AU In The 2020 NFL Draft

[DAG 33,964]

4 hours ago, alexava said:

With all the other players I’ve seen getting chances, he should get one. He ( and most of them) is not likely to make it. But I never thought Peyton Barber would either. 

Peyton Barber had way more potential than Sal. Not saying Sal shouldn’t get a chance at training camp at the very least due to his size but PB had more than enough potential to make a practice squad and he showed glimpses of that on the field in his limited time. The fact that he made an NFL roster shows how much talent, will power and discipline he possesses 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

Peyton Barber had way more potential than Sal. Not saying Sal shouldn’t get a chance at training camp at the very least due to his size but PB had more than enough potential to make a practice squad and he showed glimpses of that on the field in his limited time. The fact that he made an NFL roster shows how much talent, will power and discipline he possesses 

Well, Barber got signed and Sal didn't, so I guess you're right. But Sal is a lot more than just a big WR and made some serious wow plays in clutch moments in a garbage ass pass offense. Barber was pretty good in an offense built entirely around making RBs like him succeed. 

Like I said, you're probably right, but I can't assess their potential based off of their AU careers. 

 

[bigbird 60,464]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I can't assess their potential based off of their AU careers. 

Kinda like judging Stidham based on his time here. Remember all the "he has happy feet and can't navigate a pocket" comments? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Kinda like judging Stidham based on his time here. Remember all the "he has happy feet and can't navigate a pocket comments"? 

Full disclosure, I made several of them myself. I was wrong. And you are exactly right. 

Hard to practice navigating a pocket when there almost never is one. Hard to run good routes and catch balls when neither are offered to you very often. 

[alexava 6,973]

55 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Kinda like judging Stidham based on his time here. Remember all the "he has happy feet and can't navigate a pocket" comments? 

He can change my mind when I see him do it. 

[alexava 6,973]

9 hours ago, DAG said:

Peyton Barber had way more potential than Sal. Not saying Sal shouldn’t get a chance at training camp at the very least due to his size but PB had more than enough potential to make a practice squad and he showed glimpses of that on the field in his limited time. The fact that he made an NFL roster shows how much talent, will power and discipline he possesses 

Didn’t mean to pick on PB. He was always a fallback for us. When he left early i though we would never hear of him again.  We have other players who played better professionally than I would have thought but didn’t skip their last year. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

30 minutes ago, alexava said:

He can change my mind when I see him do it. 

He did do it all throughout the NFL preseason. And while it was in fact the preseason, he looked better than almost any other rookie has in recent years. 

And if you go back and watch the first game where he got a lot of reps, he looked just like 2018 Stidham for the first few snaps and by the time he was done he looked like a more mobile Tom Brady. Because he realized that he could trust his linemen to protect him. 

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

He did do it all throughout the NFL preseason. And while it was in fact the preseason, he looked better than almost any other rookie has in recent years. 

And if you go back and watch the first game where he got a lot of reps, he looked just like 2018 Stidham for the first few snaps and by the time he was done he looked like a more mobile Tom Brady. Because he realized that he could trust his linemen to protect him. 

Every body gets hit in the mouth. When that happens will he continue to navigate the pocket. It’s hard to find a better arm. I lost confidence in his head. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, alexava said:

Every body gets hit in the mouth. When that happens will he continue to navigate the pocket. It’s hard to find a better arm. I lost confidence in his head. 

He got hit several times in the preseason. He kept performing.

I don't think his issues in 2018 were about contact. They were about him simply not having many opportunities to set his feet and throw to an open WR. He looked better in 2017 when the running game could at least keep defenses honest.

Think about this. His OC and QB coach left at the end of the season. That guy's boss took over play calling for the next season and the next season only, and has already gone out and found somebody else to take it over.

Of his 5 starting OLs, one of them got drafted. In the sixth round. 

Auburn finished 91st in the country in rushing yards per game in 2018. 

Of the 9 WRs on the depth chart for the first game of the season:

1 guy got drafted in the 5th round after most folks here said he wasn't good enough to leave a year early
1 guy, his top WR by a mile, signed a UFA contract and got cut
1 guy graduated, didn't get drafted, and didn't sign a UFA contract
1 guy who plays safety for us now
2 guys who transferred
3 true freshmen

 

It's hard to overstate just how little Stidham had to work with in 2018. Very, very few guys would have done much better. Certainly not most starting NFL QBs. Jackson, Mahomes, Newton, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson... that might be your list. 

 

[DAG 33,964]

5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Well, Barber got signed and Sal didn't, so I guess you're right. But Sal is a lot more than just a big WR and made some serious wow plays in clutch moments in a garbage ass pass offense. Barber was pretty good in an offense built entirely around making RBs like him succeed. 

Like I said, you're probably right, but I can't assess their potential based off of their AU careers. 

 

He progressed much better towards the end of his career. The bottom line is prior Sal was very inconsistent with catching the ball. This is compounded with the limited reps TEs get. Quite frankly , he just had very limited amount of film. If we take the bias out , there really is no justification for him to get a training camp deal other than his measurements based on what has been put out on him. 
 

Yes Auburn does their best to put the RB  in the best position, but let’s not forget the disaster of 2015. There were a couple of games PB put the team on his back due to bad QB play and lack of offensive fire power. That was the case for the majority of the 2015, so it is not like he was in one of those peak Malzahn offense years. It is much easier to key on a RB in that regard . To me this is the difference. If he is more than a big body WR, somebody would’ve taken a chance on him. Maybe somebody will, but that is not the case. NFL scouts don’t base anybody potential strictly off collegiate strategy either. If that was the case several players would not have gotten the chance to play at the next level.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

He progressed much better towards the end of his career. The bottom line is prior Sal was very inconsistent with catching the ball. This is compounded with the limited reps TEs get. Quite frankly , he just had very limited amount of film. If we take the bias out , there really is no justification for him to get a training camp deal other than his measurements based on what has been put out on him. 

Yes Auburn does their best to put the RB  in the best position, but let’s not forget the disaster of 2015. There were a couple of games PB put the team on his back due to bad QB play and lack of offensive fire power. That was the case for the majority of the 2015, so it is not like he was in one of those peak Malzahn offense years. It is much easier to key on a RB in that regard . To me this is the difference. If he is more than a big body WR, somebody would’ve taken a chance on him. Maybe somebody will, but that is not the case. NFL scouts don’t base anybody potential strictly off collegiate strategy either. If that was the case several players would not have gotten the chance to play at the next level.

Yeah, just gonna have to agree to disagree about almost all of that. Especially Sal being inconsistent catching the ball. I'm not sure I've ever seen an Auburn player get a more bogus rap than that. But a lot of people agree with you. 

And there's no bias. Not sure what you mean by that. I watched both dudes play for their entire careers at Auburn and rooted for both of them to succeed. 

As for collegiate strategy, I'm not saying that the NFL bases their evals off of that. I'm saying it's why Barber was able to produce at Auburn and Sal was not. Same reason most RBs have produced under Gus and most WRs have not. 

[DAG 33,964]

5 hours ago, bigbird said:

Kinda like judging Stidham based on his time here. Remember all the "he has happy feet and can't navigate a pocket" comments? 

He absolutely had happy feet. How is that an unfair critique? In fact people who have no connection to Auburn also noted this during film breakdown

https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-com-draft-profile-qb-jarrett-stidham

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019jstidham.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823983-jarrett-stidham-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-england-patriots-pick

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jarrett-stidham

[DAG 33,964]

23 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yeah, just gonna have to agree to disagree about almost all of that. Especially Sal being inconsistent catching the ball. I'm not sure I've ever seen an Auburn player get a more bogus rap than that. But a lot of people agree with you. 

And there's no bias. Not sure what you mean by that. I watched both dudes play for their entire careers at Auburn and rooted for both of them to succeed. 

As for collegiate strategy, I'm not saying that the NFL bases their evals off of that. I'm saying it's why Barber was able to produce at Auburn and Sal was not. Same reason most RBs have produced under Gus and most WRs have not. 

You can disagree all you like, but the fact of the matter is, the dude hasn't gotten a slot yet. I am saying your bias because you are putting the energy out that he got the short end of the stick due to Malzhan's offense. People who do this for a living, who have zero connection to AU, have not given this guy a call. You mention the WR production from Auburn. There are several WR who had limited roles in this offense, have gotten a chance at the league one way or another.  If  NFL professionals find something in a player whether it is their skill set, their parameters, you will get some sort of training camp spot. They are not going to let characteristics of the Malzhan offense stop them in that regard. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, DAG said:

You can disagree all you like, but the fact of the matter is, the dude hasn't gotten a slot yet. I am saying your bias because you are putting the energy out that he got the short end of the stick due to Malzhan's offense. People who do this for a living, who have zero connection to AU, have not given this guy a call. You mention the WR production from Auburn. There are several reasons who had limited roles in this offense, who gotten a chance at the league one way or another.  If  NFL professionals find something in a player whether it is their skill set, their parameters, you will get some sort of training camp spot. They are not going to let characteristics of the Malzhan offense stop them in that regard. 

Ah. You're that DAG today. I'll catch up with you another time. 

 

[DAG 33,964]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Ah. You're that DAG today. I'll catch up with you another time. 

 

 

BTW: C.J. Uzomah vs Sal

Go look at their numbers? Compare and Contrast them

Now tell me why C.J. has been on a professional team and Sal hasn't even gotten training camp call. 

[bigbird 60,464]

34 minutes ago, DAG said:

He absolutely had happy feet. How is that an unfair critique? In fact people who have no connection to Auburn also noted this during film breakdown

https://www.patriots.com/news/patriots-com-draft-profile-qb-jarrett-stidham

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019jstidham.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823983-jarrett-stidham-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-england-patriots-pick

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jarrett-stidham

The issue wasn't that he had happy feet. It was the fact that he had a non-existent pocket with below avg OL either being pushed into him or trying to block from their backs. The criticisms while he was at AU was misplaced by many. He was the effect, not the cause.

[DAG 33,964]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The issue wasn't that he happy feet. It was the fact that he had a non-existent pocket with below avg OL either being pushed into him or trying to block from their backs. The criticisms while he was at AU was misplaced by many. He was the effect, not the cause.

Nobody is disregarding that. I am saying to think this is just an Auburn critique is not the case. People who have taken what you said in consideration, with detailed analysis, still emphasis this critique of his game. So, therefore, it must be misplaced universally? 

[bigbird 60,464]

Just now, DAG said:

Nobody is disregarding that. I am saying to think this is just an Auburn critique is not the case. People who have taken what you said in consideration, with detailed analysis, still emphasis this critique of his game. So, therefore, it must be misplaced universally? 

You can only critique what is seen and his play at AU deserved that crticism. However, his play at AU was not a true representation of his game, skill, or ability due to the incredibly poor OL play and the limited field utilization of the passing game. The OL play and ability is one of the most important determinants of QB play.  Again, he was the effect not the cause.

Those that know the game understood that and that's why he was drafted. If not, no team would have wasted a pick on a happy footed QB.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Nobody is disregarding that. I am saying to think this is just an Auburn critique is not the case. People who have taken what you said in consideration, with detailed analysis, still emphasis this critique of his game. So, therefore, it must be misplaced universally? 

I hesitate to jump in here, but if you have not had trust in the people responsible to protect you, you carry that tendency along with you until you can build trust in those that are there to protect.  The only way to build that trust is in game time reps.  I can understand if analysts have critiqued his game, but it is a product of his environment and HE must break it.

[DAG 33,964]

18 minutes ago, bigbird said:

You can only critique what is seen and his play at AU deserved that crticism. However, his play at AU was not a true representation of his game, skill, or ability due to the incredibly poor OL play and the limited field utilization of the passing game. The OL play and ability is one of the most important determinants of QB play.  Again, he was the effect not the cause.

Those that know the game understood that and that's why he was drafted. If not, no team would have wasted a pick on a happy footed QB.

What?  That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. People have drafted QBs for much less. 

Correct. And several scouts used that same criteria to criticize his game. A recurrent theme was he scrambled very quickly when things broke down and he did not keep his head down the field. Even in the face of not trusting his offensive line, you CANNOT just dismiss the critique. It is no different than when a player plays on a great offensive scheme.  Recruiters aren't just going to dismiss a QB strength just because he has a great line and great WRs. That is for sure taken into account to just like bad o-line play, but it does not dissolve the analysis.

 

But the good thing about this, is now, we get to see if it is a true representation of JS. He is in a great position. I had this same debate about LSU Joe. People wanted to take away his strengths because of who he was surrounded by. I don't particularly think it will take away the QB make up of him. It very well could affect his stats. We will see.

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I hesitate to jump in here, but if you have not had trust in the people responsible to protect you, you carry that tendency along with you until you can build trust in those that are there to protect.  The only way to build that trust is in game time reps.  I can understand if analysts have critiqued his game, but it is a product of his environment and HE must break it.

I never said anything differently in my previous posts. I am just simply saying it is not simply an AU fanbase critique. 

[bigbird 60,464]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

What?  That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. People have drafted QBs for much less. 

The silliest thing you've ever heard was actually an agreement to your premise that others outside of AU had the criticism that he had happy feet. So...

His criticism, by the professionals that do it for a living, were well founded based on his performance at AU. However, it doesn't negate the causation behind that criticism. His instantaneous improvement in that specific  area once drafted is evidence of that.

[bigbird 60,464]

Where are those happy feet we saw for two years just months after leaving AU?

Cause and effect...

[DAG 33,964]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The silliest thing you've ever heard was actually an agreement to your premise that others outside of AU had the criticism that he had happy feet. So...

His criticism, by the professionals that do it for a living, were well founded based on his performance at AU. However, it doesn't negate the causation behind that criticism. His instantaneous improvement in that specific  area once drafted is evidence of that.

I was saying your statement about a team wasting a draft pick on someone with happy feet is SILLY. Teams draft players for things way worst then JS biggest critique. Despite of all that, JS has amazing upside. Of course he would get drafted. That was never a question. The biggest issue is JS had no business being drafted in the fourth round. He actually went backwards. So a fourth round pick for someone with the upside of JS is actually a GREAT PICK. You don't have nearly enough of sample evidence to truly know if he improved in that area or not. By all points he looked good in practice and very well in preseason, but that is completely different when you are the starting QB and you will be facing everyone's 1s in the regular season. You keep responding with the negating the causation. I have never once negated responsibility of the offensive line. I am simply saying you characterization that the critiquing of JS happy feet was solely from AU fans is wrong. He did have happy feet. He did have average to below average offensive line play. It did affect him. 

[DAG 33,964]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Where are those happy feet we saw for two years just months after leaving AU?

Cause and effect...

In a highlight video? I don't think you would find any of that in Auburn highlight video, either , correct? From the YouTube videos I have seen of deeper analysis, He looks good. He even steps up in the pocket, but this was preseason . It is much different. I think you realize that and even so, it is not a huge sample size. 

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

I never said anything differently in my previous posts. I am just simply saying it is not simply an AU fanbase critique

Yeah, not arguing, just pointing out that he (Stidham) has to unlearn a bad tendency.  He will either grow or get cut.