronnie and Caddy made it work fairly well, didn't they?    (ok, a little sarcasm).

3.  To me, it seemed like we got real predictable again on 1st and 2nd down, thus put unrealistic pressure on Bo to make a 3rd down conversion.  Is that my intolerance for Gus ( as a playcaller ) tainting my judgment, or were we predictable again?  

 

WDE and I will hang up and listen to your answer.

 

Not only right ends but also backs.  These two position are important in blitz situations which we were not handling at all.

I guess with Whitlow having a hot hand they wanted run him but he did need a breather.

They were stacking the box and first down passing could have backed lbs and dbs out of the box.

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