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Rednilla

For Comparison's Sake

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Only Dye & Malzahn got Auburn into the top 10 at some point during the season this many consecutive years. 

Compare: our field is named after Dye.

Malzahn...

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As far as comparisons with those coaches are concerned, I would say Malzahn started at a much stronger school than any coach on that list besides Fisher at FSU. Better facilities. Better personnel. Better name brand. Better fan support.

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1 minute ago, SumterAubie said:

As far as comparisons with those coaches are concerned, I would say Malzahn started at a much stronger school than any coach on that list besides Fisher at FSU. Better facilities. Better personnel. Better name brand. Better fan support.

Better competition, too. Be sure not to leave that one out.

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17 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Because it was a college head coaching gig. I included Saban's one year at Toledo and Pat Dye's years at East Carolina, do you think those should be removed from their experience?

I get what you were doing, but I'm mainly concerned with results at Auburn, and it's hard to compare different coaches at different schools in different situations and in different eras.

18 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

One of those years with 4 losses included an SEC West title and the 3rd of 4 losses came in the SEC Championship Game. Would you rather have beaten Clemson but lost a second SEC game so we didn't go to the SECCG and finished 10-3 instead of 10-4?

That's a good question.  Say we beat Clemson and finish the season 10-2.  KJ gets a month to heal and we make the playoffs based on beating Clemson, Alabama and Georgia but don't go to the SEC championship game (like Alabama beats us in a different tie break scenario).  Food for thought.

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I just don’t understand it.  When Gus came the defense was crap.  He went out and got good defensive coaches and now we have one of the top defenses in the country.  So why has the offense been such a mess?  It was great with Cam and good for a couple of years with Marshall when he first got back but for the last few years it has been inconsistent at best and just plain laughable at times.  

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5 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

I just don’t understand it.  When Gus came the defense was crap.  He went out and got good defensive coaches and now we have one of the top defenses in the country.  So why has the offense been such a mess?  It was great with Cam and good for a couple of years with Marshall when he first got back but for the last few years it has been inconsistent at best and just plain laughable at times.  

I still think that 2014 A&M game changed him. To some degree.

Edited by Maverick.AU

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2 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

I get what you were doing, but I'm mainly concerned with results at Auburn, and it's hard to compare different coaches at different schools in different situations and in different eras.

I'm not sure you did get what I was doing. I was making the point that Gus is still relatively new to head coaching at the college level. Just because Arkansas State isn't SEC doesn't mean it's nothing more than a glorified high school job.
 

2 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

That's a good question.  Say we beat Clemson and finish the season 10-2.  KJ gets a month to heal and we make the playoffs based on beating Clemson, Alabama and Georgia but don't go to the SEC championship game (like Alabama beats us in a different tie break scenario).  Food for thought.

I SINCERELY doubt Auburn makes the playoffs with 2 losses if we don't win even our own division...and even if we do, I'm not sure Kerryon would have been healed enough to make a difference. We probably would have won the bowl game, though, because the team wouldn't have been so let down from not making it into the playoffs. Regardless, though, the point is that it's a little pessimistic to label a 10 win season failure because of 4 losses when one of those losses came in a bonus championship game.

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15 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

As far as comparisons with those coaches are concerned, I would say Malzahn started at a much stronger school than any coach on that list besides Fisher at FSU. Better facilities. Better personnel. Better name brand. Better fan support.

 

12 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Better competition, too. Be sure not to leave that one out.

Not necessarily, if you consider where some of them coached. I would say Mack Brown, at Tulane and then NC, faced tougher competition based on what he had vs his opponents. And Sabn at Michigan State. He was likely playing against Michigan and Ohio State every year. And MIles at OK state was in a weaker position than Gus at Auburn

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1 hour ago, TigerHorn said:

Good thoughts. Of that crew, Saban, Swinney and Fisher arguably started out with much easier schedules in conferences that weren't as top to bottom strong as the SEC West, much less the entire SEC. Now that I think about it, CPD had an up-down bammer (and lost two that he absolutely should not have) and a UGA in Dooley's twilight years to deal with, facing Hershel what, twice? Shug really only had bammer and occasionally UT to deal with.

CGM has faced the best MSU team in its history, one of the best UGA teams in their history last year going 1-1 against them, a Texas A&M team that is never easy, some of LSU's more talented teams, and the bammer monstrosity of unlimited recruiting, not to mention a couple of loaded OM teams. This year we get a resurgent UF under the guy who built MSU into its first ever top 5 ranking. 

The UT loss last year really hurts, as do a few others, but I am pretty certain that we will really have to catch lightning in a bottle again to get a coach who can do any better with the level of competition we have now and the disadvantages in recruiting vs the bammer, UGA and LSU machines. Just think, we coulda had Sgt Carter - he was a dream hire according to many on these boards. Or Turner Gill. Or Willie Taggart. Or another dream hire, Will Muschamp.

Forget the SEC's UT, look at the example set by UT Austin, who got impatient with Fred Akers. Took them 20 years to get a few good years out of Mack Brown, and the best of those came with a guy under center who was every bit Cam's equal. Texas has every advantage Auburn will never have, and more money than bammer, UGA and UF combined. 

You can't just fire a guy and wave a magic wand to clone Saban. Let's see if Gus can pull out 9 this year. 

Anybody who wants that is very foolish.....and very ignorant about who that little tyrant really is. Gus may not be as successful yet as a coach...but at least he's a good man.

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At the end of the day, all of this ado will be about nothing. We are currently in a result driven landscape. Time is of the essence and we don’t have much time to keep waiting for us to turn the corner. Some of those circumstances are shaped by context, pay, school type, etc so it’s hard to just compare based on stats of the first 6-7 years. Quite frankly, I believe this year will be the deciding factor. Particularly next week. That game has the feel of the LSU-Auburn game of 2016 I believe which seemingly determined the fate of two coaches. Gus survived and Les ended up with the boot. So I am excited to finally have a defining answer. No more grey area.

Edited by DAG
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Just now, Tigerbelle said:

Anybody who wants that is very foolish.....and very ignorant about who that little tyrant really is. Gus may not be as successful yet as a coach...but at least he's a good man.

I know exactly who he is, we have two mutual "friends", or more accurately, both are friends of mine, one tolerates Saban and the other hates him. I don't have any interest in Saban at AU, or anyone like him, but some on here seem to think we can just go grab their fav up and comer and he'll win at the same clip Saban does. Not gonna happen. 

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24 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

 

Not necessarily, if you consider where some of them coached. I would say Mack Brown, at Tulane and then NC, faced tougher competition based on what he had vs his opponents. And Sabn at Michigan State. He was likely playing against Michigan and Ohio State every year. And MIles at OK state was in a weaker position than Gus at Auburn

Thank you. Circumstances dictate perspective. I’ve seen this argument before and been there, done that. It’s like when people argue Gus has the toughest job..well I would argue actually someone at Arkansas has the toughest job but that is neither here nor there. 

Edited by DAG
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7 minutes ago, DAG said:

At the end of the day, all of this ado will be about nothing. We are currently in a result driven landscape. Time is of the essence and we don’t have much time to keep waiting for us to turn the corner. Some of those circumstances are shaped by context, pay, school type, etc so it’s hard to just compare based on stats of the first 6-7 years. Quite frankly, I believe this year will be the deciding factor. Particularly next week. That game has the fee of the LSU-Auburn game of 2016 I believe which seemingly determined the fate of two coaches. Gus survived and Les ended up with the boot. So I am excited to finally have a defining answer. No more grey area.

I rather doubt this season will be the deciding factor, one way or the other. I understand what you're saying, but I think it'll be next season when Gus's fate is sealed unless we do, in fact, lose 5 games this regular season, which I still don't expect to happen.

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8 minutes ago, DAG said:

Thank you. Circumstances dictate perspective. I’ve seen this argument before and been there, done that. It’s like when people argue Gus has the toughest job..well I would argue actually someone at Arkansas has the toughest job but that is neither her nor there. 

Arkansas fans don't have the expectations that Auburn fans do. That's the difference.

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7 minutes ago, DAG said:

Thank you. Circumstances dictate perspective. I’ve seen this argument before and been there, done that. It’s like when people argue Gus has the toughest job..well I would argue actually someone at Arkansas has the toughest job but that is neither her nor there. 

Autocorrect is a pain but I couldn't help laughing at this. The toughest job in this case was neither her nor there but instead it was explaining this mess to his wife. 

Screenshot_20190910-204054~2.png

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2 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

I know exactly who he is, we have two mutual "friends", or more accurately, both are friends of mine, one tolerates Saban and the other hates him. I don't have any interest in Saban at AU, or anyone like him, but some on here seem to think we can just go grab their fav up and comer and he'll win at the same clip Saban does. Not gonna happen. 

My close friend's son played football for the nickatator. It was pure hell. And I don't mean that in a joking way. He literally felt like he was in hell. 

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1 minute ago, gr82be said:

Autocorrect is a pain but I couldn't help laughing at this. The toughest job in this case was neither her nor there but instead it was explaining this mess to his wife. 

Screenshot_20190910-204054~2.png

Oops

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@ellitor or one of the other recruiting gurus can correct me but my understanding of Gus’s online recruiting before Grimes came back was Gus picked which guys he wanted to recruit and if Auburn missed on those then there weren’t a plan b and Auburn was picking up whoever they could get.  My understanding now is Grimes has free reign over the recruitment of Olinemen and not surprisingly Auburn is having a decent season.  I say all that because I believe if Auburn has a better Oline there isn’t nashing of teeth.  Gus wants to line up and run all over you and then play action bomb it over your head.  Just like giving full reign of the defense to Muschamp and then Steele it sounds like he is letting go of micromanaging some other aspects of the offense.  If I’m correct then that’s a huge sign of growth.

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10 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Arkansas fans don't have the expectations that Auburn fans do. That's the difference.

Yes they do and I lived in Arkansas for a substantial time so don’t even dare try to argue me down like a poster in the past has. Arkansas at one point a time , not long ago, did not have any respect for Auburn. Most of them think Gus is a clown and think he is highly overrated and with the right coach they can be back to the Petrino days. Do they expect to win a SEC championship every year? No! But they do expect to win at least 9 games a year most years with an opportunity to compete for the west title. This is a lot coming from a school who does not have the resources we have. Mind you, most of our fans don’t expect to win an SEC championship game every year either . Most of us want consistent 9 win seasons with the opportunity to go to the playoffs when we have the right squad. As you can see, Arkansas has changed several coaches in the last few years. Their new coach will be on a hot seat after this year from the fan base, based on their performance. Gus has had ample amount of time. In fact , historical, Auburn has shown quite a bit of restraint in comparison to a lot of other schools. I don’t agree with the narrative being painted.

Edited by DAG
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8 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Autocorrect is a pain but I couldn't help laughing at this. The toughest job in this case was neither her nor there but instead it was explaining this mess to his wife. 

Screenshot_20190910-204054~2.png

I choose to believe the conspiracy theory that Bobby wasn't actually in a motorcycle accident and instead got his face rearranged by her boyfriend.

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22 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

 

Not necessarily, if you consider where some of them coached. I would say Mack Brown, at Tulane and then NC, faced tougher competition based on what he had vs his opponents. And Sabn at Michigan State. He was likely playing against Michigan and Ohio State every year. And MIles at OK state was in a weaker position than Gus at Auburn

Saban only really had OSU and UM to deal with at MSU. Rest of the conference was weak. 

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Also Arkansas got rid of a great AD in Jeff Long after the BB situation. Jeff Long did a fantastic job as their AD, balancing all of the sports, bringing them money in and also representing the brand on a national level. However, due to his hire of BB, those folks got him the hell out of the hill. They called him and his family horrible stuff and regularly referred to him as a yankee. That is why I knew Gus wasn’t going to jump at that Arkansas offer (supposedly). He is no fool. He knows how those folks can get down there from his Shiloh and Springdale 5 days. He also knows it is an uphill battle there as well. 

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1 hour ago, Rednilla said:
1 hour ago, oracle79 said:

That's a good question.  Say we beat Clemson and finish the season 10-2.  KJ gets a month to heal and we make the playoffs based on beating Clemson, Alabama and Georgia but don't go to the SEC championship game (like Alabama beats us in a different tie break scenario).  Food for thought.

I SINCERELY doubt Auburn makes the playoffs with 2 losses if we don't win even our own division...and even if we do, I'm not sure Kerryon would have been healed enough to make a difference. We probably would have won the bowl game, though, because the team wouldn't have been so let down from not making it into the playoffs. Regardless, though, the point is that it's a little pessimistic to label a 10 win season failure because of 4 losses when one of those losses came in a bonus championship game.

Since we're playing "what if" here's my take, which means absolutely zilch...

All things being equal if Auburn beats Clemson (YAY!) who do they lose to, in conference, to keep them out of the SECCG (BOO!)?

Okay, we'll pretend LSU finished undefeated in conference and went to the SECCG in place of OUR Tigers...

Therefore, Auburn finishes the regular season 11-1 and assume, also, that Auburn defeats UCF in the Hypothetical Speculation Bowl since there's no deflation from the SECCG performance, that's 12-1.

Since the reality is that Auburn didn't win the SEC anyway, I feel that 12-1 (which now includes beating Clemson, UCF & NOT losing to thUga 2.0) would make the season feel MUCH more successful than 10-4, no SECC anyway, giving the thUga win right back to them, plus the embarrassing (National Championship?) performance against UCF.

Of course, even with Auburn going 11-1 & 12-1 LSU losing the SECCG, bammer would still be in the playoffs over either Tiger team.... :drink1:

Edited by AUsince72

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2 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Saban only really had OSU and UM to deal with at MSU. Rest of the conference was weak. 

But you realize MSU was considerably weaker than the rest, right? Again perspective . The SEC east is weak but if you are coaching at Vandy, you are arguably the weakest of the weak. 

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