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2 minutes ago, WarTim said:

I stand by my statement. No excuse for lack of morals on the part of any human. 

No excuse for ignorance either but here we are. 

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7 hours ago, DAG said:

Very ignorant statement. You definitely need to brush up on the power of Low social economic status and it’s effects on culture. 

You can be empathetic to people's plight while also not condoning corruption. I tend to believe all human beings are stronger and more capable than having to resort to dishonest ways to get by.  

Note: of course taking a college football bribe isn't a legit crime. If a mom really needs a house for her kids, I get it. But this is a broader philosophical point. Using socio-economic status to justify doing the wrong thing is messed up. It not only emboldens people to do wrong, but it infantilizes people so they think there's no option BUT to do wrong. 

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7 hours ago, DAG said:

No excuse for ignorance either but here we are. 

(Related movie tangent), I am guessing from your Killmonger avatar you're on the "but the bad guy did nothing wrong" train. Hollywood definitely bakes that into every villain now. 

(I didn't like Killmonger but I think that's because I am jealous of Michael B. Jordan's bod).

Edited by AUght2win

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18 hours ago, WarTim said:

I stand by my statement. No excuse for lack of morals on the part of any human. 

How lucky you are to have the luxury of thinking that way. And how asinine to not even try to see things from a different point of view. 

 

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19 hours ago, DAG said:

No excuse for ignorance either but here we are. 

There you are

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On 2/14/2020 at 8:55 PM, McLoofus said:

This is why words like "free" and "given" are ignorant at best.

Words like "Free " and "Given" are used because of all of the talk about getting "Nothing".  All of this arguing is silly.  This is a simple problem in the greatest country in the world.  If you don't feel like you are receiving adequate compensation for your time and energy, then quit.  Nobody is "Forcing" anyone to play football.  If I don't like what my job pays in relation to the millions of dollars in sales that I bring in every year then I have a choice to make.  There is no law that says I have to work there.  Likewise there is no law that states I am owed more money because the business is so successful.

If you want a degree, you can either pay for a place to stay, your meals, your books, and your tuition while taking real classes or you can earn an athletic scholarship to help pay for as much of it as possible with tutors to do everything possible to keep you qualified.  Just don't talk to me about what you are "Owed" because the big bully University is making money and you get "Nothing " out of it.  Nobody is forcing you to play football.  Lets also don't pretend that any athlete that can keep his nose clean is set up permanently with a better than most job doing something in the pharma field or insurance field.  If you don't act like a DA then life won't be too hard after football.

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4 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Words like "Free " and "Given" are used because of all of the talk about getting "Nothing".  All of this arguing is silly.  This is a simple problem in the greatest country in the world.  If you don't feel like you are receiving adequate compensation for your time and energy, then quit.  Nobody is "Forcing" anyone to play football.  If I don't like what my job pays in relation to the millions of dollars in sales that I bring in every year then I have a choice to make.  There is no law that says I have to work there.  Likewise there is no law that states I am owed more money because the business is so successful.

If you want a degree, you can either pay for a place to stay, your meals, your books, and your tuition while taking real classes or you can earn an athletic scholarship to help pay for as much of it as possible with tutors to do everything possible to keep you qualified.  Just don't talk to me about what you are "Owed" because the big bully University is making money and you get "Nothing " out of it.  Nobody is forcing you to play football.  Lets also don't pretend that any athlete that can keep his nose clean is set up permanently with a better than most job doing something in the pharma field or insurance field.  If you don't act like a DA then life won't be too hard after football.

So I'm assuming you would never ask for a raise at your job?

Also, I haven't seen anyone say that the players are getting "nothing". Only that they don't get fair compensation for the services they provide. And if anyone *is* saying that they get "nothing", then they are an exception to the overwhelmingly prevailing argument.

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

So I'm assuming you would never ask for a raise at your job?

Also, I haven't seen anyone say that the players are getting "nothing". Only that they don't get fair compensation for the services they provide. And if anyone *is* saying that they get "nothing", then they are an exception to the overwhelmingly prevailing argument.

Yes I would ask for a raise.  I don't want to split hairs but what is the cost for 5 years of rent, meals, tuition, books, tutors, a job interview with the NFL and a nice job to fall back on worth these days?

I can tell you what it costs a student who is going to college out of state.  I can tell you how long it will take for that student to pay off those loans and debt for those 5 years.

Out of State tuition, books, room and board as well as 3-$12 meals a day is around $64,000 per year.

I think when you add the tutors and other perks $65-$70K a year is a good pay rate for an Athlete in College.  Best part is they don't have to acquire loans that take forever to pay this off.  Is that minuscule compared to what the school brings in? Of course it is.  Is the income of a General manager at a Chevy Dealership minuscule compared to what Chevrolet makes a year? Heck yeah.

 

  

Edited by NorthGATiger
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On 2/16/2020 at 11:23 PM, AUght2win said:

I am not envious because envy means a desire to take a possession from someone else. I don't want to take anything from these kids. I love college football. I am thrilled kids get to enjoy something so special. I am less than thrilled people make it sound like these kids are doing slave labor. Just be honest. 

And if you want to go toe to toe, what's the false narrative I am working from? Be specific. People are extremely envious these days and want to tear others down. It's the common denominator behind #cancelculture and entitlement and identity politics and race baiting and victim cards. 

If you don't believe so, that is your right, but try turning on a TV or logging onto twitter. People are bitter right now. Because in some form or another, they have been led to believe that the world owes them something.

Take your political whining to the correct forum. I'm not about to debate you  here because this is not the right place for it. And I'm disgusted that it's been allowed here where it has nothing to do with this subject. It's extremely offensive to our student-athletes. Shame on you. 

And you are envious. It's very obvious. You don't quite know the meaning of envy. But I'll clue you in.....you fit that primary definition. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envy

You think football players want something for nothing. That makes you willfully ignorant. They work extremely hard, put in very long days and face a lot of stress mentally and physically. They deserve a fair piece of a huge pie, especially since they do most of the work and sacrificing to produce that pie. There would be no pie without them. And whether you like it or not....that is the reality.  

My oldest is a college professor, and she will tell you that the football players in her classes are usually the harder workers. They may not have the highest grades, but they show up and do the work. Many of them are very poor kids and they struggle. But they do put in the effort.

You know very little about student athletes, and what it takes for them to succeed.

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54 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Yes I would ask for a raise.  I don't want to split hairs but what is the cost for 5 years of rent, meals, tuition, books, tutors, a job interview with the NFL and a nice job to fall back on worth these days?

I can tell you what it costs a student who is going to college out of state.  I can tell you how long it will take for that student to pay off those loans and debt for those 5 years.

Out of State tuition, books, room and board as well as 3-$12 meals a day is around $64,000 per year.

I think when you add the tutors and other perks $65-$70K a year is a good pay rate for an Athlete in College.  Best part is they don't have to acquire loans that take forever to pay this off.  Is that minuscule compared to what the school brings in? Of course it is.  Is the income of a General manager at a Chevy Dealership minuscule compared to what Chevrolet makes a year? Heck yeah.

 

 

Many of the student-athletes have student loans. Not sure why you would think they don't. I personally know several who have student loan debt. They can't work, and unless their parents have lots of money.....it has to come from somewhere while they are in school.  Many college football players are either from very poor families or they are lower middle class kids. Some of them have kids to support, or a family in need. 

A for the $65-$70 k per year......these kids are not just laying around cashing a check. They are the most crucial part of the entire industry. 

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1 hour ago, NorthGATiger said:

Yes I would ask for a raise. 

You shouldn't. You're already getting paid. If you don't like it, quit.

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28 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Many of the student-athletes have student loans. Not sure why you would think they don't. I personally know several who have student loan debt. They can't work, and unless their parents have lots of money.....it has to come from somewhere while they are in school.  Many college football players are either from very poor families or they are lower middle class kids. Some of them have kids to support, or a family in need. 

A for the $65-$70 k per year......these kids are not just laying around cashing a check. They are the most crucial part of the entire industry. 

Many regular students are also from poor families or are lower middle class. NOBODY said the kids were laying around or not earning their $70k. 

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15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You shouldn't. You're already getting paid. If you don't like it, quit.

Thank you. Exactly. I have a choice to make. NOBODY is forcing me one way or the other.

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17 hours ago, AUght2win said:

(Related movie tangent), I am guessing from your Killmonger avatar you're on the "but the bad guy did nothing wrong" train. Hollywood definitely bakes that into every villain now. 

(I didn't like Killmonger but I think that's because I am jealous of Michael B. Jordan's bod).

My movie avatar? You would be wrong. If it was up to me, We wouldn’t have avatars at all. I personally rather see the faces of the people making these arguments. 

Edited by DAG

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3 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Take your political whining to the correct forum. I'm not about to debate you  here because this is not the right place for it. And I'm disgusted that it's been allowed here where it has nothing to do with this subject. It's extremely offensive to our student-athletes. Shame on you. 

And you are envious. It's very obvious. You don't quite know the meaning of envy. But I'll clue you in.....you fit that primary definition. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envy

You think football players want something for nothing. That makes you willfully ignorant. They work extremely hard, put in very long days and face a lot of stress mentally and physically. They deserve a fair piece of a huge pie, especially since they do most of the work and sacrificing to produce that pie. There would be no pie without them. And whether you like it or not....that is the reality.  

My oldest is a college professor, and she will tell you that the football players in her classes are usually the harder workers. They may not have the highest grades, but they show up and do the work. Many of them are very poor kids and they struggle. But they do put in the effort.

You know very little about student athletes, and what it takes for them to succeed.

Amen.

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1 hour ago, NorthGATiger said:

Many regular students are also from poor families or are lower middle class. NOBODY said the kids were laying around or not earning their $70k. 

The reply was directed to someone who specifically posted that people want something for nothing. So yeah SOMEBODY did say that using different words. That's a point he made. He doesn't think they work that hard. 

Some of you are completely clueless about how much time and energy it takes to be a student athlete in today's college environment.

Of course...many students are from poor families. In fact....homelessness and hunger are growing problems among college kids. But we were supposed to be talking about student athletes. 

The DIFFERENCE is that a poor regular student on scholarship is allowed to earn money from their talent without being penalized for it. No one says an art student can't make money from selling their artwork or using their artistic skills to earn money.  Music students make money playing music.....and on and on. Student-athletes are the only ones excluded from that opportunity. 

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2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Thank you. Exactly. I have a choice to make. NOBODY is forcing me one way or the other.

No, not exactly. Don't say thank you.

You said that if the players don't like the current arrangement, they should quit. But you are allowed to ask for a raise if you don't like your current arrangement.

Why the difference? I mean, I know, but I'd like to hear you say it.

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On 2/14/2020 at 7:27 PM, copper4eva said:

Excellent point actually. I'm a senior in chemical engineering right now. Zero chance I get through this major while playing football. At least, not on time.

Had a friend that played soccer on scholarship at SMU and earned a engineering degree on time. Multiple games a week with alot it on a bus not plane, back before NCAA put limits on practice times, played under Hyndman that went on to coach Dallas FC in the MSL and was incredibly demanding. Went on to med school at Stanford.

Lol myself and everyone that went on to play pretty much ran 3 a days preseason and then 2 a days throughout the rest of the season except day prior to a game. My coach even would go Herb Brooks on us :

 

So wish I would of grown up somewhere I could of played hockey.

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11 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Had a friend that played soccer on scholarship at SMU and earned a engineering degree on time. Multiple games a week with alot it on a bus not plane, back before NCAA put limits on practice times, played under Hyndman that went on to coach Dallas FC in the MSL and was incredibly demanding. Went on to med school at Stanford.

Lol myself and everyone that went on to play pretty much ran 3 a days preseason and then 2 a days throughout the rest of the season except day prior to a game. My coach even would go Herb Brooks on us :

 

So wish I would of grown up somewhere I could of played hockey.

Robert Leff earned a degree in mechanical engineering while at Auburn. Definitely doable, just not free.

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17 hours ago, McLoofus said:

No, not exactly. Don't say thank you.

You said that if the players don't like the current arrangement, they should quit. But you are allowed to ask for a raise if you don't like your current arrangement.

Why the difference? I mean, I know, but I'd like to hear you say it.

They asked for and just got their raise with the stipend.

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:49 PM, Tigerbelle said:

Take your political whining to the correct forum. I'm not about to debate you  here because this is not the right place for it. And I'm disgusted that it's been allowed here where it has nothing to do with this subject. It's extremely offensive to our student-athletes. Shame on you. 

And you are envious. It's very obvious. You don't quite know the meaning of envy. But I'll clue you in.....you fit that primary definition. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envy

You think football players want something for nothing. That makes you willfully ignorant. They work extremely hard, put in very long days and face a lot of stress mentally and physically. They deserve a fair piece of a huge pie, especially since they do most of the work and sacrificing to produce that pie. There would be no pie without them. And whether you like it or not....that is the reality.  

My oldest is a college professor, and she will tell you that the football players in her classes are usually the harder workers. They may not have the highest grades, but they show up and do the work. Many of them are very poor kids and they struggle. But they do put in the effort.

You know very little about student athletes, and what it takes for them to succeed.

You are extremely thin-skinned and need to chill. 

I also said very little politically. Honestly a little freaked out by how upset you're getting. 

Edited by AUght2win

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On 2/21/2020 at 6:29 PM, DAG said:

My movie avatar? You would be wrong. If it was up to me, We wouldn’t have avatars at all. I personally rather see the faces of the people making these arguments. 

But that IS a Killmonger avatar?

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On 2/21/2020 at 4:16 PM, Tigerbelle said:

Many of the student-athletes have student loans. Not sure why you would think they don't. I personally know several who have student loan debt. They can't work, and unless their parents have lots of money.....it has to come from somewhere while they are in school.  Many college football players are either from very poor families or they are lower middle class kids. Some of them have kids to support, or a family in need. 

A for the $65-$70 k per year......these kids are not just laying around cashing a check. They are the most crucial part of the entire industry. 

No D1 scholarship football player has student loans lmao. Baseball, rowing, tennis, golf? I am certain those kids do. And I am also certain that if we outright paid college football players, there would no longer be enough money to support less popular sports that aren't self-funding. Do you understand that college football is literally the lifeblood of major D1 programs? Y'all like to imagine Jay Gouge or the board of trustees or a TV exec splitting up all of Auburn football's proceeds for a new pad on Lake Martin, but that isn't how it works. At all.

Here are some highlights from an Article on 2018 Athletic Department profits and expenditures by the Montgomery Advertiser:

Auburn makes 147 mil. 93 of that alone from football:

Auburn's athletics department reported a record revenue of $147.6 million during the 2017-18 fiscal year, according to the university’s NCAA Membership Financial Report

Actual profit:

Auburn's overall profit margin decreased, according to the annual report released to the Montgomery Advertiser Tuesday in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Auburn reported an operating excess of $7.8 million.

Expenses:

 

That decrease in profit comes from an increase in total department expenses, which rose from $132.8 million during the 2016-17 fiscal year to $139.7 million in 2017-18.

The areas Auburn saw the biggest increase in spending were coaching salaries ($23.6 million to $26.2 million), support staff compensation ($25.3 million to $26.7 million) and team travel ($5.6 million to $7.3 million) — the football team made three of the farthest possible SEC road trips to Missouri, Arkansas and Texas A&M, and the men's basketball team played in the NCAA Tournament in San Diego, California.

Football and basketball only two sports in the black:

Football was responsible for most of the revenue, bringing in $93.5 million, or nearly 64 percent, of the university's total. That number rose by $2.2 million from the season prior. Men's basketball also saw an increase in revenue, from $9.9 million to $11.2 million.

Those were the only two sports where Auburn saw an operating surplus (of $49.1 million and $1.7 million, respectively) which is typical across NCAA athletics. The the rest of the university's teams teams operated at a loss of $22.3 million.

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13 hours ago, copper4eva said:

Robert Leff earned a degree in mechanical engineering while at Auburn. Definitely doable, just not free.

It is very very doable. Just depends on if the athlete wants it or not. I was a D1 scholarship soccer player prior to injury. When I was there like I said no practice rules and all that crap. You also knew during those days there was no pro career in that sport. So you had to choose and earn a legit degree. You played cause you got some scholarship money (full rides did not exist) and cause you wanted to play the game.

Then if you needed to, you got a job during the summer to save money and balanced that job with playing summer club/tournament ball.

And yes I agree it isn't free. The scholarship is earned. Much rather pay for school on an athletic field than busing tables personally.

Edited by Texan4Auburn
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On 2/14/2020 at 7:49 PM, Brad_ATX said:

I don't think most people truly understand what football players go through at a major  university as far as time commitment is concerned.  The average Joe couldn't handle what players do on a day-to-day basis.  It's quite literally a 15 hour day.  Here's something put out by UF a few years ago. 

  • 6:00-7:00 a.m.: Wake up
  • 7:00-7:45 a.m.: Eat breakfast
  • 8:00-11:30 a.m.: Class
  • 12:00-12:30 p.m.: Eat lunch
  • 12:30-1:30 p.m.: Lift
  • 1:30-2:30 p.m.: Fuel and recover
  • 2:30-3:30 p.m.: Meetings
  • 3:30-5:30 p.m.: Practice
  • 6:00-6:30 p.m.: Fuel and recover
  • 6:30-7:00 p.m.: Eat
  • 7:30-9:00 p.m.: Study

https://www.alligatorarmy.com/2015/6/9/8752711/florida-gators-football-players-daily-schedule-graphic

I worked a 30 hour a week job and another 20-30 on campus doing media.  There's no way I could have handled this schedule though.  Gotta remember, this is just weekdays.  Doesn't even include Sundays, travel, missed classes from travel that you have to make up, etc.

Wtf they got a hour and 45 minutes in the morning to wake up and eat? Lol our schedule was on the field at 6 and 6:15 to 7:15 was run sprint run sprint run sprint throw up run sprint run sprint run sprint throw up some more. 7:15 was get your s*** together and eat something on the way to class at 8 (we didn't get meals included). Our damn practices were like 3-7 (meetings, skill work, tactics, and a full 90 minute scrimmage with no half) . That's if coach was happy. If not it was more run sprint run sprint run sprint throw up. Our fuel and recover was sitting in an air conditioned classroom drinking a Gatorade. Lifting... ya whenever you could get your routine done even if that meant 30 minutes before one class and then 30 after it was over. Lunch was get it where and when you could.

I should of been a damn football kicker/punter lol.

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