Trump’s assault on truth takes an ugly new turn

[wdefromtx 3,159]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Wait...You had a post critical of Homey deleted? I would say I was shocked, but I try not to lie. SSDD.

Ironic Huh? An assault on the truth.......🤣🤣

[homersapien 11,362]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Prime example of some of you guys thoughts being a bit scary.

Your hero:

[DKW 86 7,419]

15 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

So speaks the master of failed remarks.

 

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Okay, @DKW 86 is understandably upset I didn’t recognize his superior mastery in this area. 😉

So you quoted yourself, about another poster, and it is about myself? How?Exactly?

[DKW 86 7,419]

32 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Ironic Huh? An assault on the truth.......🤣🤣

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

Nah that's a strawman. 

Hell, it's dubious to assume the Nazi's even set the Reichstag fire. It's quite possible the communists did it and Hitler simply turned the situation to his advantage. The communists in Germany were causing a lot of property damage in those days, so the accusation was believable.

No you handwaved a legitimate comparison. 

Hitler probably isn't the best of the early fascist models to look at. I would go with Mussolini, and even a cursory comparison will reveal some striking similarities. Trump and his movement, Trumpism, check most of the boxes for the nascent fascist movement. 

And this isn't exclusive to America. A lot of these ultra-nationalist, cult-of-personality types gaining a lot of influence worldwide right now. Bolsonaro in Brazil, Orban in Hungary, Erdogan in Turkey, Duterte in the Phillipines. In England you have Farage and UKIP (thankfully marginalized since #brexit came to pass and most of their voters returned to the conservative fold), in France you have Le Pen and her Front National, and in the Netherlands you have Wilders and his Party for Freedom. 

And like all your new points, are pretty much irrelevant to the Hitler Comparison. He burnt the Reichstag and Dissolved the Constitution, that was the comparison. I was rightly mocking the extremely flawed comparison.

[SaltyTiger 7,782]

14 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Your hero:

Jmo but not one of his better decisions. Of course I do not understand what makes you guys that hold yourself in such high esteem say and do a lot of things.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

The Bishop may need to check and see who actually owns that church

This Bishop really has to ask herself some deep questions.  After stating Trump wasn’t invited, did she invite the rioters the night before?  Since when do you have to be invited to go to church for any reason?  She seems to have a political agenda and there needs to be a separation of church and state.  If it works in one direction it should work in the other direction.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This Bishop really has to ask herself some deep questions.  After stating Trump wasn’t invited, did she invite the rioters the night before?  Since when do you have to be invited to go to church for any reason?  She seems to have a political agenda and there needs to be a separation of church and state.  If it works in one direction it should work in the other direction.

When you forcibly remove the employees you should probably give a heads up. You guys are amazing. Had any Democrat pulled this crap you’d be calling for an armed rebellion.

[homersapien 11,362]

........The president’s call for military deployments against protesters was not some random Trumpian effusion. He and his advisers and supporters are building a legal justification for deploying troops on American streets. Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper advised the nation’s governors to “dominate the battlespace,” by which he meant American cities. Prominent Republican Sen. Tom Cotton (Ark.), a close Trump ally and presidential aspirant, called for deploying “the 10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne, 1st Cav, 3rd Infantry — whatever it takes,” against the “insurrectionists,” a deliberate reference to the Insurrection Act of 1807, which gives the president broad powers to deploy federal troops. Trump tweeted that Cotton’s suggestions were “100% Correct.” This is the context in which Milley appeared with the president in his battle fatigues. It is the context in which a U.S. Army helicopter descended to rooftop level in Washington’s Chinatown hours later, frightening and scattering protesters in a “show of force” that snapped trees and nearly injured the fleeing civilians.

Dictators rule by controlling the “power ministries”: the domestic police and intelligence services, foreign intelligence services, and armed forces. U.S. democracy has been sustained by a strong tradition of ensuring that the power ministries serve the Constitution and the broader interests of the American people, not the political and personal interests of the individual in the White House.

This has been a tradition, however, not an ironclad guarantee. The Founders gave the executive immense powers to ensure that the young nation could survive in a dangerous world. They knew these powers carried immense dangers; that was one reason they added the impeachment clause to allow the removal of a president not only for violating the laws but also for legally abusing the great powers of the office. Mostly they counted on other factors to check the president: the mutual jealousy of the branches, especially Congress; the vigilance of the people (“a republic if you can keep it”); and the devotion of elected officials, including the president and Cabinet officers, to the spirit of democracy......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-mark-milley-striding-behind-trump-through-lafayette-square-was-so-troubling/2020/06/02/81ef5388-a503-11ea-b473-04905b1af82b_story.html

 

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

9 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

When you forcibly remove the employees you should probably give a heads up. You guys are amazing. Had any Democrat pulled this crap you’d be calling for an armed rebellion.

I was talking more about the Bishop being political than what Trump did, but you can have your own agenda. Biden gave a totally pandering speech yesterday and I didn’t say a word. 

[homersapien 11,362]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/bishop-budde-on-trumps-inflammatory-rhetoric-and-how-he-can-help-the-nation-heal

 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I was talking more about the Bishop being political than what Trump did, but you can have your own agenda. Biden gave a totally pandering speech yesterday and I didn’t say a word. 

The Bishop was protecting the sanctity of their church. If you can’t get that, you’re probably too hopelessly inculcated in the Trump cult.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

The Bishop was protecting the sanctity of their church. If you can’t get that, you’re probably too hopelessly inculcated in the Trump cult.

Why didn’t she protect the sanctity of her church the nigh before?  That’s just her being political, which should be beneath her. Really doesn’t have anything to do with Trump or a cult.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Why didn’t she protect the sanctity of her church the nigh before?  That’s just her being political, which should be beneath her. Really doesn’t have anything to do with Trump or a cult.

Good Lord, you’re dense as a rock.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Good Lord, you’re dense as a rock.

Why, because I don’t see your perspective?  I could say the same thing about you.

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

........The president’s call for military deployments against protesters was not some random Trumpian effusion. He and his advisers and supporters are building a legal justification for deploying troops on American streets. Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper advised the nation’s governors to “dominate the battlespace,” by which he meant American cities. Prominent Republican Sen. Tom Cotton (Ark.), a close Trump ally and presidential aspirant, called for deploying “the 10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne, 1st Cav, 3rd Infantry — whatever it takes,” against the “insurrectionists,” a deliberate reference to the Insurrection Act of 1807, which gives the president broad powers to deploy federal troops. Trump tweeted that Cotton’s suggestions were “100% Correct.” This is the context in which Milley appeared with the president in his battle fatigues. It is the context in which a U.S. Army helicopter descended to rooftop level in Washington’s Chinatown hours later, frightening and scattering protesters in a “show of force” that snapped trees and nearly injured the fleeing civilians.

Dictators rule by controlling the “power ministries”: the domestic police and intelligence services, foreign intelligence services, and armed forces. U.S. democracy has been sustained by a strong tradition of ensuring that the power ministries serve the Constitution and the broader interests of the American people, not the political and personal interests of the individual in the White House.

This has been a tradition, however, not an ironclad guarantee. The Founders gave the executive immense powers to ensure that the young nation could survive in a dangerous world. They knew these powers carried immense dangers; that was one reason they added the impeachment clause to allow the removal of a president not only for violating the laws but also for legally abusing the great powers of the office. Mostly they counted on other factors to check the president: the mutual jealousy of the branches, especially Congress; the vigilance of the people (“a republic if you can keep it”); and the devotion of elected officials, including the president and Cabinet officers, to the spirit of democracy......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-mark-milley-striding-behind-trump-through-lafayette-square-was-so-troubling/2020/06/02/81ef5388-a503-11ea-b473-04905b1af82b_story.html

Please stop... . These hysterical comparisons are just crazy.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

56 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Why, because I don’t see your perspective?  I could say the same thing about you.

Your moronic “perspective” is that if the bishop didn’t personally fend off a pack of vandals, she can’t complain about Trump. I’d say that’s objectively moronic.

[homersapien 11,362]

Trump could have dropped that bible and pissed on it and there are some on this forum that would continue to defend him.

[TexasTiger 12,828]

Just now, homersapien said:

Trump could have dropped that bible and pissed on it and there are some on this forum that would continue to defend him.

They’d have said that Bible had it coming.

[homersapien 11,362]

• https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/bishop-budde-on-trumps-inflammatory-rhetoric-and-how-he-can-help-the-nation-heal

   

  Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  It was a — it was a confluence of events in the very short period of time when the images of the president following the dispersal of the crowds that you mentioned, following his extremely inflammatory, to my ears, remarks in the Rose Garden, and then bringing himself and his entourage into our sacred space, using it as a backdrop, and holding the Bible, as if to put on the mantle of religious authority or blessing of what he had just said and done.

  And I felt it was urgent to remove that association as quickly as possible and to state our position in faithfulness to the Gospel as we understand it.

• Judy Woodruff:

  The White House view on this, Bishop Budde, has been that what happened at the church the night before, the fire being set there, was unacceptable, and the president wanted to make a statement about that.

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  Well, he made no statement, Judy. And he didn't come to pray. He didn't come to offer his condolences to the grieving families that are struggling with the weight of loss in this country.

  He didn't offer hope or consolation to the nation in search of it. And he said nothing to the officials there about the fire. It was a — there was no conversation whatsoever. It was just simply a symbolic gesture on his part.

  And I have to say that even — we are upset about the fire as well, but that is not our primary focus. Our primary focus is the reason behind — the fundamental reasons behind the protests in our country right now.

• Judy Woodruff:

  I see today that the president's counselor, Kellyanne Conway, is saying for people to question what the president did, to call it a photo-op or a photo opportunity is to question his faith.

  Is that what you're doing? Are you questioning the president's faith?

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  No, I'm challenging his actions.

  And I am saying to him and to all who will listen that the Gospel of Jesus and the teachings of the Scripture are antithetical to the messages that he is communicating and the way he is responding to people in this moment, and that there is no spiritual mantle of authority for the actions that he had just moments before said that he would take.

• Judy Woodruff:

  You told The Washington Post yesterday — and I'm quoting — "Everything this president has said and done is to inflame violence. We need moral leadership, and he's done everything to divide us."

  Is there any way to begin to heal this breach that you're describing?

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  Well, we see examples of people attempting that across the country, the police officials and officers who are moving into the crowds to speak to them, the people who are acknowledging pain and seeking to make fundamental change for the good of the nation, and in particular for the for the safety and dignity of black and brown people in this country.

  So, yes, there are any number of steps that any one of us can make, including the president, to heal the breach. But it isn't — it isn't by inflaming emotions. It's trying to bring them down and trying to offer a word of unity, rather than division.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And what would that look like? I mean, what tangibly needs to be said and needs to be done right now, do you believe?

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  Well, I — listening to the people that I speak to who are making their way to protests across this country, including my own children, there is a deep desire for the fundamental issues at stake brought to light by the murderous death of George Floyd and the countless others that we have witnessed in this long string of violence against black and brown people, that that needs to be addressed in a systemic, fundamental way in the — from every police department in the country and the vigilante civilian actions that are taken.

  So, that's one thing. The second thing is to address the enormous disparities that have been laid bare by this pandemic, and to say that we will work for meaningful change and, finally, Judy, to speak a word of hope to rising generations, that they do indeed have a future, when so much has been taken from them so quickly.

• Judy Woodruff:

  How big a divide, though, Bishop Budde, is there inside faith, the faith — the community of faith in this country?

  I was reading just a few minutes ago a comment from an evangelical pastor in South Carolina. His name is Mark Burns. He said, "Jesus welcomes all," referring back to the president going to the church, that he shouldn't have needed permission to go there, in other words, saying, this is a moment to welcome everyone.

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  Well, if the president had come to pray, if the president had come to greet us in the name of the country and to offer an encouraging word, that would have been one thing.

  But that's not what he did. That's not what he did. And he is always welcome to come and pray. He is always welcome to be part of the worshiping body, but not to use the mantle of the church to his political — to communicate a political message.

  And I think that, to me, in addition to, in addition to seeming to stoke the flames of anger and of a punitive response to what's happening in the country, I think, is shortsighted and not the moral leadership we need.

• Judy Woodruff:

  And one last thing.

  Have you been in direct contact with the White House about what happened yesterday?

• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  I have not.

  And, in fact, my message, and that of the church, was not directed to the president, but to the American people, and especially to those who were watching with horror of what was happening, both leading up to his remarks and afterwards, that we wanted to separate ourselves from his message and to reaffirm our commitment to nonviolence, to justice, and to the addressing of systemic racism and white supremacy in this country.

  And that was where our focus would be, not in speaking directly with the president himself.

   

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

11 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Your moronic “perspective” is that if the bishop didn’t personally fend off a pack of vandals, she can’t complain about Trump. I’d say that’s objectively moronic.

You really like to put words in other peoples posts.  My questioning the Bishop is about turning the other cheek when it comes to the rioters and going public about her disagreement with Trump. It served her personally, not the church. 

[TexasTiger 12,828]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You really like to put words in other peoples posts.  My questioning the Bishop is about turning the other cheek when it comes to the rioters and going public about her disagreement with Trump. It served her personally, not the church. 

You’re not seeming any less moronic, but keep going.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Thanks to top quoting, I see that the AUJeff of the political forums has yet to say that the Bishop was wrong about what she said.

Never mind the suggestion that she shouldn't hold the President of the United States of America to a higher standard than regular civilians on the street. Especially when they didn't hijack church property for the sole purpose of stealing an implicit and fraudulent endorsement. 

You bottom feeding clowns. Why don't you got outside and enjoy America. It's great again!

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Funny how the self proclaimed "intelligent or informed" people are always the ones to resort to name calling, 

[savorytiger 182]

5 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Wasn’t this church vandalized then night before and boarded up when he stood in front of it? That’s what I read so it’s doubtful he cleared the church.

Before trusting Jesus most people lived a life mocking God. Including all of us. Those of us who trusted Jesus no longer do that. I understand that many of you don’t believe in God or Jesus and as such do not comprehend how people change and how unlikely characters are used by God for His own purposes. No one really expected Paul (Saul) who actively killed Christians to become one.

Pointing out someone’s past behavior is not relevant to what they believe today. 
 

The Bishop may need to check and see who actually owns that church.  I’m sure all of you were just as hard on the Clinton’s when they were attending church and hoisting their Bibles after the truth of the blue dress scandal became known.  

The church was indeed vandalized and boarded up, but the reason I believed the church was cleared was because there are firsthand accounts of what went down: 

 

My post judged Trump's actions on Monday. You think he changed in 2 days?