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Arkansas post game


Maverick.AU

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15 hours ago, DAG said:

Just playing devils advocate but if Gus did win this and then lose to say UGA, people will go back to blasting him. I think these three next games with our rivals will be a war. I don’t care how bad UGA looked against UK & USCe , they won’t come out that way against us and don’t be surprised if they beat UF. 

I will absolutely blast Gus if our offense fails to show up in any game. 

 

11 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

and profanity-laced drinking gets old

As does the drinking-laced profanity. I mean, I accept my role in both, buuuuut... 

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18 hours ago, ellitor said:

It happened. I don't remember which recruit. Maybe @WarDamnEagleWDE does...

Pretty sure this happened but it's not something that I've said here.

The other stuff about Grimes and Hand having little to say of which OL to recruit is 100% true. Gus has backed off of this in this cycle but damn. The damage has been done.

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10 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

. Bo has to get better at seeing some of these wide open guys too, he’s missed several wide open drags in the past few games, but we have the guys to make plays in the short passing game and guys that can make plays on the deep stuff when guys start to cheat down 

That's the issue IMO....a slant is a dangerous pass if the QB is not on target ....see lots of them bobbled and intercepted if timing is bad.   Just thinking that Bo has to demonstrate much better accuracy before we throw the ball over the middle very much. And need some better route running because a lot depends on the receiver being where he is supposed to be. 

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11 hours ago, AU64 said:

And has Stove lost his job as the sweep man? 

Maybe he can be the screen man now. Goodness knows we wouldn't want to overburden him with the weight of being a complete WR.

10 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

Stove only had the sweep man job Bc of of Schwartz’s injury 

Actually, Stove had 30 carries for over 300 yards in 2017. He was the one who got hurt last year. Schwartz is obviously a freak but Stove is an extremely talented and savvy ball carrier. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mix of the two this season. 

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5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That's the issue IMO....a slant is a dangerous pass if the QB is not on target ....see lots of them bobbled and intercepted if timing is bad.   Just thinking that Bo has to demonstrate much better accuracy before we throw the ball over the middle very much. And need some better route running because a lot depends on the receiver being where he is supposed to be. 

Pretty nuts that this has been the case for every single one of Gus's QBs. Almost makes you wonder if there's a constant...

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34 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Pretty sure this happened but it's not something that I've said here.

My bad WDE. Thought you had. It's hard to keep up with what has & hasn't been posted.

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33 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Pretty nuts that this has been the case for every single one of Gus's QBs. Almost makes you wonder if t

The constant is that it's not as easy a pass as some would make out.  ..even the pros botch it regularly.   Some guys make it look easy....that's for sure....but JMO, they are the exceptional QBs.....and we have not had any of those....yet.      And if the QB and WRs have not demonstrated the ability to get the timing right, why risk it?   There are lots of other options available. 

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Just now, AU64 said:

The constant is that it's not as easy a pass as some would make out.  ..even the pros botch it regularly.   Some guys make it look easy....that's for sure....but JMO, they are the exceptional QBs.....and we have not had any of those....yet.      And if the QB and WRs have not demonstrated the ability to get the timing right, why risk it?   There are lots of other options available. 

And yet most decent offenses do it on occasion. And most staffs for good programs don't have to blame the same deficiencies on their players year after year, roster after roster.

 

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And yet most decent offenses do it on occasion. And most staffs for good programs don't have to blame the same deficiencies on their players year after year, roster after roster.

 

And so does Auburn.    You do what you can do.....the players have to do the execution.   Can't understand the idea of pre-determining that a particular play is a good call if the players are not able to execute it well.   Bo has been under his father's tutelage for his entire life and Dilly has had him a few months.  Give it time. 

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3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

And so does Auburn.    You do what you can do.....the players have to do the execution.   Can't understand the idea of pre-determining that a particular play is a good call if the players are not able to execute it well.   Bo has been under his father's tutelage for his entire life and Dilly has had him a few months.  Give it time. 

What is incomprehensible is the notion that we've actually had numerous different QBs and lineups that have been incapable of it. 

Also, are you certain that Bo wasn't successful throwing slants in high school (under his father's tutelage, which I guess is relavant?)? 

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5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Bo has been under his father's tutelage for his entire life and Dilly has had him a few months.  Give it time. 

Slants aren't difficult throws, for the record. A three-step slant is probably one of the first throws Bo learned how to make in Pop-Warner or middle school. It's a fundamental throw and a fundamental route. 

Bo has been asked to make much more difficult throws in each game we've played so far. 

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50 minutes ago, AU64 said:

That's the issue IMO....a slant is a dangerous pass if the QB is not on target ....see lots of them bobbled and intercepted if timing is bad.   Just thinking that Bo has to demonstrate much better accuracy before we throw the ball over the middle very much. And need some better route running because a lot depends on the receiver being where he is supposed to be. 

 

44 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Pretty nuts that this has been the case for every single one of Gus's QBs. Almost makes you wonder if there's a constant...

 

6 minutes ago, AU64 said:

The constant is that it's not as easy a pass as some would make out.  ..even the pros botch it regularly.   Some guys make it look easy....that's for sure....but JMO, they are the exceptional QBs.....and we have not had any of those....yet.      And if the QB and WRs have not demonstrated the ability to get the timing right, why risk it?   There are lots of other options available. 

 

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And yet most decent offenses do it on occasion. And most staffs for good programs don't have to blame the same deficiencies on their players year after year, roster after roster.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

And so does Auburn.    You do what you can do.....the players have to do the execution.   Can't understand the idea of pre-determining that a particular play is a good call if the players are not able to execute it well.   Bo has been under his father's tutelage for his entire life and Dilly has had him a few months.  Give it time. 

 

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

What is incomprehensible is the notion that we've actually had numerous different QBs and lineups that have been incapable of it. 

Also, are you certain that Bo wasn't successful throwing slants in high school (under his father's tutelage, which I guess is relavant?)? 

 

I see what you guys are saying and both have a point.

Its a constant because the slant is a route that's used by balanced to pass-happy offenses. Lets look at the makeup of balanced and pass-happy offenses:

1. A QB that has been trained on precision throws and accuracy. Doesn't need to have a big arm because those throws aren't necessary when you can slice and dice a D in the intermediate game. 
2. A VARIED ROUTE Selection. Plenty of different formations and ways to run routes as well as concepts that will always attack multiple portions of the field at once.
                   2a. As a result of having many different routes, WRs are much more polished and savvy route runners. They tend to have much more nuance, are skilled in body positioning, know when and how to break routes off to disadvantage DBs whether they're in catch or trail positions. This means that those SLANT ROUTES become much higher percentage throws because the separation is there or the WR if they're larger can wall off a DB completely. This is the most necessary aspect of offenses with more passing complexity than ours. 

3. Because you're throwing to get yards more, the formations and splits are further. OLs are also split out a lot further spacing edge rushers out even more. Sometimes these can be cartoonishly wide splits so it definitely has an effect on timing. Since the QB will be passing a lot, the D gets more pass rush opportunities and the way to make sure that this isn't a disadvantage is to give the QB more time by this minute detail. WRs and TEs will also have more room because they don't have to keep up the formality of blocking for run plays since their tendency is that they'll be running routes. This opens up those higher percentage throws because it allows for factor 2a. to be put to use. 

 

 Now in our offense we have almost the opposite of this. Yes we will sometimes open up and spread out but its not a tendency. Look at our WRs. Hastings is by far considered our best route runner as a slot specialist and even he is still really just a glorified speed threat. That's a very telling sign of our offense. When you look at all our TOP WRs we have sent to the NFL, most of them are either deep threats, gadget guys, or big bodies and almost all of them have huge difficulty in adjusting to the pro game because they weren't required to run many routes. 

In-breaking routes take the most practice as a route runner because of timing and being SHARP out of breaks as well as being able to drop your body's center of gravity. Those are specific and difficult skills to learn that must be drilled but our passing attack doesn't feature those so when we add them into the gameplan on a whim, you get a lot of bad mechanics and rounding of routes. That paired with the fact that none of our QBs selected have been "surgeons from the pocket" basically means that those throws are much harder than they need to be. This includes slants.

 

5 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Slants aren't difficult throws, for the record. A three-step slant is probably one of the first throws Bo learned how to make in Pop-Warner or middle school. It's a fundamental throw and a fundamental route. 

Bo has been asked to make much more difficult throws in each game we've played so far. 


I think slants are difficult if you're not a particularly accurate QB (in college and beyond) because of the need to drive the ball in front of the receiver and yet leave it there in a way that allows them to get YAC. The problem is that Bo is being billed as a Brees in terms of accuracy when he is really closer to a Trubisky. And then our WRs probably haven't drilled it enough because its not a staple so there is also that.... 

Nonetheless, going forward if we continue with this approach of "Getting our Freshman QB more comfortable by making him throw more" then we will need to slant things in his favor by asking our WRs to be better in their execution and actually DRILLING these things a bit more in practice. You can't throw as a replacement for the run when the run gets shut down if your WRs aren't going to execute the short and intermediate game with the precision it requires to make up for your inaccurate QB. Separation cures all and separation of shorter routes are all about technique not speed. 

Also begs the question, if we aren't prepared to help Bo in the capacity that he needs, why isn't he sitting so he can develop and so that we can shape the team for him? Seeing a lot of SW (Sean White) coming from him these past 2 outings.

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3 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Its a constant because the slant is a route that's used by balanced to pass-happy offenses. Lets look at the makeup of balanced and pass-happy offenses:

1. A QB that has been trained on precision throws and accuracy. Doesn't need to have a big arm because those throws aren't necessary when you can slice and dice a D in the intermediate game. 
2. A VARIED ROUTE Selection. Plenty of different formations and ways to run routes as well as concepts that will always attack multiple portions of the field at once.
                   2a. As a result of having many different routes, WRs are much more polished and savvy route runners. They tend to have much more nuance, are skilled in body positioning, know when and how to break routes off to disadvantage DBs whether they're in catch or trail positions. This means that those SLANT ROUTES become much higher percentage throws because the separation is there or the WR if they're larger can wall off a DB completely. This is the most necessary aspect of offenses with more passing complexity than ours. 

3. Because you're throwing to get yards more, the formations and splits are further. OLs are also split out a lot further spacing edge rushers out even more. Sometimes these can be cartoonishly wide splits so it definitely has an effect on timing. Since the QB will be passing a lot, the D gets more pass rush opportunities and the way to make sure that this isn't a disadvantage is to give the QB more time by this minute detail. WRs and TEs will also have more room because they don't have to keep up the formality of blocking for run plays since their tendency is that they'll be running routes. This opens up those higher percentage throws because it allows for factor 2a. to be put to use. 

 Now in our offense we have almost the opposite of this.

Totally agree. And, to my way of thinking, this actually demonstrates what I was trying to say. Because you basically described the offense ran by the team that just drafted the last QB who Gus deemed incapable of doing any of that. 

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1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Totally agree. And, to my way of thinking, this actually demonstrates what I was trying to say. Because you basically described the offense ran by the team that just drafted the last QB who Gus deemed incapable of doing any of that. 

I can do an entirely different analysis on Jackson because I will go on record having said that the kid was going to be a phenom before he even played against us at Louisville. 

His development year to year is astounding...

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2 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I think slants are difficult if you're not a particularly accurate QB (in college and beyond) because of the need to drive the ball in front of the receiver and yet leave it there in a way that allows them to get YAC. 

I don't buy that Bo isn't accurate enough to throw a slant route. 

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1 minute ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I can do an entirely different analysis on Jackson because I will go on record having said that the kid was going to be a phenom before he even played against us at Louisville. 

His development year to year is astounding...

Maaaaaaaan, he is amazing! Just unreal what he is doing. I'm just sad I only have him on one of my four fantasy teams :laugh:

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6 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

I don't buy that Bo isn't accurate enough to throw a slant route. 

I'm not saying that he isn't. But what I am saying is that in college, where DBs learn to take away slants and have trained to counter them, the slant ISNT an easy gimme throw that any QB can just step up and repeatedly hit for great effect. It becomes a much tougher throw to make for a QB that's not 60-70% completion accurate by trade it (without really technical WRs that know how to make the route easy in their sleep). Bo is not an accurate QB by trade. High school or college, so naturally the slant will be tougher for him in a defensive conference like the SEC If the WRs aren't giving him good help. 

 

This is more of a knock on our WRs than it is Bo.

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38 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I'm not saying that he isn't. But what I am saying is that in college, where DBs learn to take away slants and have trained to counter them, the slant ISNT an easy gimme throw that any QB can just step up and repeatedly hit for great effect.

No well covered route is an easy throw, but we see slants run in space in both college and NFL games every week, and a slant in space IS a gimme throw. 

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2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I will absolutely blast Gus if our offense fails to show up in any game. 

 

As does the drinking-laced profanity. I mean, I accept my role in both, buuuuut... 

Blasting him for the offense not showing up is one thing. Blasting him in a loss during a hard fought game is another. Like I said previously, it is definitely conceivable for us to beat one of the big three and lose to the others. These are very quality teams.

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3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Maybe he can be the screen man now. Goodness knows we wouldn't want to overburden him with the weight of being a complete WR.

Actually, Stove had 30 carries for over 300 yards in 2017. He was the one who got hurt last year. Schwartz is obviously a freak but Stove is an extremely talented and savvy ball carrier. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mix of the two this season. 

I agree on the stove part, however I still think that if Schwartz didn’t have the hand injury heading into the season That AS would have dominated those reps, but who knows, especially since Schwartz has show his ability to get open as often as he has, Stove can still be a big sweep component in the rpo game as well.

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Just now, Maverick.AU said:

I agree on the stove part, however I still think that if Schwartz didn’t have the hand injury heading into the season That AS would have dominated those reps, but who knows, especially since Schwartz has show his ability to get open as often as he has, Stove can still be a big sweep component in the rpo game as well.

Very true. Schwartz is a beast and I'm glad that Gus rediscovered his commitment to getting him the ball. 

I hope we can find ways to feed them both, but if Schwartz ends up getting a lot more touches, you're right, it makes sense. 

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3 hours ago, AU64 said:

That's the issue IMO....a slant is a dangerous pass if the QB is not on target ....see lots of them bobbled and intercepted if timing is bad.   Just thinking that Bo has to demonstrate much better accuracy before we throw the ball over the middle very much. And need some better route running because a lot depends on the receiver being where he is supposed to be. 

To me, Bo has looked more comfortable on the slants we have thrown than most of our other routes. Anytime Bo has had plays where the ball is coming out quick he seems to have more success in terms of accuracy. He’s still struggling on some progressions and he still seems a little bit too amped when it comes to protection, we just have to scheme around our shortcomings

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2 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I'm not saying that he isn't. But what I am saying is that in college, where DBs learn to take away slants and have trained to counter them, the slant ISNT an easy gimme throw that any QB can just step up and repeatedly hit for great effect. It becomes a much tougher throw to make for a QB that's not 60-70% completion accurate by trade it (without really technical WRs that know how to make the route easy in their sleep). Bo is not an accurate QB by trade. High school or college, so naturally the slant will be tougher for him in a defensive conference like the SEC If the WRs aren't giving him good help. 

 

This is more of a knock on our WRs than it is Bo.

The only thing about it, with our Offense in the last 6-7 years idk if any team we face is worried about taking away the slant lol

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21 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Very true. Schwartz is a beast and I'm glad that Gus rediscovered his commitment to getting him the ball. 

I hope we can find ways to feed them both, but if Schwartz ends up getting a lot more touches, you're right, it makes sense. 

Schwartz is going to make the Saints really happy one day. This is the type of player their coach loves. 

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20 minutes ago, DAG said:

Schwartz is going to make the Saints really happy one day. This is the type of player their coach loves. 

It's really fun to think about the draft hype that he is going to receive. 

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