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Defund the Police


Auburn85

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/defund-police/612682/

 

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What are the police for? Why are we paying for this?

The death of George Floyd and the egregious, unprovoked acts of police violence at the peaceful protests following his death have raised these urgent questions. Police forces across America need root-to-stem changes—to their internal cultures, training and hiring practices, insurance, and governing regulations. Now a longtime demand from social-justice campaigners has become a rallying cry: Defund the police. This is in one sense a last-resort policy: If cops cannot stop killing people, and black people in particular, society needs fewer of them. But it is also and more urgently a statement of first principles: The country needs to shift financing away from surveillance and punishment, and toward fostering equitable, healthy, and safe communities.

 

As a general point, the United States has an extreme budget commitment to prisons, guns, warplanes, armored vehicles, detention facilities, courts, jails, drones, and patrols—to law and order, meted out discriminately. It has an equally extreme budget commitment to food support, aid for teenage parents, help for the homeless, child care for working families, safe housing, and so on. It feeds the former and starves the latter.

The distinctions are stark when comparing America with its peer nations. The U.S. spends 18.7 percent of its annual output on social programs, compared with 31.2 percent by France and 25.1 percent by Germany. It spends just 0.6 percent of its GDP on benefits for families with children, one-sixth of what Sweden spends and one-third the rich-country average. It spends far more on health care than these other countries, notably, but for a broken, patchy, and inequitable system, one that leaves people dying without care and bankrupts many of those who do get it.

 

Meanwhile, the U.S. spends twice what Europe does on the military. It spends more on domestic public-safety programs than virtually all of its peer nations, double what Singapore spends in GDP terms. It locks up millions, with an incarceration rate many times that of other NATO countries. If the state with the lowest incarceration rate, Massachusetts, were its own country, it would imprison more people than all but nine other nations, among them Turkmenistan.

Does this spending make the country safer than its peers? No. Violent crime has reduced markedly in the past few decades. But America’s murder rate is still higher than the average among member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, and about four times the rate in Canada. The number of rapes, adjusted to the size of the population, is four times higher than it is in Denmark. Robberies are more than twice as common as they are in Poland. Gun violence is rampant; deaths and injuries from firearms among children are considered “a major clinical and public health crisis.” And Americans absorb far, far more violence from police officers. As a Guardianinvestigation demonstrated, the police shot dead 55 people in 24 years in England and Wales. There were more fatal police shootings in the first 24 days of 2015 in the U.S.

 

A thin safety net, an expansive security state: This is the American way. At all levels of government, the country spends roughly double on police, prisons, and courts what it spends on food stamps, welfare, and income supplements. At the federal level, it spendstwice as much on the Pentagon as on assistance programs, and eight times as much on defense as on education. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will ultimately cost something like $6 trillion and policing costs $100 billion a year. But proposals to end homelessness ($20 billion a year), create a universal prekindergarten program ($26 billion a year), reduce the racial wealth gap through baby bonds ($60 billion a year), and eliminate poverty among families with children ($70 billion a year) somehow never get financed. All told, taxpayers spend $31,286 a year on each incarcerated person, and $12,201 a year on every primary- and secondary-school student.

Looking at cities, the numbers are at least sometimes similarly skewed: Oakland spends 41 percent of its general-fund budget on policing, Minneapolis 36 percent, and Houston 35 percent. Cops and courts are not just a cost for local governments, though. Fines, fees, andforfeitures are a major source of revenue, encouraging violent overpolicing and harassment, especially of black neighborhoods and black individuals. In 80 cities and towns across the country, fines and forfeitures account for half of general-fund revenue, a practice particularly prevalent in Louisiana, Georgia, and Texas. A Department of Justice investigation found that in Ferguson, Missouri, the town used the police and the courts as a kind of fundraising office, plugging budget holes with ginned-up traffic tickets and housing-code violations and charges for missed court dates.

 

America badly needs to rethink its priorities for the whole criminal-justice system, with Floyd’s death drawing urgent, national attention to the necessity for police reform. Activists, civil-rights organizations, academics, policy analysts, and politicians have drawn up a sprawling slate of policies that might help end police brutality, eliminate racist policing, improve trust between cops and the communities they work in, and lower crime levels.

A more radical option, one scrawled on cardboard signs and tagged on buildings and flooding social media, is to defund the cops. What might that mean in practice? Not just smaller budgets and fewer officers, though many activists advocate for that. It would mean ending mass incarceration, cash bail, fines-and-fees policing, the war on drugs, and police militarization, as well as getting cops out of schools. It would also mean funding housing-first programs, creating subsidized jobs for the formerly incarcerated, and expanding initiatives to have mental-health professionals and social workers respond to emergency calls.

More broadly, the demand to divest from policing doubles as a call to invest in safety, security, and racial justice. This week, cops in riot gear teargassed teenagers, Humvees patrolled near the White House, and military helicopters buzzed protesters. At the same time, health workers fought COVID-19 wearing reused masks. This is not serving. This is not protecting.

ANNIE LOWREY is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where she covers economic policy

 

 

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Lightfoot of Chicago has already said she won't do it. Stated she has been sent the message that people want more police.

They recently brought in a new Police Chief (use to be in Dallas) and he has demoted many in the force and taken away the independence that some units had. They are focusing on more accountability at the higher levels and listed several things they will be punishing people for over the past week.

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9 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Lightfoot of Chicago has already said she won't do it. Stated she has been sent the message that people want more police.

They recently brought in a new Police Chief (use to be in Dallas) and he has demoted many in the force and taken away the independence that some units had. They are focusing on more accountability at the higher levels and listed several things they will be punishing people for over the past week.

Police Chief Brown is an excellent choice!! 

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On 6/6/2020 at 6:56 PM, I_M4_AU said:

Defund the police, what could go wron

John Oliver did a great rundown last night of what people are calling for.  It's not about taking police completely off the streets.  Its about things like re-appropriating some of the money to things like social services focused on actual reform instead of imprisonment.  Its about mental health funding.  And it's about taking military grade weapons away from the local cops.

Piece on defunding starts around the 5 minute mark.

  

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3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

John Oliver did a great rundown last night of what people are calling for.  It's not about taking police completely off the streets.  Its about things like re-appropriating some of the money to things like social services focused on actual reform instead of imprisonment.  Its about mental health funding.  And it's about taking military grade weapons away from the local cops.

Piece on defunding starts around the 5 minute mark.

  

Was this a ploy to get me to listen to a far left nut job?  I mean, the defunding stuff didn’t start until 27 minutes into his show and he lost a lot of credibility just by his attitude. He definitely has an agenda.  I do agree that one of the biggest deterrent of any reasonable discussion of cultural change in the police department is the union.  Taking away their battle gear would be a big cost saving as they are expensive to maintain and training costs have got to be high for the amount of good they do.

Now that I heard his interpretation of *defund the police* I don’t believe this could be an overnight change that could produce very positive results, it would take years. You are talking about a cultural change along with a fundamental policy change at the some time.  That would be very hard to do.

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Funny that Oliver points to Brown, but his department isn't going to get de-funded. Brown is going in to Chicago and taking responsibility and making the hard moves.

Oliver leaves out some of the best of that speech by Brown also. He reduced force, increased transparency, lowered crime, but don't think he doesn't hold communities and critics responsible also. He isn't afraid to fire an officer and he isn't afraid to hot spot a crime corner (put an officer on it 24/7). He is an advocate of mental health as his own son had issues and was killed in a shootout with police that took multiple lives.

He is gonna have his work cut out for him this summer. Most predict that Chicago is going to be really bad, especially with the impact that COVID and Riots will have on many already economically starved areas.

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Since the death of George Floyd in Minnesota 47 people have been murdered and 193 have been wounded across Chicago. 90% of these deaths and shooting victims were African American.

https://maggionews.com/

 

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59 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Was this a ploy to get me to listen to a far left nut job?  I mean, the defunding stuff didn’t start until 27 minutes into his show and he lost a lot of credibility just by his attitude. He definitely has an agenda.  I do agree that one of the biggest deterrent of any reasonable discussion of cultural change in the police department is the union.  Taking away their battle gear would be a big cost saving as they are expensive to maintain and training costs have got to be high for the amount of good they do.

Now that I heard his interpretation of *defund the police* I don’t believe this could be an overnight change that could produce very positive results, it would take years. You are talking about a cultural change along with a fundamental policy change at the some time.  That would be very hard to do.

Of course Oliver has an agenda.  He's not a journalist.  He's a commentator and the show has schtick of making fun of things.  But there's truth in what he's saying as well, a few points of which you've mentioned above.

And yes, it IS a cultural change.  But that's what is needed, even if it takes time.

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7 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

John Oliver did a great rundown last night of what people are calling for.  It's not about taking police completely off the streets.  Its about things like re-appropriating some of the money to things like social services focused on actual reform instead of imprisonment.  Its about mental health funding.  And it's about taking military grade weapons away from the local cops.

Piece on defunding starts around the 5 minute mark.

  

Black Lives Matter is calling for defunding of police. It is on their website right now. 

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5 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Black Lives Matter is calling for defunding of police. It is on their website right now. 

And your point is what exactly in relation to my post?

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1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

And your point is what exactly in relation to my post?

I’m saying those BLM members in Minneapolis are demanding their mayor abolish the police dept. They told him to get the F out of here at their rally when he said he wasn’t for abolishing the police dept. 

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Don't know about defunding but they definitely have too much authority. They need to be held accountable and need some type of governing body. Everybody that has authority needs somebody to answer too. Checks and balances

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9 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

Black Lives Matter is calling for defunding of police. It is on their website right now. 

oh no the boogie man wants to defund the popo.

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there are several problems. the war against drugs is one. the other is police are often investigating themselves and by doing this over the years have allowed some very bad things that have happened to get little or no punishment. this mentality of how dare you call out the police has to stop. if you are guilty you are guilty. but people try to make you sound like you hate the popo which is bullsh*t. my grandfather was an mp and he drug an escaped and armed convict out of a barn carrying no weapons i do not remember the town and it could have been overseas. he later taught horseback riding for the rotc for auburn university. my opinion is bad cops give the good cops a bad name and it is usually the good cops that pay for bad cops crap.

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16 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

there are several problems. the war against drugs is one. the other is police are often investigating themselves and by doing this over the years have allowed some very bad things that have happened to get little or no punishment. this mentality of how dare you call out the police has to stop. if you are guilty you are guilty. but people try to make you sound like you hate the popo which is bullsh*t. my grandfather was an mp and he drug an escaped and armed convict out of a barn carrying no weapons i do not remember the town and it could have been overseas. he later taught horseback riding for the rotc for auburn university. my opinion is bad cops give the good cops a bad name and it is usually the good cops that pay for bad cops crap.

I am in favor of having special prosecutors come in when any police are charged with a crime. Too often the local DA and office are biased towards the police. I am not in favor of abolishing the police. We have a fantastic local police department that does great work and that is thought highly of by the vast majority of all races in our community. You hate to see evil police that are few and far between tarnish the reputation of the solid work done by the vast majority of the police. 

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41 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

oh no the boogie man wants to defund the popo.

Not only do they want to defund it, but the boogie man wants to abolish the popo in Minneapolis and if you disagree.....well get the F out of here. 

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9 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

I’m saying those BLM members in Minneapolis are demanding their mayor abolish the police dept. They told him to get the F out of here at their rally when he said he wasn’t for abolishing the police dept. 

Minneapolis's council has already said they plan to dismantle and rebuild the police department via veto-proof majority.

And it sounds like BLM have an issue they find important.  That's actually a good thing for the movement.  Tangible, attainable goals need to be laid out and worked towards.

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3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I am in favor of having special prosecutors come in when any police are charged with a crime. Too often the local DA and office are biased towards the police. I am not in favor of abolishing the police. We have a fantastic local police department that does great work and that is thought highly of by the vast majority of all races in our community. You hate to see evil police that are few and far between tarnish the reputation of the solid work done by the vast majority of the police. 

 

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

Not only do they want to defund it, but the boogie man wants to abolish the popo in Minneapolis and if you disagree.....well get the F out of here. 

oh so now we slinging names are we? i knew your true colors would come out. that is your whole problem right there.if some one disagrees with you then get the ol f out of here. my goodness such a smart man as you should know they will never abolish the police department. you should also understand these people are angry at the moment over murder and injustice. you understand they upped the cops charges right? they were way too lenient in the beginning so it is common sense if the police department is not out for justice they would want to abolish a police department. don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya...........

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14 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

 

oh so now we slinging names are we? i knew your true colors would come out. that is your whole problem right there.if some one disagrees with you then get the ol f out of here. my goodness such a smart man as you should know they will never abolish the police department. you should also understand these people are angry at the moment over murder and injustice. you understand they upped the cops charges right? they were way too lenient in the beginning so it is common sense if the police department is not out for justice they would want to abolish a police department. don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya...........

I'm absolutely opposed to abolishing police depts. and I think it is really dangerous to allow emotions to rule the day. Did you see the interview with their city council person?  She was asked what people should do if someone breaks into their home since she is in favor of abolishing their police dept.  She said that was white privilege.  Yes, I am completely opposed to this line of thinking and these actions.

BTW what name did I sling?  I was quoting what BLM told the mayor of Minneapolis yesterday when he told them he was opposed to abolishing the police dept.  They told him to get the F out of here....loudly and repeatedly.  I assumed you know that.  I wasn't clear enough on my reference. So you are saying BLM is slinging names.  

 

One thing I can tell you if the more I learn about the goals of the Black Lives Matter movement, the more I am opposed to it.  Studying their website was very revealing to me.  

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9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Minneapolis's council has already said they plan to dismantle and rebuild the police department via veto-proof majority.

And it sounds like BLM have an issue they find important.  That's actually a good thing for the movement.  Tangible, attainable goals need to be laid out and worked towards.

I simply don't think abolishing police depts. is a good idea at all no matter who is behind the effort. 

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22 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I simply don't think abolishing police depts. is a good idea at all no matter who is behind the effort. 

So things are way more complicated than that.  It's not as simple as abolishing the police.

When most people are saying "defund", they are talking about re-appropriating chunks of money to programs that actually work to rehabilitation instead of incarceration.  Also pointing out the excess money that police spend on military grade weaponry, which is unnecessary.  Defunding doesn't have to mean total stripping of all budgets.  What it does mean is spending money in a smarter way and rebuilding police departments in the image of their respective community.

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10 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I'm absolutely opposed to abolishing police depts. and I think it is really dangerous to allow emotions to rule the day. Did you see the interview with their city council person?  She was asked what people should do if someone breaks into their home since she is in favor of abolishing their police dept.  She said that was white privilege.  Yes, I am completely opposed to this line of thinking and these actions.

BTW what name did I sling?  I was quoting what BLM told the mayor of Minneapolis yesterday when he told them he was opposed to abolishing the police dept.  They told him to get the F out of here....loudly and repeatedly.  I assumed you know that.  I wasn't clear enough on my reference. So you are saying BLM is slinging names.  

 

One thing I can tell you if the more I learn about the goals of the Black Lives Matter movement, the more I am opposed to it.  Studying their website was very revealing to me.  

you just told me to get the f out of here if i disagreed. it is my country as well.it is my board as well as anyone elses. i will leave when i choose or if i step over the line and get removed. but that stupid comment you made might get the discussion shut down in case you did not know.

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16 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you just told me to get the f out of here if i disagreed. it is my country as well.it is my board as well as anyone elses. i will leave when i choose or if i step over the line and get removed. but that stupid comment you made might get the discussion shut down in case you did not know.

You misinterpreted his post. Please read it again.

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23 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you just told me to get the f out of here if i disagreed. it is my country as well.it is my board as well as anyone elses. i will leave when i choose or if i step over the line and get removed. but that stupid comment you made might get the discussion shut down in case you did not know.

No, I wasn't clear in my post.  The BLM rally in Minneapolis told their mayor to get the F out of here if when he told the crowd he disagreed with them as it relates to abolishing the police.  The BLM folks were slinging names....not me.  I don't use that word.  

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