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SumterAubie

Is the zone read option...

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no longer an option under Malzahn?

Asking for my wife.

Edited by SumterAubie

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27 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

no longer an option under Malzahn?

Asking for my wife.

Nix broke one in the first quarter on the RO, and one of the plays prior to his balls to the wall 4th down conversion was an RO when he yanked it. 

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He's probably being coached to give it unless it's absolutely wide open. Don't need your starter to get injured in game 1 against a really good team. I think you'll see it more this week and next week if DEs are biting on the run.

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I thought Nix missed a few opportunities to keep it last week, but most of the time Oregon's DE was playing to take away the keeper and forcing the handoff.  He was making the right read 80%+ of the time.

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10 hours ago, SumterAubie said:

no longer an option under Malzahn?

Asking for my wife.

The zone read was being run. When you see the quarterback belly into the running back he is reading the unblocked DE then decides whether to leave it with the tailback or pull it out an keep the ball so when you see Boobee or kam keep the ball on the run that is the first part of the double option of the zone read. 

What I think did not happen was the hurry up part of the hurry up no huddle.  It did not seem to me that after a first down Auburn went into the hurry up but I did not pay attention to the play clock so maybe they were moving faster than it appeared to me.  Maybe I can catch a playback and see just how fast they are moving.

 

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yeah i thought 90% of our runs were zone reads.....but they may just look like it if with how they develop kind of slow and how the QB tends to hold the ball in the RBs stomach. 

But the great debate on if the QB is actually allowed to make a read or if it is an already pre-determined outcome on whether he gives it or not will rage on in glorious fashion until the end of our days. Cause i bet a dollar Gus will never let on (and he shouldn't)

 

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I saw a few times where if it was a true ZR then Bo should have absolutely pulled it. It was wide open. Maybe Gus tells the QB you have 5-7 for the game...choose wisely. I would hope, however, that if we are indeed running the ZR which it appears we are that Gus would let the QB run the actual Read part of it. I think alot of these are designed to look like read for sake of continuity on the offense but are designed gives. I just don't see how this happens when there is no-one with 10 yards on the keeper and the QB gives it. Maybe once or twice but these reads aren't that hard. JMO

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The thing is, even in year 2 under Marshall, a lot of the "zone read" was actually predetermined handoffs and QB runs.

As much as everyone likes saying the zone read is Malzahns bread and butter, he had rarely run it before 2013. Even in 2010 we didn't run the same read plays we ran under Marshall in 2013. Most of Cams reads were on inside veer plays which is...well... significantly different than the outside zone read that Marshall ran. 

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5 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I saw a few times where if it was a true ZR then Bo should have absolutely pulled it. It was wide open. Maybe Gus tells the QB you have 5-7 for the game...choose wisely. I would hope, however, that if we are indeed running the ZR which it appears we are that Gus would let the QB run the actual Read part of it. I think alot of these are designed to look like read for sake of continuity on the offense but are designed gives. I just don't see how this happens when there is no-one with 10 yards on the keeper and the QB gives it. Maybe once or twice but these reads aren't that hard. JMO

You beat me to the punch by seconds. 

Edited by Auburn2Eugene

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I'm in the camp that since Nick Marshall (a wizard with the ZR and PA) it's been more or less dictated who should run it. One of the best things I noticed from the Oregon game is that Bo Nix didn't really take any hits. We need to use him a little more as a running threat whenever there is open field. It's great that he keeps his eyes downfield but there are times where he should go ahead and tuck it, gain the 3-7 yards, and slide out of bounds.

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2 hours ago, gravejd said:

yeah i thought 90% of our runs were zone reads.....but they may just look like it if with how they develop kind of slow and how the QB tends to hold the ball in the RBs stomach. 

But the great debate on if the QB is actually allowed to make a read or if it is an already pre-determined outcome on whether he gives it or not will rage on in glorious fashion until the end of our days. Cause i bet a dollar Gus will never let on (and he shouldn't)

 

Two reasons for the slow developing ZR plays is that early on Defenses were were requiring quarterbacks to make one read off of an unblocked DE but as time progressed DCs started to flip a linebacker or pull a safety down requiring the quarterback to make multiple reads instead on just one.

2. OREGON RUNS A LOT OF ZRS THEMSELVES SO THEIR DEFENSE GETS AMPLE OPPOTUNTIES DURING PRACTICE TO SEE THE ZR.

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1 hour ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

The thing is, even in year 2 under Marshall, a lot of the "zone read" was actually predetermined handoffs and QB runs.

As much as everyone likes saying the zone read is Malzahns bread and butter, he had rarely run it before 2013. Even in 2010 we didn't run the same read plays we ran under Marshall in 2013. Most of Cams reads were on inside veer plays which is...well... significantly different than the outside zone read that Marshall ran. 

I read an article that Gus learned the zone read from Herb Hand at Tulsa or maybe Ark State.  Ark State would make more sense since that was prior to 2013.  Bo is fast but he is not Nick or Cam.  I think he’ll be given run plays just enough to keep the defense honest.

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1 minute ago, Win4AU said:

I read an article that Gus learned the zone read from Herb Hand at Tulsa or maybe Ark State.  Ark State would make more sense since that was prior to 2013.  Bo is fast but he is not Nick or Cam.  I think he’ll be given run plays just enough to keep the defense honest.

So pretty sure I saw on here that Bo ran a 4.6 40 and heard it also said he had fast 10 yards of anyone on the team.  A quick google search for Cam & Nick 40 time at combine

Cam - 4.59

Nick - 4.54

If Bo did actually run 4.6 or even at his highschool time of 4.71.  The difference here is negligible.

Just for grins and giggles....  Stidham had 4.81 

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36 minutes ago, Zeek said:

I'm in the camp that since Nick Marshall (a wizard with the ZR and PA) it's been more or less dictated who should run it. One of the best things I noticed from the Oregon game is that Bo Nix didn't really take any hits. We need to use him a little more as a running threat whenever there is open field. It's great that he keeps his eyes downfield but there are times where he should go ahead and tuck it, gain the 3-7 yards, and slide out of bounds.

Almost as if coach was protecting his confidence (pass) and his body (run) at the same time. I bet they were sand-bagging, and that we'll see Bo open up on both pass and run soon. 

or else........

lol

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2 hours ago, jAUSon said:

Almost as if coach was protecting his confidence (pass) and his body (run) at the same time. I bet they were sand-bagging, and that we'll see Bo open up on both pass and run soon. 

or else........

lol

:D Yeah, we wouldn't want to do anything unnecessarily complicated or fancy when playing Oregon that might give Tulane or Kent State an advantage. 

Edited by triangletiger
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7 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I thought Nix missed a few opportunities to keep it last week, but most of the time Oregon's DE was playing to take away the keeper and forcing the handoff.  He was making the right read 80%+ of the time.

By my calculations it was 78%, but who am I to quibble.

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7 hours ago, Carnell said:

The zone read was being run. When you see the quarterback belly into the running back he is reading the unblocked DE then decides whether to leave it with the tailback or pull it out an keep the ball so when you see Boobee or kam keep the ball on the run that is the first part of the double option of the zone read. 

What I think did not happen was the hurry up part of the hurry up no huddle.  It did not seem to me that after a first down Auburn went into the hurry up but I did not pay attention to the play clock so maybe they were moving faster than it appeared to me.  Maybe I can catch a playback and see just how fast they are moving.

 

Malzahn addressed this. He said they throttled back on the hurry up most of the game bc he had a FR QB running it, and some new WRs and he said he was more interested on everyone knowing their roles on plays called. So he called very little HUNH...

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8 hours ago, gravejd said:

But the great debate on if the QB is actually allowed to make a read or if it is an already pre-determined outcome on whether he gives it or not will rage on in glorious fashion until the end of our days. Cause i bet a dollar Gus will never let on (and he shouldn't)

This is what I am getting at. A couple of plays would've been nice gains if Nix had toted it. Surely he saw the opportunity was there to keep it. Leads me to believe the option part is removed from the play.

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5 hours ago, LKEEL75 said:

So pretty sure I saw on here that Bo ran a 4.6 40 and heard it also said he had fast 10 yards of anyone on the team.  A quick google search for Cam & Nick 40 time at combine

Cam - 4.59

Nick - 4.54

If Bo did actually run 4.6 or even at his highschool time of 4.71.  The difference here is negligible.

Just for grins and giggles....  Stidham had 4.81 

Yeah I don't care what anyone says, the notion that Bo is in the same stratosphere as Marshall as far as on the field speed is laughable. 

Nix had a couple of good runs, and has a good burst, but it's laughable someone would actually still make that claim after seeing Nix on the field, in game speed. 

Nix is quicker than Stidham, no doubt. I don't think anyone would still question that. 

I also saw people make that claim, but it was nothing more than a claim. I mean claiming that Nix is as fast as Schwartz is absurd, 10 yard distance or not...Nix isn't as fast as Worm in 10 yards. Nix isn't as fast as J. Davis within 10. Not with pads on... Maybe is he athletic enough to keep up with them in shells and shorts, but not with pads on... There were a couple of those runs where Nix looked like he was running the ball in quicksand. That doesn't come from one of the fastest players on a team that has Olympic speed. 

I don't know WHY I have to keep saying this over and over, but Stidhams 4.8 was at the combine. Combine times are always less flattering than hand timed high school and college times. At one time, Stidham ran a 4.57. I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that Stidham didn't always run a 4.8. Look at his recruiting profile

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I'm not knocking Nix. He won me over on that last drive.  

But the idea Nix is in the same stratosphere as Nick Marshall is just absurd.

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23 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

This is what I am getting at. A couple of plays would've been nice gains if Nix had toted it. Surely he saw the opportunity was there to keep it. Leads me to believe the option part is removed from the play.

It largely has been gone since 2013. It's been largely predetermined handoffs or keepers

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Folks can swear to JS's 4.57 I guess but the first ten yards of that 40 is what really counts for a QB and about every lineman in the SEC could outrun JS for ten or 15 yards when he was trying to get away from a rush......so maybe carrying the football slowed him down or something?   ….but BN seems to have pretty good foot speed in his first half dozen steps and makes pretty nice cuts too. . 

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