i am curious so i have a question

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

6 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Non-white Americans have supported racists as long as Americans have supported politicians. They haven't had many alternatives. A lot of otherwise morally upstanding Americans are going to vote for him in November, too. As for it coming out earlier in life, it didn't really matter to the American public whether he was a racist or not until the last few years. Thing is, though, it did come out. Remember the Central Park 5? Anyone who paid attention to that situation already knew damned well he's a racist.

 

Fair points and very true for the past and today. I guess it just surprises me that if he is 100% that person that any would support him. Let alone claim he is America's first black president during Black History Month that one group did.

I will have to go back and read about the CP5. Think that occurred when I was in my teens and as a teen my focus was nowhere near politics/world events lol. Honestly, most of the stuff I remember with him involved hanging out with other celebs of all groups and being super arrogant. I was never fascinated/captivated with him like others (not Trump syndrome accusation stuff, just how people get fascinated with celeb lives).

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Texan4Auburn said:

I guess it just surprises me that if he is 100% that person that any would support him.

I don't know if he's 100% that person. But he's enough that person. 

And we've discussed some of the reasons that, say, hard line Catholics who put in a lot of effort to become legal US residents and/or citizens might grin and bear the "bad hombres" mindset. Or evangelicals who had no problem voting for the Devil himself because it was their best shot at getting an anti-abortion justice on SCOTUS. Or people so blinded by their irrational hate for Hillary that they probably didn't watch the debates just so they could claim plausible deniability later. We all have to make compromises with ourselves to cast a ballot anymore. I'll certainly be making a few when I vote for Biden. 

[bigbird 60,368]

I'm not sure if I'd call him a racist per se because he belittles, demeans, and degrades almost every group of people. I do think he is extremely ethnocentric and from that he has developed a lot of cultural insensitivity and prejudice. 

[aubiefifty 16,697]

1 hour ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Thank you sir and accepted. I apologize if somewhere you honestly thought I was attacking you.

I know you fight hard for your beliefs and I respect that. I want you to, and understand you have the right to be angry about many things. Our communication just crosses up, which is why I had said I just wanted to disengage.

With me, just go after the post and not the poster brother and it's all good.

like i said i love tejas boys and i love texas. i will try to pay closer attention to what i am saying so that it does not appear to mean something i did not intend. and you just showed some class i probably did not deserve. that is why i like mikey. we go at it pretty hard and hardly ever agree but he will always talk to me about other subjects.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm not sure if I'd call him a racist per se because he belittles, demeans, and degrades almost every group of people. I do think he is extremely ethnocentric and from that he hads developed a lot of cultural insensitivity and prejudice. 

I mean, he said that black people are lazy and that he only wanted Jews handling his money instead. 

There might be a semantic argument to be made based on the literal definition of racist- I can't imagine what that might be, but I don't want to dismiss your opinion off hand- but I don't think there is a logical argument to be made that him being a sociopath precludes him from being a racist. I would venture a guess that many racists are also misogynists, anti-Semites and mocking of the disabled.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Okay, yeah, I don't think there is a semantic argument to be made, either. Dude is definitely, 100% a racist.

 

[aubiefifty 16,697]

i copied this from a friend on facebook.

 

 

 

“Name one time Trump was racist," Okay, I will

1973: The Nixon administration sued Trump for refusing to rent to black people.

1980s: Trump's casinos were accused of hiding the black staff when Trump visited.

1989: Trump took out a full-page ad, arguing for the death penalty for a group of black men (The 'Central Park Five'), effectively putting a bounty on their heads, and plaguing them with a lifetime of death threats. He was sued by the Justice Department for discrimination.

1991: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kinds of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day… I think that the [black] guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is.”

1992: Trump's casino was fined $200,000 for transferring black dealers off certain tables to appease racist patrons.

1993: Trump said Native American casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”

2000: Trump ran a series of attack ads against Native American casinos alleging (with no proof) that they were guilty of crimes.

2004: Trump fired a black contestant from 'The Apprentice' for being over-educated.

2010: Trump argued in favor of segregating Muslims in Lower Manhattan.

2011: Birtherism. Trump alleged that Obama was Kenyan based on nothing but skin color. He never apologized nor renounced that claim.

2015 (1): Trump called Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime and drugs" to the U.S.

2015 (2): Trump called for "a ban on all Muslims entering the U.S."

2016 (1): Trump called for a Mexican judge to recuse himself based on nothing other than his race. Paul Ryan said this was “the textbook definition of a racist comment.”

2016 (2): Trump regularly retweeted material from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his campaign.

2016 (3): Trump tweeted a picture alleging that Hillary was Jewish, or controlled by Jewish people.

2016 (4): The Trump campaign adopted Nixon's "Law and Order" rhetoric which was based in racial fearmongering.

2016 (5): Trump told black voters "What do you have to lose?"

2017 (1): Trump asked a reporter to set up a meeting with the black caucus simply because she was black.

2017 (2): "...some very fine people on both sides" said Trump of a violent Nazi rally.

2017 (3): Trump said people from Haiti "all have AIDS" and people from Nigeria would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America.

2018 (1): Trump called Haiti and African countries shitholes.

2018 (2): Trump referenced the trail of tears to mock Elizabeth Warren.

2019: Trump tweeted that four black and brown congresswomen should go back where they came from. Then attacked Elijah Cummings. Then Baltimore. Then Al Sharpton.

2020: Trump called black protesters "THUGS" just days after calling white protesters "very good people." Then he threatened to direct the military to shoot the black protestors in the street.”-Translate Trump

A vote for him is a direct vote against me.”

[bigbird 60,368]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I mean, he said that black people are lazy and that he only wanted Jews handling his money instead. 

There might be a semantic argument to be made based on the literal definition of racist- I can't imagine what that might be, but I don't want to dismiss your opinion off hand- but I don't think there is a logical argument to be made that him being a sociopath precludes him from being a racist. I would venture a guess that many racists are also misogynists, anti-Semites and mocking of the disabled.

That is a very prejudice statement.

It may seem like semantics to you but to me, there is a real difference between the two. 

Prejudice refers to a preconceived idea about a particular group, while racism involves an unequal distribution of power on the basis of race.

https://www.thoughtco.com/racism-vs-prejudice-3026086

 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

That is a very prejudice statement.

It may seem like semantics to you but to me, there is a real difference between the two. 

Prejudice refers to a preconceived idea about a particular group, while racism involves an unequal distribution of power on the basis of race.

https://www.thoughtco.com/racism-vs-prejudice-3026086

 

 

Agree, I have said he has extreme prejudice against just about everyone regardless of race. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That is a very prejudice statement.

It may seem like semantics to you but to me, there is a real difference between the two. 

Prejudice refers to a preconceived idea about a particular group, while racism involves an unequal distribution of power on the basis of race.

https://www.thoughtco.com/racism-vs-prejudice-3026086

Scanned the article. I believe the man 100% meets the dictionary definition of a racist and I think he 100% meets this sociological definition of a racist.

[homersapien 11,352]

"Black people are lazy" is racist by your own standard. (#1 on the list)

I think making such distinctions is rather silly.  It all comes from the same place.

 

[homersapien 11,352]

20 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i copied this from a friend on facebook.

 

 

 

“Name one time Trump was racist," Okay, I will

1973: The Nixon administration sued Trump for refusing to rent to black people.

1980s: Trump's casinos were accused of hiding the black staff when Trump visited.

1989: Trump took out a full-page ad, arguing for the death penalty for a group of black men (The 'Central Park Five'), effectively putting a bounty on their heads, and plaguing them with a lifetime of death threats. He was sued by the Justice Department for discrimination.

1991: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kinds of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day… I think that the [black] guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is.”

1992: Trump's casino was fined $200,000 for transferring black dealers off certain tables to appease racist patrons.

1993: Trump said Native American casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”

2000: Trump ran a series of attack ads against Native American casinos alleging (with no proof) that they were guilty of crimes.

2004: Trump fired a black contestant from 'The Apprentice' for being over-educated.

2010: Trump argued in favor of segregating Muslims in Lower Manhattan.

2011: Birtherism. Trump alleged that Obama was Kenyan based on nothing but skin color. He never apologized nor renounced that claim.

2015 (1): Trump called Mexican immigrants "rapists" who are "bringing crime and drugs" to the U.S.

2015 (2): Trump called for "a ban on all Muslims entering the U.S."

2016 (1): Trump called for a Mexican judge to recuse himself based on nothing other than his race. Paul Ryan said this was “the textbook definition of a racist comment.”

2016 (2): Trump regularly retweeted material from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his campaign.

2016 (3): Trump tweeted a picture alleging that Hillary was Jewish, or controlled by Jewish people.

2016 (4): The Trump campaign adopted Nixon's "Law and Order" rhetoric which was based in racial fearmongering.

2016 (5): Trump told black voters "What do you have to lose?"

2017 (1): Trump asked a reporter to set up a meeting with the black caucus simply because she was black.

2017 (2): "...some very fine people on both sides" said Trump of a violent Nazi rally.

2017 (3): Trump said people from Haiti "all have AIDS" and people from Nigeria would never “go back to their huts” after seeing America.

2018 (1): Trump called Haiti and African countries shitholes.

2018 (2): Trump referenced the trail of tears to mock Elizabeth Warren.

2019: Trump tweeted that four black and brown congresswomen should go back where they came from. Then attacked Elijah Cummings. Then Baltimore. Then Al Sharpton.

2020: Trump called black protesters "THUGS" just days after calling white protesters "very good people." Then he threatened to direct the military to shoot the black protestors in the street.”-Translate Trump

A vote for him is a direct vote against me.”

And don't forget he didn't back off or apologize for his statements on the "Central Park five" even after they were exonerated. 

He either cannot admit a mistake or simply didn't care if they were innocent. - probably both.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

"Black people are lazy" is racist by your own standard. (#1 on the list)

I think making such distinctions is rather silly.  It all comes from the same place.

That was along the lines of my next post on the topic. I don't say this to disparage the question or anybody's response, but how ridiculous is it that we are all arguing and armchair diagnosing the specific brand of insane and evil that our president is.

[bigbird 60,368]

21 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Okay, yeah, I don't think there is a semantic argument to be made, either. Dude is definitely, 100% a racist.

 

Not trying to argue any of this with you, but have had a few trainings on this subject and the differences between the terms with regards to coach/player/family/community relationships.

https://debbyirving.com/are-prejudice-bigotry-and-racism-the-same-thing/

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Scanned the article. I believe the man 100% meets the dictionary definition of a racist and I think he 100% meets this sociological definition of a racist.

That's fine with me, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. Just explaining the differences between the two and applying it to my opinion of his actions/words. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Not trying to argue any of this with you, but have had a few trainings on this subject and the differences between the terms with regards to coach/player/family/community relationships.

https://debbyirving.com/are-prejudice-bigotry-and-racism-the-same-thing/

That's fine with me, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise. Just explaining the differences between the two and applying it to my opinion of his actions/words. 

Fair enough. By the way, I know there are differences in the words. I just am confident that he meets the definitions of each.

[bigbird 60,368]

21 minutes ago, homersapien said:

"Black people are lazy" is racist by your own standard. (#1 on the list)

 

To me, that would be considered an ethnic or national stereotype in same manner as, "Jews are good with money", "Irish are drunks", " the Polish are dumb", "Asians are good at math" or "Mexicans are hard workers".  

Those are stereotypes and prejudices. Those statements are based on culture and not necessarily race...Although they can easily be both a stereotype/prejudice and racist.

[homersapien 11,352]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, that would be considered an ethnic or national stereotype in same manner as, "Jews are good with money", "Irish are drunks", " the Polish are dumb", "all Asians are good at math" or "Mexicans are hard workers".  

Those are stereotypes and prejudices. Those statements are based on culture and not necessarily race.

Well, then you need to modify your list.

I think prejudice is nothing more than a less malignant form of racism.  Like I said, it all comes from the same place.  It's all about viewing people through the lens of race or ethnicity..

[bigbird 60,368]

20 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, then you need to modify your list.

I think prejudice is nothing more than a less malignant form of racism.  Like I said, it all comes from the same place.  It's all about viewing people through the lens of race or ethnicity..

Not necessarily. I'm assuming you are implying that it comes from hate.

Have you ever told a blonde joke? How about an bama/Aggie joke?  Those are stereotypes and prejudices but they aren't based in hate. What about blacks are better at sports, Canadians are nicer than Americans, or Asians are smarter? Those are all prejudices too but they aren't negative and certainly not based in hate. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Race is defined by a person's physical appearance, whereas ethnicity is defined by a person's culture. 

Which is why it is racist to say that black people are lazy. You can infer that he is referring to people who come from American black culture- still racist af by most sensible definitions- but that is not what he said. 

Do you think that if he went to Kenya or Nigeria, he would be open to the idea that the first person he saw would be as hard-working and intelligent as he is?

 

[bigbird 60,368]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Do you think that if he went to Kenya or Nigeria, he would be open to the idea that the first person he saw would be as hard-working and intelligent as he is?

Absolutely not. I've clearly stated he is ethnocentric and culturally insensitive. That doesn't make one a racist.

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Which is why it is racist to say that black people are lazy. You can infer that he is referring to people who come from American black culture- still racist af by most sensible definitions- but that is not what he said. 

To me, Racism and racist try to create an imbalance in the power structure based on race. They attempt to put another group below or keep themselves above them. That statement, while stupid, prejudice, and stereotypical, doesn't attempt to create a power imbalance. That's why, to me, it's prejudicial and not necessarily racist. 

I can absolutely see why you think it is, I just disagree with it. That's okay with me, as I'm sure it's absolutely okay with you too.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I don't believe Trump is a racist. I also don't care for the man in really any way. 

[TitanTiger 20,469]

He's a racist.

No, he's not the Grand Dragon of the KKK, burn a cross in your yard, call you a n****r, snatch a man out of his home in the middle of the night to lynch him for talking sassy to a white woman, 1955 kind of racist.  Very few of those types are around anymore in polite society at least.  That type generally knows better than to out themselves.  But in terms of his attitude, his words, and his actions, it's absolutely racist.  The thing that makes it worse it is that I think he actually believes it when he says he's not.  

Racist and delusional is a quite a combo.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Absolutely not. I've clearly stated he is ethnocentric and culturally insensitive. That doesn't make one a racist.

To me, Racism and racist try to create an imbalance in the power structure based on race. They attempt to put another group below or keep themselves above them. That statement, while stupid, prejudice, and stereotypical, doesn't attempt to create a power imbalance. That's why, to me, it's prejudicial and not necessarily racist. 

I can absolutely see why you think it is, I just disagree with it. That's okay with me, as I'm sure it's absolutely okay with you too.

Every time the man draws a breath it is in service of creating power imbalances. He can't shake a dignitary's hand or pose in a group photo without pulling some sort of half assed Wall Street wannabe power maneuver. But he's not interested in subjugating lazy black people or bad hombres or virulent Chinese people? 

No, I don't agree, and I can't fathom you giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.

[bigbird 60,368]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

No, I don't agree, and I can't fathom you giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.

In what way?

I've said that he is ethnocentric, he's culturally insensitive, prejudice, and routinely stereotypes others. 

Just because I don't agree with or use your definition of racist or racism (just as you don't with mine), it doesn't mean I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

42 minutes ago, bigbird said:

In what way?

I've said that he is ethnocentric, he's culturally insensitive, prejudice, and routinely stereotypes others. 

Just because I don't agree with or use your definition of racist or racism (just as you don't with mine), it doesn't mean I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. 

Just seems like there's effort on your part to not use that particular word. 

Also, I've never once heard or seen racism defined strictly as a behavior and not also as a system of thought. And, as someone who spent his high school years in Montgomery, went to Auburn, moved to Birmingham and then moved to Atlanta, I've been intimately involved in the conversation about racism- mostly the black kind, but several other varieties, too (I've been schooled enough times by your fellow Texicans on white-Latinx relations that I'm learning to be more humble about that; however, I did move back to Montgomery in '88 with a Korean sister) - damn near my entire life, and in the unholy trinity of racially charged southern cities to boot. 

But yeah. Agree to disagree.