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Play the season without fans at the stadium


doc4aday

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This is a tough issue all around. Part of me is concerned with opening up to fast except in areas where it makes sense. On the other hand I don't understand why Walmart, Target, Lowes, and other big boys can stay open but others like churches and the little businesses can't. More common sense is needed rather than gov't restrictions.

As far as the OP topic is concerned, I've ordered my season tickets but no way would I go to a game with 86,000 others unless things improve dramatically. Can you imagine being in the crowd trying to go through a gate?

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17 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

This is a tough issue all around. Part of me is concerned with opening up to fast except in areas where it makes sense. On the other hand I don't understand why Walmart, Target, Lowes, and other big boys can stay open but others like churches and the little businesses can't.  More common sense is needed rather than gov't restrictions.

Throughout this whole ordeal  some of the things that are open or opening,  and the things forced closed seem to go against all logic.   

heck in my sate  gambling establishments, massage parlors and bath houses have opened up while some needed  mom and pop shops are still close.   Not sure how sanitary a massage parlor is even without corona.   How essential is a massage parlor for anything?  I guess there are some injured or sick customers that need a message,  but how many could that possibly be?   and gambling?   

 

How about the "shorten  the hours we are open to be safer."   who thought of that?  I can see it for  a 24 hour store that needs to clean/disinfect at night, but come on.  

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JMHO. Everything needs to open starting NOW. Do it as safely as possible. Our economy crashing will cause more death than the virus. Again JMHO 

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On 5/18/2020 at 8:19 AM, Quietmaninthecorner said:

Please explain to me how someone that is properly isolated can get any  virus? 

 

 

save me time?  THERE AREN'T ANY?????       LMAO,   maybe you should spend some time (just a few seconds) and actually look up the propaganda  and misinformation you are spewing.   It sounds like your are just regurgitating what Bubba told you at the booby trap from back in march.  There are literally dozens of reports like this across the country...

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/kroger-meijer-report-deaths-of-grocery-store-workers-in-michigan-from-coronavirus.html

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/costco-walmart-among-grocery-store-covid-19-outbreaks/73-bde0be4d-e1e3-41f1-a56d-8cf2356d6dde

https://www.livescience.com/how-coronavirus-spreads-grocery-stores.html

https://patch.com/connecticut/across-ct/ct-grocery-store-employee-dies-coronavirus-mourned

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grocery-store-workers-first-responders-essential-workers-coronavirus/

https://www.businessinsider.com./grocery-store-worker-deaths-from-coronavirus-at-least-30-nationwide-2020-4

https://www.thedailybeast.com/grocery-stores-report-coronavirus-deaths-in-recent-weeks

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/costco-walmart-among-grocery-store-covid-19-outbreaks/73-bde0be4d-e1e3-41f1-a56d-8cf2356d6dde

 

But I see the problem now,   your tunnel vision that death is the only negative outcome is narrow and dangerous.   It is NOT  just about older people, and it is NOT just about death. Recovery is only half the battle. long term issues are not dependent on the severity of the disease, comorbidity or age.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-kidney/kidney-injury-seen-in-more-than-a-third-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-u-s-study-idUSKBN22Q0U7?utm_source=reddit.com

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-19-s-health-effects-can-last-long-after-virus-is-gone

https://www.al.com/news/2020/05/small-number-of-alabama-children-have-rare-condition-linked-to-coronavirus.html?utm_source=reddit.com

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52662065

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21244171/stroke-coronavirus-symptoms-blood-clots

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-stroke-blood-clots

https://www.newsweek.com/scans-covid-19-patients-reveal-what-coronavirus-can-do-your-bowel-1503367

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/05/what-kawasaki-disease-linked-coronavirus/3083545001/

https://newsfeeds.media/is-kawasaki-disease-contagious-and-can-adults-get-it/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-kawasaki-disease-contagious-and-can-adults-get-it

https://www.ft.com/content/be7e66c0-1243-45dd-829f-8b192c18acff

https://www.foxnews.com/health/even-after-respiratory-symptoms-fade-coronavirus-victims-face-new-danger

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/8/21251899/coronavirus-long-term-effects-symptoms

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-found-in-******-of-young-men-with-covid-19-138059

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-covid-patients-rehabilitation-recovery-illinois-20200508-umnznrdvifc47izvjzcyy5nf4u-story.html

Nice anecdotes.  Nothing empirical and nothing that shows a cause between working at the location and disease.  Just, some folks that happen to work at a Walmart or a grocery store had it; and some that showed no line to coronavirus; just they happen to die working at a WMT.  Given that Walmart and grocery stores employ over 4m people, you've got to do better than this. Again, if if was actually spreading that easily  at these  locations, everyone in these stores would have gotten it and it would have spun out of control in the effected communities.  Nice try.  

Had Hong Kong flu when I was in 6th grade.  Missed  a 4 days of school at home.   Lived in Japan and traveled extensively in China and thru Singapore during SARS back in 2003; taking logical precautions.   Someone that is immuno compromised or over 75 or both has a rational reason to want to stay isolated currently.  I'm not dragging my 91 year old Mom around every where during this.   Extending those logical fears to those with little chance, very little chance; of experiencing an issue is un-American and immoral.   Statistically speaking, I've lived 80% of my life.  Expecting my kids and grandkids to not live theirs is incredibly selfish and irresponsible.  

Play the games.

36m people are out of work....during the Fin Crisis a total of 8.8m went unemployed over 8 quarters.  This is 4.5x that and rising.  Of the 36m, 86% of those make less than  $40k per year and have basically $0 savings.  40% of US households will have real significant financial problems...over half of those say they will likely have to sell things to get buy.  22% of the newly unemployed do not think their jobs are coming back; that creates a permanent class of nearly 8m unemployed....and that assumes the other 78% are correct...which given the pace of permanent closings seems unlikely.   41% of Americans say their incomes have gone down since this started; a combination of job losses and hours cut back.  Wow.  4 in 10 families have had income reductions...but rents and living didn't get cheaper.  Experience in the financial crisis shows it took a full 6 years for employment to return; after a much less deep shock.  Same for income gains.  And then there's the impact of debt...public and private.  The Fed balance sheet is exploding; expected to hit $12T; up from $4T just prior to all this.  What happens when all the Corp and Municipal bonds/debt rollover and reflect the new "normal" (I hate that ******* term); the new risk.  This is a classic debt spiral shaping up.  This is a self inflicted wound...Play the games.

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U. South Carolina announcing students at  school plans.  Nothing about sports yet.  Interesting strategy.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/second-wave-coronavirus-university-of-south-carolina-trnd/index.html

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51 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Nice anecdotes.  Nothing empirical and nothing that shows a cause between working at the location and disease.  Just, some folks that happen to work at a Walmart or a grocery store had it; and some that showed no line to Wuhan flu; just they happen to die working at a WMT.  Given that Walmart and grocery stores employ over 4m people, you've got to do better than this. Again, if if was actually spreading that easily  at these  locations, everyone in these stores would have gotten it and it would have spun out of control in the effected communities.  Nice try.  

 

Are you a Russian propaganda bot?    You refuse to answer questions that  you can not refute,   and obviously do not read the proof when someone answers your questions.  

You asked for examples of it spreading in public work places.   Grocery stores was the answer.  You said I have no proof.  I responded with multiple links Showing the many grocery store outbreaks.  you respond snidely with no proof,  and then try to change the topic.  You throw out an opinion that you will NEVER have ANY proof of. You cannot prove a negative.  You cannot prove the virus is not transferring in grocery stores.    But that is your argument.  Even tho any logical person can see the relationship of  a work place and transfer. There are numbers to prove it. read the links  those are just a few of the examples you can find on the net. 

 

Work place and transfer are related in grocery stores similar to  the meat packing plants and that barber in new York that gave it to 30 people before he died. .  Viruses spread through contact and close proximity..    It is not even debatable. 

 

Good  day.    

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34 minutes ago, japantiger said:

I'm not dragging my 91 year old Mom around every where during this.   Extending those logical fears to those with little chance, very little chance; of experiencing an issue is un-American and immoral.   Statistically speaking, I've lived 80% of my life.  Expecting my kids and grandkids to not live theirs is incredibly selfish and irresponsible.  

Do you really not understand how a society where a preponderance of people are either walking around sick or as asymptomatic carriers endangers people at risk, even if those people are self isolating as much as feasible? You might not be dragging your 91 year old mother around everywhere, but she still has to eat. She has to get her groceries from somewhere, which means she can’t be perfectly contained. If she falls, she may have to go to the hospital, meaning she isn’t perfectly contained. If she’s like many other 91 year olds and needs an in-house caretaker, then she isn’t perfectly contained. It is very hard for anyone to live in perfect isolation, especially those most at risk. 
 

And it’s not just 91 year old moms that we’re talking about. There are many of at risk people of working age, plenty of whom are “essential” and now having to chose between their health or their livelihood. It shouldn’t be hard to see how a population with rampant infection is more dangerous for them and our 91 year old moms than one that isn’t. 
 

Economic concerns a real, shouldn’t be taken lightly, and you won’t hear me dismiss them. Lockdowns, partial and otherwise, have hurt people and that is extremely unfortunate. We should be doing everything we can as a society to help those people who have been put in this situations through no fault of their own. We are a wealthy enough country to do that if we are willing to. Stimulus checks were a great start in that regard. But the best thing we can do get the actual pandemic under control as quickly as possible so that we can reopen as quickly and with as few restrictions as possible. That happens by stamping out the disease by eliminating transmission (hard to do this late in the game), coming up with a vaccine (hopefully we will have one sometime early next year) or putting in place systems to reduce transmission by locating and selective quarantining the infected. Fortunately, we have a good idea how to do that, through massive amounts of testing and contact tracing. Unfortunately, we have been ineffective in stockpiling tests or creating large scale protocols for contact tracing. Make of that reality whatever you will. 
 

I get that you want to open up. I want to open up to, but I want to do safely even if that doesn’t mean doing it as quickly as either of us would like.   

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16 hours ago, beaumak said:

i dont know, but think about this. what happens when the influenza comes back out next season with, my guess, very little resources have been used on it so far these months? and not many will be in the coming summer months when typically the medical world would be creating the next vaccine against it?

everybody has seemed to forgotten that there are other ailments, diseases, conditions, syndromes, infections, viruses, etc.. And to boot you are allowed to have more than one at the same time. who knows if the medical world is properly defining this COVID. what if someone had the flu and COVID? you know that is a possibility. if that person dies, which one do you attribute it to??

Or think about someone with AIDS, this person contracts COVID. Then dies. Did AIDS do it, or COVID? What will the hospital coroner write down? Seems like today they would write down COVID. Or better yet what about a patient with stage 4 terminal lung cancer due to smoking, right? Again look over shoulder, its COVID? 

Or, you are orca fat, horrible blood pressure, heart disease, etc. test positive for COVID. I guess its COVID again.

I might have added more than i should for examples to ponder for as far as indicators, point is we need to live our lives. And what action do you speak of? 

 

I’m on mobile, so I won’t be able to give this post the full justification it requires but

1. if you have a morbid disease, and have been largely managing it...and it’s exasperated (heart disease, lung failure, etc etc), then what killed you is what killed you. If it was HERE at one point. And rose to HERE! in a week (or less, as it’s done for some), then what killed you was the new stimuli added to your body. You could drop dead at any point with heart disease, but it’s not like scientist and doctors don’t have bodies and bodies of evidence showing how quickly this disease accelerates the inflammation in the body (for those who go out this way). I have never understood this talking point, if you had underlying heart disease, but then also drunk constantly, doctors would signify that the drinking amplified your heart disease. You would’ve almost certainly died later if the alcohol wasn’t there. And people are generally okay with that explanation. But if it’s corona, we gotta bring in pseudo sciences and unaccredited individuals doubting medical professionals. I don’t get it 

2. The flu is battled the way it is bc it’s a known quantity, we have the tools we have against it, we try to gradually get better against it every new season. As of now, it appears we’re at our glass ceiling with how to treat the flu. The novel (read: NOVEL) coronavirus is NOT a known quantity. It is something that we don’t know if we can form a vaccine for (in the measles sense), we don’t know how long the vaccine will last, we don’t know a lot about it...so why wouldn’t resources be dedicated towards something that we don’t know if we can handle one way or the other? One thing we do know, this s*** would cripple a population far faster than the flu if nothing was done (https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-deaths-vs-flu-deaths.html), and thats really all you’d need to know for why it’s necessary to figure out this balance between safety and “living normally”

 

As for the action, some people, in this very thread alone, believe that since our methods have helped not bludgeon hospitals and mortalities didn’t reach incomprehensible numbers, that this was very overblown and that we should have everything back. Unless deaths are sky high, action shouldn’t be taken. 

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I'm not paying 25, 30 or more to watch Auburn on PPV. If their not on the ESPN family or CBS or ABC, then I guess I'll listen to the games on the radio.

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On 5/18/2020 at 3:58 PM, Quietmaninthecorner said:

Are you a Russian propaganda bot?    You refuse to answer questions that  you can not refute,   and obviously do not read the proof when someone answers your questions.  

You asked for examples of it spreading in public work places.   Grocery stores was the answer.  You said I have no proof.  I responded with multiple links Showing the many grocery store outbreaks.  you respond snidely with no proof,  and then try to change the topic.  You throw out an opinion that you will NEVER have ANY proof of. You cannot prove a negative.  You cannot prove the virus is not transferring in grocery stores.    But that is your argument.  Even tho any logical person can see the relationship of  a work place and transfer. There are numbers to prove it. read the links  those are just a few of the examples you can find on the net. 

 

Work place and transfer are related in grocery stores similar to  the meat packing plants and that barber in new York that gave it to 30 people before he died. .  Viruses spread through contact and close proximity..    It is not even debatable. 

 

Good  day.    

You showed anecdotal info on people that happened to work at a grocery story that came down with coronavirus (the full sum of all your examples totals less than 150 by the way on a population of over 4m people that work in the grocery business; well, in the top 15 grocers nationally, the full number is closer to 6m).  That is not what you claim.  I don't have to prove that it is not transferring.  You are doing that for me with your inability to provide a source that says it is.   And it is not similar to a meat packing plant.  I don't know of any grocery store that operates like a meat packing plant.  Provide me one of those examples as well.  This is operated more like a Chinese wet market. 

http://inthesetimes.com/images/uploads/nebraska-meat-packing510.jpg

 

And man, you guys are still getting all exorcised about Russia, huh.  Maybe this thread is just too stressful for you.  

Play the games.

 

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Too much drama here have a laugh!

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5 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

How about the "shorten  the hours we are open to be safer."   who thought of that?  I can see it for  a 24 hour store

Basically due to far less sales in a lot of stores who do not sell essential items, reduction in expenses must be a concern. Shorter operating hours allow reduced man-hours to help reduce labor costs. The idea being that if people want your product they'll come when your open, like the old days when stores closed at 6 pm and all day Sunday and nobody went hungry or naked because of it. It wouldn't bother me if things went back to simpler times in that regard anyway, but that's just my opinion. 

The reduced hours also still allows the store employees time to clean the store within the salary budget they have to operate with which is part of the answer to your question. Unfortunately many retailers were forced to make changes to help offset the slow sales. The closing of many stores was only the first blow to non-essential businesses. The fact that many people lost jobs and may be out of work for an extended period of time has many reconsidering things they just don't have to have anymore. Sorry for the long post. 

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3 hours ago, gr82be said:

Basically due to far less sales in a lot of stores who do not sell essential items, reduction in expenses must be a concern. Shorter operating hours allow reduced man-hours to help reduce labor costs. The idea being that if people want your product they'll come when your open, like the old days when stores closed at 6 pm and all day Sunday and nobody went hungry or naked because of it. It wouldn't bother me if things went back to simpler times in that regard anyway, but that's just my opinion. 

The reduced hours also still allows the store employees time to clean the store within the salary budget they have to operate with which is part of the answer to your question. Unfortunately many retailers were forced to make changes to help offset the slow sales. The closing of many stores was only the first blow to non-essential businesses. The fact that many people lost jobs and may be out of work for an extended period of time has many reconsidering things they just don't have to have anymore. Sorry for the long post. 

Well said.  Excellent answer.    I have not thought of that perspective yet.     I have changed my stance on the shortened hours. 👍

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11 hours ago, DAG said:

Are you self-isolating?  Based on your post, you seem to be gracefully older than some of us. You would be consider in the group of those most at risk.

No, I'm going about my business as usual except for using hand sanitizer as I leave stores. If the employees in a given establishment are wearing masks I wear one too as a courtesy. If they are not, I don't. I don't live in a town and I fish, hike or ride horses for recreation so social distancing isn't something I have to be concerned about. All I miss is the wife and I's once weekly trip to some restaurant. Local ones opened up yesterday, so we'll be heading out this week. Age 77, no underlying health concerns and not worried about the virus. If we get sick, we get sick. The numbers favor not even knowing we were exposed, should we become exposed.

PS: One other thing I miss: Baseball at Plainsman Park. This has been a beautiful Spring, weather-wise. Tanner Burns and Jack Owen were ready to mow 'em down and we're all locked out. Bummer.

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13 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I am isolated. I have zero fear of catching the virus because of it.   My condition is one of the reasons  I research this so hard.  Doctors told me I have 10 years to live,  and in 7,  I would be blind and in a wheelchair.  They told me this 11 years ago.    I am showing them!   9 out of 10 days I can still walk without a cane.   My condition was caused by an average common virus that caused my immune system to have a cytokine storms.  Similar to reports that corona may be linked to happening in CHILDREN.   There is no more painful condition known to man.  Everyday I have pain.  When I have flair ups, EVERY joint in my body swells up huge.  The real pain is when my  one of my organs decides to swell.   My brain will not even let me imagine a child with this condition.    There have been multiple times I prayed for death.  a couple times I was reduced to dog cussing god for not just killing me.    If I can save ONE person from a cytokine storm issues  I will feel my life is complete.     For all I know,  it may be the reason god has''t killed me yet.

It should go without saying that I'm sorry you have such health issues.

 

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9 hours ago, gr82be said:

Basically due to far less sales in a lot of stores who do not sell essential items, reduction in expenses must be a concern. Shorter operating hours allow reduced man-hours to help reduce labor costs. The idea being that if people want your product they'll come when your open, like the old days when stores closed at 6 pm and all day Sunday and nobody went hungry or naked because of it. It wouldn't bother me if things went back to simpler times in that regard anyway, but that's just my opinion. 

The reduced hours also still allows the store employees time to clean the store within the salary budget they have to operate with which is part of the answer to your question. Unfortunately many retailers were forced to make changes to help offset the slow sales. The closing of many stores was only the first blow to non-essential businesses. The fact that many people lost jobs and may be out of work for an extended period of time has many reconsidering things they just don't have to have anymore. Sorry for the long post. 

Long post? .....pffftt. ....amateur....

😁

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Seems like a no-win situation.  Go out get sick or stay home and starve.  Not to mention wonder who's going to pay for the whole country to stay home yet still feed their families if there's nobody working to pay the gov't it's taxes?

It appears to be the Kobiyashi Maru.

 

91Q0AgKj4DL.jpg

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5 hours ago, Mikey said:

No, I'm going about my business as usual except for using hand sanitizer as I leave stores. If the employees in a given establishment are wearing masks I wear one too as a courtesy. If they are not, I don't. I don't live in a town and I fish, hike or ride horses for recreation so social distancing isn't something I have to be concerned about. All I miss is the wife and I's once weekly trip to some restaurant. Local ones opened up yesterday, so we'll be heading out this week. Age 77, no underlying health concerns and not worried about the virus. If we get sick, we get sick. The numbers favor not even knowing we were exposed, should we become exposed.

PS: One other thing I miss: Baseball at Plainsman Park. This has been a beautiful Spring, weather-wise. Tanner Burns and Jack Owen were ready to mow 'em down and we're all locked out. Bummer.

Dude, wear a mask. It costs you nothing. While the mask offers you some protection, it’s main feature is that it protects other should you become infected. You yourself just said there is a good chance that if you were, you might not even know it. Not wearing a mask isn’t brave, it’s incredibly selfish. 

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i just posted an article fresh off the press about kemp in jawja. they  lied about the numbers. i posted the article in smack talk. and tejas just had their biggest spike since this stuff began a couple of days ago.....

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1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i just posted an article fresh off the press about kemp in jawja. they  lied about the numbers. i posted the article in smack talk. and tejas just had their biggest spike since this stuff began a couple of days ago.....

among manipulating the numbers, this is the chart Georgia was using to promote their opening.   Look closely to see the scam.

 

 

EXwDzLuWoAAdwEN.jpeg

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Think the question in Georgia (and any state for that matter) is are the hospitals able to handle the cases? I thought that was the primary reason for the shut down. I do not live in the area so not sure if Georgia is getting people from other states coming over, but where I live, we are next to a state where they never completely shut down and many were crossing over to do things they were not allowed to do in their own state. Neither state has high numbers Or ever came close to having overrun hospitals.  I feel cases will go up. The question is can the health care system handle them?

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2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i just posted an article fresh off the press about kemp in jawja. they  lied about the numbers. i posted the article in smack talk. and tejas just had their biggest spike since this stuff began a couple of days ago.....

I live in TX Fifty.  "total cases are up" because testing is thru the roof.  May to date has 330k tests; March and April combined had 330k tests...but you knew that, right; because you followed thru and conducted a thorough analysis rather than looking for the cheap "shock" headline.  So you also know that hospitalizations are down as well as case % (that is testing/positives)...down to 3% now; it was 14% in April.  This is why TX is open for business. 

One area was delayed moving to phase 2 for another week due to numbers being higher than expected.  Using actual info to make decisions.  Seems like a prudent reaction.  

Retail back open, restaurants now at 50%; haircuts happening, youth sports back on, baseball and basketball OKd to start back; sans audience...gyms open Friday; my daughter plans to be at hers.  Still too slow in my view; but a sensible response given the abounding hysteria.    

Looking forward to a great Memorial Day week.  My oldest son Commissions tomorrow....God Bless him; and all those young 2nd Lt's we've gotten to know these last 4 years.   Last driven duck hunt of the season Sat morning, fishing and spending Saturday afternoon kayaking down the Guadalupe with the family.  Eating out in a restaurant with other human beings pretty much every meal from Wed thru Sun.  Play the games...

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