Trump just comes out and says it: The GOP is hurt when it’s easier to vote

[homersapien 11,354]

21 minutes ago, countoff said:

What I meant by "I don't think that is true" is your assertion that the Republican party fought that tooth and nail because a higher turnout results in Democrats winning.  They fight against the Democrats making it easy for voter fraud.  And they also fight against a holiday on voting day because we already have too many holidays that adversely affect business.  The polls are typically open early in the morning until late in the evening.  Plus there is absentee voting.  People have plenty of time and methods to vote without declaring a holiday.

How about moving and voting on an existing holiday?   Say Martin Luther King day, or President's say, or Labor day,  or Veteran's day.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

How about moving and voting on an existing holiday?   Say Martin Luther King day, or President's say, or Labor day,  or Veteran's day.

Or just move election day to a Saturday.  It's not that hard.

[Gowebb11 9,309]

46 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's a pathetically weak substitute for the "millions of fraudulent voters" excuse for making voting more difficult.  But no less illogical and irrational.

It’s not difficult. Except for people like you who think we are a nation of completely dependent and helpless people who are incapable of completing such difficult tasks and obtaining an ID or filling out a form or two at their town hall. And the pressure of only having 4 years to prepare to do it. Oh what pain and suffering voting requires in this country. 

[Gowebb11 9,309]

3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Not everyone can make it to a poll on election day.  Many jobs can't let people go for an hour or two to vote.  Some people have kids to tend to with no one to help, so they can't stand in line after work.

 

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Ask a poor farmer or single parent in Alabama's black belt what is required of them to vote, compare it to what is required of you, and then throw your stones if you still think it justifiable. 

My in laws are first generation citizens from a third world nation who are very poor and lack a ton of amenities I have in life. Yet they vote in every election. So I’m very aware of inflexible jobs and I consult with poor farmers on a regular basis. I stand by my premise. If it was 1960 you had an 8 hour window to vote and only one option and location to do so, I would be more amenable to the argument. But it’s 2020 and every voter in this nation has a very long window and lots of options when it comes to voting. Is it more difficult for some, yes. If people are committed like my in-laws do they find a way, yes. 

[countoff 331]

Look... I was just giving my opinion.  I really don't have time to scour for articles in a long winded political discussion.  I'm trying to take advantage of this corona virus time off from work to complete my home addition.  And we want to complete the construction before I bring home my brand new Springer Spaniel from the breeder!  Getting a new puppy is more important to me than winning a political argument.

So I should probably take a couple of weeks off from the Auburn boards until the work is complete.  Besides....it's not like anything I say or post here is going to turn a raging liberal into a conservative.  It's  simply not how you're wired. 

But here is an article I quickly looked up to somewhat support my opinion.  https://cis.org/Huennekens/Aliens-and-Voter-Fraud  Perhaps some others on this board could help me out with some articles.

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

42 minutes ago, countoff said:

Look... I was just giving my opinion.  I really don't have time to scour for articles in a long winded political discussion.  I'm trying to take advantage of this corona virus time off from work to complete my home addition.  And we want to complete the construction before I bring home my brand new Springer Spaniel from the breeder!  Getting a new puppy is more important to me than winning a political argument.

So I should probably take a couple of weeks off from the Auburn boards until the work is complete.  Besides....it's not like anything I say or post here is going to turn a raging liberal into a conservative.  It's  simply not how you're wired. 

But here is an article I quickly looked up to somewhat support my opinion.  https://cis.org/Huennekens/Aliens-and-Voter-Fraud  Perhaps some others on this board could help me out with some articles.

 

Just so you're aware, the group that you linked to is a think tank who's primary purpose is to disseminate information that is anti immigration.  May want to research who you're linking to before posting it.

And I promise I'm not trying to be a douche here, but check out the rules for this side of the political forum.  Saying "I was just giving my opinion" isn't considered enough in the serious forum.  We try to use articles from as many reputable sources as we can to have what is hopefully a better discussion than what you would have in the smack forum.

You seem like a nice person.  But, respectfully, if you aren't willing to read and consider evidence posted against your argument and engage in that discussion, then I think this may be the wrong place for you. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

There it is. The "I"ve got better things to do" card. Always humorous. Asking for backup was a nice double-down. Hey, look, a puppy. 

 

 

[bigbird 60,368]

13 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

There it is. The "I"ve got better things to do" card. Always humorous. Asking for backup was a nice double-down. Hey, look, a puppy. 

 

 

It's almost like asking for quotes or proof and being completely ignored. Each group does it routinely. Neither have a monopoly on deflection and evasion.

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It's almost like asking for quotes or proof and being completely ignored. Each group does it routinely. Neither have a monopoly on deflection and evasion.

A monopoly, no. 4 different techniques ("just my opinion, man" being the 4th that Brad mentioned) in one post, though, is unusual. 

Not sure if the first sentence is a specific reference. 

[Mikey 16,550]

16 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

And the voter fraud thing is really a bad excuse.  The rate of voter fraud in this country is extremely minimal.  In 2016, there were four cases.....in the country.

How is this number determined? Obviously, those that get away with it do not get counted. I recall a voter fraud scandal with the Acorn group, seems like in Ohio, instructing people on how to vote multiple times. Also mention of some county in Ohio that had 100% votes for the Democrat candidate. Were these things completely made up by the media or were these instances of voter fraud that did not get discovered in time to be counted?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

54 minutes ago, Mikey said:

How is this number determined? Obviously, those that get away with it do not get counted. I recall a voter fraud scandal with the Acorn group, seems like in Ohio, instructing people on how to vote multiple times. Also mention of some county in Ohio that had 100% votes for the Democrat candidate. Were these things completely made up by the media or were these instances of voter fraud that did not get discovered in time to be counted?

Care to link to that scandal?

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

 

My in laws are first generation citizens from a third world nation who are very poor and lack a ton of amenities I have in life. Yet they vote in every election. So I’m very aware of inflexible jobs and I consult with poor farmers on a regular basis. I stand by my premise. If it was 1960 you had an 8 hour window to vote and only one option and location to do so, I would be more amenable to the argument. But it’s 2020 and every voter in this nation has a very long window and lots of options when it comes to voting. Is it more difficult for some, yes. If people are committed like my in-laws do they find a way, yes. 

You're right. A farmer- who probably has access to transportation and is self-employed, therefore not risking termination in order to take time off from work- is a bad example of a poor rural Alabamian when it comes to the challenges of obtaining a license or ID and then voting. 

I'd be curious about what your in-laws do for a living, if they have to travel long distances to complete any of the steps necessary to vote, and if they have access to the transportation necessary for that. 

[Gowebb11 9,309]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You're right. A farmer- who probably has access to transportation and is self-employed, therefore not risking termination in order to take time off from work- is a bad example of a poor rural Alabamian when it comes to the challenges of obtaining a license or ID and then voting. 

I'd be curious about what your in-laws do for a living, if they have to travel long distances to complete any of the steps necessary to vote, and if they have access to the transportation necessary for that. 

My father in law was a butcher at a small factory with very long work hours and my mother in law could not drive. Neither were educated beyond the 8th grade in Mexico and they struggled with the language. Every case is different. I don’t argue that it is the same or easy for everyone. But I encourage you to take a look at vote.org. Anyone can register to vote on there by providing their name and address. They can also receive an absentee ballot from there with a click of a button. Time investment: 2 minutes. They never have to leave their home. There is a list of each state’s ID requirements. And yes some states require Voter ID. But almost all of them provide multiple alternatives like a copy of a utility bill, drivers license, social security card, etc... In addition for voters who are too indigent to obtain an ID there is a form available to declare that, and the ID requirement is waived. Now, I know you’re thinking that everyone doesn’t have internet or a cell phone. True. But someone at the town hall, Post office, library, church, mayors office, or your neighbor, son, daughter, cousin, uncle, aunt, etc....does have one and will be happy to help. 

The point I speak too is not just about voting. I fear we are losing the spirit of ‘ can do’ and initiative. I know people like my parents who got married at 18 with no money, walked to work, raised a large family, bought a home, voted, etc...They figured it out. I know others who navigated a complex immigration system to get from their country to America without having money, resources, or education. They figured things out. There are and always will be those who fall through the cracks when it comes to voting. And we should work to minimize that number. For those truly committed to voting, I am confident there is a way and resources to make it happen. 

I will let you have the last word. I appreciate the fact that we have been able to exchange respectful perspectives and ideas on this important topic. I can appreciate your passion on this issue. Our differences aside, may we all unite to pray for safety and healing in these difficult days. War Eagle!

[countoff 331]

21 hours ago, homersapien said:

How about moving and voting on an existing holiday?   Say Martin Luther King day, or President's say, or Labor day,  or Veteran's day.

 

21 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Or just move election day to a Saturday.  It's not that hard.

My knee jerk was to agree with both of you.  But the people you are targeting to vote typically work on weekends and holidays.

[homersapien 11,354]

21 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

It’s not difficult. Except for people like you who think we are a nation of completely dependent and helpless people who are incapable of completing such difficult tasks and obtaining an ID or filling out a form or two at their town hall. And the pressure of only having 4 years to prepare to do it. Oh what pain and suffering voting requires in this country. 

Making it easier to vote does not mean serving only "completely dependent and helpless people " nor does it imply you are completely dependent and helpless if you would benefit from such efforts. We would all benefit personally - even Republicans.

But the subject is the effort by one party to benefit by suppressing the vote - or at least by refusing to make it easier - while using bogus, misleading, or moralistic reasons to defend it.  Implying that one perhaps doesn't really deserve the vote if they find it personally difficult to work around the built-in difficulties is an example of the latter.

It's just the right thing to do.

[countoff 331]

6 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Just so you're aware, the group that you linked to is a think tank who's primary purpose is to disseminate information that is anti immigration.  May want to research who you're linking to before posting it.

And I promise I'm not trying to be a douche here, but check out the rules for this side of the political forum.  Saying "I was just giving my opinion" isn't considered enough in the serious forum.  We try to use articles from as many reputable sources as we can to have what is hopefully a better discussion than what you would have in the smack forum.

You seem like a nice person.  But, respectfully, if you aren't willing to read and consider evidence posted against your argument and engage in that discussion, then I think this may be the wrong place for you. 

I think you may be right.  If you remember, I only started participating in this forum a couple of weeks ago.

I have a friend down the street that is a liberal.  We get together quite often and argue and laugh and try to understand the other person's point of view.  I thought this forum would be the same.  I had no idea that the aufamily "political speaking" forum was actually a secret cover for the Brookings Institute. 

6 hours ago, McLoofus said:

There it is. The "I"ve got better things to do" card. Always humorous. Asking for backup was a nice double-down. Hey, look, a puppy. 

 

 

"I've got better things to do" is now a card?  I have other interests and other obligations that keep me busy.  I don't have the luxury or desire to sit in front of a computer all day. And yes... I am excited about my new dog. 

Dude! you seriously have a cob up your butt.  Maybe you could use a puppy.

5 hours ago, bigbird said:

It's almost like asking for quotes or proof and being completely ignored. Each group does it routinely. Neither have a monopoly on deflection and evasion.

Bird.  The only reason I tried out this forum was because  I saw you were sprinkled throughout.  I generally like your posts on the football forum and thought I would give this one a try.  This whole thing started when I simply tried to clarify to Brad that there's a difference between conservatives trying to block voters as opposed to conservatives trying to make sure that votes are from legitimate citizens voting from their legitimate residence.   I don't think you need a long list of article references to make that distinction.

[homersapien 11,354]

1 minute ago, countoff said:

I think you may be right.  If you remember, I only started participating in this forum a couple of weeks ago.

I have a friend down the street that is a liberal.  We get together quite often and argue and laugh and try to understand the other person's point of view.  I thought this forum would be the same.  I had no idea that the aufamily "political speaking" forum was actually a secret cover for the Brookings Institute. 

"I've got better things to do" is now a card?  I have other interests and other obligations that keep me busy.  I don't have the luxury or desire to sit in front of a computer all day. And yes... I am excited about my new dog. 

Dude! you seriously have a cob up your butt.  Maybe you could use a puppy.

Bird.  The only reason I tried out this forum was because  I saw you were sprinkled throughout.  I generally like your posts on the football forum and thought I would give this one a try.  This whole thing started when I simply tried to clarify to Brad that there's a difference between conservatives trying to block voters as opposed to conservatives trying to make sure that votes are from legitimate citizens voting from their legitimate residence.   I don't think you need a long list of article references to make that distinction.

You do when there is a large body of references to Republicans revealing their true intents (see OP).

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

46 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

My father in law was a butcher at a small factory with very long work hours and my mother in law could not drive. Neither were educated beyond the 8th grade in Mexico and they struggled with the language. Every case is different. I don’t argue that it is the same or easy for everyone. But I encourage you to take a look at vote.org. Anyone can register to vote on there by providing their name and address. They can also receive an absentee ballot from there with a click of a button. Time investment: 2 minutes. They never have to leave their home. There is a list of each state’s ID requirements. And yes some states require Voter ID. But almost all of them provide multiple alternatives like a copy of a utility bill, drivers license, social security card, etc... In addition for voters who are too indigent to obtain an ID there is a form available to declare that, and the ID requirement is waived. Now, I know you’re thinking that everyone doesn’t have internet or a cell phone. True. But someone at the town hall, Post office, library, church, mayors office, or your neighbor, son, daughter, cousin, uncle, aunt, etc....does have one and will be happy to help. 

The point I speak too is not just about voting. I fear we are losing the spirit of ‘ can do’ and initiative. I know people like my parents who got married at 18 with no money, walked to work, raised a large family, bought a home, voted, etc...They figured it out. I know others who navigated a complex immigration system to get from their country to America without having money, resources, or education. They figured things out. There are and always will be those who fall through the cracks when it comes to voting. And we should work to minimize that number. For those truly committed to voting, I am confident there is a way and resources to make it happen. 

I will let you have the last word. I appreciate the fact that we have been able to exchange respectful perspectives and ideas on this important topic. I can appreciate your passion on this issue. Our differences aside, may we all unite to pray for safety and healing in these difficult days. War Eagle!

I was inclined to offer you a tip of the hat and a mea culpa even before the last paragraph, as you are better informed on this than I am. There is still a conversation to be had about making it more difficult to vote, but that is indeed different than making it impossible to vote. 

Understood about the spirit of 'can do' initiative, and there is likewise probably something to that; however, I believe that there are structural differences between generations both in society and the economy that complicate the conversation. Put simply, I think boomers and their kids had a much rosier outlook on the ROI of hard work, and for good reason. Again, I could be wrong.

It's not unusual that my sparring partner shows a little more grace than me. You've done that and then some. Thank you and, yes, let's please all stay safe and healthy. All of us. 

[Gowebb11 9,309]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It's just the right thing to do

We could do better and should do our best to make voting as easy and efficient as possible. You and I have different approaches to the issue but I appreciate your perspective. This discussion has led me to do more research on the topic.  War Eagle!

[autigeremt 6,569]

Democrats want non-citizens to be able to vote.....so yes. The easier the better. 

Republicans just buy the votes but the numbers would support Democrats winning if they could just allow anyone to vote. 

 

Love this two party fracture. 

[Grumps 3,693]

Would more mail in voting make voter fraud more likely or less likely? 

I don't have a link to this question to mods feel free to delete it if I am violating the forum rules!😀

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

Would more mail in voting make voter fraud more likely or less likely? 

I don't have a link to this question to mods feel free to delete it if I am violating the forum rules!😀

Theoretically less if you believe voter fraud is a real thing.  You would have to register to vote and I assume show proof of voter eligibility before getting a ballot mailed to you.

[Mikey 16,550]

23 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Care to link to that scandal?

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/acorn-accusations/  "What a McCain-Palin Web ad calls "voter fraud" is actually voter registration fraud. Several ACORN canvassers have been found guilty of faking registration forms and others are being investigated. "

ttps://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124182750646102435 "More Acorn Voter Fraud Comes to Light"

That's just the first two of untold numbers of articles about the Democrat sponsored ACORN voter registration scandals. I'm surprised that you didn't know about this.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Texas problem? Looks like it's a Republican problem.

Quote

All 6.9 million active voters in Georgia are being mailed absentee ballot request forms this week by the secretary of state’s office. Voters who return the absentee ballot request forms will be able to participate in the primary without having to come into contact with other people on election day or during early voting.

“This will be extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia,” Ralston, a Republican from Blue Ridge, said during an interview with FetchYourNews, a North Georgia news site. “Every registered voter is going to get one of these. … This will certainly drive up turnout.”

Republicans say high voter turnout favors Democrats, although that is not always the case. Ralston doesn’t want the mail-in primary to set a precedent for future elections in which heavier use of mail-in ballots drives turnout higher in the general election, when the parties compete against each other.

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/georgia-may-primary-still-for-now-amid-pressure-for-delay/K1wboFdcY1z7xYt7pa11MO/

[homersapien 11,354]

17 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Democrats want non-citizens to be able to vote.....so yes. The easier the better. 

Republicans just buy the votes but the numbers would support Democrats winning if they could just allow anyone to vote. 

 

Love this two party fracture. 

Link please?