Mama Worm

[auburnphan 6,050]

33 minutes ago, gr82be said:

And why is that more today than in the past? If you look at a time when to the NFL used RBs heavily some of those guys played for years. 

John Riggins played 15 seasons and his most productive season were seasons 13 and 14 where he averaged between 20-25 carries a game. 

Walter Payton played 13 seasons and his seasons 9-12 we're just as productive as seasons 2-6 while also averaging 20-25 carries a game. 

I just picked these two because they played forever it seemed but the production near the end of their careers was incredible. You just don't see that longetivity anymore and they even get less carries now. It just seems odd. 

The players are much bigger, stronger and faster in this modern era.  More athletes on the defensive side of the ball as well.

[gr82be 14,402]

2 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

The players are much bigger, stronger and faster in this modern era.

I'm sure that's the biggest part of it. There's just always something else to consider too like equipment is safer now. But yeah, I get it. Conditioning is year round now too. 

5 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

More athletes on the defensive side of the ball as well.

Especially if you're Saban and Gus's punt formation confounds you. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

The players are much bigger, stronger and faster in this modern era.  More athletes on the defensive side of the ball as well.

THIS!

John Riggins in his prime would have a hard time cracking the RB rotation at a major D1 school today.  He was big and lumbering, but that's it.  Athletes today are so much stronger, bigger, faster, and smarter about the game.

Case in point.  The starting offensive line Riggins played behind in 1983 for the Redskins averaged 280 pounds.  That's an extremely small line by today's big time college football standards, yet Riggins was 1st team all pro that year.

[Gowebb11 9,310]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Agreed they each could very well happen individually and 2 of those 3 possible scenarios result in him hurting his future earning potential. Barber realized this and Boobie may as well. NFL is preferring their guys to have less and less  mileage on them these days as it is.

Man, RB is such a brutal position.

I’m not sure mileage on RBs is impacting the NFL draft as much as how RBs are used less now in the NFL. I did a lot of research on this when everyone was claiming Gus grinded Kerryon down.  For his 3 years, he had just under 600 carries. Chubb had over 700, Saquon and McCaffrey well over 600.  Jonathon Taylor has over 800 in three years and he is a projected first rounder. 

 

[oracle79 3,569]

Whitlow hasn't been healthy an entire year out of his 3 here has he?

[McLoofus 35,182]

24 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Whitlow hasn't been healthy an entire year out of his 3 here has he?

Correct. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

@Momma Worm, forgot to tell you. When Worm scored the touchdown, I sorta lost my cool. To the point that my 1 yr old started crying. He thought I was angry. I know I'm partially to blame, but please tell your son to be more responsible. 

😂

[fredst 9,064]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

@Momma Worm, forgot to tell you. When Worm scored the touchdown, I sorta lost my cool. To the point that my 1 yr old started crying. He thought I was angry. I know I'm partially to blame, but please tell your son to be more responsible. 

😂

That was about the time my 80 lb sheepdog had had enough and went back to lay in my shower😜

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 minutes ago, fredst said:

That was about the time my 80 lb sheepdog had had enough and went back to lay in my shower😜

#tornadodrill

[jAUSon 2,836]

3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

I’m not sure mileage on RBs is impacting the NFL draft as much as how RBs are used less now in the NFL. I did a lot of research on this when everyone was claiming Gus grinded Kerryon down.  For his 3 years, he had just under 600 carries. Chubb had over 700, Saquon and McCaffrey well over 600.  Jonathon Taylor has over 800 in three years and he is a projected first rounder. 

 

2.5 years.

When folks claimed Gus grinded him down was when he was 285 carries on the season and couldn't compete late.

 

[Gowebb11 9,310]

1 hour ago, jAUSon said:

2.5 years.

When folks claimed Gus grinded him down was when he was 285 carries on the season and couldn't compete late.

 

I don’t disagree that Gus rode KJ too hard. But there is a commonly held belief that carries in college scares off the NFL. Recent top draft picks suggest it doesn’t. 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

7 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

THIS!

John Riggins in his prime would have a hard time cracking the RB rotation at a major D1 school today.  He was big and lumbering, but that's it.  Athletes today are so much stronger, bigger, faster, and smarter about the game.

Case in point.  The starting offensive line Riggins played behind in 1983 for the Redskins averaged 280 pounds.  That's an extremely small line by today's big time college football standards, yet Riggins was 1st team all pro that year.

Think you probably should go back and watch some film of Riggins. You do realize the guy was a sprinter in his younger days right? I realize that players have gotten bigger, and faster as a whole, but don't sell Riggins short. Joe Gibbs himself would tell you that the acquisition of Riggins made the Redskins an immediate Super Bowl contender. Guy was that good.

Apologize for the derail.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

56 minutes ago, Eagle-1 said:

Think you probably should go back and watch some film of Riggins. You do realize the guy was a sprinter in his younger days right? I realize that players have gotten bigger, and faster as a whole, but don't sell Riggins short. Joe Gibbs himself would tell you that the acquisition of Riggins made the Redskins an immediate Super Bowl contender. Guy was that good.

Apologize for the derail.

I've seen film.  But he also never played against guys like Derrick Brown in his day.  Dude would have a hard time cracking many college rotations right now.  Guys today are faster, stronger, bigger, and have better technique, not to mention that they play in way more complicated schemes.  And you also have to take his reported sprint times with a grain of salt as they were hand times.  Just not at all accurate compared to the info we have today.  Worm would leave the dude in the dust.

I say this in the same vein that some of the greatest NFL teams of the past would also struggle against today's big time college teams.  If a time capsule dropped the '72 Dolphins on a field tomorrow, LSU flat out destroys them.  That Dolphins team was about 255 across each line.  Wouldn't have a chance in hell at competing against guys from today. 

[Bro Johnny Mac 1,391]

 I apologize in advance for taking part of the high jacking of this tread, but this is an interesting topic going on 😬

The biggest difference between the football In the 70s-80’s era until today is that the size and speed of lineman are  not even in the same universe.

I think a lot of the skill players from that era until now are pretty comparable.

Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and John Elway could still play today.

 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

5 hours ago, Bro Johnny Mac said:

 I apologize in advance for taking part of the high jacking of this tread, but this is an interesting topic going on 😬

The biggest difference between the football In the 70s-80’s era until today is that the size and speed of lineman are  not even in the same universe.

I think a lot of the skill players from that era until now are pretty comparable.

Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton and John Elway could still play today.

 

Thanks, and would still be stars.

[Eagle-1 3,821]

8 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I've seen film.  But he also never played against guys like Derrick Brown in his day.  Dude would have a hard time cracking many college rotations right now.  Guys today are faster, stronger, bigger, and have better technique, not to mention that they play in way more complicated schemes.  And you also have to take his reported sprint times with a grain of salt as they were hand times.  Just not at all accurate compared to the info we have today.  Worm would leave the dude in the dust.

I say this in the same vein that some of the greatest NFL teams of the past would also struggle against today's big time college teams.  If a time capsule dropped the '72 Dolphins on a field tomorrow, LSU flat out destroys them.  That Dolphins team was about 255 across each line.  Wouldn't have a chance in hell at competing against guys from today. 

You can make an argument about the size of linemen for sure, but that changes nothing of the subject of Riggins. According to your argument guys like Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Hershel Walker, just couldn't compete today? There are some athletes that transcend time, and would be a force in any era. My argument is that John Riggins is definitely one of them. 6'2"-230lbs with good speed, incredible leg strength, balance, and vision are excellent traits in any era. Just saying. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 hours ago, Eagle-1 said:

You can make an argument about the size of linemen for sure, but that changes nothing of the subject of Riggins. According to your argument guys like Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Hershel Walker, just couldn't compete today? There are some athletes that transcend time, and would be a force in any era. My argument is that John Riggins is definitely one of them. 6'2"-230lbs with good speed, incredible leg strength, balance, and vision are excellent traits in any era. Just saying. 

You extrapolated the argument wrong.  Each case is different.  Jackson, Peyton, and Walker could absolutely play today.  They were also transcendent talents. 

Riggins isn't on that level and would have a much, much harder time of it.  His speed was good for the time.  It's nothing special now.  His upright running style would be a hindrance to success.  And when you talk leg strength, you have to compare it to the defensive competition he played against in his era vs what he would see now.  That same leg drive he had then wouldn't be as effective against the modern day athlete.  At best, he'd be a fullback in today's game.  Think more Jay Prosch.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,225]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:03 PM, Momma Worm said:

This was forwarded to me.... it’s quiet hilarious to me that whomever you are feels this way! I know your on this forum because I said what I said on here. He doesn’t have to play here so make no mistake about it! It makes the interest of proving you fake aih fans wrong & explore other options ❗️ Dont ever get it twisted.... if he enters that portal trust he will be picked up ASAP! Watch what you say & who you speak on. & for the record he had 30 plus offers from LSU & Georgia. He could  have gone anywhere! You people are crazy but its only right that we make you a believer! Be careful what you ask for because it may come back to haunt you. 

Not the same guy over here... this guy has never been critical of your son's heart or play.  In fact I make it a habit to almost never mention a player by name unless it's positive and have pretty much left this board BECAUSE of all the negativity of late.  And I have never had a pay account on any site.

[Eagle-1 3,821]

2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

You extrapolated the argument wrong.  Each case is different.  Jackson, Peyton, and Walker could absolutely play today.  They were also transcendent talents. 

Riggins isn't on that level and would have a much, much harder time of it.  His speed was good for the time.  It's nothing special now.  His upright running style would be a hindrance to success.  And when you talk leg strength, you have to compare it to the defensive competition he played against in his era vs what he would see now.  That same leg drive he had then wouldn't be as effective against the modern day athlete.  At best, he'd be a fullback in today's game.  Think more Jay Prosch.

So, it comes down to personal opinion then? It's an argument with no way to prove either way. I'm curious though, since Riggins in your opinion is too slow, and his strength wouldn't be effective today, what's your take on Jim Brown? Could he crack the lineup in the modern SEC today? I'll hang up, and listen.

Just a point of fact. Riggins was faster than Brown, or Emmit Smith. At least before his second knee surgery.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

32 minutes ago, Eagle-1 said:

So, it comes down to personal opinion then? It's an argument with no way to prove either way. I'm curious though, since Riggins in your opinion is too slow, and his strength wouldn't be effective today, what's your take on Jim Brown? Could he crack the lineup in the modern SEC today? I'll hang up, and listen.

Just a point of fact. Riggins was faster than Brown, or Emmit Smith. At least before his second knee surgery.

Brown probably wouldn't at pure RB.  Like Riggins, probably would slot closer to a modern day FB.  An amazing running back for his era, but that's the key.  But you have to consider all factors when placing those guys into today's game.

[Mims44 1,864]

45 minutes ago, Eagle-1 said:

So, it comes down to personal opinion then? It's an argument with no way to prove either way. I'm curious though, since Riggins in your opinion is too slow, and his strength wouldn't be effective today, what's your take on Jim Brown? Could he crack the lineup in the modern SEC today? I'll hang up, and listen.

Just a point of fact. Riggins was faster than Brown, or Emmit Smith. At least before his second knee surgery.

 

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Brown probably wouldn't at pure RB.  Like Riggins, probably would slot closer to a modern day FB.  An amazing running back for his era, but that's the key.  But you have to consider all factors when placing those guys into today's game.

Actually watched a NFL history debate a few years back about this, had coaches and players on their panel discussing famous NFL RBs. They argued a lot of these points you two have brought up about just about everyone (Brown, Walter, Earl, Emmitt, etc)...

They all agreed however, on just two guys being able to succeed in ANY era, Bo Jackson, and Barry Sanders.

[Eagle-1 3,821]

9 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

 

Actually watched a NFL history debate a few years back about this, had coaches and players on their panel discussing famous NFL RBs. They argued a lot of these points you two have brought up about just about everyone (Brown, Walter, Earl, Emmitt, etc)...

They all agreed however, on just two guys being able to succeed in ANY era, Bo Jackson, and Barry Sanders.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that there are not many that could excel in any era. I do however believe there are quite a few more than just Bo, and Barry. After all when we are discussing players like JB, Riggins, Hershel, Earl Campbell, we aren't talking about 180lb scat backs. All those guys would be considered big backs even by today's standards. Sometimes I think because of his race Riggins is regarded by some as being slow, and plodding. He simply was not in that category. The guy had serious wheels for his size, especially in his younger days. Now one could argue he was no speed demon when he was dominating the NFL playoffs in the his later years at Washington, but he was in his mid thirties by then, and had two knee surgeries by then. 

Back on topic, I sincerely hope that Shivers stays here at Auburn, and be given the opportunity to become a much larger part of the offense. He could be such a weapon with the right utilization. Would love to see him in the McCaleb role. Young man is dangerous in space. 

[JJB74 77]

On 12/5/2019 at 1:12 PM, Gowebb11 said:

And I’m pretty sure Tank Bigsby is an early enrollee as well. 

I'll be at the game tonight watching Tank (#1 RB in the nation) as well as a couple of Auburn coaches 

[weagl1 1,781]

6 hours ago, Eagle-1 said:

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that there are not many that could excel in any era. I do however believe there are quite a few more than just Bo, and Barry. After all when we are discussing players like JB, Riggins, Hershel, Earl Campbell, we aren't talking about 180lb scat backs. All those guys would be considered big backs even by today's standards. Sometimes I think because of his race Riggins is regarded by some as being slow, and plodding. He simply was not in that category. The guy had serious wheels for his size, especially in his younger days. Now one could argue he was no speed demon when he was dominating the NFL playoffs in the his later years at Washington, but he was in his mid thirties by then, and had two knee surgeries by then. 

Back on topic, I sincerely hope that Shivers stays here at Auburn, and be given the opportunity to become a much larger part of the offense. He could be such a weapon with the right utilization. Would love to see him in the McCaleb role. Young man is dangerous in space. 

That’s where I want to see Worm in the jet sweep McCaleb role.  If he gets outside its over with that speed.   We need him there and Schwartz at the slot receiver.  Won’t  Stove and Hastings both be gone after this season?

[Mims44 1,864]

6 hours ago, Eagle-1 said:

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that there are not many that could excel in any era. I do however believe there are quite a few more than just Bo, and Barry. After all when we are discussing players like JB, Riggins, Hershel, Earl Campbell, we aren't talking about 180lb scat backs. All those guys would be considered big backs even by today's standards. Sometimes I think because of his race Riggins is regarded by some as being slow, and plodding. He simply was not in that category. The guy had serious wheels for his size, especially in his younger days. Now one could argue he was no speed demon when he was dominating the NFL playoffs in the his later years at Washington, but he was in his mid thirties by then, and had two knee surgeries by then. 

Back on topic, I sincerely hope that Shivers stays here at Auburn, and be given the opportunity to become a much larger part of the offense. He could be such a weapon with the right utilization. Would love to see him in the McCaleb role. Young man is dangerous in space. 

Oh for sure, I didn't mean to say there weren't more. Just that Barry and Bo were the two where they didn't even have a discussion, everybody just immediately said, "yup, they can do it" and moved on. I wish I could remember the name of it, they did current backs on it also and talked about how they thought they would perform if playing back in the day... I remember AP getting a lot of love.

 

Speaking of Barry in a Worm thread, Barry was only 1 inch taller, but had a bit over 20lbs (in NFL, dunno college weights) on Worm. But SS is still a growing dude, no telling what another 10-12lbs of muscle might do for him.