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Idea of paying players


TigerHorn

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4 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

You need to go back and check that order.

Quick review. I stated catching a ball didn't make someone better than someone slinging drinks and getting hit on by drunks. They are both students, they are both doing jobs, they both earn money for an individual. I didn't stereotype a football player. Athletes can have jobs, there is additional financial aid they can apply for in addition to their scholarships in the form of grants and financial needs.

Julie then became the legacy mediocre student just handed scholarships.

It went on from there.

Lol why would I lead off with trashing D1 athletes when I was one. BTW, tell us about your D1 experience since you are calling others out on theirs?

 

Who have I called out since you're lol. You painteda picture of an athlete having it easy and Julie super hard working. I quoted you.....then I flipped what you said because that's also the case as well....you ask why would you yeah when you're an athlete but then you trashed athletes as soon as I didn't paint Julie in her throne....that made you upset for whatever reason

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You know what it doesn't even matter....ok it was me first although I literally quoted you, somehow I quoted you before you wrote and I just showed the other side of the point but when I did that I stereotyped when you did it, you were just telling the truth I guess. My bad. Screw those athletes they get what they deserve! The academic scholarships are the true heroes even though many had a head start at being taught on the right level and things like that.....but whatever

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10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Who have I called out since you're lol. You painteda picture of an athlete having it easy and Julie super hard working. I quoted you.....then I flipped what you said because that's also the case as well....you ask why would you yeah when you're an athlete but then you trashed athletes as soon as I didn't paint Julie in her throne....that made you upset for whatever reason

Lol you called out everyone earlier I believe with the did you play D1's or stated they never played D1. Lol I don't even give a **** now to be honest after this post.

Nope. They started off equal both students, working to pay for school.

I did flip later, and stated if we are going be jerks about it then... I straight up told you why I did it at that point.

Anyway man... let's hear about you D1 days and why my view is incorrect.

 

Just to add in this was my quote and it was before yours:

Quote

I have no issue paying them if we give em like 30k a year, cut scholarships, cut books, cut living, cut stipends, and that 30k is taxed. Your job is to catch a football, you are no better than Julie that spends her nights outside of class slinging drinks and being hit on by drunks.That is her job. You make Auburn money, she makes X bar money.

This was your response:

Quote

And little Julie who is a legacy and got scholarships out of her ass even though she's just an average student isn't any better than the guy who has to spend 15 hours of his day doing what he's told.

My response lol, pay them and give them access to the same scholarships Julie was able to get. Lol there is your equality, they both have access to the same scholarships and they both get paid for providing a service while in college.

Quote

Or little Julie who is the first person in her family to ever go to college cause she busts her ass for a better life, and is pulling straight A's in a legit major, and if we are being jerks about it actually met the academic requirements to get into Auburn.

But your right, dump all the athletic scholarship stuff, pay the player 30k a year, and let them apply for the same scholarships Julie got. No issue with that.

 

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15 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Lol you called out everyone earlier I believe with the did you play D1's or stated they never played D1. Lol I don't even give a **** now to be honest after this post.

Nope. They started off equal both students, working to pay for school.

I did flip later, and stated if we are going be jerks about it then... I straight up told you why I did it at that point.

Anyway man... let's hear about you D1 days and why my view is incorrect.

Nah I didn't call anyone out and I said I was done wasn't going to change your mind and you have plenty of posts you can read as to why your view is incorrect. And most on here know me you have plenty of posts of mine as you can see why I know the things I know as well if you're really interested

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35 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

You need to go back and check that order.

Quick review. I stated catching a ball didn't make someone better than someone slinging drinks and getting hit on by drunks. They are both students, they are both doing jobs, they both earn money for an individual. I didn't stereotype a football player. Athletes can have jobs, there is additional financial aid they can apply for in addition to their scholarships in the form of grants and financial needs.

Julie then became the legacy mediocre student just handed scholarships.

It went on from there.

Lol why would I lead off with trashing D1 athletes when I was one. BTW, tell us about your D1 experience since you are calling others out on theirs?

 

Salute to you for D1. I played D2 and I thought that was insane so I couldn’t imagine D1. Lucky for me thought I did get a full scholarship being a dual athlete. The fact that you worked and played D1 is admirable. 

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10 hours ago, McLoofus said:

 

Maybe the NCAA's missing a great opportunity for a massive new revenue stream. Just popped into my head and haven't thought it through *at all*, but maybe they set up an online marketplace that they control and allow athletes to do business on there? And they keep a percentage of the profits? 

Limit order quantities. Use Captcha to combat booster-funded robots. Etc. etc. 

 

 

Sounds a lot like Bama’s T Town Menswear setup. 😅

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14 minutes ago, DAG said:

Salute to you for D1. I played D2 and I thought that was insane so I couldn’t imagine D1. Lucky for me thought I did get a full scholarship being a dual athlete. The fact that you worked and played D1 is admirable. 

Well I played D1 golf for Auburn buddy so give me some credit

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9 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Well I played D1 golf for Auburn buddy so give me some credit

These programs likely go under without football bucks. Or at least their current lifestyle of luxurious facilities and such would change. I have been to the AU Golf fieldhouse several times, it's not a mansion but it's still pretty nice. 

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1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

These programs likely go under without football bucks. Or at least their current lifestyle of luxurious facilities and such would change. I have been to the AU Golf fieldhouse several times, it's not a mansion but it's still pretty nice. 

Its OK...... not Okie St good.

Hell almost all Power 5 schools would shut down all they sports programs w/o football. 

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Here is the kicker that everyone fails to mention. And many aren't even aware of it. I work in TV so I have seen this first hand.

These outrageous TV contracts were made before cutting the cord became a thing. Now people are leaving cable in droves for streaming services. Sports are the singular reason that cable is still hanging on by a thread. But Hulu and others have started streaming live sports. Bottomline is cable doesn't have long to live.

There is a good chance that college football has peaked in terms of revenue. When these TV contracts are renewed in a few years, I doubt these conferences will get the mega cash they did from TV networks previously. People aren't watching TV anymore. I don't know how ESPN, Hulu, Fox Sports, Netflix, or any/all media giants of the future will structure the deals. 

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1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

 

There is a good chance that college football has peaked in terms of revenue. When these TV contracts are renewed in a few years, I doubt these conferences will get the mega cash they did from TV networks previously. People aren't watching TV anymore. I don't know how ESPN, Hulu, Fox Sports, Netflix, or any/all media giants of the future will structure the deals. 

This I could see happening need to get their act together

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OK - Lets Play "Pay the Players!"

Hi - I'm oldfeller from payroll and we need to get your players paid.  Here's our starting point: I stole this -- I'm assuming it's correct but.... it may be wrong

Auburn University competes in the NCAA I (SEC) and performs on and off the field.

Auburn University competes in 22 sports and has a total of 578 student athletes: 315 men and 263 women.

Total Sports Related Revenues $105,951,256
Total Sports Related Expenses $96,315,836
Net $9,635,420

 

Auburn is one of only a few school that are net positive in sports.   As you work this out remember any additional benefits above what we do will be paid for from the general budget.  The 9.635 mil above is applied to the general scholarship fund at AU.  For Alabama, it works out to right at 1000 per student that athletics helps toward general tuition.  We will start by cutting the athletics contributions to general tuition.  For most other schools they are starting with a net loss in athletics.

Of the 22 sports at Auburn only 2 are solvent

Besides tuition, books, tutors, room and board - other benefits include:

Health Insurance / Auburn provides a supplemental policy to augment your primary insurance (approx 12k / year, lower for age, higher for risk - we handle deductible and co pay  

Stipend 5586 (Applies to football only)

We have on staff doctor, training facilities, meal plans for athletes free of charge - will any of these be altered?

We pay for catastrophic injury that occurs in an event (200K+ for gym knees, an acl with rehab 35-50K, etc...)

Also if we pay them, we have fica, futa, federal and state tax.  Also, since we are over 50 employees, we are not exempt in benefit plans.  Must be the same offered to all who are employed.  Also, we may be required to hire quotas and show non-discrimination toward protected minorities.  Remember athletic ability is not a protected right - it only gets you hired as with any other professional sports team. Also you waive your rights toward early termination as I can fire you for at any time for non-performance. 

For some sports - travel expenses, uniforms and other equipment, etc. 

Also would like to include a 401K, or other matching retirement plan?  

Vision & dental?

As employees, they have the right to union and union protection laws.  Union stop clauses are only available in industries where work stoppage causes national security or safety risk, or catastrophic damage.  Athletics does not qualify for exemption.

I have 578 possible payees in 22 NCAA sanction competitive sports.  Do we pay all of them or some of them? 

Is it a fixed amount, vary by sport, or performance within a sport?

Do we alter any of the current benefits above?

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To help I dug this up from 2016-2017 regarding other expenses 

Recruiting: $2.2 million
Team travel: $5.7 million
Sports equipment: $5.4 million
Game expenses: $3 million
Fundraising, marketing promotion: $4.3 million
Spirit groups: $509,826
Facilities debt service: $12.9 million
Direct overhead and administrative expenses: $13.3 million
Medical, insurance: $980,666
Membership, dues: $189,617
Student-athlete meals: $1.5 million
Other operating expenses: $9.5 million
Bowl expenses: $2.3 million

remember to add coaches and administrative salaries, facility expansion and maintenance costs, and of course student scholarship and support 

In your business, your paying for a lot more than your players.Also keep in mind 14 NBA teams are operating at a net loss.  I know you can do better than them with your tiny 578 athletes to support.

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Not sure if this has been mentioned but student athletes already get a stipend of @ $800 or so a month. 

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For those who want to take the pay the players challenge (someone please do and find a way to make the numbers work) here are some numbers you can start with.  Compare these earned income numbers in various sports to the value for the scholarships and training programs offered to the student athletes  

If you're a pro level then go pro.  Otherwise most are getting a heck of a deal.  Less than 2% go pro.  98% get paid with a scholarship.  Let me spell it out.  450200 current NCAA student athletes will not be pro - but yet compensated from around starting 40K to upwards of 460K over 4-5 years for playing for their school. I'm actually getting aggravated at anyone who is trying to mess this up.  This current system is awesome. 


Minor League Basketball (G League) is floored at $39,000 - Farm teams have no floor
Minor League Baseball Starts at 1100 month less club fees and taxes overtime is waived
Minor League Hockey (considered Baseball AAA equivalent) floored at 39,000 - Farm teams have no floor 

For farm teams with no floor --think working at hardees while playing for free to get your big break

Baseball
Short Season - $1150/month
Low A - $1300/month
High A - $1500/month
AA - $1700/month
AAA - $2150/month

Source
  These are all minimums, so players can negotiate higher deals. Players on 40-man MLB rosters have a minimum of $39,900/yr for rookies and $79,900 for veterans.

Hockey
ECHL - $10,790/season
AHL - $42,375/season

Source
  AHL players tend live comfortably, though not lavishly. They average $90,000-ish per season. Not a bad pay for playing the game you love. I've attended a lot of minor leagues games across multiple sports, and the AHL always delivers a quality product on the ice and genuinely feels like your watching a major league sport. The Lake Erie Monsters, for instance, just broke the single game attendance record for hockey in Ohio, despite there being an NHL team in Columbus.

Basketball
NBDL C Salary - $13,000/yr
NBDL B Salary - $19,000/yr
NBDL A Salary - $25,000/yr

Source
  As far as I can tell, these are non-negotiable. Players can agree to a specific level, but there's not really any other form of bargaining.

Soccer
NASL - Minimum $15,000/season
USL - No minimum

Source 1. Source 2
  USL players tend to make between $2,000 and $3,000 a month during the season. NASL players can earn north of $100,000 a season, but this is rare.

Arena Football League
Most players - $830/game
Rookies - $775/game
Starting QBs) - $1,080/game

Source
  Salaries used to range from $30,000 - $80,000 a year, but the leagues declared bankruptcy in 2009. Restructuring brought salaries down to around $400 a game. Players filed and won a lawsuit to raise them to their current salaries. Rough pay in this league. They used to operate their own minor league, AF2, and players were paid about $200/game there.

Women's National Basketball Association
Rookie - $35,190/yr
3 year veteran - $51,000/yr as of 2012
Max - $107,000/yr

Source 1. Source 2.
  WNBA teams have a salary cap of $878,000 (as of 2012). Some players do score endorsement deals, but most are able to stay out of poverty at least. Some WNBA teams are owned by their NBA counterparts, while others are owned by third party collectives, so significantly raising the minimum salary would be tricky.

Major League Lacrosse
Rookie - $7,000/season

Source
  Top players make $11,000/season with playoff bonuses. Interestingly, 21 players travel with the team, but only the 19 on the active roster are paid for the game, which means 2 players do not get paid despite their obligations to the team. Personally, I see that as unethical. Players tend to have full-time jobs outside of MLL - most see the league as a hobby, not a profession.

Independent Baseball Leagues
Atlantic League Baseball - $850/month
American Association - $2,000/month
Pecos League Baseball - $300/month
Frontier League Baseball - $600/month
Can-Am - $2,000/month

Source 1. Source 2. Source 3.
  There is some history of American Association producing MLB-level pitchers. The dominant ones usually end up in MiLB at least. Frontier Leaguers can range up to $1,600 a month, but is unlikely. Most teams in these leagues have salary caps under $100,000k and roster sizes limited to 20-22 players.

American Basketball Association
Minimum - $100/game
Maximum - $500/gameAAA - $2150/month

PGA TOUR Salaries $20,580-$73,445 | Glassdoor
Median golf pro - 16,904

Tennis, volleyball
  good luck - usually make money by being a club coach, income is tournament wins
 

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2 hours ago, DAG said:

Salute to you for D1. I played D2 and I thought that was insane so I couldn’t imagine D1. Lucky for me thought I did get a full scholarship being a dual athlete. The fact that you worked and played D1 is admirable. 

Thanks man. And good for you. Two sports at any level is impressive. Also I think D2, D3 work just as hard as D1 they just don't get the accolades. I couldn't imagine doing two sports. Athletics is a job and I think all athletes should get full scholarships with books at the minimum.

Lol I had a summer gig where I would wash cars for a dealer... didn't get the Brett Bohmar treatment though. I had to actually show up. Then I was able to continue playing club ball in the summers for workout/experience.

After my injury I went to Auburn and did the traditional student gig with a job.

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7 hours ago, oldaufeller said:

yep - football only - @AU =5586/yr

I don't think so. I have a friend who's daughter is on a university team sport and the stipend is more than what you posted.

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My two cents:  I could see it going either way really.  I would have to think I lean on the side of not paying athletes more than they are already paid.  Remember their stipend is on top of their food and board.  Auburn actually has the second highest stipend in the country I believe at $5,586.  Young kids like that are terrible with money and will blow it.  That goes for all kids, not just athletes.  Even professional athletes are terrible with money.  At my firm we have a policy not to take on athletes or celebrities as clients because their financial lives are so short.  That brings me up to their next point.

Honestly, before we talk about giving these kids money, we need to talk about making our athletes take a mandatory financial planning class.  I would love to retire in Auburn and teach that class.  60% all NBA players go broke within 5 years of retirement.  78% of NFL players go bankrupt within 2 years.  I think Bruce Pearl had a wonderful solution if we ever go the route of paying athletes: set up an annuity for each player that can be obtained at graduation and the completion of the financial planning class.  He also mentioned that being in college helps increase the value of the kid.  His example was Zion Williamson. Pearl said he knew Zion's value went up in college to where his asking price for salary could have gone up.

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2 hours ago, oldaufeller said:

Wow - fantastic - Learn something new every day

It's a title IX regulation I believe, where all full scholarship athletes get the same stipend. My old college roommate's daughter, who played basketball at Okie State, received the same amount @ $800 a month as the football players. This is above and beyond room (apartment), utilities, board and education. Plus when traveling to events scholarship athletes get a meal per diem of @ $70.

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South Carolina getting in on this California action as well....things are changing guys.

When I was a student I linked up with an independent hip-hop artist and became his full time DJ and producer. We got picked up for several southeastern portion of tours for nationally recognized artists as well as some soon-to-be nationally recognized artists. It caused me to spend an extra year in school because of how much time I was on the road. Either way, I was being compensated for all performances. If someone tried to withhold my payment or say due to my standing as a student I was ineligible to receive payment for my hard work I would have bare knuckle boxed said person. Everyone was getting paid, the headliners, the venues, the security, the bartenders, the sound guys, the lighting guys, you name it. My point is that these kids are paying their dues right now to become professionals, as I was trying to do during that time of my life. With so much money being thrown around it makes literally no sense at all for the people generating this money to not see any of it. What kind of logic is that? These rules were put in place when no money was being made for college athletics and need to be updated.

Little Jimmy in architecture school can get a paid internship with no ramifications whatsoever at an architecture design studio. Why is it such a problem to let the kids who are putting their bodies on the line for our entertainment see some of the millions being brought in? The worst part of all of this is that NONE of the money that will be paid to the athletes will be coming from anybody's pockets on here arguing against it. Those against this concept have literally no skin in the game.

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4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Everyone was getting paid, the headliners, the venues, the security, the bartenders, the sound guys, the lighting guys, you name it. My point is that these kids are paying their dues right now to become professionals, as I was trying to do during that time of my life. With so much money being thrown around it makes literally no sense at all for the people generating this money to not see any of it. What kind of logic is that?

This is the answer to the "but they get scholarships" argument, IMO.

How much money did bama make off of Tyrone Prothro? How much did Tyrone Prothro benefit from playing football for bama? He ended up a bank teller for Christ's sake. 

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Interesting that this thread was moved to Non-AU Sports (not wrong, just interesting 😁).

This California legislation of course doesn't become effective until January 1, 2023 but where is Auburn's first game currently schedule in 2023?

At Cal.

Can't make this stuff up.😆

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3 hours ago, Tiger said:

Everyone was getting paid, the headliners, the venues, the security, the bartenders, the sound guys, the lighting guys, you name it. My point is that these kids are paying their dues right now to become professionals, as I was trying to do during that time of my life. With so much money being thrown around it makes literally no sense at all for the people generating this money to not see any of it. What kind of logic is that? These rules were put in place when no money was being made for college athletics and need to be updated.

 

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

This is the answer to the "but they get scholarships" argument, IMO.

How much money did bama make off of Tyrone Prothro? How much did Tyrone Prothro benefit from playing football for bama? He ended up a bank teller for Christ's sake. 

Tiger - I'm glad you had a job - did that job pay your tuition while at Auburn in addition to your paycheck. Yes, McLoofus I am the "but they get scholarships" crowd.  This is an open invitation to give me a number to pay them.

What they get now:

In a report dated 7/24/2018 "Auburn spends a hefty $237,162 per student on its athletic program"
I'm not sure how they got to 237,162 but I know these (averaged per each player)

Tuition Approx $50,828 / yr
Stipend: $5,586 (although I've been told it's more)
These figures are averaged across the team from the amount paid per category:
Recruiting costs: $900yr (3600 amortized over 4 yrs, but they may be 5yr or 3yr or transfer 1-2yr, basically 2600 for visits travel to recruit, etc.)
Team Travel: $5,200yr
Equipment: $4,700yr
Medical Insurance/Co-insurance: $12,000yr (is higher for football, accounts for on call doctor, etc. and enhanced coverage for football, baseball & basketball)
Additional Meals (Mostly during travel:)  $1,360
Bowl Expenses: $3,600+ (may include ring, travel, media events, ...)

Also books, tutors, free training facility and training coaches, and other  supplied intangibles.

So Auburn is compensating the athlete, on average $237,162, including at least $5,586 stipend

What is the open market value of you as a player: 

Join a farm team to work your way to the pros: (Remember you'll be paying food and rent/mortgage, probably private coach, their own insurance, club fees, travel expenses, equipment... Some of the farm teams may have some allowance for equipment and club fees.) 

Baseball

  • Short Season - $1150/month
  • Low A - $1300/month
  • High A - $1500/month
  • AA - $1700/month
  • AAA - $2150/month

Basketball

  • NBDL C Salary - $13,000/yr
  • NBDL B Salary - $19,000/yr
  • NBDL A Salary - $25,000/yr

Arena Football League

  • Most players - $830/game
  • Rookies - $775/game
  • Starting QBs) - $1,080/game

PGA TOUR Salaries $20,580-$73,445 | Glassdoor
Median golf pro - 16,904

If you can make an NFL practice squad $122,400, otherwise you'll have to go to a scout team maybe as much as 60K, 

So tell me, how much more than 237,162 is each player worth?  Are we shorting them at near a quarter mil a year? How about compared to their open market value? (see above!)  Try assessing their worth by considering how much they'd get quitting a scholar athlete program and joining one of the above farm teams.  Also throw in volleyball, tennis, golf, womens's softball & bball, field & track, gymnastics.  I'm not hostile to the idea.  Give me a number of how much a college player is worth and justify why I should compensate  him much, much more that a pro in a farm team.  

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