How has Gus split the fan base?

[cole256 17,043]

It's really not all that deep. People are split because people hate to be wrong. Simple as that, even the people that like to present themselves as can be wrong......those are the people to watch the most. Nobody likes to be wrong and nobody likes to admit they are wrong

[abw0004 10,110]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Have to disagree, loof is one of the most fair and objective posters on this board

He was, until this summer for some reason.  I have found he really doesn't like being proven wrong, and does not let go of a grudge.  As you can see from his above posts, he has zero interest in mending the divide either.  And from his post I quoted he takes things way out of context to suit his own needs in trying to make someone feel bad.

[keesler 5,924]

1 hour ago, AUFriction said:

I think the point he is trying to make is that the fans that are getting super bent out of shape about two top 10 losses are people who literally live for football. Their identity revolves around it, so they only care about seeing football be successful. The people that are most likely to feel that way are the sidewalk alumni, who really only connect to Auburn through sports. Of course, I knew plenty of students at Auburn that majored in football trivia, and barely went to class.

The people that are pulling for Auburn out of love for the university rather than obsession with football are less inclined to react emotionally because football is just a small piece of who they are rather than being the vast majority of their identity. Thus, those people are less emotionally invested in us being the absolute best, and are more able to rationally interpret what’s going on with the team.

 

Let me ask You a question Friction.

Are your children current students at Auburn?  Do they represent the 4th (FOURTH) generation of Auburn graduates?  Do you currently have one child in graduate school and another in undergraduate school at Auburn University?  Are you helping provide assistance for 2 nephews currently attending Auburn University just because you can't stand the thought of them missing out on the same wonderful experiences their uncle and father had?

Can you go back to WW2 era and look at pictures of your grandfather in an Auburn cap and gown, how 'bout your father during Vietnam, or look at yourself in the mid-90's at yourself?  Have you watched your own child stand proudly and walk across the stage representing the 4th generation to earn an Auburn degree?  Only to have a near heart attack when we found out they'd been accepted in to AU's graduate program.  

I react emotionally because I have a right to!

Son of a beech....somebody get me a drink.

 

 

[kevon67 2,368]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Gus is boring, safe, sometimes runs the ball a lot... He seems to appeal to a certain demographic. So there's that.

There are some people who consider the head coach an extension of the University, and therefore interpret any criticism of him as an attack on the University. So there's also that.

Also- and this is the most important thing to me- Gus is surrounded by people who are either doing a good job, or who are doing the job that he tells them to do. That is the current state of affairs as I see it. The people over whom Gus has the most control and influence are the ones who are failing. I mean, that seems almost indisputable at this point. 

And this is where emotion comes into it for me. When Gus's apologists do their apologizing, they can only do so by displacing blame onto those people around Gus. I've heard them blame the defense. I've heard them blame quarterback after quarterback. I've heard them blame other offensive players for not being talented enough. I've heard them blame the offensive coordinators that Gus has micromanaged and neutered. I've heard them blame every assistant that left and promise that all our problems were going out the door with them. And, really, they're just modeling their dude. Gus blamed our offensive performance this past Saturday on penalties. He thinks that false starts were the primary culprit in our inability to move the ball and score. He refuses to hold himself accountable, and that is reflected in his dwindling fanbase. Which means that coaches and players who are simply doing their jobs- and who are in fact responsible for Gus still having one- are being blamed for his failures. I don't know about you, but that pisses me off, and I'm going to call a spade a spade when I see it happening. It's useless and dumb, but I can't help it. 

So, that's the role I'm playing in this schism. 

Excellent post.

[abw0004 10,110]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

Let me ask You a question Friction.

Are your children current students at Auburn?  Do they represent the 4th (FOURTH) generation of Auburn graduates?  Do you currently have one child in graduate school and another in undergraduate school at Auburn University?  Are you helping provide assistance for 2 nephews currently attending Auburn University just because you can't stand the thought of them missing out on the same wonderful experiences their uncle and father had?

Can you go back to WW2 era and look at pictures of your grandfather in an Auburn cap and gown, how 'bout your father during Vietnam, or look at yourself in the mid-90's at yourself?  Have you watched your own child stand proudly and walk across the stage representing the 4th generation to earn an Auburn degree?  Only to have a near heart attack when we found out they'd been accepted in to AU's graduate program.  

I react emotionally because I have a right to!

Son of a beech....somebody get me a drink.

Maybe I am missing something if you could help clarify.  Wouldn't his post align with what you are saying?

[autigeremt 6,598]

18 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

no sir. the powers that be screwed things up badly or gus would be gone so it is on them. gus would not have had the chance to upset anyone.

There's a lot of truth in that statement. 

[Carnell 592]

18 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

why blame gus? he is only here as long as he is allowed to be. yes he comes up short but i guarantee you he wants to win as badly as anyone does. the truth is the powers that be are responsible for this.not gus. he just cannot give the fans what they want. the folks out for blood should be blaming the ones responsible. w

I have been the biggest critic of Gus but one thing I have never questioned was his desire to win.  I know Gus has that desire but the results  are not there.  Gus is the HC who else would be responsible for this.

[AUsince72 11,084]

9 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Maybe I am missing something if you could help clarify.  Wouldn't his post align with what you are saying?

Friction seems to be calling ALL realists/pessimists/haters (whatever y'all want to call them) out as being sidewalk alum.  @keesler been one of the most vocal realists (and he can ONLY go by that descriptor) calling out Gus on everything, just as much as us pessimists & haters.  Keesler's point is that through his own family experience, Friction is obviously wrong.

[SaltyTiger 7,789]

1 minute ago, autigeremt said:

There's a lot of truth in that statement. 

Much truth. Fueled by two big wins.

[kevon67 2,368]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Gus is boring, safe, sometimes runs the ball a lot... He seems to appeal to a certain demographic. So there's that.

There are some people who consider the head coach an extension of the University, and therefore interpret any criticism of him as an attack on the University. So there's also that.

Also- and this is the most important thing to me- Gus is surrounded by people who are either doing a good job, or who are doing the job that he tells them to do. That is the current state of affairs as I see it. The people over whom Gus has the most control and influence are the ones who are failing. I mean, that seems almost indisputable at this point. 

And this is where emotion comes into it for me. When Gus's apologists do their apologizing, they can only do so by displacing blame onto those people around Gus. I've heard them blame the defense. I've heard them blame quarterback after quarterback. I've heard them blame other offensive players for not being talented enough. I've heard them blame the offensive coordinators that Gus has micromanaged and neutered. I've heard them blame every assistant that left and promise that all our problems were going out the door with them. And, really, they're just modeling their dude. Gus blamed our offensive performance this past Saturday on penalties. He thinks that false starts were the primary culprit in our inability to move the ball and score. He refuses to hold himself accountable, and that is reflected in his dwindling fanbase. Which means that coaches and players who are simply doing their jobs- and who are in fact responsible for Gus still having one- are being blamed for his failures. I don't know about you, but that pisses me off, and I'm going to call a spade a spade when I see it happening. It's useless and dumb, but I can't help it. 

So, that's the role I'm playing in this schism. 

14 penalties is very much coaching.......after the Florida loss I was in shock.....not wanting to believe what I watched.......telling myself I was nutz for thinking what I was thinking.........after LSU he confirmed it and there's no going back for me.......shame on Gus.

[AUFriction 1,179]

1 hour ago, keesler said:

I see your position abw, you know what CGM was capable of doing and you hope he can do it again.

Les Miles was much more accomplished SEC HC than Gus and he had the hardware in the trophy case to prove it.  Yet, Miles absolutely refused to evolve his offense, he hired multiple OC's and he still continued to stay in the dinosaur age with those schemes, it was literally his downfall.  And as we all know, it took Orgeron a couple of years to make a change, he hired Joe Brady from the Saints to come in and flip that switch in a single off-season. 

CGM has shown no willingness to hire a staffer and allow them to can take full control of the entire offense and evolve the schemes.  He used poor judgement when evaluating some of the key players that would be needed to run his offense.  We know his deficiencies with roster management and QB development, and evaluating and recruiting an oline.  

What chaps some people is the pre-season pablum he fed the media this year.  He recognized that a change in philosophy was needed, he recognized the predictability of his scheme HAD to change.  He specifically noted that HE had to evolve the offense and create new ways to move the ball down the field.  He promised a New Day in AU's offense, yet here we are 8 games in and some of the exact same tendencies from the past are very prevalent in today's game plan.   It's maddening. 

 

Some notable problems with the criticism here:

1. You can't compare Malzahn to Miles. Miles refused to modernize his offense. He was insistent at continuing with the I Formation power run scheme and play good defense philosophy, which won't work in today's college football. It wasn't so much that Miles wouldn't change the offense at all (in fact, there were some wrinkles, including the addition of some read option). It was that Miles wouldn't change his whole method of play. You can't play ball control anymore. Offenses are just too good now to keep them all low scoring. You have to be willing to play some up-tempo, and you have to aim for big plays. Gus's offense absolutely aims to do those things. 

2. I disagree with your premise that he hasn't evolved his offense. In fact, I think we've seen more changes this year than in previous years. In 2013-15, our route tree was all vertical passing. If it wasn't the wheel route or a deep post, Gus wasn't calling it. In 2017-2018, the addition of Chip Lindsey gave us more diversity in the passing game. We added some drag routes and some different screen passes than we'd shown in the past. This year is the most diverse route tree I've seen. There's slants, corner routes, out routes, dig routes, and all the old staples we've seen for years. The only place we aren't throwing the football much is in the center of the field about 20ish yards downfield. Quite frankly, that's one of the hardest places to read, so I don't really want a freshman throwing there anyway unless it is wide freakin open. In the run game, we are doing different things with the blocking. Traditionally, its been mostly inside zone. This year, we are doing some different guard and tackle pulls. The read option has some new RPO wrinkles to it that we haven't seen before. Our sweeps and reverses look different. What would you rather do different? Run an air raid? Those kinds of offenses have all different problems. Many of the air raid teams find themselves incapable of running the ball well because they don't do it very often. Many of those offenses have a hard time going vertical because their offensive line doesn't usually have to pass block for that long (most air raid plays focus on quick release passing). Also, a lot of teams that run air raid offenses have bad defenses. It's difficult to explain, but I have a theory that those teams' soft style of offensive play makes it hard for the defense to practice being physical. Aside from becoming a pass first team (which I think is a bad decision), there's nothing more Gus can really do to "modernize" the offense. 

3. I'm not sure we even watched the same game. What I saw against LSU was an Auburn offense that could not run the football and eventually resorted to trying to put the game on the back of its freshman quarterback because nothing else seemed to be working. Bo threw the ball 35 times against LSU. There's only one game where he's thrown more... Tulane. He threw it 31 times against Oregon, and 27 against Florida. Every other game was around 20 or less. The difference is that, in the other games, we were able to run the flippin football. Talented or not, you should never put the game on the back of a true freshman. In the games where our offense struggled, that's what we did, and it was because the run game wasn't working. Our struggling offense has nothing to do with play calling. It has nothing to do with offensive philosophy. It has little to do with Bo Nix. (Nix hasn't looked great when the game was on his back, but, again, you shouldn't expect that from a freshman). Our struggling offense is struggling because we really need to have a good offensive line this year with our young QB, and we just don't. Our offensive line is terrible. With our current personnel, there's little the coaches can do about it at this point. If we were able to run the football with any success against Florida or LSU, we would have won, and probably pretty soundly. I think Gus has to accept some of the blame on that one. However, I've heard that the athletic department refused to give him money to hire another OL coach in the offseason. If that's the case, it is hard to really blame Gus much at all. He likely knew he had a problem with Grimes, and had no money to fix it. 

4. Player evaluation... I still just don't buy it. I think we're talented everywhere on this team, including the OL. Aside from penalties, I think the OTs are playing decently well. Our issue is mostly inside, where 2 of the 3 players were considered 4 star talents coming out of high school.In fact, Wanogho- 4 star; Harrell- 4 star; Kim- 4 star; Horton- 3 star; Driscoll-Graduate Transfer.  Let's also remember... that OL during the national championship season: Ziemba- 4 star; Mike Berry- 3 star; Ryan Pugh- 4 star; Byron Isome- converted DT; Brandon Mosley- JUCO transfer. This OL had more potential than the 2010 OL did. The issue is training. Herb Hand was an excellent recruiter that could coach worth a flip. It would appear that Grimes can do neither. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, kevon67 said:

14 penalties is very much coaching.......after the Florida loss I was in shock.....not wanting to believe what I watched.......telling myself I was nutz for thinking what I was thinking.........after LSU he confirmed it and there's no going back for me.......shame on Gus.

Perzactly. 

A false start in a loud environment is a mistake. 

A whole boatload is not just Dumb Players.

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Maybe I am missing something if you could help clarify.  Wouldn't his post align with what you are saying?

Possibly!  I claim innocence if I misinterpreted Friction's post.

First, I despise the term sidewalk fan.  Second, I react emotionally because I am an AU alum and I passionately love Auburn.  This whole thing about love and obsession makes no difference when this is a sports message board where everyone is allowed to discuss the things that they feel about sports.  Because we all have feelings for Auburn in any capacity whether we are alum or just walking around on a sidewalk and love Auburn just as much.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, keesler said:

Possibly!  I claim innocence if I misinterpreted Friction's post.

First, I despise the term sidewalk fan.  Second, I react emotionally because I am an AU alum and I passionately love Auburn.  This whole thing about love and obsession makes no difference when this is a sports message board where everyone is allowed to discuss the things that they feel about sports.  Because we all have feelings for Auburn in any capacity whether we are alum or just walking around on a sidewalk and love Auburn just as much.

It was an extremely insulting and dismissive post and your response was very appropriate and appreciated. 

[abw0004 10,110]

12 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Friction seems to be calling ALL realists/pessimists/haters (whatever y'all want to call them) out as being sidewalk alum.  Keesler's been one of the most vocal realists (and he can ONLY go by that descriptor) calling out Gus on everything, just as much as us pessimists & haters.  Keesler's point is that through his own family experience, Friction is obviously wrong.

Thank you for the clarification.  I do not see where @keesler had gotten this from though.  I reread Friction's post and the part Keesler bolded is referring to sidewalk alumni whose identity and happiness with the school is purely athletics.  That there is no more emotion ties to that.  And he was trying to help convey what I was saying so I will help a littler further.  My observation was based around the fact that if your only connection to Auburn is watching the sports portion you would be easily able to react quicker.  Nothing wrong with that.  I was just making a simple observation.

7 minutes ago, keesler said:

Possibly!  I claim innocence if I misinterpreted Friction's post.

First, I despise the term sidewalk fan.  Second, I react emotionally because I am an AU alum and I passionately love Auburn.  This whole thing about love and obsession makes no difference when this is a sports message board where everyone is allowed to discuss the things that they feel about sports.  Because we all have feelings for Auburn in any capacity whether we are alum or just walking around on a sidewalk and love Auburn just as much.

I think you may have misinterpreted it because he is supporting exactly what you said because you do have equity in the school.  Or at least that is what I was saying in my observation that Friction was trying to back up.  That would not make you a sidewalk alumni.  And I did also make a point that there are definitely exceptions anyways.  Think about it this way, if you did not attend Auburn, would you really care that they just opened up a new engineering wing that is state of the art?  Or that the business school received $40 million to improve the national ranking?  Probably not.

[SaltyTiger 7,789]

26 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Auburn choosing to divert funds that were not earmarked for vital operations for campus upgrades over the stadium.

Was not aware that this could happen. Did quite a bit of work for the University including Athletics in my working career. Always understood that the athletic work was paid from funds spearheaded only by that leg of the University. Treated as a different entity in ways.  

[leglessdan 1,934]

4 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Friction seems to be calling ALL realists/pessimists/haters (whatever y'all want to call them) out as being sidewalk alum.  Keesler's been one of the most vocal realists (and he can ONLY go by that descriptor) calling out Gus on everything, just as much as us pessimists & haters.  Keesler's point is that through his own family experience, Friction is obviously wrong.

I didn't know being a graduate was a prerequisite to be a fan and recognize obvious problems on a football team. I've been following Auburn SPORTS among other things for almost 35 years. During that time, spent thousands of dollars on tickets, hotel rooms, apparel. I've had arguments defending the University and the people that love it so much. I'll say what I feel needs to said about the current or the past situations. My voice or opinions or no less valid than anyone else,  I don't care what school you graduated from.

Not anything to you 72, was just piggybacking your post. Wde

[abw0004 10,110]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

Was not aware that this could happen. Did quite a bit of work for the University including Athletics in my working career. Always understood that the athletic work was paid from funds spearheaded only by that leg of the University. Treated as a different entity in ways.  

It can get tricky when it comes to donations as well as the student athlete portion.  The tax code just changed where it complicates it even further.  Donations to the school to get tickets are no longer deductible so they can only go toward the program.

[DAG 33,977]

I am not on the Gus Bus anymore but @abw0004 does have a point. Some of these divides are much deeper. Posters have personal issues with each other to the point of taking pot shots. There are times posters can say the most accurate thing but since there was a past disagreement , this will get ignored. I actually enjoy disagreements and discussion, but I do think each side as their own ride or dies. That’s just fact. The football differences are being marred within personal vendettas. I am not going to sit here and say I like every single posters, obviously from my posting experiences you guys know the obvious. But I do try to at least salute someone if they make a good point or they were right about something, regardless of the personal issues. It’s like at work, you don’t have to like everyone you work with but you should do your best to respect them in the context of it all. 

[abw0004 10,110]

3 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

I didn't know being a graduate was a prerequisite to be a fan and recognize obvious problems on a football team. I've been following Auburn SPORTS among other things for almost 35 years. During that time, spent thousands of dollars on tickets, hotel rooms, apparel. I've had arguments defending the University and the people that love it so much. I'll say what I feel needs to said about the current or the past situations. My voice or opinions or no less valid than anyone else,  I don't care what school you graduated from.

Not anything to you 72, was just piggybacking your post. Wde

So Keesler misinterpreted what was said, nor what I said at the beginning.  Here is the original post:

"I do agree with this.  I will also tag another thing onto this if you do not mind and this is something I researched in the demographics thread.  I have noticed that those who did not attend the university  for any period of time are quicker to jump on the program if it does not find the success they demand.  Those that did are slower to react or do not react as heavily.  Of course there are exceptions to this too.  I think this comes down to if you attended the school, or any school for that matter you have a lot more invested.  You spent sweat, time, and financial equity in the school so the school is more to you than a sports program.  Those that do not have this bond to the school only see it for the sports acumen.

To give an example, many want more money poured into the stadium as it is not to par with other stadiums (and it isn't to be fair).  But people like me look and see where the school is also investing in.  Outside of the stadium, we probably have the most advanced campus as far as buildings and technology.  This last year alone we had two mega buildings opened along the concourse across from Brown Hall.  So I am okay with the stadium not being as up to date because I see the other investments being made.  Auburn is a school first after all."

Does this help clarify?

•  

[leglessdan 1,934]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

So Keesler misinterpreted what was said, nor what I said at the beginning.  Here is the original post:

"I do agree with this.  I will also tag another thing onto this if you do not mind and this is something I researched in the demographics thread.  I have noticed that those who did not attend the university  for any period of time are quicker to jump on the program if it does not find the success they demand.  Those that did are slower to react or do not react as heavily.  Of course there are exceptions to this too.  I think this comes down to if you attended the school, or any school for that matter you have a lot more invested.  You spent sweat, time, and financial equity in the school so the school is more to you than a sports program.  Those that do not have this bond to the school only see it for the sports acumen.

To give an example, many want more money poured into the stadium as it is not to par with other stadiums (and it isn't to be fair).  But people like me look and see where the school is also investing in.  Outside of the stadium, we probably have the most advanced campus as far as buildings and technology.  This last year alone we had two mega buildings opened along the concourse across from Brown Hall.  So I am okay with the stadium not being as up to date because I see the other investments being made.  Auburn is a school first after all."

Does this help clarify?

•  

I don't need clarification. We're in this particular part of the forum to discuss football, not other aspects of the University.  There's no need to try and merge the two as it also has no bearing on why folks are detached from Gus and what's going on. When folks start using the term sidewalk fan/alumni crap it causes more divide. I also immediately stop taking that poster seriously. No offense intended toward you or anyone else really.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

Thank you for the clarification.  I do not see where @keesler had gotten this from though.  I reread Friction's post and the part Keesler bolded is referring to sidewalk alumni whose identity and happiness with the school is purely athletics.  That there is no more emotion ties to that.  And he was trying to help convey what I was saying so I will help a littler further.  My observation was based around the fact that if your only connection to Auburn is watching the sports portion you would be easily able to react quicker.  Nothing wrong with that.  I was just making a simple observation.

I think you may have misinterpreted it because he is supporting exactly what you said because you do have equity in the school.  Or at least that is what I was saying in my observation that Friction was trying to back up.  That would not make you a sidewalk alumni.  And I did also make a point that there are definitely exceptions.  Think about it this way, if you did not attend Auburn, would you really care that they just opened up a new engineering wing that is state of the art?  Or that the business school received $40 million to improve the national ranking?  Probably not.

To further my unrequested assistance, I believe keesler is defending the likes of me.

I am not an AU grad.  I did not attend AU.  My family could not afford out of state tuition and, even if we could,  I was too dumb to attend anyway, so I graduated from a podunk community college in Georgia. 

But, I'm all AU because I was born in Birmingham and pretty much all of my blood relatives live in Alabama (and some DID attend/graduate from AU) so I grew up Orange & Blue and have pulled for Auburn (sports) since I could walk & talk.  So, I love Auburn (even as  school/institution) very much.

However, according to Friction's post, I should have no say in this message board if I'm unhappy with the poor performance or the coach that led them to such poor performance.   I should just "Rah! Rah!" or be silent because I'm a loser Sidewalk or T-Shirt fan.

That seems to be the issue in this case but if only AU grads were allowed to post, I suspect you'd cut both the positive & negative posters by a pretty stout percentage. 

Anyway,  that's my interpretation.  @keesler can correct me if I'm wrong.

[abw0004 10,110]

Just now, leglessdan said:

I don't need clarification. We're in this particular part of the forum to discuss football, not other aspects of the University.  There's no need to try and merge the two as it also has no bearing on why folks are detached from Gus and what's going on. When folks start using the term sidewalk fan/alumni crap it causes more divide. I also immediately stop taking that poster seriously. No offense intended toward you or anyone else really.

No problem.  I just really wanted to make sure you and @keesler understood it had absolutely nothing to do with your fandom.  Zero.  Just an observation on how quickly people react.  That is not a bad or good thing.  Just an observation.  

[DAG 33,977]

I guess my question is, who cares if you never attended Auburn? If you grew up rooting and supporting the team, going to the games, buying merchandise, etc you are as big of a fan as someone who attended the school. I particularly don’t like that term either. 

[abw0004 10,110]

6 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

To further my unrequested assistance, I believe keesler is defending the likes of me.

I am not an AU grad.  I did not attend AU.  My family could not afford out of state tuition and, even if we could,  I was too dumb to attend anyway, so I graduated from a podunk community college in Georgia. 

But, I'm all AU because I was born in Birmingham and pretty much all of my blood relatives live in Alabama (and some DID attend/graduate from AU) so I grew up Orange & Blue and have pulled for Auburn (sports) since I could walk & talk.  So, I love Auburn (even as  school/institution) very much.

However, according to Friction's post, I should have no say in this message board if I'm unhappy with the poor performance or the coach that led them to such poor performance.   I should just "Rah! Rah!" or be silent because I'm a loser Sidewalk or T-Shirt fan.

That seems to be the issue in this case but if only AU grads were allowed to post, I suspect you'd cut both the positive & negative posters by a pretty stout percentage. 

Anyway,  that's my interpretation.  @keesler can correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you for explaining to me.  Maybe I am the one interpreting Friction wrong although I reread it multiple times to make sure.  In regard to my post, like I said to dan above, I in no way ever would say or will say that makes you less of a fan.  Ever.  And I think you know the immense respect I have for you too.  Honestly my father had a very similar story to yours, even down to the cancer, and he is still a huge Auburn fan.  He goes to all of the games with me when he has enough energy.