Jump to content

Trump’s latest depraved display could lead to more deaths


homersapien

Recommended Posts

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 3:44 PM, IronMan70 said:

These experts with their modeling have been universally wrong as have been the opinions written about their flawed models. So the "experts" change their model, worthless opinions are written about the new model and the process starts all over again. These opinion pieces, mostly negative, are a waste of time. 

 

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 11:07 AM, homersapien said:

Hey Ironhead, how about providing some references that support this allegation? 

Be sure to include some technical or academic ones - maybe from the CDC,  John Hopkins or the Mayo Clinic?  

Alternatively, just come out and admit you are relying on Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham for your understanding.

I stopped by to briefly pass along some info but I see you've been a busy little bee this weekend. What a target rich environment, lol. I thought I would just address the beginning of your weekend rant so as not to fill up the board, then make a couple general comments about the rest of it. As far as your post above, it should be obvious that when a model is exposed as seriously flawed, opinions during that same time period in support of that model are also rendered invalid by definition. The only link I have offered in this entire exercise is from the CDC. I have never mentioned Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham, Fox or MAGA. You did.

In the rest of your rantings you follow the pattern of many of your ilk. Your opinion is not accepted by others so that forces you to try to obsessively invalidate. You first begin by calling people names, a tactic not appropriate for this board by the way, in an attempt to ridicule. But that only weakens your position. Failing in that, you try to use false characterizations. That doesn't work either. Finally you go to the straw man argument and interject entities never mentioned. That is your go to, it makes you comfortable, that is your personal windmill to fight. 

Now on to the info I came here to briefly mention. Did you see where your man Fauci, after taking immense heat from all sides on the modeling he used to pressure for the shutdown, is now backing away ? At the Friday presser he said..."Let me be clear, I'm not a big fan of modeling." Oops, how interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply
On 4/9/2020 at 3:44 PM, IronMan70 said:

These experts with their modeling have been universally wrong as have been the opinions written about their flawed models. So the "experts" change their model, worthless opinions are written about the new model and the process starts all over again. These opinion pieces, mostly negative, are a waste of time. 

 

On 4/9/2020 at 4:04 PM, IronMan70 said:

If they are wrong on every projection what good are they. Or to put it another way, do they have no accountability ? Do they just get to keep pumping out BS with no consequences ? We shut this country down based on their so called models which are now off by a factor of 33. Even now, at this late date, they are changing them because they have been so wrong. They hold up their pontifications as expertise when in reality it is just guessing. Guessing that has caused a lot of damage in our response. 

 

This is the latest MAGA propaganda line, emanating from the likes of Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson.  It's nothing more than an effort to shift blame for the economic disaster that "distancing" caused, even as it's been a mostly successful strategy.

It's insultingly wrong-headed and stupid.  Anyone who buys into this narrative is a scientifically ignorant fool.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, homersapien said:

 

 

This is the latest MAGA propaganda line, emanating from the likes of Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson.  It's nothing more than an effort to shift blame for the economic disaster that "distancing" caused, even as it's been mostly successful strategy.

It's insultingly wrong-headed and stupid.  Anyone who buys into this narrative is a scientifically ignorant fool.

 

Which proves my point yet again, lol. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

Which proves my point yet again, lol. 

Truth hurts, huh? 

You don't understand the science or even the purpose of models as evidenced by your initial comments posted above. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

Which proves my point yet again, lol. 

Are Trump and his allies setting up Dr. Fauci as the pandemic scapegoat?

Tucker Carlson bashes Fauci and Trump silences him at press briefing — have they found an "elite" scapegoat?

Amanda Marcotte  April 6, 2020 5:00PM (UTC)

This has gotten buried under the pile of horrific news about both the coronavirus pandemic and Donald Trump's multiple failures to handle the crisis, but there was a moment during Trump's daily propaganda dump on Sunday that was even more disturbing than usual. It came while Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was speaking, which usually means a respite from Trump's firehose of misinformation and self-aggrandizement and an opportunity to get real information from an actual expert who is not a sociopath. 

A reporter started to ask Fauci about the use of hydroxychloroquine, the now-legendary anti-malarial drug, to treat COVID-19. Fauci was almost certainly about to say, as he does every time he's out of reach of Trump, that there's no real evidence that the drug works, much less that it's the "game-changer" that Trump desperately wants it to be. 

But Fauci wasn't able to answer the question, because Trump stopped him. "You don't have to ask the question," the president said, stepping in front of the podium, waving his hand in the air and using his girth as a physical barricade between Fauci and the reporter. 

Earlier in the press conference, Trump had offered yet another glowing recommendation of hydroxychloroquine, which has no substantive evidence to recommend it. He literally cited "rumor" as a reason to give it a spin and said, "What do you have to lose?"

People actually have a lot to lose, as the drug has been known to damage the nervous system, cause psychological trauma and lead to heart attacks. 

During this exchange, there was a hint of one reason Trump is championing this drug as a of miracle cure, despite the lack of evidence: He's starting to workshop the excuses he will use and the scapegoats he will sacrifice in order to escape the blame — which he richly deserves — for how badly this crisis spun out of control. And the person most in danger of becoming the primary scapegoat for Trump and his minions is Fauci himself. 

"If it does work, it would be a shame we did not do it early," Trump said about hydroxychloroquine during the press conference Sunday.

At that point, it became clear to me what Trump hopes to get out of this endless hype about an unproven and dangerous drug: A QAnon-style conspiracy theory he can roll out, after the worst of the crisis has passed, about his heroic efforts to save everyone with a miracle drug, which were thwarted by shady "deep state" forces who denied the public this lifesaving drug as part of a plot to make him look bad.

Unfortunately for Fauci, he's the most obvious candidate to become the villain in this conspiracy theory, in much the same way former FBI director James Comey and special counsel Robert Mueller were framed as part of a sinister anti-Trump conspiracy during the investigation of Russian interference with the 2016 presidential election. 

Tucker Carlson of Fox News has been leading the pack in the effort to cast Fauci as the villain in the right-wing conspiracy theories that will pour from the spigots as soon as the spread of the coronavirus and the associated death rate start to ebb. 

Dr. Fauci is prescribing "national suicide," Carlson claimed on his show last week, declaring that the economic collapse caused by social distancing protocols is "a far bigger disaster than the virus itself, by any measure" and declaring that our "response to coronavirus could turn this into a far poorer nation."

There are plenty of people who must share the blame for this national disaster. Trump, for one, is to blame because he twiddled his thumbs and denied the virus was serious until it had exploded across the country. If he'd actually taken this seriously and contained the disease, it's likely none of this would be necessary. Carlson, of course, isn't blaming Republicans, who seem determined to stop the kind of New Deal-level federal investment in our workers that is needed not just to keep people from falling into dire poverty, but to get the economy back on the road to recovery. 

But instead Carlson is blaming Fauci, saying that the doctor "has bulletproof job security," with the clear implication that he doesn't care about people who are losing their jobs. 

To make matters worse, there are reports that Fauci is conflicting with White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, a major booster of hydroxychloroquine. This isn't surprising, since Trump's right-wing economics advisers are eager to grasp at any thin straw to suggest that the economy can be "reopened" without causing mass loss of life from COVID-19. It just happens that this fantasy is not scientifically feasible. 

It's easy to see where all this is going. If the social distancing works to contain the virus, conservative pundits will point to the lower-than-feared death toll as evidence that the virus was never that serious — but not, of course, that the severe restrictions on daily life actually worked. They'll claim that quarantine measures were never necessary, and suggest that hydroxychloroquine was a real solution that was available the whole time but got left on the table thanks of the "deep state" conspiracy against Trump. (Rather than because there's no evidence this often-dangerous drug is actually a cure for COVID-19.) And Fauci will be held up as the straw-man villain in this conspiracy because he supported social distancing and was skeptical of Dr. Trump's miracle drug.

Will this conspiracy theory work? In the sense of shoring up Trump's support with his loyal base, there's no doubt about it. There's been a run on hydroxychloroquine from Trump supporters, who trust their president's ill-founded rumor-mongering over any and all medical evidence. These are folks who feel justified in voting for a racist reality TV star and will cling to whatever nonsense Trump and Fox News dish up as a rationalization. 

It's unclear, however, how much traction this nonsense will have outside of that Trumpian bubble. There is definitely room for concern, since conspiracy theories about "secret" cures that regular doctors are holding back for mysterious reasons never seem to go out of style. But as Rutgers professor David Greenberg argued in Politico this weekend, "Politicians may be able in the short term to cover up their failed programs or weak leadership with clever messaging and images," but in the end, with the economy down the toilet, the public is more likely to blame Trump than whatever scapegoat he and his propaganda team at Fox News serve up. 

Still, this "deep state" theory seems close to inevitable, and the attacks on Fauci have already started. Trump's opponents need to anticipate the twists and turns ahead and have a strategy to counter them. In an election that's already being compromised by the pandemic itself, the prospect of widespread voter suppression and Trump's apparently immovable popularity with his base, every weird Trumpian dirty trick could turn the tide. 

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/06/are-trump-and-his-allies-setting-up-dr-fauci-as-the-pandemic-scapegoat/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

 

 

This is the latest MAGA propaganda line, emanating from the likes of Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson.  It's nothing more than an effort to shift blame for the economic disaster that "distancing" caused, even as it's been a mostly successful strategy.

It's insultingly wrong-headed and stupid.  Anyone who buys into this narrative is a scientifically ignorant fool.

 

Is that the Reagan MAGA, the Bill Clinton MAGA or current day?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

The media is a dishonest group.

It is becoming more and more obvious the response was directly in line with medical experts. Who do you believe? Medical experts or news reporters caught in lies and spreading misinformation intentionally? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Truth hurts, huh? 

You don't understand the science or even the purpose of models as evidenced by your initial comments posted above. 

Your rants are truth, lol ? Hardly. I completely understand the science on this because I researched the original model. You did not. Why not ? If you had you would have found out where it was done, the person that did it, whether or not he/she was forced to withdraw previous models from the CDC, as well as what input he actually used. Do you know any of that information ? No and your posts demonstrate that, as well as a total lack or grasp of the facts and real truth in this case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IronMan70 said:

Your rants are truth, lol ? Hardly. I completely understand the science on this because I researched the original model. You did not. Why not ? If you had you would have found out where it was done, the person that did it, whether or not he/she was forced to withdraw previous models from the CDC, as well as and what input he actually used. Do you know any of that information ? No and your posts demonstrate that, as well as a total lack or grasp of the facts and real truth in this case.

So please present the "original model" of which you speak and tell us exactly why it was "wrong".

I still submit you don't understand the science (derivation) of modeling, why they exist nor the practical purpose they serve.

This is your chance to prove me wrong. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

So please present the "original model" of which you speak and tell us exactly why it was "wrong".

I still submit you don't understand the science (derivation) of modeling, why they exist nor the practical purpose they serve.

This is your chance to prove me wrong. 

 

That's it ? You mean wrong again. Sorry, you'll have to go do your own research, like I did before my first post on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

That's it ? You mean wrong again. Sorry, you'll have to go do your own research, like I did before my first post on this.

Yeah, that's what I figured. :-\

If you've "done the research" and are making claims based on it, why not provide the link?

I have no idea what you are referring to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

The media is a dishonest group.

And sadly some of our forum members as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, that's what I figured. :-\

If you've "done the research" and are making claims based on it, why not provide the link?

I have no idea what you are referring to.

But you should. That's pretty sad right there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

But you should. That's pretty sad right there.

So here's your chance to prove you really understand this stuff and I don't.

Show us what you are talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very articulate and illuminating piece on much of what has been discussed in this thread, to include the issues that have already arisen due to our curve of debatable flatness.

Quote

But as testing capacity has grown, so has the pandemic. As my colleagues Robinson Meyer and Alexis Madrigal have reported, private labs have taken on more orders than they can fulfill, and are experiencing huge backlogs. Demand for tests has ballooned, fueled by a rise in actual infections and the fact that Donald Trump keeps wrongly assuring the public that testing is no longer a problem. “The net gain just hasn’t been there,” said Kelly Wroblewski of the Association of Public Health Laboratories.

Compounding these issues, testing companies all rely on the same chemical ingredients, which were already running low and are becoming even scarcer as the pandemic spreads. “Trying to get these materials is not about dollars and cents; it’s about physics,” Osterholm said. “You can’t just buy these things. It takes time to make them.” To be clear, there is wide consensus that testing is crucial for working out where the virus is and adequately preparing for it. In an ideal reality, testing should be done extensively. But in this reality, Osterholm noted, it might be several months before manufacturers can meet global demand. For the summer, the U.S. might have to abandon the dream that “everyone who gets sick is going to get a test and we’ll be able to count every case with a lab diagnosis,” Wroblewski said. “That might not be realistic.”

Crucial medical drugs are also running out. According to a University of Minnesota analysis, about 40 percent of the 156 drugs that are essential parts of critical care are becoming limited. Many of these depend on supply chains that involve China (where the pandemic began), Italy (the hardest-hit region in Europe), or India (which halted several exports). These chains have been discharging their contents like a sputtering garden hose that has now begun to run dry. “The medium term is going to be particularly perilous,” said Nada Sanders, a professor of supply-chain management at Northeastern University. “Global demand is so high, and supply is so far behind, that it’s very hard to envision enough of a ramp-up.”

Albuterol, the drug used in asthma inhalers, is scarce. Antibiotics, which control the secondary bacterial infections that afflict COVID-19 patients, are being depleted. Basic painkillers and sedatives, which are needed to keep patients on ventilators, are being exhausted. Hydroxychloroquine, the drug that Trump has repeatedly touted as a COVID-19 treatment despite a lack of good evidence, is running out, to the detriment of people with lupus and arthritis who depend on it. “It’s like everything we give to patients, we’re in short supply of,” said Esther Choo, an emergency physician at Oregon Health and Science University. “We’re now scrambling to find the backup medications, and we’ll run out of those too.”

Meanwhile, hospitals are still struggling. There aren’t enough masks and gowns to adequately protect staff, ventilators to deliver oxygen to patients who can’t breathe, or respiratory technicians and nurses to operate those ventilators. Overwhelmed and underprotected, doctors and nurses are falling sick. In Michigan, more than 700 employees at one hospital have tested positive for the coronavirus; at another, 1,500 are out of work with consistent symptoms. Hospitals are now bringing back retired physicians, graduating medical students early, and re-tasking orthopedists and dermatologists to emergency rooms to help with the coronavirus surge.

Even if cases abate in the summer, exhausted health-care workers will have to catch up on elective surgeries that were postponed because of the pandemic (and that are important to a hospital’s financial survival), while also treating people who delayed getting help for heart problems, cancers, and other emergencies. “Patients are putting off health concerns that really need to be seen, and they’re coming in sick,” Choo said. If the pandemic rebounds in the fall, health-care workers may have to greet it without having had a summertime respite. Hospital disaster plans “are all structured around a single discrete event that is over pretty quickly,” Choo said. “We don’t expect our diseases to be stuttering.”

These problems—the continuing testing debacle, the drying supply chains, the relentless pressure on hospitals—should temper any impatience about reopening the country. There won’t be an obvious moment when everything is under control and regular life can safely resume. Even after case counts and death rates fall, the pandemic’s challenges will continue, and will not automatically subside on their own. After all, despite ample warning, the U.S. failed to anticipate what would happen when the coronavirus knocked on its door. It cannot afford to make that mistake again. Before the spring is over, it needs a plan for the summer and fall.

Suffice it to say, I find these perceptions of an overreaction puzzling. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...