Reopening states will cause 233,000 more people...

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

42 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

salty word around the office is you wear a thong on the beach. is this true lad?  lol

Why do you think he is a chick magnet?  What else could it be?

[ShocksMyBrain 9,362]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

2,000 Americans died in the last 24 hours. 

But I need my riblets and nails done!

People on my local community’s FB page were bitching because Wal Mart was encouraging wearing masks. Not requiring, encouraging. Like what more do you people want?

[aubiefifty 16,695]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Why do you think he is a chick magnet?  What else could it be?

he made me swear not to give out his secrets so you might try him? i was a chick magnet once. mine was singing. i was singing billy idols rebel yell once and this hawt chick comes up to me at break and told me she was going to make my rebel azz yell................insert bug eyes here. later i was singing durans big single no maas....................grins

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

On 5/8/2020 at 10:54 AM, ShocksMyBrain said:

But I need my riblets and nails done!

People on my local community’s FB page were bitching because Wal Mary was encouraging wearing masks. Not requiring, encouraging. Like what more do you people want?

Raw numbers are always misleading.  What age group were the deaths?  What part of the country did they live?  I would like to see the difference between these deaths and the deaths attributed to COVID-19.  The media hasn’t said and seem to not believe people die from any other cause.

The media has done their job because everybody is scared of their own shadow.  My God, please let the American people get some good information that we can use, not just if you get COVID-19 you die.  At worse  you have a 98% chance of survival.

[aubiefifty 16,695]

7 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

But I need my riblets and nails done!

People on my local community’s FB page were bitching because Wal Mart was encouraging wearing masks. Not requiring, encouraging. Like what more do you people want?

this is kinda harsh but i say let em drink some bleach and stick a light bulb up their bum and let us know how it went...........lol. thats funny right there.

[aubiefifty 16,695]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Raw numbers are always misleading.  What age group were the deaths?  What part of the country did they live?  I would like to see the difference between these deaths and the deaths attributed to COVID-19.  The media hasn’t said and seem to not believe people die from any other cause.

The media has done their job because everybody is scared of their own shadow.  My God, please let the American people get some good information that we can use, not just if you get COVID-19 you die.  At worst you have a 98% chance of survival.

well lets be sure and blame the white house because they are a huge source of misinformation. if you think trump does not care if someone dies to help his reelection chances then i have lost all hope for ya..........

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

But I need my riblets and nails done!

People on my local community’s FB page were bitching because Wal Mart was encouraging wearing masks. Not requiring, encouraging. Like what more do you people want?

Just one reason why reopening now is such a bad idea. 

Or maybe I should say that's why so many states opening under their current state and federal governance is such a bad idea. There isn't really anything in place to ensure that we reopen responsibly and safely. King Orange Jackass and his creepy closeted sidekick are actively dissuading people from wearing masks. And, staying right on script, folks are more than happy to oblige. 

But it's not just trump supporters/Republicans. It's YOLO DGAF liberal millenials, too. And boomers of all persuasions. And people who just don't know better. Most of whom would comply, though, if the authorities just had the guts to tell them to. 

I get that the states don't want to pay unemployment. It's evil AF, but it's logical. What's not logical is not putting any more effort into opening safely. Unless this really is being viewed as an opportunity to cull the herd. 

Also, isn't it interesting that so many people are all "Welp some people gotta die so I can get paid" but they have zero interest in exploring a system that provides more of a safety net for society? Like, doesn't even remotely raise an eyebrow with these people that we call ourselves the greatest country on earth when 2 months of being out of work could destroy half of Americans' lives. 

Nope. Let's just get right back to how things have always been, except with a lot more dead people. Cool. Great Again America is so dope. 

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

well lets be sure and blame the white house because they are a huge source of misinformation. if you think trump does not care if someone dies to help his reelection chances then i have lost all hope for ya..........

 There is no evidence that Trump doesn’t care about the loss of life.  I’m not blaming anybody other than the media for the fear mongering that is going on.  Information about the seriousness was required when this thing first appeared, but now that we know more about it, it’s time to look at it more realist, without the political spin.

People that are condemning the protesters seem to be the people that are working.  The protesters seem to be the people that are not working and need some help that they are not getting.  They are also business owners that want to get back to work for fear that they will loose their business. Case in point is the salon owner in Texas just trying to make money to feed her kids.

Cuomo, the great, has been tracing COVID-19 patients and has found that 66% of the new cases have said they were staying at home.  Only 2% because they were out and about, another 1% from public transportation (to and from work).  If this can be validated by other communities, it’s time to be less restrictive.

I’m retired and have not worked for 3 years, so I have no dog in the fight, so to speak.  I just hate to see life grind to a halt because we don’t know enough about what is happening.  If we open up, it is the responsibility of each of us to decide what is best for ourselves and our families.  If enough people are wary about going out, then the businesses will not survive and it won’t be time to open up.  It should be the people’s decision, not government at this point.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Just one reason why reopening now is such a bad idea. 

Or maybe I should say that's why so many states opening under their current state and federal governance is such a bad idea. There isn't really anything in place to ensure that we reopen responsibly and safely. King Orange Jackass and his creepy closeted sidekick are actively dissuading people from wearing masks. And, staying right on script, folks are more than happy to oblige. 

But it's not just trump supporters/Republicans. It's YOLO DGAF liberal millenials, too. And boomers of all persuasions. And people who just don't know better. Most of whom would comply, though, if the authorities just had the guts to tell them to. 

I get that the states don't want to pay unemployment. It's evil AF, but it's logical. What's not logical is not putting any more effort into opening safely. Unless this really is being viewed as an opportunity to cull the herd. 

Also, isn't it interesting that so many people are all "Welp some people gotta die so I can get paid" but they have zero interest in exploring a system that provides more of a safety net for society? Like, doesn't even remotely raise an eyebrow with these people that we call ourselves the greatest country on earth when 2 months of being out of work could destroy half of Americans' lives. 

Nope. Let's just get right back to how things have always been, except with a lot more dead people. Cool. Great Again America is so dope. 

Some poster was asking what Virtue Signaling was.....Well the quoted post is a real good example.  Basically it is a person that is self righteous. 

Do you always let government tell you what to do?  Can you think for yourself? If you don’t want to participate in the world and believe other people can’t be trusted, have at it.  Don’t screw it for the rest of the people.  TDS, it makes people crazy.

[DKW 86 7,410]

From Progressive FB Page:

 

Quote

 

1) How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe?

2) How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe?

3) How many wives and children must be stuck at home with an abusive husband/father in order to make you feel safe?

4) How many business owners should lose everything they've worked for in order to make you feel safe?

5) How many people are you comfortable with committing suicide from hopelessness and financial ruin in order to make you feel safe?

Come up with an actual number, don't just dismiss the questions. Come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

Does it make you feel safer knowing that your unwarranted fear and panic are costing others their livelihoods and even their very lives?

Each time you complain about keeping the country shut down, remember what it's costing OTHER people for you to sit in your house...

 

 

[DKW 86 7,410]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

salon.com

 

Woman who accused Dr. Anthony Fauci of sexual assault now claims Trump supporters paid her to lie

 

3-4 minutes

---

Diana Andrade claims right-wing provocateur Jacob Wohl and frequent accomplice Jack Burkman were behind the scheme

 

Travis Gettys

May 7, 2020 4:09PM (UTC)

This article originally appeared on Raw Story

A woman who had accused Dr. Anthony Fauci of sexual assault now claims she was paid to lie about the public health expert by a pair of President Donald Trump's supporters.

The woman says right-wing provocateur Jacob Wohl and his frequent accomplice Jack Burkman persuaded her to cast Fauci as the assailant using details from an actual sexual assault she survived just after high school, and they paid her to do it, reported Reason.

"The reality is that I've known Jacob since 2018 and that he charmed me into taking money to do this (see attached picture of us together)," said Diana Andrade in an email to the website. "[They also] had me do something like this . . . back in January."

Andrade said she decided to abandon her claims and try to record incriminating evidence against the pair after Wohl asked her to find another woman to accuse Fauci of sexual assault — as they've done to former special counsel Robert Mueller and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA).

"Let me tell you something, Diana," says Burkman on the nine-minute, 35-second call. "This guy shut the country down. He put 40 million people out of work. In a situation like that, you have to make up whatever you have to make up to stop that train and that's the way life works, OK? That's the way it goes."

Andrade reminds the pair that COVID-19 was dangerous, and asked them to take the outbreak seriously — but Burkman seemed excited about mass deaths.

"Mother Nature has to clean the barn every so often," Burkman says. "How real is it? Who knows? So what if 1 percent of the population goes? So what if you lose 400,000 people? 200,000 were elderly, the other 200,000 are the bottom of society. You got to clean out the barn. If it's real, it's a positive thing, for God's sake."

Andrade sounded horrified by his "survival of the fittest" argument, and then Wohl begged her to keep her mouth shut and stick with her story.

"What could be wrong, Diana?" Wohl asks. "You did a good job. You got paid. What's the problem? What seems to be the issue? You're freaking out. You're texting me late at night. What's the issue?"

Andrade asks whether a man who hand-delivered five figures to her in Los Angeles was actually a lawyer, as the pair claimed, and Wohl boasts that the attorney has White House connections.

"Yeah, he's a real lawyer," Wohl says. "He's a good lawyer."

Shortly after the call ended, Andrade decided to send the recording to Reason and expose the pair's nefarious scheme.

"I don't know how they do all these things and why they do all these things," Andrade said. "Also, he tried to frame Mueller . . . I'm like, how is he not in jail?"

Travis Gettys

Wow, this is how far we have fallen in politics today...

[wdefromtx 3,159]

On average 1,773 Americans die every 24 hours from heart disease alone (2017 data). Let that sink in. 

If someone can figure out a way to have every stay at home and legitimately find a way that working Americans can still maintain their livelihood and know that they don't have to worry about their mortgages, electricity etc. then I am all for staying shut down until this is deemed passed. 

 

Let's not forget the 129 on average that commit suicide each day and how this shutdown may affect that as well and cause that number to go up. But people often forget that side of things.

 

[aubiefifty 16,695]

4 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Wow, this is how far we have fallen in politics today...

yep. and biden guilty or not does not have 42 women making rape and assault accusations against him which the trumpers claim is fake news but bidens is the real deal.....

[homersapien 11,352]

It's not opening up that's the issue. 

It's doing so without a federally-coordinated strategy on managing it - specifically, testing and contact tracing.

Other countries are doing this successfully.  We aren't.

[Mikey 16,545]

1 hour ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

But I need my riblets and nails done!

 

If there were any data at all that shows you'd be safer staying at home than you are eating ribs or getting a haircut, that might be a valid concern. So far, there's been no recent correlation between staying home and not catching the virus. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

49 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

On average 1,773 Americans die every 24 hours from heart disease alone (2017 data). Let that sink in. 

Heart disease isn't contagious and those deaths are largely a result of lifestyle choices. But they're also a result of a bad approach to healthcare that I'm all for fixing.

Quote

If someone can figure out a way to have every stay at home and legitimately find a way that working Americans can still maintain their livelihood and know that they don't have to worry about their mortgages, electricity etc. then I am all for staying shut down until this is deemed passed. 

Andrew Yang, Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren all have great ideas that would help address this. 

Quote

Let's not forget the 129 on average that commit suicide each day and how this shutdown may affect that as well and cause that number to go up. But people often forget that side of things.

It will also be interesting to see how the reopening affects that number.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Heart disease isn't contagious and those deaths are largely a result of lifestyle choices. But they're also a result of a bad approach to healthcare that I'm all for fixing.

A life is a life regardless, and if people want to go out or stay home is a choice as well. 

Quote

Andrew Yang, Bernie Sanders and Liz Warren all have great ideas that would help address this. 

I said legitimately, but maybe I should have said feasible. I am not sure that there is a feasible way without racking up many trillions more. We rang up nearly 3 trillion dollars almost overnight and there's talks of more stimulus. I am not saying I am totally against it, but a lot of what they pitch isn't exactly feasible.

[homersapien 11,352]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-ready-reopen-kansas-montana-washington-wyoming-coronavirus/

Who's ready to reopen? Only 4 states at best, Wall Street says

 

By Irina Ivanova

April 24, 2020 / 5:49 PM / MoneyWatch

Which U.S. states are ready to reopen for business? Georgia on Friday let employers including hair salons and restaurants begin admitting customers, while Alaska, Oklahoma and Texas are discussing reopening strategies. Many other states' stay-at-home orders expire at the end of April.

Yet those states and the vast majority of others do not yet meet the criteria to start loosening coronavirus-related restrictions safely, according to research by health care analysts at investment banking company Raymond James.

Just four of 50 states meet all of the White House's criteria to begin a phased reopening, Raymond James wrote. Those are Kansas, Montana, Washington and Wyoming.

The findings are based on the guidance suggested in the White House's reopening plan, which are called "gating criteria." That plan recommends (but does not require) that states hold off on reopening non-essential businesses until they see a 14-day decline in flu-like illnesses and positive COVID-19 tests; hospitals can treat all patients; and there is a "robust testing program" that includes antibody testing that can confirm whether someone has been exposed to the coronavirus.

Michigan and New Jersey are the least prepared to thaw out their business sector, meeting none of the White House's criteria, according to Raymond James analysts. Most states have met one or two of the points needed to start reopening. But even that might be overstating their readiness, according to the investment bank.   

"Notably, although a few states are green per this analysis, none are truly ready according to the 'Opening Up America Again' criteria as many do not have widespread antibody testing available," the analysts wrote.

Antibody testing can reveal how many people in a given area have been exposed to COVID-19 and who might be immune to the illness. It's seen as particularly important because many people infected with the coronavirus do not show symptoms. (A recent sample test of people in New York state revealed that 2.7 million residents may have been exposed statewide, about 10 times the number who have tested positive for COVID-19.)

Georgia, notably, is among the less-prepared states, according to the Wall Street analysts, who point out that the number of confirmed tests of COVID-19 in the state has grown by an average of 15% per day in the last two weeks.

"Georgia scores in the top 50% of states who should not reopen," they wrote, noting that "the state's symptom position leaves much to be desired."

 A separate study from the Dartmouth Atlas recently found that cases of COVID-19 are growing fastest in states that are considering reopening soon, including those in the South and Midwest.

"We need to be aware that this epidemic is far from over," said the study's author, Dr. Elliott Fisher, a professor of health policy and medicine at The Dartmouth Institute, adding, "The number of cases in every region today are higher than they were a week ago."

While relatively small groups of protestors in some states are clamoring for public health guidelines to be lifted, claiming it would revive local economies, most Americans are prioritizing health concerns, a CBS News poll reveals.

Nearly two-thirds of the survey respondents said they were more worried about the economy reopening too quickly and worsening the virus outbreak, while just one-third was more concerned about reopening to slowly. Nearly half said they would not leave their house until the pandemic ended even if local stay-at-home orders were lifted, 

There are numerous potential risks to states prematurely reactivating their economies. That includes possibly triggering a second and even more intense wave of infections, followed by another economic blow as businesses shutter again, according to economists and public health experts.

"We do not believe any state is truly ready to open up on a wide scale," Raymond James wrote. "[A] safe return to some level of normalcy without a vaccine or effective therapeutic would require a robust test, trace and isolate strategy that our country does not yet have the infrastructure to execute."

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

A life is a life regardless, and if people want to go out or stay home is a choice as well. 

It's not really a choice for many people whose employers have reopened, because many of them will no longer be able to collect unemployment. And while I can control my behavior in public, I can't control anyone else's, so that becomes less about choice, too. That's why I pointed out that heart disease isn't infectious. That's what you and so many continue to ignore. With infectious diseases, your choices don't only affect you. That is why the government has to get involved.

25 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

We rang up nearly 3 trillion dollars almost overnight

I mean, I wouldn't call 3 years "overnight". Kidding, a little. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/national-debt-deficit-trump-how-it-compares-obama-bush-clinton-2019-11

Those ideas are fiscally feasible. It's just that they require Americans to adjust our priorities a bit. Maybe that renders them practically unfeasible, but that's on people who refuse to adapt and it's not a reason to stop trying.  

[wdefromtx 3,159]

19 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's not really a choice for many people whose employers have reopened, because many of them will no longer be able to collect unemployment. And while I can control my behavior in public, I can't control anyone else's, so that becomes less about choice, too. That's why I pointed out that heart disease isn't infectious. That's what you and so many continue to ignore. With infectious diseases, your choices don't only affect you. That is why the government has to get involved.

I mean, I wouldn't call 3 years "overnight". Kidding, a little. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/national-debt-deficit-trump-how-it-compares-obama-bush-clinton-2019-11

Those ideas are fiscally feasible. It's just that they require Americans to adjust our priorities a bit. Maybe that renders them practically unfeasible, but that's on people who refuse to adapt and it's not a reason to stop trying.  

I am not talking about the debt in normal times, that's already bad enough. I think most people are already aware of the national debt and his contribution to it. So unless you are saying adding more debt isn't a big deal because they all do it, I don't see what value that adds to this. I am more specifically talking about the nearly 3 trillion since March. And I am not saying it wasn't necessary, it dried up like it was nothing and we are only in early May. 

 

Actually too, from what I have read and seen first hand from some folks I know, many have decided to not go back to work because they may more on unemployment. And there are many companies (mine included) that have allowed for additional PTO if one thinks it is not safe to do so. Or they are allowing work from home arrangements. So there is still a lot of latitude for people to have a choice. If you don't want to be around people that aren't as responsible then you have the choice not to be around them.

 

Let's also bring remember the victims of domestic violence and how that has shot up since people were required to stay at home. Where was their choice? 

 

For every reason to stay closed there is a reason to try to open up as much as possible and safely as possible to get back to some type of normalcy.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I am not talking about the debt in normal times, that's already bad enough. I think most people are already aware of the national debt and his contribution to it. So unless you are saying adding more debt isn't a big deal because they all do it, I don't see what value that adds to this. I am more specifically talking about the nearly 3 trillion since March. And I am not saying it wasn't necessary, it dried up like it was nothing and we are only in early May. 

"Lighten up, Francis." I said I was kidding a little. I know what 3 trillion you were referring to. But what I'm saying is that we could accomplish some of the more outside-the-box ideas from the left by spending the money we're spending anyway, just differently.

Quote

Actually too, from what I have read and seen first hand from some folks I know, many have decided to not go back to work because they may more on unemployment. And there are many companies (mine included) that have allowed for additional PTO if one thinks it is not safe to do so. Or they are allowing work from home arrangements. So there is still a lot of latitude for people to have a choice. If you don't want to be around people that aren't as responsible then you have the choice not to be around them.

You know of a couple examples of employers being accommodating, so you just assume that applies to everyone? That's... very strange thinking. 

I work in IT. I could easily do 100% of my job remotely. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for me to come to the office every day. Yet I am required to. My only other option is FMLA, and that is only if I have a family member with a pre-existing condition that makes them a high risk candidate for problems from the virus.  

Your point of view seems rather narrow.

Quote

Let's also bring remember the victims of domestic violence and how that has shot up since people were required to stay at home. Where was their choice? 

Feel free to gather the concrete numbers and then we'll compare them against the number of deaths a month after reopening and then see how we feel. 

Regardless, yes, I and most people are well aware of this unfortunate issue. 

Quote

For every reason to stay closed there is a reason to try to open up as much as possible and safely as possible to get back to some type of normalcy.

Well, that's highly debatable, obviously, and there's not really much being done to make sure it happens safely. I guess I'll keep saying that to you as long as I have to. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

"Lighten up, Francis." I said I was kidding a little. I know what 3 trillion you were referring to. But what I'm saying is that we could accomplish some of the more outside-the-box ideas from the left by spending the money we're spending anyway, just differently.

Sadly, this will never happen because most of the big spending is tied to shady corporate and lobbyist deals with our goons in Congress and they aren't going to let that gravy train go away.

 

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You know of a couple examples of employers being accommodating, so you just assume that applies to everyone? That's... very strange thinking. 

I work in IT. I could easily do 100% of my job remotely. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for me to come to the office every day. Yet I am required to. My only other option is FMLA, and that is only if I have a family member with a pre-existing condition that makes them a high risk candidate for problems from the virus.  

Your point of view seems rather narrow.

No that is not strange or narrow thinking to point out that more people have more choices than you assume.

 

17 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Feel free to gather the concrete numbers and then we'll compare them against the number of deaths a month after reopening and then see how we feel. 

Regardless, yes, I and most people are well aware of this unfortunate issue. 

Well, that's highly debatable, obviously, and there's not really much being done to make sure it happens safely. I guess I'll keep saying that to you as long as I have to. 

That is the thing nobody knows how much it will increase, everyone has a different idea of what they think is safe as well. I do agree that there isn't much being done on the federal level to ensure a safe opening. But I think at the state level there is much better management. At least here in Texas where I know what is going on. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

No that is not strange or narrow thinking to point out that more people have more choices than you assume.

Wrong. I know for a fact that many people have choices. But you made an inaccurate blanket statement- citing extremely limited data- which is what I responded to. 

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Sadly, this will never happen because most of the big spending is tied to shady corporate and lobbyist deals with our goons in Congress and they aren't going to let that gravy train go away.

And because those shady corporations and lobbyists can count on the American public to risk their lives to make sure their shareholders stay happy. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

23 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Wrong. I know for a fact that many people have choices. But you made an inaccurate blanket statement- citing extremely limited data- which is what I responded to. 

And because those shady corporations and lobbyists can count on the American public to risk their lives to make sure their shareholders stay happy. 

Never mind the fact that maintaining their livelihood is why many Americans want to get back to work.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Never mind the fact that maintaining their livelihood is why many Americans want to get back to work.

Yup. No choice when the system isn't set up to take care of folks when they need it. Guess it's gonna stay that way.