Just how insane is this Justice Department decision?

[homersapien 11,352]

Here's a test:   Trump supporters - especially those with children and/or grandchildren - how do you defend this?

Justice Dept. launches antitrust probe of automakers over their fuel efficiency deal with California

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/justice-dept-launches-antitrust-probe-of-automakers-over-their-fuel-efficiency-deal-with-california/2019/09/06/29a22ee6-d0c7-11e9-b29b-a528dc82154a_story.html

 

So, several car manufacturers want to comply with California emissions restrictions - which are stricter than the Federal restrictions Trump relaxed - so the Trump justice department is investigating them for anti-trust violations. 

This is insane!

[jj3jordan 2,039]

Why should Cali set different standards?  Are they special?  The minions don't want it. Only the people who can afford it want to make themselves feel good about a couple more mpg. Then they fly their private jets off to lecture the rest of the world.

This is how you get a state who diverts HALF its water supply into the mud because they MIGHT, not WILL, MIGHT be helping the smelt to reproduce at a rate of their choosing. Meanwhile the jobs and the food in the central valley are gone.

To borrow with acknowledgement; insane.

[autigeremt 6,562]

Stop acting like Trump supporters are the only ones who carry insanity cards!!!! You are part of the problem when you do. Democrats have their own set of kooks. 

[homersapien 11,352]

21 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Why should Cali set different standards?  Are they special?  The minions don't want it. Only the people who can afford it want to make themselves feel good about a couple more mpg. Then they fly their private jets off to lecture the rest of the world.

This is how you get a state who diverts HALF its water supply into the mud because they MIGHT, not WILL, MIGHT be helping the smelt to reproduce at a rate of their choosing. Meanwhile the jobs and the food in the central valley are gone.

To borrow with acknowledgement; insane.

Car manufacturers understand the future and the physics that determine it.  They know what they need to be doing and are willing to meet more stringent fuel and emissions standards as set forth by California, an important market for them.  They voluntarily accept their responsibility to address the problem of AGW by increasing the efficiency of the internal combustion engine and investing in electric cars.

Meanwhile, the current administration who is anti-science (think about that) and is in total denial wants to penalize them for doing the responsible thing. 

This is truly Bizarro.

[homersapien 11,352]

19 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Stop acting like Trump supporters are the only ones who carry insanity cards!!!! You are part of the problem when you do. Democrats have their own set of kooks. 

Let's stick to the actual subject.

Do you think trying to legally sanction car manufacturers because they are willing to exceed Federal regulations by meeting  California standards for fuel efficiency and lower emissions is a smart or logical thing to do EMT?

Is it the best way to serve the interests of future generations?

[Tiger Sue 325]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Let's stick to the actual subject.

 

That is real hypocrisy on your part of all people.

[jj3jordan 2,039]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Let's stick to the actual subject.

Do you think trying to legally sanction car manufacturers because they are willing to exceed Federal regulations by meeting  California standards for fuel efficiency and lower emissions is a smart or logical thing to do EMT?

Is it the best way to serve the interests of future generations?

Can't car manufacturers build any car they want if they think someone will buy it?  If it happens to get good mileage then that's great.  Are you saying car manufacturers cannot build a car to a certain fuel efficiency?

[homersapien 11,352]

11 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Can't car manufacturers build any car they want if they think someone will buy it?  If it happens to get good mileage then that's great.  Are you saying car manufacturers cannot build a car to a certain fuel efficiency?

No, the Trump Justice Department is saying that.

[homersapien 11,352]

Arnold Schwarzenegger: Trump can’t erase a decade of clean air progress with a Sharpie

Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, is a former governor of California.

California has been a leader in the fight to clean our air since one of my heroes, Ronald Reagan, was our governor.

The Trump administration, for some reason, is hellbent on reversing decades of history and progress. Whether it is political pettiness, shortsightedness or just plain jealousy, I couldn’t tell you.

I can tell you that it’s wrong. It’s un-American. And it’s an affront to long-standing conservative principles.

To understand why I’m so angry about the administration’s move to revoke California’s waiver to regulate automobile emissions, you must understand the history. In 1967, Reagan established the California Air Resources Board to fight crippling pollution. He appointed as its first director not a political hack or lobbyist, but a scientist, Arie Jan Haagen-Smit, who was a pioneering researcher of the causes and impacts of smog. The 1970 Clean Air Act, signed by another California Republican, President Richard M. ­Nixon, gave California the authority to regulate air pollution — and ever since, we have had what is called a waiver from the federal government to set car pollution limits.

Historically, it worked well. We set our standards, and the federal government didn’t just respect our authority, it generally made our rules the standard for the entire nation. During my time as governor, we had some hiccups with George W. Bush administration officials. They told us greenhouse gases were not a pollutant, and we won in the Supreme Court (duh). Then they didn’t approve our clean air waiver, but that ended when President Barack Obama took office and made a compromise version of our state standard the national standard.

The Trump administration’s threat to revoke our waiver to clean our air is more extreme. And coming from a Republican White House, it’s downright hypocritical.

How many times have you heard conservatives beat the drum of states’ rights? But suddenly, when a state wants to pollute less and protect its citizens from deadly pollution, conservatives throw states’ rights straight out the window. Nixon and Reagan understood the importance of California’s right to clean air, but some so-called Republicans today seem to only believe in states’ rights when it’s convenient, when the state voted for their party, or when the state is doing something really dumb.

How many times have you heard Republicans talk about being pro-business? But now, when automakers plead with the administration that they don’t want the Stone Age standards the White House is fighting for, some Republicans aren’t acting very pro-business. This administration is even taking the extraordinary step of investigating four companies — Ford, Honda, BMW and Volkswagen — that made an agreement with California to reduce their emissions. That agreement is another compromise, because California isn’t anti-business. And I guarantee you that more big carmakers will be joining those forward-thinking companies.

How many times have you heard Republicans talk about security and public safety? When Americans are attacked or bridges collapse, we demand action. We know pollution sickens and kills hundreds of thousands; the administration’s own EPA says lowering the automobile standard will literally kill more people. But suddenly public safety doesn’t matter much anymore.

So why is revoking California’s waiver even being discussed?

I’m sure the EPA and the White House will continue to say this dumb policy decision is all about stopping regulations that “cripple the economy.”

They should come out to California. Last year, the U.S. economy grew by 2.9 percent . California’s economy, with our supposedly crippling regulations, grew by 3.5 percent . We’ve outpaced the nation’s economic growth even as we’ve protected our people.

Our success is built on our consistency. Ever since Reagan, each governor has continued the legacy of moving toward a clean energy future. We don’t play the games Washington does, with each administration changing the trajectory of the United States and forcing businesses to guess about where we are headed.

That’s a big reason nearly half of the venture capital in the United States comes to California. Businesses aren’t just thinking about their talking points for their next campaign. They’re planning for five years, 10 years, 20 years. Businesses must have long-term vision to succeed.

Knee-jerk reactionary policies such as the move to revoke our clean air waiver create uncertainty. These companies have been planning and working toward cleaner cars for a decade. They didn’t ask for the Trump administration’s backward thinking, and they know it won’t help them. This “solution” in search of a problem reminds me of the nine words that most terrified Reagan: “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

Business leaders — and Californians — know that you can’t just erase decades of history and progress by drawing a line through it with a Sharpie. It’s time the administration learns that lesson.

California will fight this decision. And I promise you, we will win.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-cant-erase-a-decade-of-clean-air-progress-with-a-sharpie/2019/09/08/8d6393de-d248-11e9-86ac-0f250cc91758_story.html

 

[TitanTiger 20,465]

On 9/7/2019 at 11:00 AM, homersapien said:

Here's a test:   Trump supporters - especially those with children and/or grandchildren - how do you defend this?

Simple.  Trump wants it so it must be good and anyone complaining is a hater.

[TexasTiger 12,798]

On 9/7/2019 at 3:32 PM, autigeremt said:

Stop acting like Trump supporters are the only ones who carry insanity cards!!!! You are part of the problem when you do. Democrats have their own set of kooks. 

Post those if you want, but don’t deny the clear problems with this.

[TexasTiger 12,798]

23 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Can't car manufacturers build any car they want if they think someone will buy it?  If it happens to get good mileage then that's great.  Are you saying car manufacturers cannot build a car to a certain fuel efficiency?

Dude. Read the story.

[TexasTiger 12,798]

On 9/8/2019 at 6:03 PM, Tiger Sue said:

That is real hypocrisy on your part of all people.

Resident expert on hypocrisy weighs in.

[Tiger Sue 325]

42 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Resident expert on hypocrisy weighs in.

Don't have to be an expert to recognize it.

[TexasTiger 12,798]

1 minute ago, Tiger Sue said:

Don't have to be an expert to recognize it.

Too bad you don’t have more self awareness.

[Tiger Sue 325]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Too bad you don’t have more self awareness.

Too bad you have too much

[TexasTiger 12,798]

7 minutes ago, Tiger Sue said:

Too bad you have too much

It’s a curse.

[jj3jordan 2,039]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Dude. Read the story.

I did read it. Doesn’t really say much of anything to complain about.  I can see a problem if Cali tries to prohibit sales of a vehicle that meets national standards. 

[TexasTiger 12,798]

41 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

I did read it. Doesn’t really say much of anything to complain about.  I can see a problem if Cali tries to prohibit sales of a vehicle that meets national standards. 

You don’t believe in federalism?

[homersapien 11,352]

12 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I did read it. Doesn’t really say much of anything to complain about.  I can see a problem if Cali tries to prohibit sales of a vehicle that meets national standards. 

The Department of Justice is investigating several large car manufacturers for anti-trust activity when all they did was to voluntarily negotiate and agree to meet California emission and mileage standards.

If you don't see anything to "complain about" in that, then I just don't know what else to tell you.

[jj3jordan 2,039]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

The Department of Justice is investigating several large car manufacturers for anti-trust activity when all they did was to voluntarily negotiate and agree to meet California emission and mileage standards.

If you don't see anything to "complain about" in that, then I just don't know what else to tell you.

Well said. Recommend you do not move to Cali.

[homersapien 11,352]

20 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Well said. Recommend you do not move to Cali.

You must not know much about California.

[AuburnNTexas 7,127]

On 9/9/2019 at 8:43 AM, homersapien said:

No, the Trump Justice Department is saying that.

No they are not there are cars being made now that exceed the mileage requirements. They are saying there is one set of minimum standards that they have to meet. Minimum does not mean you can't exceed.   Certain areas are set at federal level others at state and local they are defending their area nothing more.  You can't have every state with different standards. There is nothing wrong with California asking to try and exceed the standard but to require that they do is different. 

[homersapien 11,352]

20 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

No they are not there are cars being made now that exceed the mileage requirements. They are saying there is one set of minimum standards that they have to meet. Minimum does not mean you can't exceed.   Certain areas are set at federal level others at state and local they are defending their area nothing more.  You can't have every state with different standards. There is nothing wrong with California asking to try and exceed the standard but to require that they do is different. 

I don't think you are accurately describing the facts.  These car manufacturers negotiated an agreement with California to meet California's emission and mileage requirements.

The DoJ is investigating them for anti-trust violations because of that.

Any state can set whatever standards they want.  And no one is requiring California - or the car manufacturers - to do anything.

[autigeremt 6,562]

On 9/8/2019 at 10:53 AM, homersapien said:

Let's stick to the actual subject.

Do you think trying to legally sanction car manufacturers because they are willing to exceed Federal regulations by meeting  California standards for fuel efficiency and lower emissions is a smart or logical thing to do EMT?

Is it the best way to serve the interests of future generations?

My belief is that automakers need to make cars and trucks as fuel efficient and emission neutral as possible regardless of what California wants because A: It helps sell vehicles and B: because it's the right thing to do for the environment.