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Why are we so divided?


tbone4jc

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34 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Les Miles kinda won at LSU. Ron Zook not so much.

And he kind of got fired too.  So imagine somebody who hasn’t won a damn thing?

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20 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

I don't know anyone who thinks that way. You have totally misinterpreted things. Gus fans think he can bring more success to Auburn given enough time and support. Dabo did not become successful overnight, and he doesn't have much of an in-state juggernaut to face either. He has been given full support and you can see the results.....but it took him 10 YEARS to get the program to where it is now . Dabo had to learn on the job also, and he made plenty of mistakes. He started at Clemson in 2008, so don't try to re-write history here, and act like he was this great coach all along. He has grown into his job over the years. 

Since his 4th year in 2011, Dabo has been winning 10+ games each season. Dabo has had sustained success. It hasn't been a roller coaster of ups a downs like Gus has had at Auburn.

Gus is in his 7th year. Gus and Mark Stoops at Kentucky are tied as the 2nd longest tenured coaches in the SEC behind Saban who's been at Bama since 2007. Gus has been given time and a nice big contract and buyout for producing pockets of success. Alabama being the in-state rival has no bearing on Auburn losing to Miss State and Tennessee in 2018. Both Miss St and Tennessee had 1st year HC's while Gus was in his 6th year. It's not the players, it's the offense that needs changes. The sign of growing into the job as HC means making necessary changes to improve an aspect of your program that needs improvement. 

Dabo changed both his offense and defense. In 2011 despite winning 10 games, Dabo fired Kevin Steele after they gave up 70 points in their bowl game. He hired Brent Venables from Oklahoma and Clemson's defense has remained consistently good since. Also in 2011, Dabo hired Chad Morris to improve Clemson's offense and their offense has remained consistently good since.

Ed Orgeron changed LSU's offense by bringing in Joe Brady to work on LSU's passing offense. Saban changed Bama's offense in 2014 by bringing in Kiffin to evolve Bama's passing offense. Spurrier changed his offense at South Carolina because his Fun-N-Gun offense from his Florida years wasn't producing. Even experienced coaches have to make changes in order to maintain success.

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6 hours ago, Mike4AU said:

It is always interesting how folks play around with statistics in an effort to support their position.  In the case quoted above I cannot believe any rational AU fan would try to minimize Tub’s 6 year winning streak over UA  

You might want to rethink that. 

Anyway, have a nice day and WE. 

Wait....you think beating Bama in the Shula years is equal to the Saban years? I would not minimize it (I loved the “fear the thumb” year) but since Saban is referred to as the greatest coach in college football history, it’s got to be a bit tougher.

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1 hour ago, DAG said:

And he kind of got fired too.  So imagine somebody who hasn’t won a damn thing?

Not to mention,  if I remember correctly,  Les got fired because he wouldn't adapt the offense and kept losing games. 

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1 hour ago, BJCrawford said:

Wait....you think beating Bama in the Shula years is equal to the Saban years? I would not minimize it (I loved the “fear the thumb” year) but since Saban is referred to as the greatest coach in college football history, it’s got to be a bit tougher.

That’s quite a leap you made in trying to twist my words. I said what I said, in plain English.  My statement was about Tub.  If you want to talk about Saban, have at it.  

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On 9/10/2019 at 3:12 PM, McLoofus said:

Spot on. It isn't about "could". It's about "would". 

-We hired a coach from Wyoming and he took us from 5-6 to 9-3 in 2 years. The next year he went 11-1 and was robbed of a national championship.
-We hired the next coach from Samford. He went undefeated in year 1 and went 20-1-1 over his first two years. 
-We hired the next coach from Ole Miss. We gettin' fancy now. He went from 3-8 to 9-4 in 2 years. It took him 5 years to build the greatest Auburn team of all time. 
-We hired the next one from Iowa State. He wasn't even good at Iowa State. 5-7 to national title in 2 years. 
-Next guy came from Arkansas State and went from 3-9 to the national title game in his first season.

I mean, if we can do that - over and over and over again- with those guys??? Imagine what we're capable of!!!

Buuuuuut Tennessee happened, so yeah, we'll probably just fall off a cliff and never be good again. Because Tennessee. Never mind almost every single other big time program who regained relevance no more than 3-4 years after parting ways with much more big time coaches than Malzahn.  Never mind our roster loaded with young talent, our fertile recruiting territory, our fanbase and boosters dying to be energized by a new and, for once,  splash hire. Tennessee is what we need to focus on. Tennessee, Tennessee, Tennessee. 

Don't forget Nebraska, while not quite Tenn yet they did get rid of two coaches for not winning the big games/championships (both had over 70% win percentage). They would be considered, or were, a blue blood program. Haven't picked up a championship since 1999.

Now you can go read articles on how their new hotshot offensive coach just got shut down by Colorado and lost despite a 17-0 lead. Now that Top 25 team is predicted to not make a bowl game. I know he beat Gus, but let's be honest. Even our fans didn't show up for that game, nobody  wanted to be there or participate.

Michigan will be interesting to me. While they are getting the wins they are getting championships and have yet to figure out OSU under Harbaugh. Rodriguiz and Hoke set them back. How long before they say adios. Auburn fans would be the same way I think. Would we really be pleased with 6 10 win seasons in a row yet no playoffs and no SEC's visits because we could never solve Alabama? Let's be honest. His new offense with a returning QB Saturday looked worse than Auburn's.

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:03 PM, WarTim said:

WHY are we so divided? I blame it on Bird and Golf. They keep the whole board stirred up. Maybe they should have a “Beer Summit “???

Golf told me that the offense is really Bird's and that he has been calling the plays.

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11 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Dabo became interim head coach at Clemson in 2008. He went 3-4 to finish out the season.

He went 9-5 the following season.

He went 6-7 the season after that.

Since then he has won 10 or more games 8 straight times. 

So he became relevant his first full season and "broke through" in his third season. 

Most importantly, he has steadily gotten better since then. His best team was his most recent one.

Gus's best team was 6 years ago and he hasn't even approached being that good since. 

 

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Whew!!  6 pages of this!

  • Fire Gus....and hire anybody.....somebody....they've got to be better!
  • Trust CBP over CGM....I really do like Pearl and hope he stays a LOOONG time but one of his assistants was ARRESTED BY THE FBI FOR STUFF HE DID WHILE AT AU!!!
  • You deep-pocket, big money boosters on this board should tell the PTB to fire Gus and hire???? Neal Brown?  Gary Patterson?  Bob Stoops?  Back the money truck up to Dabo's door and offer whatever he wants?
  • AU needs to have 10 wins every year....you know like we used to (yellow font)
  • Hire Tony Franklin to improve the offense and move us in a different direction

And there ya go....fixed all of our problems

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3 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Gus is in his 7th year. Gus and Mark Stoops at Kentucky are tied as the 2nd longest tenured coaches in the SEC

This interested me and I was curious.

Mark Stoops record at UK...

'13:  2-10 / 0-8 (SEC)

'14:  5-7 / 2-6

'15:  5-7 / 2-6

'16:  7-6 / 4-4

'17:  7-6 / 4-4

'18:  10-3 / 5-3

'19:  2-0 (so far) 

... interesting trajectory.

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18 minutes ago, penguin149 said:

Whew!!  6 pages of this!

  • Fire Gus....and hire anybody.....somebody....they've got to be better!
  • Trust CBP over CGM....I really do like Pearl and hope he stays a LOOONG time but one of his assistants was ARRESTED BY THE FBI FOR STUFF HE DID WHILE AT AU!!!
  • You deep-pocket, big money boosters on this board should tell the PTB to fire Gus and hire???? Neal Brown?  Gary Patterson?  Bob Stoops?  Back the money truck up to Dabo's door and offer whatever he wants?
  • AU needs to have 10 wins every year....you know like we used to (yellow font)
  • Hire Tony Franklin to improve the offense and move us in a different direction

And there ya go....fixed all of our problems

You have quite the imagination. 

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1 hour ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Don't forget Nebraska, while not quite Tenn yet they did get rid of two coaches for not winning the big games/championships (both had over 70% win percentage). They would be considered, or were, a blue blood program. Haven't picked up a championship since 1999.

Now you can go read articles on how their new hotshot offensive coach just got shut down by Colorado and lost despite a 17-0 lead. Now that Top 25 team is predicted to not make a bowl game. I know he beat Gus, but let's be honest. Even our fans didn't show up for that game, nobody  wanted to be there or participate.

Michigan will be interesting to me. While they are getting the wins they are getting championships and have yet to figure out OSU under Harbaugh. Rodriguiz and Hoke set them back. How long before they say adios. Auburn fans would be the same way I think. Would we really be pleased with 6 10 win seasons in a row yet no playoffs and no SEC's visits because we could never solve Alabama? Let's be honest. His new offense with a returning QB Saturday looked worse than Auburn's.

Nebraska can't recruit like they used to. Or, should I say, they can't recruit like the top teams do now. 

Michigan can do better but I'm not sure they'll ever reclaim their past glory on a consistent basis. 

Times have changed.

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1 hour ago, penguin149 said:

Whew!!  6 pages of this!

  • Fire Gus....and hire anybody.....somebody....they've got to be better!
  • Trust CBP over CGM....I really do like Pearl and hope he stays a LOOONG time but one of his assistants was ARRESTED BY THE FBI FOR STUFF HE DID WHILE AT AU!!!
  • You deep-pocket, big money boosters on this board should tell the PTB to fire Gus and hire???? Neal Brown?  Gary Patterson?  Bob Stoops?  Back the money truck up to Dabo's door and offer whatever he wants?
  • AU needs to have 10 wins every year....you know like we used to (yellow font)
  • Hire Tony Franklin to improve the offense and move us in a different direction

And there ya go....fixed all of our problems

Eh, I would say something but I got in trouble with that aw4000 dude or whatever his name is so I’ll just let this idiocy slide...good post!

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I think we are pretty clearly a divided fan base right now. I listened to Bryan Matthews on a podcast earlier today, and I've never heard more doom-and-gloom from an Auburn affiliated journalist. Lots of really negative comments about the quality of our players, even at positions like running back that are so obviously a strength (if only the OL would play up to Auburn standards). Seemed to assume the most negative explanation for everything. Also seemed to pretty clearly have it out for Gus. For comparison purposes, I listened to 3 to 4 other podcasts today, all of which seemed to say the same thing... we have to improve but there's no reason to panic. 

About 1/6 of the fan base right now seems to be delusional thinking Gus can do no wrong. About 1/3 including Bryan Matthews seem to have turned into Gus-hating  wackos that are just waiting for anything to go wrong so that they can find a way to pin it on Gus. The remaining 1/2 of us are just about through with the other two groups and their unwillingness to be rational. I've seen division in our the family before, but I've never seen it this bad. If other schools' fan bases are worse, I'm even more happy I chose Auburn for college. 

Still, this nonsense has to stop. Fans need to stop comparing us to Bama right now. They are in unchartered waters for success, and it will end eventually. Most teams just don't win championships every year, and I think a part of the Auburn family has lost the ability to understand that. Still, Auburn deserves to be better than 8-5 every year.Gus has to do better, and he knows it. But, for now, we're 2-0 after playing the hardest first 2 games in the top 10. Yet we looked sloppy doing it. The Gus Bashers and Gus Lovers need to have a serious reality check. 

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Every time someone makes this "the fanbase is hurting the team" narrative try to stick, the OP never cares to mention what we're exactly divisive about

 

How many people are saying "Yeah I hate Auburn now"? It's almost unanimously "This could be the same song and dance we've seen for the better part of 7 years" on the opposing side

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I also think it's just a culmination of decades of repeated abuse. Auburn has a range from being the absolute worst of the elite programs in the SEC to being one bad break (suspension, bad kickoff defense, Oklahoma, etc (and thats just the past 25+ years)) from Miami/USC-esque success. I think as the expectations have grown from "we're just happy to compete" to "We're own entity away from rivalry games, and we want titles", there's naturally going to be one (likely younger) side more entitled to success (likely older) than another. 

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5 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Since his 4th year in 2011, Dabo has been winning 10+ games each season. Dabo has had sustained success. It hasn't been a roller coaster of ups a downs like Gus has had at Auburn.

Gus is in his 7th year. Gus and Mark Stoops at Kentucky are tied as the 2nd longest tenured coaches in the SEC behind Saban who's been at Bama since 2007. Gus has been given time and a nice big contract and buyout for producing pockets of success. Alabama being the in-state rival has no bearing on Auburn losing to Miss State and Tennessee in 2018. Both Miss St and Tennessee had 1st year HC's while Gus was in his 6th year. It's not the players, it's the offense that needs changes. The sign of growing into the job as HC means making necessary changes to improve an aspect of your program that needs improvement. 

Dabo changed both his offense and defense. In 2011 despite winning 10 games, Dabo fired Kevin Steele after they gave up 70 points in their bowl game. He hired Brent Venables from Oklahoma and Clemson's defense has remained consistently good since. Also in 2011, Dabo hired Chad Morris to improve Clemson's offense and their offense has remained consistently good since.

Ed Orgeron changed LSU's offense by bringing in Joe Brady to work on LSU's passing offense. Saban changed Bama's offense in 2014 by bringing in Kiffin to evolve Bama's passing offense. Spurrier changed his offense at South Carolina because his Fun-N-Gun offense from his Florida years wasn't producing. Even experienced coaches have to make changes in order to maintain success.

Post of the day.   This is just my personal opinion, but I think this is biggest problem with what is going on now.   CGM was  hired because of the success he had here as the OC.   

Let’s take a look back on how this OC thing has gone down.  Gus was calling plays at first.  Gave those duties to CRL.  Fired CRL and hired CCL.   GOT rid of CCL and declared himself as play caller and hired CKD to do whatever he does.   In 7 years, with 3 different people acting as OC, I can honestly say that I do not see any difference in the offense (play calling).  

If he would have brought in someone from the outside and gave them the keys, I think a lot of us would be able to handle some of this better.  

 

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10 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

This interested me and I was curious.

Mark Stoops record at UK...

'13:  2-10 / 0-8 (SEC)

'14:  5-7 / 2-6

'15:  5-7 / 2-6

'16:  7-6 / 4-4

'17:  7-6 / 4-4

'18:  10-3 / 5-3

'19:  2-0 (so far) 

... interesting trajectory.

Kentucky plays two teams currently in the top 25 this year.  That's IMPOSSIBLE to do in the SEC.  

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14 hours ago, DAG said:

And he kind of got fired too.  So imagine somebody who hasn’t won a damn thing?

Who hasn't won  a da%n thing? CGM? Surely you are kidding.

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14 hours ago, Rednilla said:

That tweet is misleading. It's not that the detractors don't believe in or love Auburn. It's that they don't believe in Gus. THAT is why we are so divided. There is the contingent that doesn't believe Malzahn will ever be better than an 8-4 coach, and there is the contingent that is still willing to wait and see. I am one of the latter, but my patience is wearing thin.

I 100% agree with this entire post!

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On 9/10/2019 at 9:28 AM, McLoofus said:

I dunno. Maybe things like starting a new thread to "not call out names or point fingers" does more to divide than unite? Just a thought.

One side criticizes the coach. The other side tells those fans how terrible they are and how much they don't love Auburn. You tell me who's doing the dividing. 

 

Beat me to this.

 

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8 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Every time someone makes this "the fanbase is hurting the team" narrative try to stick, the OP never cares to mention what we're exactly divisive about

 

How many people are saying "Yeah I hate Auburn now"? It's almost unanimously "This could be the same song and dance we've seen for the better part of 7 years" on the opposing side

The OP is self explanatory. Those who support the head coach and those who don't. Those who still support CGM get labeled as " not knowing football" or " don't care about winning" while the other side " continues to bash no matter what" or " continues to take over every topic bashing CGM". My per peeve is if you have an opinion, good or bad, state it and move on.

Some say it doesn't affect recruiting or players but I beg to differ. Even if there are a "small portion of the fanbase" on this forum it is still a representation of the entire fanbase and kids hear about it and talk about it and it does cause "issues". To hear a broadcaster on live tv mention the divisiveness and to see my Twitter line lite up afterwards is what prompted me to post.

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11 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Beat me to this.

 

Or may be it's a discussion that should be brought up? Talked about? Seems like we have been having a very civilized discussion from both sides and now maybe we could see each other's point of view better?  🤔

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:19 PM, Tigerbelle said:

I don't know anyone who thinks that way. You have totally misinterpreted things. Gus fans think he can bring more success to Auburn given enough time and support. Dabo did not become successful overnight, and he doesn't have much of an in-state juggernaut to face either. He has been given full support and you can see the results.....but it took him 10 YEARS to get the program to where it is now . Dabo had to learn on the job also, and he made plenty of mistakes. He started at Clemson in 2008, so don't try to re-write history here, and act like he was this great coach all along. He has grown into his job over the years. 

Little context here with Dabo. He wasn't given "full support" from the fans. He earned it. It's wasn't something that was a birth right that was owed to him.  His teams developed and got better over the years. He pulled the fan base together being a charismatic leader. He raised the money for his football complex by having a plan in place. He earned it all.

You just laid out why we need to move on from Gus because he is nothing like you said in Dabo.  

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7 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Or may be it's a discussion that should be brought up? Talked about? Seems like we have been having a very civilized discussion from both sides and now maybe we could see each other's point of view better?  🤔

How many times does this need to be brought up here. This is the first time? I DGAS what people post here to be honest. Just think it's pretty ironic someone here is posting about why everyone is so divided then bashes 1/2 or more of the people in the same post.

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