The Offensive Scheme Itself is Destined for Failure

[AUGunsmith 666]

Let's not pretend that literally half our yards came in the 4th quarter only after UGA switched to a zone to prevent the  big play TD. 

They prevented themselves out of a shut out. As soon as it became a 1 score game, they go back to name and we get 0 separation and back to back failed drives. 

Fire gus. Make Auburn Great Again. 

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Wouldnt call it scheme but there can't be a top shelf, run-first O with an O line that doesn't consistently drive top shelf D lines off the ball. Scratching my head re our big uglies - on paper they should be better. Im a true believer in Grimes historic ability to develop O lines but the only part of our O that is veteran is not getting it done. I think the last month we've seen malzahn coming to terms with this senior/no run block ability O line in that he's throwing in situations he otherwise would not. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

2 hours ago, Squidward2016 said:

I’m off the Gus bus, but I still don’t know if the scheme/playcalling is the problem like the prevailing narrative states.  Ferguson has an article on the Athletic that shows how the shift in the 4th quarter’s success didn’t come from a change in play calls, but from the players (mainly bo) simply making more plays.

We always complain about Gus not opening up the offense, etc but we passed a great deal more than ran yesterday. 62.5% of our first 3 quarters plays were passing, and 80% of the 4th. By my count, we threw SIX slants to Seth in the first half. We didn’t substitute much, we had our players spread out 4 wide the majority of the time, and we used quick passes to open up the run. 
 

I don’t know what Gus’s problem is, but it really doesn’t seem to be the same issues we’ve always complained about. (I’m still eager to fire him and get PJ or Matt Rhule though)

The scheme is STILL the problem.

That article you referenced also mentioned that, even though we didn't make major adjustments when we started to move the ball and scored in the 4th qtr, the Georgia defense did go back to man to man. They were running a soft zone after going up 21 pts. We hit the soft zones nad also got the running game going more bc of it too.

Once Georgia went back to man to man, Bo had trouble finding open WRs. We gained 38yd on the next to last drive, and -5 I think on the last drive. 

Gus doesn't know how develop pass plays that find weaknesses in man to man coverages it seems. 

[Win4AU 4,052]

I still believe Gus’s offense can be very successful at the college level.  I think the biggest reason for failure now is the Oline which is on Gus.  He meddled in Oline recruiting and didn’t really stop until he was forced to this season.  I think if Dilly and Grimey are allowed to bring in the Oline guys they want like they have this year then Gus will be able to run the power run play action scheme.  Auburn next year will have a Boobee Jr., DJ Soph, MAR redshirtFr, and Tank Fresh not to mention Worm and Miller. RB is loaded with talent.  WR’s with Seth, Flash should be decent.  TEs should play a bigger part next season as well.  Auburn should be able to rotate 4 SEC caliber Rbs with the threat of a Nix run mixed in.  Gus needs to get back to the long bomb more and less of the bubble screens.  If Nix can improve accuracy wise I think you’ll see a very competent offense.  Problem is can Gus get the Oline guys in here before it’s too late.

[aubaseball 2,592]

2 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

Let's not pretend that literally half our yards came in the 4th quarter only after UGA switched to a zone to prevent the  big play TD. 

They prevented themselves out of a shut out. As soon as it became a 1 score game, they go back to name and we get 0 separation and back to back failed drives. 

Fire gus. Make Auburn Great Again. 

This is just not true.   The third possession was an official ruling away from a first down and a 4 and 2 pass away from extending the drive.  The last possession was a dropped 1st down completion and horrible sack on the last play that saw three offensive linemen blocking one guy while the nose guard ran around the outside to get the sack.   

I’m in no way calling for Gus to stay, but damn, sometimes the players have to make a play.   Make a dang field goal or don’t fumble the ball when a drive is producing.   

Now the boobie fourth down call was terrible, no way around that and that is horrible coaching 

[AUGunsmith 666]

31 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

This is just not true.   The third possession was an official ruling away from a first down and a 4 and 2 pass away from extending the drive.  The last possession was a dropped 1st down completion and horrible sack on the last play that saw three offensive linemen blocking one guy while the nose guard ran around the outside to get the sack.   

I’m in no way calling for Gus to stay, but damn, sometimes the players have to make a play.   Make a dang field goal or don’t fumble the ball when a drive is producing.   

Now the boobie fourth down call was terrible, no way around that and that is horrible coaching 

The last 2 drives were 14 plays for 35 yards. They forced us back into going to the behind the line short yardage dunk and dunk approach and dared us to beat their man coverage, like all night, we couldn't. 

The 2nd to last drive perfectly exemplifies the point made by OP. Theu knew we couldn't sustain a drive and March methodically down the field. 

[caleb1633 1,418]

1 hour ago, Win4AU said:

I still believe Gus’s offense can be very successful at the college level.  I think the biggest reason for failure now is the Oline which is on Gus.  He meddled in Oline recruiting and didn’t really stop until he was forced to this season.  I think if Dilly and Grimey are allowed to bring in the Oline guys they want like they have this year then Gus will be able to run the power run play action scheme.  Auburn next year will have a Boobee Jr., DJ Soph, MAR redshirtFr, and Tank Fresh not to mention Worm and Miller. RB is loaded with talent.  WR’s with Seth, Flash should be decent.  TEs should play a bigger part next season as well.  Auburn should be able to rotate 4 SEC caliber Rbs with the threat of a Nix run mixed in.  Gus needs to get back to the long bomb more and less of the bubble screens.  If Nix can improve accuracy wise I think you’ll see a very competent offense.  Problem is can Gus get the Oline guys in here before it’s too late.

Sounds like a lot of the posts we've seen on this site the past 4-5 years.

[ChltteTiger 649]

14 hours ago, nixtosanders94 said:

The great tragedy of the Gus years will be what could have been with just a little less stubborn attitude and a little more creativity and diversity.  Just a little of that and this whole discussion never exists. 

To his credit Gus has never had the “wheels come off” season that his 3 predecessors all had.  During the Bowden, Tubs and Chiz years I often wondered how any coach could have a 3-9 type year with Auburn’s talent and resources.  I always thought a good coach could stabilize the program and make 8-4 the bottom out record at Auburn.  Gus has kinda done that but unfortunately 8-4 also seems to be mostly his ceiling too.  Now, we need the coach who can take it to the next level.  Gus has done some good things but evolving this offense isn’t one of them.  In fact, I would say its regressed.  Maybe thats due to rule changes or defenses catching up to him but whatever the cause he didn’t adapt.  Ultimately it will cost him his job whether its this year or next.  

2015 was one regular season loss away from a "wheels come off" type season. Nobody was excited about the Birmingham Bowl but the win there gave Gus a winning season. Apparently Jacobs thought everything was fine and dandy?

[aubaseball 2,592]

Sometimes the worst thing to happen when change is needed is a win.    I was never on the bus but I was following it in my car until Jax’ville State win.  If he had lost that game and the one to Utah State that should have been a loss, I don’t think he is still around

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

This Locked on Auburn podcast is bringing up an interesting point, that isnt just a recent problem. Georgia had DBS that absolutely crushed us in man to man. No one other than Seth could create space and win one on one. They're debating, is it a scheme or what...I still think its half scheme, half the WR coach is only able to recruit, not develop. But that's a huge part of what makes Gus's offense frustrating, you value throwing the ball so little, all your WRs can only do one or two things and nothing else

[Tigger1985 806]

IN a run first offense the Oline is critical, just imagine if our Dline was this bad. They can't block their man consistently and one breakdown results in a loss every time. We had those every time we tried to run.  Pass protection was very porous at best and it hasn't changed from last year. This is what is so frustrating to me. Gus says we need to run the ball better at half time. I mean really? 

[WarEagleChemE 99]

5 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

This Locked on Auburn podcast is bringing up an interesting point, that isnt just a recent problem. Georgia had DBS that absolutely crushed us in man to man. No one other than Seth could create space and win one on one. They're debating, is it a scheme or what...I still think its half scheme, half the WR coach is only able to recruit, not develop. But that's a huge part of what makes Gus's offense frustrating, you value throwing the ball so little, all your WRs can only do one or two things and nothing else

If they're playing strict man-to-man, you should run pick plays every time. Force them into zone.

[hqsi99 103]

On 11/18/2019 at 5:39 AM, nixtosanders94 said:

 

To his credit Gus has never had the “wheels come off” season that his 3 predecessors all had.  During the Bowden, Tubs and Chiz years I often wondered how any coach could have a 3-9 type year with Auburn’s talent and resources.  I always thought a good coach could stabilize the program and make 8-4 the bottom out record at Auburn.  Gus has kinda done that but unfortunately 8-4 also seems to be mostly his ceiling too.  Now, we need the coach who can take it to the next level.  Gus has done some good things but evolving this offense isn’t one of them.  In fact, I would say its regressed.  Maybe thats due to rule changes or defenses catching up to him but whatever the cause he didn’t adapt.  Ultimately it will cost him his job whether its this year or next.  

I'm worried that next year might be the year though.  I know the O-Line hasn't been great, but they are ALL graduating and we haven't seen anything to indicate the guys behind them are better.  Plus we lose our real stars on defense. 

If the defense falters even a little next year then it could be a long season.

[Strychnine 1,802]

1 hour ago, hqsi99 said:

I'm worried that next year might be the year though.  I know the O-Line hasn't been great, but they are ALL graduating and we haven't seen anything to indicate the guys behind them are better.  Plus we lose our real stars on defense. 

If the defense falters even a little next year then it could be a long season.

 

I have a lot more faith in Kevin Steele's ability to field an excellent defense, even without its current stars, than I do in Gus' offense.

[hqsi99 103]

26 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

I have a lot more faith in Kevin Steele's ability to field an excellent defense, even without its current stars, than I do in Gus' offense.

I do as well. My concern is that if his defense is only “great” instead of “all world” then with the losses on the o-line things could get rather ugly. 
 

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Steele’s defense to be this incredible every year and based on what I’m seeing it has to be just to stay in some games. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

8 minutes ago, hqsi99 said:

I do as well. My concern is that if his defense is only “great” instead of “all world” then with the losses on the o-line things could get rather ugly. 
 

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Steele’s defense to be this incredible every year and based on what I’m seeing it has to be just to stay in some games. 

 

I do not expect Kevin Steele's defense to be incredible every year.  I expect him to field a defense good enough for Auburn to be able to win almost any game they play, which I would say he has done consistently since he was hired.  Losing Kevin Steele and his staff, along with all of the great progress they have made, is my only fear about whenever Gus is fired.  Gus' beloved offense may be a trainwreck, but Auburn has a legitimate playoff-caliber defensive staff and roster.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Our offense has indicators to where the ball is going? Gus brought in the Wing T against Clemson. You literally follow the FB and it tells you we’re the play is going. Gus ran this against Clemson, you’d think he’d scrap it but he has broken it out on occasion with similar results.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Y’all should listen to his presser today. Someone was agitating ole Gus with questions about his offense. Gus would say they have a lot to build on with the pace they had in the fourth and a reporter said, “Seth Williams said it was impossible to run at that pace a full game.” He said every team is different and you do what you have to to win games. The reporter asked if he had recently coached a game at that pace. He said not that he can think of, ha .

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

11 hours ago, sevenlee36 said:

Y’all should listen to his presser today. Someone was agitating ole Gus with questions about his offense. Gus would say they have a lot to build on with the pace they had in the fourth and a reporter said, “Seth Williams said it was impossible to run at that pace a full game.” He said every team is different and you do what you have to to win games. The reporter asked if he had recently coached a game at that pace. He said not that he can think of, ha .

It being impossible to run at the pace that we originally revered this guy for running at should properly surmise the state of affair

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:34 PM, steeleagle said:

The scheme is STILL the problem.

That article you referenced also mentioned that, even though we didn't make major adjustments when we started to move the ball and scored in the 4th qtr, the Georgia defense did go back to man to man. They were running a soft zone after going up 21 pts. We hit the soft zones nad also got the running game going more bc of it too.

Once Georgia went back to man to man, Bo had trouble finding open WRs. We gained 38yd on the next to last drive, and -5 I think on the last drive. 

Gus doesn't know how develop pass plays that find weaknesses in man to man coverages it seems. 

Yeah we truthfully lost the second that 4th and 2 went incomplete. They couldve went back to man to man after but at that part of the field it wouldnt have mattered, especially with the run still being a viable option and the juice Boobert had. Hell Im kind of pissed they ever ran zone because a small segment of Aub fans are deluded into thinking that Gus couldve just coached that well the entire game, when he never changed anything up from what wasn't working. The other team did (stupidly, I might add). 

[AU64 10,122]

8 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Yeah we truthfully lost the second that 4th and 2 went incomplete. They couldve went back to man to man after but at that part of the field it wouldnt have mattered, especially with the run still being a viable option and the juice Boobert had. Hell Im kind of pissed they ever ran zone because a small segment of Aub fans are deluded into thinking that Gus couldve just coached that well the entire game, when he never changed anything up from what wasn't working. The other team did (stupidly, I might add). 

Maybe so...but as I recall the season, the dawgs defense was pretty dominant against about everyone they played.   Never thought it possible to run a 15 play drive on them....and had to take advantage of whatever chances we had.  I'm guessing they went to zone when we were hitting the slants to Williams.....trying to take those away...and not just playing "prevent" / soft defense.   Whatever the reason, we had our opportunities...bad fumble and some missed passes and it was done.  

Will be interesting to see what LSU does against them.   Dawg offense is pitiful....so guess it will be a matter of the Burrow having a good day.

[ChltteTiger 649]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:23 PM, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

This Locked on Auburn podcast is bringing up an interesting point, that isnt just a recent problem. Georgia had DBS that absolutely crushed us in man to man. No one other than Seth could create space and win one on one. They're debating, is it a scheme or what...I still think its half scheme, half the WR coach is only able to recruit, not develop. But that's a huge part of what makes Gus's offense frustrating, you value throwing the ball so little, all your WRs can only do one or two things and nothing else

This sounds like yet another "brick in the wall" for getting rid of Malzahn. Lousy WR coaching by his staff.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

8 hours ago, ChltteTiger said:

This sounds like yet another "brick in the wall" for getting rid of Malzahn. Lousy WR coaching by his staff.

Kodi is a great recruiter, but I don’t think he’s a great developer. Hard to develop much when your offensive play caller asks for so little though 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:25 AM, AU64 said:

Maybe so...but as I recall the season, the dawgs defense was pretty dominant against about everyone they played.   Never thought it possible to run a 15 play drive on them....and had to take advantage of whatever chances we had.  I'm guessing they went to zone when we were hitting the slants to Williams.....trying to take those away...and not just playing "prevent" / soft defense.   Whatever the reason, we had our opportunities...bad fumble and some missed passes and it was done.  

Will be interesting to see what LSU does against them.   Dawg offense is pitiful....so guess it will be a matter of the Burrow having a good day.

If it’s 21-21 going into our OT with a shortened field, we probably got as much a chance as they do tbh. 

[twilli13 600]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:25 AM, AU64 said:

Maybe so...but as I recall the season, the dawgs defense was pretty dominant against about everyone they played.   Never thought it possible to run a 15 play drive on them....and had to take advantage of whatever chances we had.  I'm guessing they went to zone when we were hitting the slants to Williams.....trying to take those away...and not just playing "prevent" / soft defense.   Whatever the reason, we had our opportunities...bad fumble and some missed passes and it was done.  

Will be interesting to see what LSU does against them.   Dawg offense is pitiful....so guess it will be a matter of the Burrow having a good day.

We were hitting slants to Seth all game. It was how we generated a ton of our offense.