Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If it were with Jarrett Stidham at QB (circa 2018)? Just a thought that occurred to me recently. I think Burrow was perfection, and I don't think Stidham would have achieved the same numbers, but I think he could have come close. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 20 minutes ago, Barnacle said: If it were with Jarrett Stidham at QB (circa 2018)? Just a thought that occurred to me recently. I think Burrow was perfection, and I don't think Stidham would have achieved the same numbers, but I think he could have come close. I really do. What a great conversation to have. And a nice distraction. I'm tempted to say that I can't imagine Stidham being so damned cool under pressure, but then I remember that I didn't really watch that much LSU ball except against us (he was fine) and then late in the season. At that point, who knows how comfortable and confident Stid might've been feeling after playing in that offense all season. Interesting to see if he wins the job in NE and shows us exactly what he's actually capable of. Maybe he's the guy we saw, or maybe he's the guy we thought we were getting. I lean closer to the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abw0004 10,094 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Barnacle said: If it were with Jarrett Stidham at QB (circa 2018)? Just a thought that occurred to me recently. I think Burrow was perfection, and I don't think Stidham would have achieved the same numbers, but I think he could have come close. I really do. My only question would be with the pressure in his face how would be perform. Burrow didn't flinch when faced with pressure. Flip it again and ask how Stidham would have done in LSU's offense vs. our defense in the Auburn-LSU game. We probably would have won. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copper4eva 106 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Barnacle said: If it were with Jarrett Stidham at QB (circa 2018)? Just a thought that occurred to me recently. I think Burrow was perfection, and I don't think Stidham would have achieved the same numbers, but I think he could have come close. I really do. He'd do good but it wouldn't be close imo. Remember that huge hit we put on Burrow against LSU? And he just got right back up and then played better. That hit happens to Stidham and he plays scared for the rest of the game. I like Stidham, but I won't pretend like he ever took big hits well. Or basically anything kind of defensive pass rush. Stidham just couldn't handle pressure from defenses. Both in 17 and 18. People forget how bad Clemson exposed Stidham's shortcomings in 17. His pocket awareness is horrible. Bama tried to take advantage of it by blitzing, but Auburn ran crossing routes all day to counter that. Also Bama did not have an elite pass rush that particular year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Joe Burrow just always seem to have those intangibles in the pocket even when he was batting 50 percent in 2018 from the completion rate. He maneuvers well in the pocket and he is not afraid to take the big hit. These are things that paid dividends to his extended growth going into 2019. Look at all the plays he made maneuvering in the pocket or on the run. I am talking perfect passes placed where only his playmakers could do something with. I just didn’t see any of that in Stidham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 I think Stidham would have adjusted to their system much better than he did to ours. Burrow was also well protected most of the season. Comfort in the system and confidence in your line make a big difference in the pocket. I'm not saying he would have put huge numbers to a certainty, but I think we would have seen a different Stidham than the one we saw at Auburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 42 minutes ago, Barnacle said: I think Stidham would have adjusted to their system much better than he did to ours. Burrow was also well protected most of the season. Comfort in the system and confidence in your line make a big difference in the pocket. I'm not saying he would have put huge numbers to a certainty, but I think we would have seen a different Stidham than the one we saw at Auburn. I don’t know how true it is to say he was well protected (I could be wrong). He was definitely protected more than what we’ve seen, but when I look at his film, I see a lot of maneuvering in the pocket to give him one or more seconds. He was a wizard in the pocket and I think that value of him is very underrated . I saw it very much so In the Clemson game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, DAG said: I don’t know how true it is to say he was well protected (I could be wrong). He was definitely protected more than what we’ve seen, but when I look at his film, I see a lot of maneuvering in the pocket to give him one or more seconds. He was a wizard in the pocket and I think that value of him is very underrated . I saw it very much so In the Clemson game. Yeah, even with better protection, I agree Stidham never showed anything like the ability Burrow did as far as pocket presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Barnacle said: Yeah, even with better protection, I agree Stidham never showed anything like the ability Burrow did as far as pocket presence. I will defer to you with your knowledge because I know you played the position. I did not. What I will say is JS definitely would've looked better with Brady at OC and with those WR weapons. I also think JS throws one of the prettiest balls you will ever see when he has time. The way the offense was coordinated at AU did JS no favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dual-Threat Rigby 8,563 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I think any good pure pocket passer would've accomplished similar numbers under Brady's system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 59 minutes ago, DAG said: I will defer to you with your knowledge because I know you played the position. I did not. What I will say is JS definitely would've looked better with Brady at OC and with those WR weapons. I also think JS throws one of the prettiest balls you will ever see when he has time. The way the offense was coordinated at AU did JS no favors. Pure speculation on my part, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 12 hours ago, Barnacle said: I think Stidham would have adjusted to their system much better than he did to ours. Burrow was also well protected most of the season. Comfort in the system and confidence in your line make a big difference in the pocket. I'm not saying he would have put huge numbers to a certainty, but I think we would have seen a different Stidham than the one we saw at Auburn. This is my thinking. I was guilty of questioning Stidham's guts, pocket presence, etc, but the further you zoom out on his time here, the more you realize that it wasn't just him, and it wasn't just the terrible OLs he played behind, and it wasn't just WR talent, and it wasn't just completely inept passing schemes, and it wasn't total confusion on the sidelines. It was all of those things. I think it's hard to overstate just how unfriendly Gus has been to passers for most of his tenure here and that kind of thing will destroy any QB. Also, whatever Stidham's tendencies were, we don't know how many of them were coached. Gus very well might have been telling Stid to hit the eject button at the first sign of trouble. And whispers have grown louder that Chip Lindsey was, indeed, an inferior QB coach. Or at least not the right one for us when he was here. And yeah, Joe Burrow had moments where he faced pressure or took a big hit or whatever and responded better than Stidham usually did. But they were moments. They weren't the norm like it was for Stidham. Which is what you basically said, I think. Last thing, and a few of us have talked about it before, but it's fascinating to go back and watch Stidham's first preseason game with the Patriots. First series, you see 2018 Stidham. By the third or fourth series, you see a much more mobile Tom Brady out there. Yes, he had the pick six later in the season, but fortunately most of the football world doesn't completely write a guy off after one bad interception like Auburn fans started doing when Sean White threw one on his very first series as a college football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Oh, one other thing: Burrow, 2018: 219/379, 57.8% completions, 2,894 yds, 7.6 yds per completion, 16 TDs to 5 picks, 133.2 QBR Stidham, 2018: 224/369, 60.7% completions, 2,794 yds, 7.6 yds per completion, 18 TDs to 5 picks, 137.7 QBR Stidham was statistically a better QB than Burrow was in 2018. So it's very logical to suggest that he could've been as good as Burrow in that offense in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRocket 410 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 20 hours ago, Barnacle said: I think Burrow was perfection, and I don't think Stidham would have achieved the same numbers, but I think he could have come close. I really do. Burrow had multiple big bodied receivers that could get position on the defender and catch the ball when it arrived. He was also deadly accurate. I think that accuracy was partly due to believing that his receivers were going to get position and make the catch. To me those receivers were the key to LSU's offense. So yes, I think Stidham could have been very successful in that offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 This debate will be ended one way or another in the next couple of years as both players are in two hugely different positions. I believe JB will go to the bengals and JS is in the best organization possible. The trajectory will tell a lot for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, DAG said: This debate will be ended one way or another in the next couple of years as both players are in two hugely different positions. I believe JB will go to the bengals and JS is in the best organization possible. The trajectory will tell a lot for sure. Excellent point. It's like Stidham really does play for 2019 LSU and Burrow will play for 2018 Auburn, haha. NE does need some help at WR, but with way more mobility from Stidham if he wins the job, their offense might mutate once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 49 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Excellent point. It's like Stidham really does play for 2019 LSU and Burrow will play for 2018 Auburn, haha. NE does need some help at WR, but with way more mobility from Stidham if he wins the job, their offense might mutate once again. A lot of people gave JS crap about that pick but to me it speaks volume that the patriots didn’t seem to budge with Tom willing to test the water. Not to mention, the players have really rallied around their future without Tom Brady. Hoyer is a stop gap before anyone brings him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 8 hours ago, DAG said: This debate will be ended one way or another in the next couple of years as both players are in two hugely different positions. I believe JB will go to the bengals and JS is in the best organization possible. The trajectory will tell a lot for sure. It will help...I'm very curious to watch both guys play. That said, if Stidham doesn't succeed in the NFL, it's hard to quantify what that says about him as a college QB, if anything at all. On the other hand, if he succeeds, it probably says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,847 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Barnacle said: It will help...I'm very curious to watch both guys play. That said, if Stidham doesn't succeed in the NFL, it's hard to quantify what that says about him as a college QB, if anything at all. It will say more about his ability at the QB position, For both of these guys. The idea that he doesn’t succeed in an organization like New England would speak quite a bit of value IMO. Like wise, if Joe struggles mightily, it could be presumed that he had Uber talent around him at LSU which helped tremendously in his production. I am of the believe that talent will overcome some instances of depleted team resources. I saw this in Cam with his rookie year. I saw this last year with Kyler as well. It might not show in the W-L column however. It’s hard for me to look at college and judge a QB on that value because their are many who dominate at this level and don’t have an ounce of individual success at the next level, even if it is for one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just now, DAG said: It will say more about his ability at the QB position, For both of these guys. The idea that he doesn’t succeed in an organization like New England would speak quite a bit of value IMO. Like wise, if Joe struggles mightily, it could be presumed that he had Uber talent around him at LSU which helped tremendously in his production. I am of the believe that talent will overcome some instances of depleted team resources. I saw this in Cam with his rookie year. I saw this last year with Kyler as well. It might not show in the W-L column however. It’s hard for me to look at college and judge a QB on that value because their are many who dominate at this level and don’t have an ounce of individual success at the next level, even if it is for one year. If we're framing the discussionaround how good these guys actually are as individual players, I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFriction 1,179 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I do think Burrow was the better college QB, even accounting for talent/support. I think Stidham has a higher ceiling if he can find a way to reach it. The big thing is that Stidham, while seeming like a good person, never seemed like a leader. Research suggests that leadership can be learned with effort. I’m still hopeful that they sign Cam to NE. He’d be a great mentor for Stidham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 hours ago, AUFriction said: The big thing is that Stidham, while seeming like a good person, never seemed like a leader. Research suggests that leadership can be learned with effort. That's a very good point. There's a lot to be discussed about intangibles. No matter how emboldened he was by his teammates, coaches and general environment, Burrow was a damned swagmonster last year. He was Vin Diesel walking away from explosions without looking back cool. On and off the field. Stidham never seemed to be... that. Very chill bro. Probably a nice, calming demeanor in the locker room and in the huddle. But is he cigar cool? Is he Burreaux jersey cool? Is he half Andy Dufresne half Jason Statham cool? Doesn't seem that way. (Might not matter in NE. In fact, might be very valuable. Just shut up and do exactly what Josh and Bill tell you to. Pretty sure that was Brady's MO up until ring #3 or #4.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc4aday 1,887 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I can only hope that Bo will have something close to a Burrow type season for 2020. How close I am not sure, but if he is within distant striking range, then a good season is on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 hours ago, AUFriction said: I do think Burrow was the better college QB, even accounting for talent/support. Yeah this isn't even debatable. 4 hours ago, AUFriction said: I think Stidham has a higher ceiling if he can find a way to reach it. This definitely is. I'm not sure that I agree with it, but it will likely be proven out as DAG said earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,461 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 On 3/25/2020 at 8:22 PM, Dual-Threat Rigby said: I think any good pure pocket passer would've accomplished similar numbers under Brady's system Burrow had arguably the best season ever for a college QB. "Any good pure pocket passer" wouldn't have done what he did. A coach or system can only do so much and having the best year in history is way beyond what a coach or system can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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