vick and his treatment of dogs....

[aubiefifty 16,753]

this thread is made for those that do not understand the thing about vick and dogs. some of you said this is a subject that should be addressed in the political forums. i basically said i have not forgiven vick yet for his treatment of dogs so here it is. another said he did not understand why it was such a big deal when hunters put dead animals on their walls. and both of the people making comments were not mean for  anyone that missed it in the football section.

i consider my dogs family since most of my real family is gone. they are loving. they have their own personalities. they are all rescues. one was abused so bad she might tinkle on you if you pick her up. but she loves the hell out of me and i call her my bff. look, take your wife and lock her up in the trunk of your car and ride around a few hours. when you let her out you had probably better run. do the same with a dog and they are just happy to get out. but enough on my part i am genuinely interested in differing opinions.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Our pets are like family too and I still haven't forgiven him as well. I am glad they have toughened the laws regarding animal cruelty. 

[aubiefifty 16,753]

12 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Our pets are like family too and I still haven't forgiven him as well. I am glad they have toughened the laws regarding animal cruelty. 

someone was skinning dogs and cats in birmingham a couple of years ago. i am not sure if they were ever caught. but someone is always shooting dogs or cats on occasion and some did it with a bow. i just do not get it.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, aubiefifty said:

someone was skinning dogs and cats in birmingham a couple of years ago. i am not sure if they were ever caught. but someone is always shooting dogs or cats on occasion and some did it with a bow. i just do not get it.

That's just sick, also a sign that they are a psychopath that is one step from becoming a serial killer like Dahmer or Bundy.

 

Hell, I feel bad if I accidentally step on my dogs tail. 

[Grumps 3,704]

So is it the dog that is important, or how we feel about dogs? Are the Chinese people who raise dogs to be eaten and eat them evil? Are we evil if we eat beef when some cultures revere cattle?

By the way, I like dogs and agree that skinning the animals for the purpose of being cruel is psychopathic. I am just trying to look at this from another perspective.

And yes, I realize that by asking these questions I automatically become a Vick supporter.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, Grumps said:

So is it the dog that is important, or how we feel about dogs? Are the Chinese people who raise dogs to be eaten and eat them evil? Are we evil if we eat beef when some cultures revere cattle?

By the way, I like dogs and agree that skinning the animals for the purpose of being cruel is psychopathic. I am just trying to look at this from another perspective.

And yes, I realize that by asking these questions I automatically become a Vick supporter.

I don't take it as you being a Vick supporter. I didn't think about it like that. I think it has to do more with our culture and the attachment we develop with our pets. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Obviously dog fighting is abhorrent, but I'm curious if you all eat factory farmed pork, which is pretty much every pork product available at the grocery store and at most restaurants? And if you are aware that pigs are at least as intelligent and emotionally complex as dogs, and how they are treated from birth to slaughter by most pork producers?

***Just read @Grumps's post as I'm typing this***

Vick earned outrage and I fully encourage people to "vote with their wallet" when it comes to companies and products that he endorses if they so choose, but I'll caution against targeting him as the face of animal cruelty. He has inflicted far less cruelty on animals than many well-respected and highly profitable companies do every single day. (Never mind the environmental damage of factory farming.)

[aubiefifty 16,753]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Obviously dog fighting is abhorrent, but I'm curious if you all eat factory farmed pork, which is pretty much every pork product available at the grocery store and at most restaurants? And if you are aware that pigs are at least as intelligent and emotionally complex as dogs, and how they are treated from birth to slaughter by most pork producers?

***Just read @Grumps's post as I'm typing this***

Vick earned outrage and I fully encourage people to "vote with their wallet" when it comes to companies and products that he endorses if they so choose, but I'll caution against targeting him as the face of animal cruelty. He has inflicted far less cruelty on animals than many well-respected and highly profitable companies do every single day. (Never mind the environmental damage of factory farming.)

 

14 minutes ago, Grumps said:

So is it the dog that is important, or how we feel about dogs? Are the Chinese people who raise dogs to be eaten and eat them evil? Are we evil if we eat beef when some cultures revere cattle?

By the way, I like dogs and agree that skinning the animals for the purpose of being cruel is psychopathic. I am just trying to look at this from another perspective.

And yes, I realize that by asking these questions I automatically become a Vick supporter.

i am not arguing with anyone on this point. you have the right to believe what you will. loof amde a great point about pork. i also have a close friend and she is a vegan and she posts picks of some horrible conditions and i admit it breaks my heart. but here is where i get confused. why are fish ok to eat. i have seen videos of a man who had a huge goldfish that would swim over to get a head rub. no kidding. fish have lives tho they are not mammals. and what about plants? years ago scientists discovered plants, etc, have secret lives as well. music stimulated them amongst other things. stevie wonder even did a whole album on it way back in the day. so my question is what do we eat? i am serious and would love to hear differing responses. do we try to eat rocks or gravel? see my point? and it is like hunting. i am not a hunter but i know many. and each year the fish an game folks normally make a statement that many deer would starve to death or disease because of hunger which i guess they say ismore humane? i have gone over all of this in my head for years. all i can come up with is hope purchase meat that has been raised and farmed humanely. but i will listen to any and all answers..............

[Grumps 3,704]

17 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Obviously dog fighting is abhorrent, but I'm curious if you all eat factory farmed pork, which is pretty much every pork product available at the grocery store and at most restaurants? And if you are aware that pigs are at least as intelligent and emotionally complex as dogs, and how they are treated from birth to slaughter by most pork producers?

***Just read @Grumps's post as I'm typing this***

Vick earned outrage and I fully encourage people to "vote with their wallet" when it comes to companies and products that he endorses if they so choose, but I'll caution against targeting him as the face of animal cruelty. He has inflicted far less cruelty on animals than many well-respected and highly profitable companies do every single day. (Never mind the environmental damage of factory farming.)

For the record, I agree that Vick earned his outrage. Basically, disregarding the genetic disparity in the capacity for pigs and dogs to carry edible muscle, we could just as easily have pigs for pets and raise dogs primarily as a food source. In other words, this is as much of a cultural issue as it is a moral issue.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, Grumps said:

For the record, I agree that Vick earned his outrage. Basically, disregarding the genetic disparity in the capacity for pigs and dogs to carry edible muscle, we could just as easily have pigs for pets and raise dogs primarily as a food source. In other words, this is as much of a cultural issue as it is a moral issue.

Also add that in regards to the food production McLoofus pointed out, I think a lot of people take an out of sight out of mind approach to it. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i am not arguing with anyone on this point. you have the right to believe what you will. loof amde a great point about pork. i also have a close friend and she is a vegan and she posts picks of some horrible conditions and i admit it breaks my heart. but here is where i get confused. why are fish ok to eat. i have seen videos of a man who had a huge goldfish that would swim over to get a head rub. no kidding. fish have lives tho they are not mammals. and what about plants? years ago scientists discovered plants, etc, have secret lives as well. music stimulated them amongst other things. stevie wonder even did a whole album on it way back in the day. so my question is what do we eat? i am serious and would love to hear differing responses. do we try to eat rocks or gravel? see my point? and it is like hunting. i am not a hunter but i know many. and each year the fish an game folks normally make a statement that many deer would starve to death or disease because of hunger which i guess they say ismore humane? i have gone over all of this in my head for years. all i can come up with is hope purchase meat that has been raised and farmed humanely. but i will listen to any and all answers..............

Good post. I'll only say to the last sentence... if it doesn't say the word "humanely" on the package, then it was probably pretty inhumane. There is a lot of other verbiage meant to suggest humane conditions but don't mean that at all. "Outdoor access", for instance, can just mean that there's a window in the barn.

[aubiefifty 16,753]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

Also add that in regards to the food production McLoofus pointed out, I think a lot of people take an out of sight out of mind approach to it. 

yes i was one.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

For the record, I agree that Vick earned his outrage. Basically, disregarding the genetic disparity in the capacity for pigs and dogs to carry edible muscle, we could just as easily have pigs for pets and raise dogs primarily as a food source. In other words, this is as much of a cultural issue as it is a moral issue.

Yup, totally took it that way and didn't mean to suggest disagreement. 

Excellent hypothetical re: pigs and dogs. 

Totally on point about culture. Many cultures around the world- and in the US- simply don't share American suburban views on acceptable ways to treat animals. And we shouldn't be surprised. Humans around the world and even inside the US don't even agree on how we should treat other humans. 

[aubiefifty 16,753]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Good post. I'll only say to the last sentence... if it doesn't say the word "humanely" on the package, then it was probably pretty inhumane. There is a lot of other verbiage meant to suggest humane conditions but don't mean that at all. "Outdoor access", for instance, can just mean that there's a window in the barn.

if you know of any of the things to look for i am wide open. i am pre diabetic so if i dropped meat i would staqrve...........

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Good post fifty. I own two pitbulls, both rescues. They do indeed love unconditionally. I do worry that recent enacted laws are not being enforced enough. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

if you know of any of the things to look for i am wide open. i am pre diabetic so if i dropped meat i would staqrve...........

Not sure what's available where you are but White Oak Pastures out of GA is rock solid and sold in grocery stores. 

[aubiefifty 16,753]

18 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Good post fifty. I own two pitbulls, both rescues. They do indeed love unconditionally. I do worry that recent enacted laws are not being enforced enough. 

my last pit was dixie i got from my last ex. man she was my heart. i would take her for rides and get her a cheeseburger and a small vanilla cone. she was so gentle but she could be a badass if needed. i still tear up over her after two years christmas eve.........

[aubiefifty 16,753]

17 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Not sure what's available where you are but White Oak Pastures out of GA is rock solid and sold in grocery stores. 

i am in anniston.........

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Good post fifty. I own two pitbulls, both rescues. They do indeed love unconditionally. I do worry that recent enacted laws are not being enforced enough. 

"Pibbles" are pretty much always available as rescues. People who aren't familiar with them are afraid of them and they are hard to adopt out.  But my wife and are huge fans and we've had a number of them (along with boxers).  

But they are not for everybody. You must be a responsible owner. (For example, never let them off leash in a dog park.) 

They aren't vicious toward humans at all - at least if they haven't been abused - but you certainly don't want to allow them to get into a fight with another dog, as they do most certainly have a serious"fighting gear".  (See "break stick".)

None of the Pibbles I have owned have been "dog aggressive" and got along just fine with other dogs.  But if someone else's dog starts something, your Pibble will finish it a definitive way. (And you know who will be blamed.)

Lots of good books on "Pibbles".  Two of my favorites (by the same author):

"The Lost Dogs: Michael Vick's Dogs and Their Tale of Rescue and Redemption", by Jim Gorant

"Wallace: The Underdog Who Conquered A Sport, Saved a Marriage, and Championed Pit Bulls - One Flying Disc at a Time" Jim Gorant

 

 

[sandyclawedtiger 206]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i am in anniston.........

I'm diabetic and a meat cutter for Publix.(shameless plug). Working tonight and will make a small list of things and pm you. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

None of the Pibbles I have owned have been "dog aggressive" and got along just fine with other dogs.  But if someone else's dog starts something, your Pibble will finish it a definitive way. (And you know who will be blamed.)

Unfortunately, I've known several pit bulls for years who suddenly became dog aggressive later in life. One of my best friends is perhaps the top dog trainer in ATL and he won't work with them. Too many "accidents". Another friend got put in the hospital by one he'd rescued a few months prior. Dog just freaked out on him and tore him up. 

While it is noble to rescue them, they do love like no other breed, and most of them are probably okay, I hope that somehow it stops being profitable to breed them.

[homersapien 11,361]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Unfortunately, I've known several pit bulls for years who suddenly became dog aggressive later in life. One of my best friends is perhaps the top dog trainer in ATL and he won't work with them. Too many "accidents". Another friend got put in the hospital by one he'd rescued a few months prior. Dog just freaked out on him and tore him up. 

While it is noble to rescue them, they do love like no other breed, and most of them are probably okay, I hope that somehow it stops being profitable to breed them.

I detest people who breed dogs for profit, especially pit bulls.

I don't think much of people who purchase such dogs either.  They're too many dogs - of all types - who need rescue.

[McLoofus 35,182]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I detest people who breed dogs for profit, especially pit bulls.

I don't think much of people who purchase such dogs either.  They're too many dogs - of all types - who need rescue.

Married into a pug. Truly the most glorious dog who ever lived (as I know many reading this will rightfully say about one of their own). It makes me extremely sad that pugs, English bulldogs, etc continue to be bred.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

54 minutes ago, homersapien said:

"The Lost Dogs: Michael Vick's Dogs and Their Tale of Rescue and Redemption", by Jim Gorant

"Wallace: The Underdog Who Conquered A Sport, Saved a Marriage, and Championed Pit Bulls - One Flying Disc at a Time" Jim Gorant

I will certainly look into. Thanks.

[homersapien 11,361]

3 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I will certainly look into. Thanks.

In case you haven't looked, there are a lot of good websites and forums for pit bulls also.