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Rednilla

For Comparison's Sake

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Let’s at least give him more than two games into this season.  I mean we haven’t even lost yet (knock on wood).  If Gus wins, we all win.

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39 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

People on this board seem to forget that, relatively speaking, Gus Malzahn is pretty new to head coaching in college football. In fact, less than 15 years ago, he was still coaching in the high school ranks. In another thread, I decided to compare his first seven seasons to the first seven seasons of each college head coach with a national championship on his resume, as well as two Auburn legends:

Malzahn 62-30 (.674 winning percentage)

Nick Saban 51-30 (.630)
Dabo Swinney 61-26 (.701)
Les Miles 62-27 (.697)
Jimbo Fisher 78-17 (.821)
Mack Brown 26-51 (.338)

Pat Dye 54-23 (.701)
Shug Jordan 47-24-2 (.658)

What this shows is that Gus is not doing that poorly so far. Yes, it has been frustrating to be mediocre in 4 of his first 6 seasons on the Plains, but perhaps we should give him a little more slack than some have been allowing. Call me a sunshine pumper if you like; however, I, for one, do not believe I would like it too much if Malzahn were to be fired and then take his experience elsewhere and shine, rather than building upon the experience he has gained at Auburn and sticking around to be an all-time great. Opinions certainly vary as to whether that would happen or not in either case, but given the current state of recruiting, not to mention the depth of the SEC West, does it really make sense to throw Gus under the bus and hope we find a better fit when there is so much uncertainty in finding the "right" coach?

I agree with all of this. I just wished he would show us a little more of the playbook.

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Good thoughts. Of that crew, Saban, Swinney and Fisher arguably started out with much easier schedules in conferences that weren't as top to bottom strong as the SEC West, much less the entire SEC. Now that I think about it, CPD had an up-down bammer (and lost two that he absolutely should not have) and a UGA in Dooley's twilight years to deal with, facing Hershel what, twice? Shug really only had bammer and occasionally UT to deal with.

CGM has faced the best MSU team in its history, one of the best UGA teams in their history last year going 1-1 against them, a Texas A&M team that is never easy, some of LSU's more talented teams, and the bammer monstrosity of unlimited recruiting, not to mention a couple of loaded OM teams. This year we get a resurgent UF under the guy who built MSU into its first ever top 5 ranking. 

The UT loss last year really hurts, as do a few others, but I am pretty certain that we will really have to catch lightning in a bottle again to get a coach who can do any better with the level of competition we have now and the disadvantages in recruiting vs the bammer, UGA and LSU machines. Just think, we coulda had Sgt Carter - he was a dream hire according to many on these boards. Or Turner Gill. Or Willie Taggart. Or another dream hire, Will Muschamp.

Forget the SEC's UT, look at the example set by UT Austin, who got impatient with Fred Akers. Took them 20 years to get a few good years out of Mack Brown, and the best of those came with a guy under center who was every bit Cam's equal. Texas has every advantage Auburn will never have, and more money than bammer, UGA and UF combined. 

You can't just fire a guy and wave a magic wand to clone Saban. Let's see if Gus can pull out 9 this year. 

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And all the while running a very clean program!

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53 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Malzahn 62-30 (.674 winning percentage)

If you're gonna include Arkansas St. in his head coaching record, why not include his high school record as well.

In 6 years at Auburn he is 53 and 27 for 66% winning record. 28 - 20 in SEC for 58%.

2 and 4 in Bowl Games for 33%.

One year at Auburn with less than 4 losses.

Guess it all depends on how you look at it.

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If anything the AU program has elevated average coaches to achieve heights they havnt come close to repeating again in their career. Bowden , Tuberville, Chizik are all examples. Id say Gus is much more likely to follow in their footsteps than be a smash success elsewhere.

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16 minutes ago, bigbird said:

There's more?

There used to be but somebody removed the middle portion of the chapter on the passing game. 

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3 minutes ago, gr82be said:

There used to be but somebody removed the middle portion of the chapter on the passing game. 

It was the chapters that dealt with the middle of the field....

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21 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

You can't just fire a guy and wave a magic wand to clone Saban. Let's see if Gus can pull out 9 this year. 

I don't want to clone Saban, I'd like to have some of those players...and most of their rent-free vehicles though.

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1 minute ago, bigbird said:

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but for me it's not necessarily the record. It's after 7 years the complete mess we look offensively. Stale play calling, telegraphed plays, poor player utilization, bad passing concepts, little to no evolution, lack of rhythm, terrible player development, etc. These are some of the things that bother me about Gus. It's not his record (which isn't great with inexplicable losses or game plans), it's not his handling of players, it's not discipline, it's not recruiting, and it's not him being the face of the program.  The coaches being compared in the OP are different in that each one of them evolved over their initial seasons...maybe not Les, but he's at Kansas for a reason. Gus hasn't evolved and in some areas has seemed to devolve from the coach we thought we were bringing in. He was brought in to run a high powered, explosive offense. We haven't had one since 2014. That's what I'm upset with, not his OJT or his record 

You sure? 

Seems you were in my head a few mins ago and did just that.

:beer2:

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5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The coaches being compared in the OP are different in that each one of them evolved over their initial seasons...maybe not Les, but he's at Kansas for a reason. Gus hasn't evolved and in some areas has seemed to devolve from the coach we thought we were bringing in. He was brought in to run a high powered, explosive offense. We haven't had one since 2014. That's what I'm upset with, not his OJT or his record 

I believe someone really did steal his playbook and he can't remember s***.

Edited by Bottomfeeder
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5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but for me it's not necessarily the record. It's after 7 years the complete mess we look offensively. Stale play calling, telegraphed plays, poor player utilization, bad passing concepts, little to no evolution, lack of rhythm, terrible player development, etc. These are some of the things that bother me about Gus. It's not his record (which isn't great with inexplicable losses or game plans), it's not his handling of players, it's not discipline, it's not recruiting, and it's not him being the face of the program.  The coaches being compared in the OP are different in that each one of them evolved over their initial seasons...maybe not Les, but he's at Kansas for a reason. Gus hasn't evolved and in some areas has seemed to devolve from the coach we thought we were bringing in. He was brought in to run a high powered, explosive offense. We haven't had one since 2014. That's what I'm upset with, not his OJT or his record 

You can post for me anyday,  because you're dead on center of how most of us feel. And on his side of the ball to boot. THAT'S THE FRUSTRATION. 

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Some of the dumb sh!t he does though. Changing the game plan for Clemson the week before the game. Refusing to allow his qbs attend private qb schools during the offseason. Calling a long pass play to the one receiver on the team wearing a frigging cast. Not tracking the games Asa Martin played in. That stupid whirlythingie with Chandler Cox. The criminal non use of TEs, particularly CJ Uzomah. Running Anders Carlson out there numerous times last year to attempt 50+ yard field goals. The unneeded trick plays called for what seems to be no other reason to show how smart he is. (that never work). The play after the long fumble return against Oregon comes to mind. Running on 17 consecutive first down plays. Not utilizing the entire field for his passing game. 

Just to name a few.

And that list is from a professional layman. I shudder to think what a coach could add to that list that a fan would have no clue of.

Damn. I feel better now

Edited by SumterAubie
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1 hour ago, Rednilla said:

People on this board seem to forget that, relatively speaking, Gus Malzahn is pretty new to head coaching in college football. In fact, less than 15 years ago, he was still coaching in the high school ranks. In another thread, I decided to compare his first seven seasons to the first seven seasons of each college head coach with a national championship on his resume, as well as two Auburn legends:

Malzahn 62-30 (.674 winning percentage)

Nick Saban 51-30 (.630)
Dabo Swinney 61-26 (.701)
Les Miles 62-27 (.697)
Jimbo Fisher 78-17 (.821)
Mack Brown 26-51 (.338)

Pat Dye 54-23 (.701)
Shug Jordan 47-24-2 (.658)

What this shows is that Gus is not doing that poorly so far. Yes, it has been frustrating to be mediocre in 4 of his first 6 seasons on the Plains, but perhaps we should give him a little more slack than some have been allowing. Call me a sunshine pumper if you like; however, I, for one, do not believe I would like it too much if Malzahn were to be fired and then take his experience elsewhere and shine, rather than building upon the experience he has gained at Auburn and sticking around to be an all-time great. Opinions certainly vary as to whether that would happen or not in either case, but given the current state of recruiting, not to mention the depth of the SEC West, does it really make sense to throw Gus under the bus and hope we find a better fit when there is so much uncertainty in finding the "right" coach?

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

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1 hour ago, Rednilla said:

People on this board seem to forget that, relatively speaking, Gus Malzahn is pretty new to head coaching in college football. In fact, less than 15 years ago, he was still coaching in the high school ranks. In another thread, I decided to compare his first seven seasons to the first seven seasons of each college head coach with a national championship on his resume, as well as two Auburn legends:

Malzahn 62-30 (.674 winning percentage)

Nick Saban 51-30 (.630)
Dabo Swinney 61-26 (.701)
Les Miles 62-27 (.697)
Jimbo Fisher 78-17 (.821)
Mack Brown 26-51 (.338)

Pat Dye 54-23 (.701)
Shug Jordan 47-24-2 (.658)

What this shows is that Gus is not doing that poorly so far. Yes, it has been frustrating to be mediocre in 4 of his first 6 seasons on the Plains, but perhaps we should give him a little more slack than some have been allowing. Call me a sunshine pumper if you like; however, I, for one, do not believe I would like it too much if Malzahn were to be fired and then take his experience elsewhere and shine, rather than building upon the experience he has gained at Auburn and sticking around to be an all-time great. Opinions certainly vary as to whether that would happen or not in either case, but given the current state of recruiting, not to mention the depth of the SEC West, does it really make sense to throw Gus under the bus and hope we find a better fit when there is so much uncertainty in finding the "right" coach?

Excellent post👍

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38 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but for me it's not necessarily the record. It's, after 7 years, the complete mess we look offensively. Stale play calling, telegraphed plays, poor player utilization, bad passing concepts, little to no evolution, lack of rhythm, terrible player development, etc. These are some of the things that bother me about Gus. It's not his record (which isn't great with inexplicable losses and  game plans), it's not his handling of players, it's not discipline, it's not recruiting, and it's not him being the face of the program.  The coaches being compared in the OP are different in that each one of them evolved over their initial seasons...maybe not Les, but he's at Kansas for a reason. Gus hasn't evolved and in some areas has seemed to devolve from the coach we thought we were bringing in. He was brought in to run a high powered, explosive offense. We haven't had one since 2014. That's what I'm upset with, not his OJT or his record 

The last 3 sentences pains me the most............I can remember defenses having fits trying to figure out how to stop the offense and faking injuries or cramps just to slow it down.

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51 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

If you're gonna include Arkansas St. in his head coaching record, why not include his high school record as well.

Because it was a college head coaching gig. I included Saban's one year at Toledo and Pat Dye's years at East Carolina, do you think those should be removed from their experience? 

54 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

One year at Auburn with less than 4 losses.

One of those years with 4 losses included an SEC West title and the 3rd of 4 losses came in the SEC Championship Game. Would you rather have beaten Clemson but lost a second SEC game so we didn't go to the SECCG and finished 10-3 instead of 10-4?

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49 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It was the chapters that dealt with the middle of the field....

I was pleased that we did run a few routes over the middle against Tulane.

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Look, I'm not saying that Gus is a genius, nor that he is definitely going to turn into a great coach as he gets experience. I'm just pointing out that maybe some of you are being overly critical of a coach who hasn't had a whole lot of time to develop at the college level. It's certainly possible that he won't ever develop, and quite frankly, that's the direction I'm starting to lean. However, not everything is doom and gloom, as many on here would have you believe.

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3 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

I was pleased that we did run a few routes over the middle against Tulane.

There have been many times over Gus's tenure that receivers were open over the middle and nobody threw to them. It's like they were invisible or something. I have no idea why I'm going to say this but I have a feeling that once Bo gets a little more comfortable with the speed of the game and where all of his receivers are on the field he might make more use of the middle than others have. I know, it wouldn't take much to make that happen but I really think he will. 

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