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Rednilla

For Comparison's Sake

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2 minutes ago, DAG said:

But you realize MSU was considerably weaker than the rest, right? Again perspective . The SEC east is weak but if you are coaching at Vandy, you are arguably the weakest of the weak. 

What James Franklin did at Vandy was one of the best coaching jobs in the last 20 years.  

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5 minutes ago, DAG said:

But you realize MSU was considerably weaker than the rest, right? Again perspective . The SEC east is weak but if you are coaching at Vandy, you are arguably the weakest of the weak. 

But unlike Vandy, MSU had some prior winning tradition. It would be more akin to coming to AU during the CPD era than it would be going to Vandy. 

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2 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

What James Franklin did at Vandy was one of the best coaching jobs in the last 20 years.  

Exactly and I think that is why perspective is important . Yes Gus was a new coach . Yes , Gus is in the toughest division in college football. But he also got his first power 5 gig at a school that he knows. A school that he recruited at. A school who just so happened to have won the NC two years prior. It’s not like he walked into a program and had no idea what he was getting in to. This was the perfect scenario for both Auburn and Gus. 

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13 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

But unlike Vandy, MSU had some prior winning tradition. It would be more akin to coming to AU during the CPD era than it would be going to Vandy. 

I am too young to know Pat Dye but I am saying Michigan State had a lot more worries than just Michigan and tOSU when Saban arrived. He inherited a BAD program, who just had to vacate wins  and he left them in a very good state. You don’t have to like the guy but let’s acknowledge that at least. But you are right , Vandy is an exaggeration. They weren’t that horrible but they were more than not a middle of the road team in an already weaker conference.

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46 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

 

Not necessarily, if you consider where some of them coached. I would say Mack Brown, at Tulane and then NC, faced tougher competition based on what he had vs his opponents. And Sabn at Michigan State. He was likely playing against Michigan and Ohio State every year. And MIles at OK state was in a weaker position than Gus at Auburn

 

19 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

Saban only really had OSU and UM to deal with at MSU. Rest of the conference was weak. 

Not true. Saban was at MSU from '95 to '99. Wisconsin was coached by Barry Alvarez and went to 4 bowls, including 2 Rose bowls. Penn State was in the Big 10 and went to bowl games every year Saban was at MSU. Northwestern went to the Citrus in '96. So it wasn't OSU, MIchigan and a bunch of patsies.

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1 minute ago, SumterAubie said:

 

Not true. Saban was at MSU from '95 to '99. Wisconsin was coached by Barry Alvarez and went to 4 bowls, including 2 Rose bowls. Penn State was in the Big 10 and went to bowl games every year Saban was at MSU. Northwestern went to the Citrus in '96. So it wasn't OSU, MIchigan and a bunch of patsies.

I forgot all about penn state 

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How long has it been since we’ve seen the following? AU takes an opening kickoff and drives 75 yards for a touchdown. No 2d down and 14 yards to go situations, no dropped passes, no blown up screen passes, no fumbles, no overthrowing receivers, no penalties . Just a good clean drive that looks like a result of good game planning and execution. It has become the rule and not the exception for Gus’s offense is to stutter and stumble for the first quarter or two. That has to stop. Until it does, Gus is going to catch heat. He needs to put a clean and polished product on the field in the early parts of games, and it has been a while since that has happened. 

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2 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Look, I'm not saying that Gus is a genius, nor that he is definitely going to turn into a great coach as he gets experience. I'm just pointing out that maybe some of you are being overly critical of a coach who hasn't had a whole lot of time to develop at the college level. It's certainly possible that he won't ever develop, and quite frankly, that's the direction I'm starting to lean. However, not everything is doom and gloom, as many on here would have you believe.

IMO overly critical would be in year two. This is year seven.

that it even has to be mentioned is frustrating. The criticism is well earned at this point. Other who say otherwise seem to lack objectivity or leave out the context, such as in the OP. Raw coaching record is meaningless.

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1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

How long has it been since we’ve seen the following? AU takes an opening kickoff and drives 75 yards for a touchdown. No 2d down and 14 yards to go situations, no dropped passes, no blown up screen passes, no fumbles, no overthrowing receivers, no penalties . Just a good clean drive that looks like a result of good game planning and execution

FRANKLIN AMERICAN MORTGAGE MUSIC CITY BOWL

  • 1st & 10 at AUB 25

    (14:54 - 1st) Jarrett Stidham pass complete to Ryan Davis for 6 yds to the Aub 31

  • 2nd & 4 at AUB 31

    (14:34 - 1st) Kam Martin run for 3 yds to the Aub 34

  • 3rd & 1 at AUB 34

    (13:57 - 1st) Jarrett Stidham pass complete to JaTarvious Whitlow for 66 yds for a TD (Anders Carlson KICK

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2 hours ago, Win4AU said:

my understanding of Gus’s online recruiting before Grimes came back was Gus picked which guys he wanted to recruit

@Win4AU Correct with help from Horton who was the recruiting coordinator at 1 time.

2 hours ago, Win4AU said:

if Auburn missed on those then there weren’t a plan b and Auburn was picking up whoever they could get.

Not always. Hence the classes with only 2 or 3 OL in it.

2 hours ago, Win4AU said:

My understanding now is Grimes has free reign over the recruitment of Olinemen

Incorrect. Dilly is running OL recruiting & the OL board. Gus likely still has heavy input. Sounds like JB is at least being listened to now though as he wanted Cohen bad & he's now committed.

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10 hours ago, bigbird said:

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but for me it's not necessarily the record. It's, after 7 years, the complete mess we look offensively. Stale play calling, telegraphed plays, poor player utilization, bad passing concepts, little to no evolution, lack of rhythm, terrible player development, etc. These are some of the things that bother me about Gus. It's not his record (which isn't great with inexplicable losses and  game plans), it's not his handling of players, it's not discipline, it's not recruiting, and it's not him being the face of the program.  The coaches being compared in the OP are different in that each one of them evolved over their initial seasons...maybe not Les, but he's at Kansas for a reason. Gus hasn't evolved and in some areas has seemed to devolve from the coach we thought we were bringing in. He was brought in to run a high powered, explosive offense. We haven't had one since 2014. That's what I'm upset with, not his OJT or his record 

Remember that one time when you said exactly what I was thinking 

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Gus’s winning percentage is certainly similar to those listed in the op for sure. If we are using that as somewhat of a comparison, I wonder what kind of salary those other men were making during those comparative years? Would be interesting to see what Shug, Saban, Dabo, Coach Dye etc were valued at during their first few years compared to what we are paying for Gus. Apples to apples and all.  

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I always laugh when Gus' gets compared to Saban, and then people throw out the moral characteristics of each man like that somehow matters.   I understand high moral character rates high on the scale at Auburn, at least it is a top priority until AU finds themselves dealing with the sketchy coaches that have run through here in the last several years.

Saban is NOT CGM's problem. Auburn has found a way to lose 25 games the last 5 yrs and uat only counts as 4 of those.  If the only program Gus was losing to was uat, then he'd be sitting pretty atop the national rankings at the end of every season.  He'd have his program consistently competing for championships and he'd actually be among the elite HC's in the nation.  Alas, that is not the case and it's damn sure not Saban's fault.

Edited by keesler
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55 minutes ago, NoALtiger said:

Gus’s winning percentage is certainly similar to those listed in the op for sure. If we are using that as somewhat of a comparison, I wonder what kind of salary those other men were making during those comparative years? Would be interesting to see what Shug, Saban, Dabo, Coach Dye etc were valued at during their first few years compared to what we are paying for Gus. Apples to apples and all.  

After ten years at Michigan State he maxed at $697, 330.  Half of what the highest paid coaches were making at the time.  Fullmer and Spurrier were only SEC coaches at time making over $1 million.

Dabo signed a new contract in 2013 that he got in 2014 that paid him $3.15 million a year after 5 seasons. He got another raise in 2016 and again last year

I believe Gus's initial contract signed in 2012 was 5 years at $34 million.  Plus 2 cars with gas, insurance and service and maintenance included.

 

Also someone made the comment that it took Dabo forever to win a National Championship.  Year by year record as a first time head coach at CLEMSON.

9-5, 6-7, 10-4 11-2, 11-2, 10-3, 14-1, 14-1, 12-2, 15-0

 

Seems like some guys earned their contracts differently.

Edited by auburnphan
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I really feel it’s our overall league record and our abysmal record against our primary rivals that really gets people mad, not our overall winning percentage during the Malzahn era. Who we lose to and how we’ve lost plays a huge factor in to this, for good or bad. 

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1 minute ago, NoALtiger said:

I really feel it’s our overall league record and our abysmal record against our primary rivals that really gets people mad, not our overall winning percentage during the Malzahn era. Who we lose to and how we’ve lost plays a huge factor in to this, for good or bad. 

This has been said millions of times my friend but it seems to be continuously ignored .

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None of those coaches were making top 10 salaries either. Combine this with the extreme deficiencies bird spoke of and you have an overpaid hack who is either too stubborn or stupid to admit his O is obsolete and  needs to let go, hire a new OC outside his tree and give them autonomy. 

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17 hours ago, Rednilla said:

People on this board seem to forget that, relatively speaking, Gus Malzahn is pretty new to head coaching in college football. In fact, less than 15 years ago, he was still coaching in the high school ranks. In another thread, I decided to compare his first seven seasons to the first seven seasons of each college head coach with a national championship on his resume, as well as two Auburn legends:

Malzahn 62-30 (.674 winning percentage)

Nick Saban 51-30 (.630)
Dabo Swinney 61-26 (.701)
Les Miles 62-27 (.697)
Jimbo Fisher 78-17 (.821)
Mack Brown 26-51 (.338)

Pat Dye 54-23 (.701)
Shug Jordan 47-24-2 (.658)

What this shows is that Gus is not doing that poorly so far. Yes, it has been frustrating to be mediocre in 4 of his first 6 seasons on the Plains, but perhaps we should give him a little more slack than some have been allowing. Call me a sunshine pumper if you like; however, I, for one, do not believe I would like it too much if Malzahn were to be fired and then take his experience elsewhere and shine, rather than building upon the experience he has gained at Auburn and sticking around to be an all-time great. Opinions certainly vary as to whether that would happen or not in either case, but given the current state of recruiting, not to mention the depth of the SEC West, does it really make sense to throw Gus under the bus and hope we find a better fit when there is so much uncertainty in finding the "right" coach?

You know what they say...perspective is reality and hindsight is 50/50...

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3 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

None of those coaches were making top 10 salaries either. Combine this with the extreme deficiencies bird spoke of and you have an overpaid hack who is either too stubborn or stupid to admit his O is obsolete and  needs to let go, hire a new OC outside his tree and give them autonomy. 

What Auburn pays Gus is not Gus' fault...jes sayin'

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Just now, Swamp Eagle said:

What Auburn pays Gus is not Gus' fault...jes sayin'

This is the dumbest comment ever. To make an argument that pay and performance dont have ties. 

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21 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

This is the dumbest comment ever. To make an argument that pay and performance dont have ties. 

Evidently you have experience being paid a salary in excess of your abilities...

Edited by Swamp Eagle

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15 hours ago, gr82be said:

There have been many times over Gus's tenure that receivers were open over the middle and nobody threw to them. It's like they were invisible or something. I have no idea why I'm going to say this but I have a feeling that once Bo gets a little more comfortable with the speed of the game and where all of his receivers are on the field he might make more use of the middle than others have. I know, it wouldn't take much to make that happen but I really think he will. 

I feel kind of sorry for Bo. Yes, he is a legacy player with skills. Choosing to play for Gus was probably not in his best interest if he wants to play pro ball. He has shown that unlike Stidham, he can at least throw the ball away while running for his life. Stidham is now the back-up QB for the Pats. Hopefully Bo will survive to play at the next level also.

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Gus makes more money than Kirby Smart and Dabo Swinney...

Do we want to talk about Kirby's first 4 years?

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3 minutes ago, Hspoprn said:

Choosing to play for Gus

Pretty sure he chose to play for Auburn not Gus FWIW

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23 hours ago, abw0004 said:

I would take Fisher out for now.  He has only been at A&M for one season and two games.  And same to Mullen.  He has proven so far at Florida he is not above Gus, even with his schedule in the East.  And a lot of people rely on transfer QB's.  Lincoln Riley has only ever had transfer QB's.

Mullen's proven to be better than Gus IMO. Mullen never recruited in the same stratosphere as Gus/Auburn yet has split the series evenly with us. Mullen is basically matching Gus with one hand.

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