Why We Lost—According to the Defense

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You really need to understand bigger pictures and nuance.  Just because you can point to a few things doesn't mean there's excuses or magical thinking.  We all know and saw what happened.

To the Iron Bowl, we were outgained by 161 yards.  Statistically speaking, we got whipped.  Two plays changed the game.  Take even one off the board and we lose.  Hell, let their kicker make a 30 yd FG and we potentially lose.  Perspective matters when looking at all games.

And fine, let's say we don't score if Tutt fields the punt cleanly and we go 3 & out.  10-3 AU with Minnesota having the ball in their own territory is very different than setting them up with a short field.

You seem to think I'm in here making excuses.  I'm not.  We got our asses handed to us in Tampa.  I also desperately want a change at HC.  But it doesn't take away from the fact that we were a couple of weird plays away from potentially winning that game despite our performance.

I truly envy your ability to maintain composure in these conversations. 

[AURealist 2,185]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You really need to understand bigger pictures and nuance.  Just because you can point to a few things doesn't mean there's excuses or magical thinking.  We all know and saw what happened.

To the Iron Bowl, we were outgained by 161 yards.  Statistically speaking, we got whipped.  Two plays changed the game.  Take even one off the board and we lose.  Hell, let their kicker make a 30 yd FG and we potentially lose.  Perspective matters when looking at all games.

And fine, let's say we don't score if Tutt fields the punt cleanly and we go 3 & out.  10-3 AU with Minnesota having the ball in their own territory is very different than setting them up with a short field.

You seem to think I'm in here making excuses.  I'm not.  We got our asses handed to us in Tampa.  I also desperately want a change at HC.  But it doesn't take away from the fact that we were a couple of weird plays away from potentially winning that game despite our performance.

You need to understand there is no bigger picture and no nuance to be understood. 

I don't think you are making excuses.  I think you are indulging in an alternate reality story that pleases you and you want others to buy into it.  Don't worry.  Many will.  That's my point.  Alternate reality posts where we were really the victor or within a hair's breadth away from winning, but robbed, cheated or fluked from the win are all the rage here.   

Why you do it, I don't know.  Maybe you don't even know.  Why do people buy into them?  I don't know that either.  Maybe just a form of homerism, like when all sorts of 'glory day' nostalgia posts begin to show up after a particularly bad season. 

"...we were a couple of weird plays away from potentially winning that game..."  <-- There's that great ending again -  the 'Get Smart' summation:  "Missed it by that much."  

 

[abw0004 10,110]

18 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

To the Iron Bowl, we were outgained by 161 yards.  Statistically speaking, we got whipped.  Two plays changed the game.  Take even one off the board and we lose.  Hell, let their kicker make a 30 yd FG and we potentially lose.  Perspective matters when looking at all games.

Let me ask you this, although I am not trying to join in the conversation, just simply something I have wondered.  We were out-gained by 161 yards against Alabama.  Is that more on our defense then?  Did Alabama figure out our defense's deficiency that Minnesota replicated?  For me, I might actually be leaning that way for the Iron Bowl as hard as it is to say that as I LOVE our defense.  I feel like our offense did their job to win the Iron Bowl with 34 points.  In fact, if we scored 34 points against LSU, Florida, and Georgia we win.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

Let me ask you this, although I am not trying to join in the conversation, just simply something I have wondered.  We were out-gained by 161 yards against Alabama.  Is that more on our defense then?  Did Alabama figure out our defense's deficiency that Minnesota replicated?  For me, I might actually be leaning that way for the Iron Bowl as hard as it is to say that as I LOVE our defense.  I feel like our offense did their job to win the Iron Bowl with 34 points.  In fact, if we scored 34 points against LSU, Florida, and Georgia we win.

They attacked in two different ways.  Bama has speed and multiple receivers able to beat single coverage, which is what we primarily play.  Bama and LSU largely attacked us in similar ways.  We were just able to hold LSU to some 4th down stops where they left points on the field.  Meanwhile Bama kept scoring touchdowns, three times from plays of 28 yards or more.

Minnesota flat man-handled us.  They were more physically dominant than we were on the line of scrimmage.  Used that to set up the long play-action pass for the winning TD in the 4th.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I truly envy your ability to maintain composure in these conversations. 

It's not easy.  At the point of walking away now.  You can lead a horse to water....

[AURealist 2,185]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

It's not easy.  At the point of walking away now.  You can lead a horse to water....

Such a noble parting shot.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, AURealist said:

Such a noble parting shot.  

TF are you talking about nobility for? Dude already explained his point of view to you- a couple times- and you not only didn't understand, but doubled down on your poor comprehension with attempts at insult and patronization. You've come across as a bloviating douchebag in this conversation, and a particularly dense one at that. 

[AURealist 2,185]

Just now, McLoofus said:

TF are you talking about nobility for? Dude already explained his point of view to you- a couple times- and you not only didn't understand, but doubled down on your poor comprehension with attempts at insult and patronization. You've come across as a bloviating douchebag in this conversation, and a particularly dense one at that. 

Classy.  

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Classy.  

I tend to meet folks on whatever road they're already on. It's a personal flaw. Honestly, though? I'm not working that hard on it. 

[AURealist 2,185]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

I tend to meet folks on whatever road they're already on. It's a personal flaw. Honestly, though? I'm not working that hard on it. 

I usually read your posts.  I was  surprised to see you enter the conversation with only insults.  I won't be next time.  

[lost 452]

56 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I tend to meet folks on whatever road they're already on. It's a personal flaw. Honestly, though? I'm not working that hard on it. 

yepL

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, lost said:

That is not true for sure.  I ain't ever walked the road you walk in here.  I disagree, and I make my points, But you have never seen filthy language "on MY ROADS" or name calling that is disrespectful.  You can disagree without stepping into the pigpen to do it.  The comment has been made about attending AU, well i admit I didn't.  But i love the Creed.  More than that AU folks ain't my enemy.  

That clears everything up. Thank you.

[AUsince72 11,084]

21 hours ago, abw0004 said:

Let me ask you this, although I am not trying to join in the conversation, just simply something I have wondered.  We were out-gained by 161 yards against Alabama.  Is that more on our defense then?  Did Alabama figure out our defense's deficiency that Minnesota replicated?  For me, I might actually be leaning that way for the Iron Bowl as hard as it is to say that as I LOVE our defense.  I feel like our offense did their job to win the Iron Bowl with 34 points.  In fact, if we scored 34 points against LSU, Florida, and Georgia we win.

It's a team game, so there's that but consider as tough as it's been the last 2 games for the D, they scored almost as many TD's (2) as the O (3) against bammer.  You say the Offense scored 34....well the kicker accounted for 12 of those pts (not even counting XP's).  Unless it's a game winner, with little to no time left, FG's are generally just failures by the O to continue moving the ball.  Too often, the opponent gets a short field and it's a TD.  Too often, Auburn gets a short field and it's a FG (attempt). 

No, the defense did not have a good game at all against MN.  No, they didn't have their best game against bammer but they did an awfully lot of good things to redeem themselves.  Imagine, without the 2 picks, that's 14 fewer points (plus w/out the 100 yd Pick 6, bammer probably adds another 7 themselves).

I just don't understand the mentality of the few on this board that blames the Defense for the losses but believe Gus (& his Offense) is doing a great job.

[abw0004 10,110]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

It's a team game, so there's that but consider as tough as it's been the last 2 games for the D, they scored almost as many TD's (2) as the O (3) against bammer.  You say the Offense scored 34....well the kicker accounted for 12 of those pts (not even counting XP's).  Unless it's a game winner, with little to no time left, FG's are generally just failures by the O to continue moving the ball.  Too often, the opponent gets a short field and it's a TD.  Too often, Auburn gets a short field and it's a FG (attempt). 

No, the defense did not have a good game at all against MN.  No, they didn't have their best game against bammer but they did an awfully lot of good things to redeem themselves.  Imagine, without the 2 picks, that's 14 fewer points (plus w/out the 100 yd Pick 6, bammer probably adds another 7 themselves).

I just don't understand the mentality of the few on this board that blames the Defense for the losses but believe Gus (& his Offense) is doing a great job.

I do agree with all you say with the exception of field goals not being a success.  The only reason being they are still counted for success when calculating red zone scoring efficiency.

[AUsince72 11,084]

10 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I do agree with all you say with the exception of field goals not being a success.  The only reason being they are still counted for success when calculating red zone scoring efficiency.

I understand your point about FG's, and they ARE points.  However, they are less than "the ideal" (TD's obviously) and Auburn is forced to attempt far too many of them for Gus to be an "Offensive guru".  Especially after the defense or ST gives them a short field.

[steeleagle 2,945]

On 1/2/2020 at 4:25 PM, AUFriction said:

For the record, the fake punt call worked. The other team was completely caught off guard, and Minnesota had to interfere to stop the ball from being caught. That play should have drawn a flag, which would have put us 1st and 10 in field goal range. Instead, they got the ball at the 50. 

 

That said, I stand by what I said elsewhere. We lost the game because the team didn't give any effort. Blame whomever you want (I attach some to the bowl committees for putting us in such a terrible bowl), but Bo, Marlon, and Derrick were the only ones that appeared to be playing like they wanted to win. 

No it didn't. Did you watch the replay? The other team was not caught off guard either. I slowed the play down and watched our guy take off down the middle. The second wave of defenders picked him up, brushed him and shadowed him down the middle of the field. Even if the pass gets to our guy, the defender is so close I think he would have batted it away. 

The issue to me, was did the coaches see any tendencies on other punts, and felt this play would work?

 Or did they simply hope to catch them asleep and desperately was trying to get the first down, because  our offense was not moving the ball most of the day. We only had 2 drives where we converted 3rd downs. All the other series we were 0-8 on 3rd downs.

[the_raven_tiger 13]

Did anyone mention that Minnesota lost its OC prior to the bowl game??? Fleck and a short term OC outcoached us.

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 1/4/2020 at 12:08 PM, AUsince72 said:

I understand your point about FG's, and they ARE points.  However, they are less than "the ideal" (TD's obviously) and Auburn is forced to attempt far too many of them for Gus to be an "Offensive guru".  Especially after the defense or ST gives them a short field.

And none of them were chip shots. We weren't even getting into the red zone before kicking them. 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

We lost I  the Outbsck bowl because of Gus' play calling and Auburn's real defense didn't make the trip to Tampa.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Assigning one "reason" to any of our losses THIS season is bizarre (or more likely Malzahn Derangement Syndrome) but if we must, only Minnesota loss was due mainly to coaching. Coaches had us ready for LSU and our D outplayed LSUs vaunted O - only an insane number of holding non calls on key plays cost us that 3 point road loss. UF was also a terrific game plan and if I'm Seth I want to transfer after that game - TDs chances were there for Bo to take. If HALF the blatant UF holds on brown & Davidson are called we probably win (Brown tripping over a blade of grass notwithstanding). UGa game is longer discussion but execution (and again officiating) were as dicey as the coaching.

[cole256 17,046]

48 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Assigning one "reason" to any of our losses THIS season is bizarre (or more likely Malzahn Derangement Syndrome) but if we must, only Minnesota loss was due mainly to coaching. Coaches had us ready for LSU and our D outplayed LSUs vaunted O - only an insane number of holding non calls on key plays cost us that 3 point road loss. UF was also a terrific game plan and if I'm Seth I want to transfer after that game - TDs chances were there for Bo to take. If HALF the blatant UF holds on brown & Davidson are called we probably win (Brown tripping over a blade of grass notwithstanding). UGa game is longer discussion but execution (and again officiating) were as dicey as the coaching.

Don't forget if we had played well in every game we win. You can just say that and cover all bases. If we coached and played better we would win all games.....of course everybody else can say the same thing but that's moot

[ToraGirl 5,498]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Don't forget if we had played well in every game we win. You can just say that and cover all bases. If we coached and played better we would win all games.....of course everybody else can say the same thing but that's moot

Cole, that's not moot at all. That's actually the point. That's what's so funny sometimes. But if you can see the big pic, it's not funny enough to laugh at. Sigh.

On to 2020!

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, aucanucktiger said:

Assigning one "reason" to any of our losses THIS season is bizarre (or more likely Malzahn Derangement Syndrome) but if we must, only Minnesota loss was due mainly to coaching. Coaches had us ready for LSU and our D outplayed LSUs vaunted O - only an insane number of holding non calls on key plays cost us that 3 point road loss. UF was also a terrific game plan and if I'm Seth I want to transfer after that game - TDs chances were there for Bo to take. If HALF the blatant UF holds on brown & Davidson are called we probably win (Brown tripping over a blade of grass notwithstanding). UGa game is longer discussion but execution (and again officiating) were as dicey as the coaching.

Okay, once again, for all of you who get your feelings hurt because we continue to criticize Gus, this is how it happens. This is where it starts. At this point in the offseason, there are virtually no threads that start with negativity. What is offered is counterpoints to comments like the ones above. 

-We had 287 total yards of offense and 20 points against LSU. In year 7 of Gus's tenure, in a season where he finally dropped the facade and publicly acknowledged that he has total and complete control of our offense.

-We had 269 total yards of offense and 13 points against UF. In year 7 of Gus's tenure, in a season where he finally dropped the facade and publicly acknowledged that he has total and complete control of our offense.

-In what dimension is a head coach not responsible for having his team prepared to execute the game plan? What bizarre logic could possibly dictate that he can be forgiven- in year 7- for his players not being able to run the plays? 

Whine all you want, but when opinions like the above are offered, everyone else is 100% entitled to offer a response. If you don't like the response, then maybe try holding the man responsible for the results accountable for once. 

[gr82be 14,423]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Okay, once again, for all of you who get your feelings hurt because we continue to criticize Gus, this is how it happens. This is where it starts. At this point in the offseason, there are virtually no threads that start with negativity. What is offered is counterpoints to comments like the ones above. 

-We had 287 total yards of offense and 20 points against LSU. In year 7 of Gus's tenure, in a season where he finally dropped the facade and publicly acknowledged that he has total and complete control of our offense.

-We had 269 total yards of offense and 13 points against UF. In year 7 of Gus's tenure, in a season where he finally dropped the facade and publicly acknowledged that he has total and complete control of our offense.

-In what dimension is a head coach not responsible for having his team prepared to execute the game plan? What bizarre logic could possibly dictate that he can be forgiven- in year 7- for his players not being able to run the plays? 

Whine all you want, but when opinions like the above are offered, everyone else is 100% entitled to offer a response. If you don't like the response, then maybe try holding the man responsible for the results accountable for once. 

It's not like most of us haven't tried to be supportive of Gus either. Every season we start off with a clean slate with some variable to give us hope. It could be a new OC, a new QB, a returning QB, a returning OC, Gus taking the reins back, etc. Then reality sets in before September is over that it's the same ole same ole same ole and it's just hard to keep the faith. How some do not see what the problem is is beyond me. Gus is the one constant in all of these seasons. We constantly hear execution as the excuse. Please tell me how LSU, Clemson and other contenders are identifying the recruits who can execute but we are signing a top ten class who is unable to. It's not the players, people, it's the coach. I'll give the Gus Bus riders this, we could be in worse shape, but that is not a silver lining, it's fools gold. 

[AURealist 2,185]

11 hours ago, aucanucktiger said:

Assigning one "reason" to any of our losses THIS season is bizarre (or more likely Malzahn Derangement Syndrome) but if we must, only Minnesota loss was due mainly to coaching. Coaches had us ready for LSU and our D outplayed LSUs vaunted O - only an insane number of holding non calls on key plays cost us that 3 point road loss. UF was also a terrific game plan and if I'm Seth I want to transfer after that game - TDs chances were there for Bo to take. If HALF the blatant UF holds on brown & Davidson are called we probably win (Brown tripping over a blade of grass notwithstanding). UGa game is longer discussion but execution (and again officiating) were as dicey as the coaching.

Blaming officiating is the laziest and most pathetic of all excuse-making.  

The 'if only -insert one play here- went our way we would have won the game' excuse, unless it's the last play of the game, is second.  

Falling for these types of arguments is the sort of thinking that keeps us from making changes needed to become a better team.   If  the team is a repeated 'victim' of biased officiating then the coach should make a stink and/or prepare his team to win through it.  Adapt, persevere and overcome.  Whining and excuses are for folks who want to feel good about continuing to lose.