Middle Ground?

[80Tiger 899]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

22 points on offense is just about right. Without the D we lose going away.

Your a coach right.? So you are going to discount our field goals? I said this in an earlier post. You can’t act like a few plays did not happen and expect everything else remain the same. If we don’t pick the first pass UA punts from their own 20 or so. High chance we get the ball in good field position. Do we score from there. Maybe, maybe not. If we don’t pick the 2nd ball, I know for a fact that we do not kick off and Waddel doesn’t run it back tor a TD. So you can’t assume that UA scores what they do. 

[Sully to Beasley 643]

I have been a voice of criticism toward Gus this season and I continue to be critical of his play calling for sure. No doubt he was on his "A" game a week ago today. Making little nicky look like a monkey twice in one game was priceless. With that said Gus must either evolve as a play caller or bring in a new offensive coordinator and give him 100% control of the offense. Gus' long term survival at Auburn probably depends on it. With that said, I am going to sit back and enjoy the events of last weekend for a long time!

                                                                             

[Win4AU 4,052]

29 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

They did.

It's called the AUFamily Football Forum.

How you doing 72?  Have a good Thanksgiving?

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, fredst said:

😂😂😂
Seriously....this really hasn’t happened in about 5 years.

no...not seriously.....but might be in our future...

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

22 points on offense is just about right. Without the D we lose going away.

True I guess and if bama is  without Waddell we win going away too.    That guys is a real problem for defenses...

As for those INTs....I thought those were on the bama QB      guess it depends on who you are listening to.  

[nixtosanders94 2,180]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

True I guess and if bama is  without Waddell we win going away too.    That guys is a real problem for defenses...

As for those INTs....I thought those were on the bama QB      guess it depends on who you are listening to.  

The bammers I know keep using the backup QB excuse but I thought Jones played pretty well. The first INT was definitely on him but the second was one flukey and caused by our pressure on D. That really had nothing to do with yalls discussion but thought it was worth noting Jones played pretty good.

[shabby 1,956]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

No, special team scored those once the offense failed to continue a drive.

Would you credit a kick return TD to the offense?

Are you that desperate for a narrative. When have offensive stats ever subtracted field goals? Rhetorical question as the answer is never. You are proving the point of the original post

[AU64 10,122]

2 minutes ago, nixtosanders94 said:

The bammers I know keep using the backup QB excuse but I thought Jones played pretty well. The first INT was definitely on him but the second was one flukey and caused by our pressure on D. That really had nothing to do with yalls discussion but thought it was worth noting Jones played pretty good.

I agree....and he was more mobile than Tua has been this year and gave us problems with his running....made at least one long 3rd down run to keep a drive alive and was pretty good at avoiding sacks.   JMO but our DL would have given Tua more difficulty with the rush...  

Bammers always need an excuse but laying the loss on Jones is poor form IMO.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

2 hours ago, ToraGirl said:

I believe you're right. If there's any silver lining, this contract situation is like knowing that planes can be a weapon after 9/11. We didn't see it coming, but we won't miss it to this magnitude again. 

We might not have seen it coming, but Gus and his agent sure did.  That contract gave Gus the *security* he needed to keep any detractors at arm’s length while he got things figured out.  If you look at the 2018 season in retrospect, after the LSU game the offense took a distinct dive and the frustration shown in the Arky game (delay of game penalties, etc,) showed something was up.  Gus’ performance against MSU, UT and all but 6 mins of the Texas A&M game might have cost him his job except for Leath and the BOT member that has a man crush on him.

Somewhere in that season, because the *security* of the contract, Gus decided to double down on Gus.  So this year we see the offense as a work in process into the 9th game of the season, really?  Gus has got to be the luckiest man alive.  Case in point; the IB where we get 2 pick sixes and 4 field goals and Bama doinks the tying FG.  A minute or so left in the game and Bama with two timeouts.  Our offense calls plays that are really not seriously going for a first down, but just to use Bama’s TOs.  Very curious and typical Gus ball, no emotion because Gus has a plan (no consideration if his plan did not work).  First down we gain a yard, second play was the WC and gained 2 yards, the third play was a WC/RPO with Boobee (are you kidding me?).  Boobee gains 3 yards which was pure luck, not necessarily planned.  That put us within 5 yards of a 1st down.

Then comes Gus’ plan to keep Waddell off the field and the luck continues as we get the first down by penalty.  If Boobee didn’t gain those three yards, the penalty would have allowed Bama to receive the punt with Waddell back there, as it would be 4th and 7 and no 1st down.  If Bama hadn’t panicked, we still punt the ball and Bama gets another chance.  I know it is better to be lucky than good, but I sure would like to be good.

So we have Gus for another year to see if he can be the coach we all would like to have and field a good offense (the defense is stellar) and not an offense that is a work in progress for 9 games.  Good luck to us all.

[oracle79 3,569]

Whelp, look at it this way. IF we win the bowl game, it'll be our first season with less than 4 losses since 2013. IF...

[ToraGirl 5,498]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

We might not have seen it coming, but Gus and his agent sure did.  That contract gave Gus the *security* he needed to keep any detractors at arm’s length while he got things figured out.  If you look at the 2018 season in retrospect, after the LSU game the offense took a distinct dive and the frustration shown in the Arky game (delay of game penalties, etc,) showed something was up.  Gus’ performance against MSU, UT and all but 6 mins of the Texas A&M game might have cost him his job except for Leath and the BOT member that has a man crush on him.

Somewhere in that season, because the *security* of the contract, Gus decided to double down on Gus.  So this year we see the offense as a work in process into the 9th game of the season, really?  Gus has got to be the luckiest man alive.  Case in point; the IB where we get 2 pick sixes and 4 field goals and Bama doinks the tying FG.  A minute or so left in the game and Bama with two timeouts.  Our offense calls plays that are really not seriously going for a first down, but just to use Bama’s TOs.  Very curious and typical Gus ball, no emotion because Gus has a plan (no consideration if his plan did not work).  First down we gain a yard, second play was the WC and gained 2 yards, the third play was a WC/RPO with Boobee (are you kidding me?).  Boobee gains 3 yards which was pure luck, not necessarily planned.  That put us within 5 yards of a 1st down.

Then comes Gus’ plan to keep Waddell off the field and the luck continues as we get the first down by penalty.  If Boobee didn’t gain those three yards, the penalty would have allowed Bama to receive the punt with Waddell back there, as it would be 4th and 7 and no 1st down.  If Bama hadn’t panicked, we still punt the ball and Bama gets another chance.  I know it is better to be lucky than good, but I sure would like to be good.

So we have Gus for another year to see if he can be the coach we all would like to have and field a good offense (the defense is stellar) and not an offense that is a work in progress for 9 games.  Good luck to us all.

IMHO, that was his moment in time.  May it be one and done. 

Good--me too.  The lucky keeps everything on edge.  And everyone.  Naturally.  "Por supuesto."  How could it not?

[bigbird 60,368]

1 hour ago, 80Tiger said:

Your a coach right.? So you are going to discount our field goals? I said this in an earlier post. You can’t act like a few plays did not happen and expect everything else remain the same. If we don’t pick the first pass UA punts from their own 20 or so. High chance we get the ball in good field position. Do we score from there. Maybe, maybe not. If we don’t pick the 2nd ball, I know for a fact that we do not kick off and Waddel doesn’t run it back tor a TD. So you can’t assume that UA scores what they do. 

Who is discounting them? I'm attributing them to special teams, not the offense.  Just like I'm not attributing the Waddle kick return to the defense.

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, Win4AU said:

How you doing 72?  Have a good Thanksgiving?

I am doing pretty good, thank you!  I hope all's well with you and your family?

Thanksgiving was very nice.  Just the 4 of us this year but nice weather, great food & naps, LOL!  We have SO MUCH to be thankful for...for sure!

I hope your's was good as well.  God bless!

[shabby 1,956]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Who is discounting them? I'm attributing them to special teams, not the offense.  Just like I'm not attributing the Waddle kick return to the defense.

You can attribute them however you like. However every statistic compiler will attributed to offensive production

[bigbird 60,368]

Just now, shabby said:

You can attribute them however you like. However every statistic compiler will attributed to offensive production

Would you attribute a kick return TD to the offense?  What about having a punt blocked, is that on the offense? How about a punt return, offense or defense get credit there?

The FG occurs because of ST. They are put in position by the offense. 

 

[bigbird 60,368]

No answer, @shabby?

How about it this way? If instead of FGs, what if those points came in the form of a kick return. Who would you say was responsible?

If we missed those FG, would you say it was bad special teams or bad offense?

[Potatooooooes!! 1,366]

Some people are obsessed with statistics because it’s the only way to make them feel better

[shabby 1,956]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

No answer, @shabby?

How about it this way? If instead of FGs, what if those points came in the form of a kick return. Who would you say was responsible?

If we missed those FG, would you say it was bad special teams or bad offense?

You are deliberately being obtuse. I challenge you to find one statistic compiler that does not a tribute field goals to offensive production. you won't because you're wrong.

[bigbird 60,368]

Just now, shabby said:

You are deliberately being obtuse. I challenge you to find one statistic compiler that does not a tribute field goals to offensive production. you won't because you're wrong.

Just answer the questions

[shabby 1,956]

Just now, bigbird said:

Just answer the questions

Sure. If the defense scores a point the defense gets credit. Is a field goal he's made by the offense in the offense gets credit. Now answer my question what site do you know that doesn't consider field goal kicks s offensive points

[bigbird 60,368]

My knowledge doesn't come from sites. For this discussion let's think about this. 

How games were won and lost in the 2009 NFL regular season:

• Offenses: Scored 1,140 touchdowns and 24 two-point conversions, or 62 percent of the 11,213 points scored in 256 games.

• Special teams: Accounted for 3,853 points, or 34 percent of all scoring. Punt and kickoff returners scored only 34 touchdowns, but kickers made 1,165 extra points (worth one point each) and 756 field goals (worth three points each). Special teams also contributed 12 touchdowns when they blocked field goal attempts and ran them in for touchdowns and 24 touchdowns when they blocked punts and ran them in for touchdowns.

• Defenses: Scored 472 points, or 4 percent of all scoring, by intercepting passes and running for touchdowns (there were 48 interception touchdowns), by scoring safeties (there were 14 safeties, worth two points each), and by recovering fumbles and running for touchdowns (there were 26 fumble-recovery touchdowns

Why would they have it broken down like this if they were the same?

 

Why keep this stat?

https//www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/special-teams-points-per-game

 

It's a separate part of the game.

[bigbird 60,368]

17 minutes ago, shabby said:

Sure. If the defense scores a point the defense gets credit. Is a field goal he's made by the offense in the offense gets credit. Now answer my question what site do you know that doesn't consider field goal kicks s offensive points

Yes, when the defense scores they get credit.  Special teams isn't the offense.

Who gets credit for a punt return?

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Yes, when the defense scores they get credit.  Special teams isn't the offense.

Who gets credit for a punt return?

 

But Bird.... What do the STATISTICS COMPILERS say?  It doesn't matter what intelligent football people believe if the Statistics Compilers aren't on your side.  

[oracle79 3,569]

35 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The FG occurs because of ST. They are put in position by the offense. 

And sometimes by a combination of defense and punt return despite the offense.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

2 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

And sometimes by a combination of defense and punt return despite the offense.

I think I remember that is how we the “offense” scored 6 points in the UF game.  Both were 3 and FG type drives.