Null



Sign in to follow this  
Auburn85

Defund the Police

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

No, initially it resulted in budget cuts and lower crime rates.  Unionization led to increased spending.

Isn't this the bottom line: They are now spending 60% more for police than they were before defunding?

Who's to say what "yes but" situation will arise next time someplace tries to cut the police budget to appease the mood of the moment?  Camden can't be used as a valid example of reducing police funding, obviously it didn't work there. 

  • Like 1
  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites




50 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Isn't this the bottom line: They are now spending 60% more for police than they were before defunding?

Who's to say what "yes but" situation will arise next time someplace tries to cut the police budget to appease the mood of the moment?  Camden can't be used as a valid example of reducing police funding, obviously it didn't work there. 

But it did work there.  The policies actively affected change.  It was the people unionizing that changed financial outcomes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Isn't this the bottom line: They are now spending 60% more for police than they were before defunding?

I don't know that I've ever quoted myself before, but here it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I don't know that I've ever quoted myself before, but here it is.

And Camden isn't the only police force that is unionized. 

  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

And Camden isn't the only police force that is unionized. 

They're almost all unionized.  And that's one of the points about the police that people are making.  The police unions are too powerful and are allowing budgets to be busted along with protecting their members, including those who do the public harm.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

They're almost all unionized.  And that's one of the points about the police that people are making.  The police unions are too powerful and are allowing budgets to be busted along with protecting their members, including those who do the public harm.

I think it was @AUDub who said that he's generally pro-union but that the police unions test him. 

The way they protect bad cops- not as much with falsifying testimony, planting evidence, etc as actual written rules about wiping records of complaints and such- is something I've only recently learned more about and it's extremely bothersome. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2020 at 10:50 AM, Brad_ATX said:

You're acting as if one protest in Minneapolis speaks for the entirety of the movement.  It's ignorance at its finest.

I acknowledge many do want to abolish the police and also acknowledge many want to defund police depts.  Both are true.  It is also true many think we need more police. I have never said all want to abolish the police.  There are a wide range of things people want to do to police depts.  

  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mikey said:

Isn't this the bottom line: They are now spending 60% more for police than they were before defunding?

Who's to say what "yes but" situation will arise next time someplace tries to cut the police budget to appease the mood of the moment?  Camden can't be used as a valid example of reducing police funding, obviously it didn't work there. 

Here you go; from news articles at the time of *defunding*, there were 265 Camden NJ Police Officers that were payed off on April 13, 2013.

In a press conference Friday morning, Camden Mayor Dana Redd, as well as county and law enforcement officials, sought to reassure residents that police coverage within the city will continue throughout the process of phasing in the new metro division of the county police department. Officials stated the new department will begin taking full control of law enforcement in the city sometime next spring.

According the Joe Cordero, a former East Orange police director hired by Camden as a consultant to help transition to the county force, the new metro division of 401 officers will be supported by approximately 100 civilian personnel.

He stated new and current Camden police officers will be hired and trained over a 16 week period, with the county police department taking the lead role in the city 11 weeks after training begins.

Camden City Council President Francisco Moran praised the police plan, stating it will increase the number of “boots on the ground” from about 90 to more than 300 on a daily basis.

“Right now, we have more open air drug deals on the street per week than we have police on the street,” he said. “This is a new day.”

While the new plan calls for a steady overall police budget — it will be reduced slightly to $63 million, from $65 million — and base salaries to remain the same or increase in some cases, officials said the savings will come from the elimination of fringe benefits.

“So, for instance, the average Camden police officer all-in costs the city $182,000, while the average Camden County police officer will be paid $112,000 all-in,” said Camden County spokesman Dan Keashen in an email following the press conference. “We will be eliminating more than $18 million in fringe benefits.”

https://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/2012/11/updated_camden_city_officials.html

So basically, the City of Camden broke the union and hired (in the vernacular of the unions) scabs in the non-union county force and upped the number of *boots on the ground* from 90 to 300 on a daily basis.  And crime went down because there were more of a police presence.  Oh, and now they are all unionized and the cost is 60% higher.  Leftist math. The union didn’t get mad, they got even.

The report from Yahoo Finance is not Fake News, it’s just incomplete jounalism,

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2020 at 1:42 PM, homersapien said:

Were you aware that you can cook with remnants of stuff that's been vaped?  Vaping doesn't get all of the active ingredients out. 

(Or so I've been told)

yes. i have the old cartridge oil vape which i do not use and i have one where you stick pot in and it heats to a certain temp but i have not used it. i was told how and forgot and here i am. lol i need to find a youtube video and refresh my memory so i do not blow up or ruin my hoobie. by the way in that dye video i posted from three years ago has a segment on how he dealt with the dope smokers back then. you need to take time to watch it. he talks about the auburn fsu shootout we won and the twenty seconds............it is really good. and it is twentyfive minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

yes. i have the old cartridge oil vape which i do not use and i have one where you stick pot in and it heats to a certain temp but i have not used it. i was told how and forgot and here i am. lol i need to find a youtube video and refresh my memory so i do not blow up or ruin my hoobie. by the way in that dye video i posted from three years ago has a segment on how he dealt with the dope smokers back then. you need to take time to watch it. he talks about the auburn fsu shootout we won and the twenty seconds............it is really good. and it is twentyfive minutes.

https://www.pax.com/products/pax-3?variant=13409001341043
 

Not stealthy, but it’s good for conservation(or so I’ve heard 🙃). You can use the discard to make edibles(or so I’ve heard). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

https://www.pax.com/products/pax-3?variant=13409001341043
 

Not stealthy, but it’s good for conservation(or so I’ve heard 🙃). You can use the discard to make edibles(or so I’ve heard). 

that is kinda pricey to me. but i need to get my other vape out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

that is kinda pricey to me. but i need to get my other vape out.

Yeah, it’s a steep price tag. There are other generations that may be cheaper, but supposedly the taste, flavor, and hit are next to none.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

Yeah, it’s a steep price tag. There are other generations that may be cheaper, but supposedly the taste, flavor, and hit are next to none.  

i have an old bandmate gor hurt so bad he was hooked on pills and booze for years. now he quit and smokes pot and functions much better. i will but a buzz in his ear and he might try it first. i would have to know before i spent that but not saying you are wrong at all but different folks having different view, tastes , etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Here you go; from news articles at the time of *defunding*, there were 265 Camden NJ Police Officers that were payed off on April 13, 2013.

In a press conference Friday morning, Camden Mayor Dana Redd, as well as county and law enforcement officials, sought to reassure residents that police coverage within the city will continue throughout the process of phasing in the new metro division of the county police department. Officials stated the new department will begin taking full control of law enforcement in the city sometime next spring.

According the Joe Cordero, a former East Orange police director hired by Camden as a consultant to help transition to the county force, the new metro division of 401 officers will be supported by approximately 100 civilian personnel.

He stated new and current Camden police officers will be hired and trained over a 16 week period, with the county police department taking the lead role in the city 11 weeks after training begins.

Camden City Council President Francisco Moran praised the police plan, stating it will increase the number of “boots on the ground” from about 90 to more than 300 on a daily basis.

“Right now, we have more open air drug deals on the street per week than we have police on the street,” he said. “This is a new day.”

While the new plan calls for a steady overall police budget — it will be reduced slightly to $63 million, from $65 million — and base salaries to remain the same or increase in some cases, officials said the savings will come from the elimination of fringe benefits.

“So, for instance, the average Camden police officer all-in costs the city $182,000, while the average Camden County police officer will be paid $112,000 all-in,” said Camden County spokesman Dan Keashen in an email following the press conference. “We will be eliminating more than $18 million in fringe benefits.”

https://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/2012/11/updated_camden_city_officials.html

So basically, the City of Camden broke the union and hired (in the vernacular of the unions) scabs in the non-union county force and upped the number of *boots on the ground* from 90 to 300 on a daily basis.  And crime went down because there were more of a police presence.  Oh, and now they are all unionized and the cost is 60% higher.  Leftist math. The union didn’t get mad, they got even.

The report from Yahoo Finance is not Fake News, it’s just incomplete jounalism,

Good post. I will say the "60%" increase is in question now that this is the second time I've seen a figure different than $41ish million I found earlier seems to be incorrect.  If the budget has changed from $65 million to $66million in 6 or so years, then the increase seems minimal.

Edited by savorytiger
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i have an old bandmate gor hurt so bad he was hooked on pills and booze for years. now he quit and smokes pot and functions much better. i will but a buzz in his ear and he might try it first. i would have to know before i spent that but not saying you are wrong at all but different folks having different view, tastes , etc

Read the reviews. Easy to research. SWIM has had two previously and loved it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, savorytiger said:

Good post. I will say the "60%" increase is in question now that this is the second time I've seen a figure different than $41ish million I found earlier seems to be incorrect.  If the budget has changed from $65 million to $66million in 6 or so years, then the increase seems minimal.

I did find this:

Meanwhile, spending on Metro Police is nearly one-third (32.8 percent) of the city’s total budget, and has a “profound impact" on the city’s poor fiscal health, according to the analysis. The report notes that violent crime in Camden has fallen “markedly” since 2013, when the city’s old police force was disbanded and Metro Police, a division of the Camden County Police Department, was formed. 

But as Camden’s police budget continues to increase 2 percent per year – and adds $2.4 million per year in “indirect costs" – its growth “compels the contraction of other vital city departments and services,” the report said. 

Camden budgeted $68.45 million this year for police, compared with the $44.72 million police budget in Paterson, which has nearly double the population.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/camden-budget-property-taxes-nj-tax-credits-20190711.html

60% maybe a stretch, but it seems they pay a premium for police services. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I did find this:

Meanwhile, spending on Metro Police is nearly one-third (32.8 percent) of the city’s total budget, and has a “profound impact" on the city’s poor fiscal health, according to the analysis. The report notes that violent crime in Camden has fallen “markedly” since 2013, when the city’s old police force was disbanded and Metro Police, a division of the Camden County Police Department, was formed. 

But as Camden’s police budget continues to increase 2 percent per year – and adds $2.4 million per year in “indirect costs" – its growth “compels the contraction of other vital city departments and services,” the report said. 

Camden budgeted $68.45 million this year for police, compared with the $44.72 million police budget in Paterson, which has nearly double the population.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/camden-budget-property-taxes-nj-tax-credits-20190711.html

60% maybe a stretch, but it seems they pay a premium for police services. 

I thought the 60% was talking about the growth of the Camden police budget from 2009 to 2019, but if not, then I misunderstood. Camden is definitely paying a premium, though they are still top 20 in terms of most dangerous cities in the US and it may be warranted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, savorytiger said:

I thought the 60% was talking about the growth of the Camden police budget from 2009 to 2019, but if not, then I misunderstood. Camden is definitely paying a premium, though they are still top 20 in terms of most dangerous cities in the US and it may be warranted.

I’m not sure where the 60% came from as those type of things depends on what the agenda is, but Camden may not be the shinning example of defunding the police,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2020 at 9:54 AM, Brad_ATX said:

Create economic and educational opportunities in poor communities and see what happens.

Saying this for years. Actually gets a lot of lip service, little action. Change that and indeed see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cutting police budgets is a great start on balancing local budgets.  As long as we have the second amendment, we don't need nearly the number of police we currently have employed by governments throughout the country.  Of course, politicians being politicians, will want to spend money saved on other frivolous, unnecessary programs rather than reducing taxes. 

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

https://www.pax.com/products/pax-3?variant=13409001341043
 

Not stealthy, but it’s good for conservation(or so I’ve heard 🙃). You can use the discard to make edibles(or so I’ve heard). 

Hmmm, that looks like a posible upgrade from an Arizer "Solo". (Certainly costs more!)

So I was told.

Edited by homersapien
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I’m not sure where the 60% came from

It came from one of the links imbedded in the below link, posted by Brad. IIRC the budget was 41.1 million before "defunding," some 66 million after. I did the roughly rounded math.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/camden-nj-where-defunding-the-police-worked-didnt-really-defund-the-police-105251107.html

PS:Don't worry, this was all the union's fault and will never happen again. Defunding police is a great idea. Just ask the criminals.

Edited by Mikey
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Members Online

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.