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homersapien

The Fox News moment that revealed a dangerously confused president

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17 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

I’m not sure there is one word/category that can describe some conservatives that want Trump to succeed even  with the numerous faults he has.  I took a *wait and see* attitude when he was elected and frankly I had my doubts to his effectiveness after the non-stop Russian Asset label was given to him by most of the media.  I thought when he started bashing the CIA and FBI he was done.  Not so, there seems to be smoke there.  The only thing the Mueller report did was to prove most of the media lied to us for years.

The way the Kavanaugh hearings were covered by the same media was disgraceful and the ill-advised impeachment was no better.  What a waste of a congress for three years.  What Trump did was fight every step of the way and for that you have to hand it to him, no matter what side of the isle you’re on.  The man is a fighter and that’s what you need in a crisis as long as he listens to his advisors (which he seems to do).

What will make or break him is how we recover from now until November.  One thing is certain, I can never trust the media to tell the true story, it is greatly slanted to the left to the point that even in times like these, with a pandemic raging, the media has a hard time telling the truth.  There is always some bias against this administration in the way they present the story.  It has not learned from it’s failures in the past.

Below is a new Gallup Poll that rates U.S. Leaders and Institutions in the current crisis.  The Media is the only one with a negative rating.

Approval Ratings of U.S. Leaders' and Institutions' Handling of Response to Coronavirus
Do you approve or disapprove of the way each of the following is handling the response to the coronavirus in the U.S.?
  Approve Disapprove Does not apply (vol.)/No opinion
  % % %
U.S. hospitals 88 10 2
Your child's school or daycare † 83 9 8
Your state government 82 17 1
Your employer ^ 82 14 4
Government health agencies such as the CDC or NIH 80 17 2
Vice President Mike Pence 61 32 7
President Donald Trump 60 38 1
Congress 59 37 4
The news media 44 55 1
^ Based on 536 employed adults; † Based on 262 parents of children under 18; (vol.) = volunteered response

GALLUP, MARCH 13-22, 2020

https://news.gallup.com/poll/300680/coronavirus-response-hospitals-rated-best-news-media-worst.aspx

Your working your way back to full blown MAGA status. :no:

And if your concern is really with the media, I suggest to stick to PBS.

Edited by homersapien

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On 3/26/2020 at 12:36 PM, I_M4_AU said:

Here is Dr Birx speaking about media hysteria:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4863818/user-clip-dr-birx-misleading-infection-rates

TRANSCRIPT:

We have done some things that are horizontal across the country but we are collecting data now in a county by county granular way. So, it’s like any epidemic, it’s not equal everywhere.

There are places that are very spared and places where there is more. We have a very vast country with a lot of capacity and a lot of infrastructure.

Looking specifically about where the virus has been, where is it going, who has freed up resources from where it has been because it didn’t hit Washington State before it hit New York, and looking at those pieces to ensure how we can innovately move equipment around based on the need. And so I know that it has become a place where people are looking numbers rather than what is needed.

If you do these projections, when you got to those projections that said like in Germany and others that implied that 60% or 50% of the population would get infected, I want to be very clear, the only way that happens, is that this virus remains continuously moving through populations in this cycle, in the fall cycle and another cycle. That’s through three cycles with nothing being done.

We are dealing with cycle ‘A’ right now, not one that could come in the Fall of 2020 and that we’re getting prepared for by the innovations that are being worked on, and not 2021 [cycle]. We’re really dealing with the here and now while we are planning for the future. And I think the numbers that have been put out there are actually very frightening to people.

But I can tell you if you go back and look at Wuhan and Hubei and all of these provinces, when they talk about 60,000 people being infected, even if you said, alright well there’s asymptomatics and all of that, so you get to 600,000 people out of 80 million. That is nowhere close to the numbers that you see people putting out there. I think it has frightened the American people.

I think on a model you just run full out, you can get to those numbers if you have 0 controls and you do nothing and we know that every American is doing something and so I think what our job right now is, is to carefully detail on a hospital by hospital, state by state, county by county to outline what the infrastructure needs are and ensure that we are meeting them, both from the stockpile and from the generosity and movement of the American people.

This, to me, is reassuring as it comes directly from the CDC Task Force. 

I suggest you read this:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21197074/deborah-birx-praised-trump-scientific-literature-coronavirus

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2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Your working your way back to full blown MAGA status. :no:

And if your concern is really with the media, I suggest to stick to PBS.

Interesting.  You have suggested in the past to stick with PBS and NPR, yet you link articles from VOX. Can you have it both ways?  Do you suggest PBS and NPR for people who disagree with you so they will *see the light*?

Is MAGA status an *ism* meant to shut down conversation?

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I thought you believed in science and that scientists were not political?  I guess the scientists are not political if they believe what you believe, otherwise they’re just useful fools.

Mixed signals here. Linking VOX and not believing in science.

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2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Interesting.  You have suggested in the past to stick with PBS and NPR, yet you link articles from VOX. Can you have it both ways?  Do you suggest PBS and NPR for people who disagree with you so they will *see the light*?

 

I don't rely on Vox for news, only focused opinion articles that I agree with.

PBS doesn't do a lot of opinion, primarily Shields and Brooks on their Newshour.  I'll start referencing more of them for you benefit.

 

Is MAGA status an *ism* meant to shut down conversation?

MAGA status puts one into the category of having deficient critical thinking.  It's the same phenomenon common to most cults, both political and religious.  For example, a MAGA might regularly listen to Fox news and conclude Trump is actually doing a good job.

Edited by homersapien
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1 minute ago, homersapien said:

MAGA status puts one into the category of having deficient critical thinking.  It's the same phenomenon common to most cults, both political and religious.  Fort example, a MAGA might regularly listen Fox news and conclude Trump is actually doing a good job

Identity politics at its best.  No need to listen to what one says, just lump them in with a preconceived notion of what you decide they are.  Well done.

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22 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I thought you believed in science and that scientists were not political?  I guess the scientists are not political if they believe what you believe, otherwise they’re just useful fools.

Mixed signals here. Linking VOX and not believing in science.

Who said scientists were not political? 

Science is not political, but scientists are people just like everyone else, just more scientifically informed. (But a few are "useful fools" - primarily the ones who subordinate their scientific knowledge to self-serving purposes.)

See my response above re Vox.  I quote Vox for their focused political opinion.

I fail to see the the link between that and my "belief in science".

Edited by homersapien

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20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Identity politics at its best.  

No need to listen to what one says, just lump them in with a preconceived notion of what you decide they are.  

Well done.

Yep.

Actually I do listen to their unfounded and irrational nonsense, which forms the basis of my opinion about them.

Thank you.

Edited by homersapien

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1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Science is not political, but scientists are people just like everyone else, just more scientifically informed. (But a few are "useful fools" - primarily the ones who subordinate their scientific knowledge to self-serving reasons purposes

People have used this logic with the *climate change* crowd and have been excoriated (not me) because of it.

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16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

People have used this logic with the *climate change* crowd and have been excoriated (not me) because of it.

Those are the "scientists" I am referring to (amongst a few others in history).  AGW deniers.

As you will see, climate change is just as real as the coronavirus pandemic, but on a different time scale. 

Edited by homersapien

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23 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Those are the "scientists" I am referring to (amongst a few others in history).  AGW deniers.

As you will see, climate change is just as real as the coronavirus pandemic, but on a different time scale. 

Love the name calling.  Anybody that disagrees with you is put in a certain category.  I thought our generation didn’t like generalizations?  

The Coronavirus has brought up the use of modeling.  The worst case scenario (model) is what is used to tell the masses what could happen if deterrents are not put in place and when deterrents are put in place the models change.   

Are we still going to be extinct in 10 years?

ETA:  I don’t want this thread too off track, so I’ll stop.  Suffice it to say we disagree on numerous levels.

Edited by I_M4_AU
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1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Love the name calling.  Anybody that disagrees with you is put in a certain category.  I thought our generation didn’t like generalizations?  

The Coronavirus has brought up the use of modeling.  The worst case scenario (model) is what is used to tell the masses what could happen if deterrents are not put in place and when deterrents are put in place the models change.   

Are we still going to be extinct in 10 years?

ETA:  I don’t want this thread too off track, so I’ll stop.  Suffice it to say we disagree on numerous levels.

What name calling?

Pandemic models are merely mathematical analysis reflecting our understanding of the science with the variable of our potential responses.  Not sure if you had a point in your statement.

Of course not. I know of no such science-based claim.  Do you?

I am not surprised.

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:31 AM, homersapien said:

That's a very weak distinction.  Splitting hairs so to speak.  The issue here is not if Trump literally "urged" Americans to do anything it's that his statements encourage others to take the situation much less seriously and ignore recommendations from the experts.  It's the equivalent of passive urging:

Trump told Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer he selected Easter as the day he wants businesses to reopen, saying he’d like to see “packed churches all over our country” — the exact type of large gatherings that the CDC, the WHO, and Trump’s top health advisers have all urged suspended to help stop the spread of the virus.

“I would love to have it opened by Easter,” Trump said, speaking about when he sees the country returning to normal life.

His statements set the tone for most his supporters - most of whom are scientifically illiterate - and they are already exhibiting lax behavior in response to the pandemic.  They take their lead from Trump. (See polling data on how Democrats pandemic behavior vs. Republicans for proof.)

In fact, Trump has minimized the threat from the very beginning. It's a clear and consistent pattern.  And even implying we can suspend isolation behavior for Easter is part of the same pattern.  It will encourage people to do exactly that.

So spare me the pearl clutching over the nuance of whether or not he actually "urged" Americans to open up by Easter (which he cannot dictate at any rate) instead of telling them he "wants" to open up by Easter (which he most certainly said) it's a relatively minor distinction in terms of the effect it will have:

As for me "peddling lies" that's just BS. 

This one inconsequential discrepancy example hardly amounts to "peddling lies".  If you want to see what "peddling lies" looks like, tune in to Fox cable.  Or just continue listening to Trump. 

Translation: "I don't care what Trump actually said, I will assume that he meant something that I can spew more hate about."

I agree that Fox lies, but that doesn't make it okay for YOU to.

I apologize for saying that you were "peddling lies." I'll just say that what you typed was incredibly misleading. Is that better?

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On 3/27/2020 at 9:25 PM, alexava said:

You really need to meet some of the shitgibbons I know. Hell some are probably here. They have created hard plans to attend an Easter service wearing MAGA hats. 

I am quite sure that there are plenty of idiots out there who are just as you describe. There are also plenty of idiots who intentionally distort what POTUS says just to further the hate--just like different idiots did with Obama.

Like I have said many times on here, Trump ACTUALLY says enough stupid things to criticize him for that it seems crazy to criticize him for things that he NEVER said.

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On 3/29/2020 at 9:25 AM, Grumps said:

Translation: "I don't care what Trump actually said, I will assume that he meant something that I can spew more hate about."

I agree that Fox lies, but that doesn't make it okay for YOU to.

I apologize for saying that you were "peddling lies." I'll just say that what you typed was incredibly misleading. Is that better?

No you are wrong.

I posted the transcript of what Trump "actually" said.  There is no need to try to make it any worse that what he said.  (It wouldn't even have occurred to me to do so.)

You, on the other hand,  are the one straining to recast his saying - in his typical rambling style  - this is the Democrat's new hoax as being not as bad as the direct statement "coronavirus is a hoax". 

In fact, I don't see any difference at all.  In either case he is reducing the coronavirus pandemic to the category of a hoax.

Either statement is just as mendacious as the other.  There is no intellectual distinction between the do.  It's trying to make a distinction without any real difference. 

As far as me lying, all I did was was post an article verbatim. My outrage was directed toward the "Democrats new hoax".  I didn't really make a distinction about him calling coronavirus a hoax vs. Democrats using coronavirus as "their new hoax".   

I find it rather pathetic that you - or anyone else - would make such a pointless issue as if it changes or excuses what he said, which is plenty bad enough.

 

Edited by homersapien
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On 3/27/2020 at 5:50 PM, I_M4_AU said:

What will make or break him is how we recover from now until November.  One thing is certain, I can never trust the media to tell the true story, it is greatly slanted to the left to the point that even in times like these, with a pandemic raging, the media has a hard time telling the truth.  There is always some bias against this administration in the way they present the story.  It has not learned from it’s failures in the past.

Below is a new Gallup Poll that rates U.S. Leaders and Institutions in the current crisis.  The Media is the only one with a negative rating.

I believe the media became political party operatives years ago. Fox on the right, and CNN/MSNBC on the left. If one only uses one source for the ‘truth’ , that person’s perspective will be tainted for sure. But I find it interesting that FOX constantly brags about being the number one name in news while constantly complaining about how liberal the media is. They’re the most watched and they spend 24/7 defending and promoting Trump. So one could argue that the liberal outlets are just balancing the scales. Truth is, I cannot spend more than 10 or 15 minutes a day watching either side anymore. 

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6 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I believe the media became political party operatives years ago. Fox on the right, and CNN/MSNBC on the left. If one only uses one source for the ‘truth’ , that person’s perspective will be tainted for sure. But I find it interesting that FOX constantly brags about being the number one name in news while constantly complaining about how liberal the media is. They’re the most watched and they spend 24/7 defending and promoting Trump. So one could argue that the liberal outlets are just balancing the scales. Truth is, I cannot spend more than 10 or 15 minutes a day watching either side anymore. 

I watch NBC and FOX and where then intersect is close to the truth.  One never knows anymore.

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On 3/28/2020 at 1:26 PM, I_M4_AU said:

 I don’t want this thread too off track, so I’ll stop.  Suffice it to say we disagree on numerous levels.

Good call, he won't regardless how many pinocchios his articles receive, no many how many fact checkers tell him his article is wrong, etc., etc., etc.

I read an article earlier that stated something along the lines that many of today's liberal authors think they are smarter than us and we won't see their errors. Well, yeah they are smarter than some for certain, but consider who their audience is. You nor I would get a look. 

Edited by AUFAN78
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On 3/29/2020 at 4:17 PM, Gowebb11 said:

I believe the media became political party operatives years ago. Fox on the right, and CNN/MSNBC on the left. If one only uses one source for the ‘truth’ , that person’s perspective will be tainted for sure. But I find it interesting that FOX constantly brags about being the number one name in news while constantly complaining about how liberal the media is. They’re the most watched and they spend 24/7 defending and promoting Trump. So one could argue that the liberal outlets are just balancing the scales. Truth is, I cannot spend more than 10 or 15 minutes a day watching either side anymore. 

Three letters:  PBS

If you can't get the full PBS broadcast channels (4)  get an antenna.

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On 3/26/2020 at 10:38 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Isn’t one of Trump’s job is to bring hope to Americans that are nervous about the future?  He didn’t say we will be normalized by Easter, he said it would be great if we were.  The only people that are upset about that are people that don’t believe a thing he says. If Easter comes and the numbers indicate that portions of the American business can resume and the epidemiologists agree, what would you say then?

The media and some people that never believe what Trump says are now believing everything he says?  How disingenuous. Either you believe him or you don’t.   There is not a reasonable person that takes everything he, or anybody else, says at face value.  Most should be doing what is best for them, take all the available information and act reasonable. 

Please don’t drink the fish tank cleaner.

The libs never quote Trump verbatim. They take bits and pieces of his sentences and revamp them to mean something completely different to suit their own agenda. Pretty sure Nancy Pelosi's  goal is to make them all as delusional as she is, so that she seems to be more normal and coherent.

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42 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

The libs never quote Trump verbatim. They take bits and pieces of his sentences and revamp them to mean something completely different to suit their own agenda. Pretty sure Nancy Pelosi's  goal is to make them all as delusional as she is, so that she seems to be more normal and coherent.

Trump talks in "bits and pieces". 

That's why I always quote the full context of what he said, before and after any given outrageous lie or narcissistic boast.  No "revamping" needed.

It's his sycophants who constantly try to spin his words to mean something other than what he clearly intended, who are delusional.

Edited by homersapien
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21 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Trump talks in "bits and pieces". 

That's why I always quote the full context of what he said, before and after any given outrageous lie or narcissistic boast.  No "revamping" needed.

It's his sycophants who constantly try to spin his words to mean something other than what he clearly intended, who are delusional.

You post articles that take Trump out of context all the time.  You may quote the full context, (I’ve never seen one) but your media buds are hard at work tearing him apart.  

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31 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You post articles that take Trump out of context all the time.  You may quote the full context, (I’ve never seen one) but your media buds are hard at work tearing him apart.  

Not true. 

I post exact, entire quotes and full videos when necessary to illustrate the context.  If you have an example of my presenting a Trump's statements that you feel misrepresents what he really meant, then present it.

You just refuse to accept his actual words, perhaps because they reveal who he really is instead of the man you want or imagine him to be. 

The media is not responsible for what Trump says.  They just report it.  If it reflects badly on Trump, then that's on him.

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20 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The media is not responsible for what Trump says.  They just report it.  If it reflects badly on Trump, then that's on him.

It's never going to sink in. 

Even when his tweets- the ultimate medium for one expressing one's own thoughts in the exact way that one wishes them to be presented- are re-posted, these folks will claim that the media has misrepresented his comments. 

Now, I do believe that a lot of these people are truly ignorant as to how Twitter works. Even as they scour the internet looking for opportunities to breathlessly and blindly defend Dear Leader, I believe them when they claim to somehow remain clueless about the #1 way in which the person to whom their fan club is dedicated chooses to communicate with his constituents. 

Unfortunately for them, it doesn't give them any more credibility or make them look any more sane or intelligent in these conversations. Quite the opposite, really.

Oh, by the way, when a tweet is re-posted on a website, it is not quoted or even screenshot. It is a direct link to the actual thing that the tweeter chose to share with the world, exactly as they chose to share it. I really don't think some of you understand that. And, of course, many Americans will go on intentionally misunderstanding that so as to maintain plausible deniability. If the conservatives active in this forum are any indication, it's an alarmingly high percentage. 

 

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47 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Not true. 

I post exact, entire quotes and full videos when necessary to illustrate the context.  If you have an example of my presenting a Trump's statements that you feel misrepresents what he really meant, then present it.

You just refuse to accept his actual words, perhaps because they reveal who he really is instead of the man you want or imagine him to be. 

The media is not responsible for what Trump says.  They just report it.  If it reflects badly on Trump, then that's on him.

Trump wants Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday.

One moment during President Donald Trump’s Fox News appearance on Tuesday served as the starkest example yet of how much he does not understand the seriousness of the coronavirus pandemic: He urged Americans to flock to churches on Easter Sunday, just 19 days away.

Trump told Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer he selected Easter as the day he wants businesses to reopen, saying he’d like to see “packed churches all over our country” — the exact type of large gatherings that the CDC, the WHO, and Trump’s top health advisers have all urged suspended to help stop the spread of the virus.

“I would love to have it opened by Easter,” Trump said, speaking about when he sees the country returning to normal life.....

What he said that it would be nice if this would be relaxed by Easter. He did not urge Americans to flock to churches.

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