Will Changes Occur At Auburn?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

UT Athletes have put out a list of demands for changes including ditching The Eyes of Texas, removal of building names and statues, addition of statues, changes in curriculum, and requirements of where athletic money is donated to. They will not help with recruiting or alumni events until the changes are made.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/texas-athletes-ask-school-to-replace-eyes-of-texas-rename-buildings-add-black-history-exhibit-to-hall-of-fame/ar-BB15pntE

Given the tales of its roots... does everything involving War Eagle disappear from Auburn?

[I_M4_AU 7,772]

41 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

Given the tales of its roots... does everything involving War Eagle disappear from Auburn?

There are several versions of the origin of War Eagle;

https://sports.usatoday.com/2018/09/01/why-does-auburn-say-war-eagle/

I would hope, if need be, another version would be adopted.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

55 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

There are several versions of the origin of War Eagle;

https://sports.usatoday.com/2018/09/01/why-does-auburn-say-war-eagle/

I would hope, if need be, another version would be adopted.

Yep, my thought too.  The most historically accurate one is the thought to be from the pep rally in front of Langdon.

[Auburn85 432]

Should dixie land be removed from the fight song?

[alexava 6,973]

3 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

UT Athletes have put out a list of demands for changes including ditching The Eyes of Texas, removal of building names and statues, addition of statues, changes in curriculum, and requirements of where athletic money is donated to. They will not help with recruiting or alumni events until the changes are made.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/texas-athletes-ask-school-to-replace-eyes-of-texas-rename-buildings-add-black-history-exhibit-to-hall-of-fame/ar-BB15pntE

Given the tales of its roots... does everything involving War Eagle disappear from Auburn?

Hell no. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

2 hours ago, Auburn85 said:

Should dixie land be removed from the fight song?

What I could see happening. Them tying Civil War version in with the Dixie lyrics.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Yep, my thought too.  The most historically accurate one is the thought to be from the pep rally in front of Langdon.

Should be able to figure out. Golf was a Senior back then wasn't he?

[ToraGirl 5,498]

If one's not of a conservative vein, Condi's voice may not be appreciated. I have always admired her so much, especially from her humble Birmingham upbringing. She's refreshing now, too. Probably there's not a one-size-fits-all on what do keep or discard, when and where...or even why...but I like her take, here. I like her take. And not being woman of color myself, her perspective means a lot to me.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/condoleezza-rice-dont-sanitize-history-by-taking-down-monuments%3f_amp=true

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

 

 

12 minutes ago, ToraGirl said:

If one's not of a conservative vein, Condi's voice may not be appreciated. I have always admired her so much, especially from her humble Birmingham upbringing. She's refreshing now, too. Probably there's not a one-size-fits-all on what do keep or discard, when and where...or even why...but I like her take, here. I like her take. And not being woman of color myself, her perspective means a lot to me.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/condoleezza-rice-dont-sanitize-history-by-taking-down-monuments%3f_amp=true

I appreciate her view, but I still disagree.  It doesn't sanitize history by taking down monuments, particularly monuments devoted to a losing cause.  No one has forgotten what happened in Germany during WW2, but you don't see monuments memorializing the lost cause.  History books and museums exist for a reason.

Not to mention that I'm just vehemently against having monuments in a public space that glorifies people who took up arms against the United State of America.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

59 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

 

 

I appreciate her view, but I still disagree.  It doesn't sanitize history by taking down monuments, particularly monuments devoted to a losing cause.  No one has forgotten what happened in Germany during WW2, but you don't see monuments memorializing the lost cause.  History books and museums exist for a reason.

Not to mention that I'm just vehemently against having monuments in a public space that glorifies people who took up arms against the United State of America.

You can disagree. I am especially interested in the views...very diverse...of African-Americans, especially those who have personally fought the battles we pull together to defend today. There's no one right answer, perspective. I think what she has shared has gone silenced in the furor. Hence the share.

That said, I'm no fan of recreating or glorifying the Confederacy. I wouldn't personally miss the statues. But I do wonder...like in all movements...where does the change/revision/err-to-sensitivity stop?  🤔 #unityindiversity

Shout out to DAG today for his Facebook status...

"Happy Sunday morning, everybody!  Goal for today : try to live a little and not find something that offends you. It’s beautiful outside."

I respect his voice, take tremendously too. Hope he doesn't mind me sharing that his dad was a policeman for 20 years...

 

[TexasTiger 12,811]

1 hour ago, ToraGirl said:

If one's not of a conservative vein, Condi's voice may not be appreciated. I have always admired her so much, especially from her humble Birmingham upbringing. She's refreshing now, too. Probably there's not a one-size-fits-all on what do keep or discard, when and where...or even why...but I like her take, here. I like her take. And not being woman of color myself, her perspective means a lot to me.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/condoleezza-rice-dont-sanitize-history-by-taking-down-monuments%3f_amp=true

If one is truly concerned about sanitizing history there are blunt and truthful alternative memorials to traitors, slave traders and klansmen we can erect.

[alexava 6,973]

I despise the confederate flag. I actually like how it looks and appreciate the way some  people truly liken it to simply being born and bred southern. It has a terrible history that started well after the south fell in the civil war. Many people are sickened by the sight of it. And rightfully so. I choose not to let myself be associated with it in any way because I empathize with the people who were terrorized by it. I don’t want any government , federal, state or local display it. Monuments (To me) are different. They were not flown on a pickup truck to intimidate, harass or lynch people. But I don’t care if they stay or go. 
 

I say this to show where I stand in the way of empathy and humanity. But to stop the use of a word or phrase that derived from the era of the civil war or before it is encroaching insanity. The country band “Lady Antebellum “ just recently changed to “Lady A”because of the era the word represents. I don’t have a problem with that. I wouldn’t enjoy their music any more or less. . It might gain them a couple dozen fans. Or it might actually be a negative for them. I see this movement  as a snowflake agenda that is more likely to offend black people by over patronizing with a ridiculous amount of white guilt. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

9 minutes ago, alexava said:

I despise the confederate flag. I actually like how it looks and appreciate the way some  people truly liken it to simply being born and bred southern. It has a terrible history that started well after the south fell in the civil war. Many people are sickened by the sight of it. And rightfully so. I choose not to let myself be associated with it in any way because I empathize with the people who were terrorized by it. I don’t want any government , federal, state or local display it. Monuments (To me) are different. They were not flown on a pickup truck to intimidate, harass or lynch people. But I don’t care if they stay or go. 
 

I say this to show where I stand in the way of empathy and humanity. But to stop the use of a word or phrase that derived from the era of the civil war or before it is encroaching insanity. The country band “Lady Antebellum “ just recently changed to “Lady A”because of the era the word represents. I don’t have a problem with that. I wouldn’t enjoy their music any more or less. . It might gain them a couple dozen fans. Or it might actually be a negative for them. I see this movement  as a snowflake agenda that is more likely to offend black people by over patronizing with a ridiculous amount of white guilt. 

Imagine if Stone Temple Pilots had remained Shirley Temples ***** or Pearl Jam remained Mookie Blaylock (10 was his number btw). I don't think those would work in today's society.

[ChltteTiger 649]

18 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

UT Athletes have put out a list of demands for changes including ditching The Eyes of Texas, removal of building names and statues, addition of statues, changes in curriculum, and requirements of where athletic money is donated to. They will not help with recruiting or alumni events until the changes are made.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/texas-athletes-ask-school-to-replace-eyes-of-texas-rename-buildings-add-black-history-exhibit-to-hall-of-fame/ar-BB15pntE

Given the tales of its roots... does everything involving War Eagle disappear from Auburn?

Given that a snowflake assistant professor thinks War Eagle is bad..we should definetely get rid of it!

[homersapien 11,354]

15 hours ago, ToraGirl said:

If one's not of a conservative vein, Condi's voice may not be appreciated. I have always admired her so much, especially from her humble Birmingham upbringing. She's refreshing now, too. Probably there's not a one-size-fits-all on what do keep or discard, when and where...or even why...but I like her take, here. I like her take. And not being woman of color myself, her perspective means a lot to me.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/condoleezza-rice-dont-sanitize-history-by-taking-down-monuments%3f_amp=true

Removing these monuments doesn't "sanitize history".  In fact, the fact they exist at all is what sanitizes history. 

I like Condi also but she is wrong on this.

[TexasTiger 12,811]

14 hours ago, alexava said:

I despise the confederate flag. I actually like how it looks and appreciate the way some  people truly liken it to simply being born and bred southern. It has a terrible history that started well after the south fell in the civil war. Many people are sickened by the sight of it. And rightfully so. I choose not to let myself be associated with it in any way because I empathize with the people who were terrorized by it. I don’t want any government , federal, state or local display it. Monuments (To me) are different. They were not flown on a pickup truck to intimidate, harass or lynch people. But I don’t care if they stay or go. 
 

I say this to show where I stand in the way of empathy and humanity. But to stop the use of a word or phrase that derived from the era of the civil war or before it is encroaching insanity. The country band “Lady Antebellum “ just recently changed to “Lady A”because of the era the word represents. I don’t have a problem with that. I wouldn’t enjoy their music any more or less. . It might gain them a couple dozen fans. Or it might actually be a negative for them. I see this movement  as a snowflake agenda that is more likely to offend black people by over patronizing with a ridiculous amount of white guilt. 

If you research why many monuments were erected you’ll find intimidation was often a motivation. Beyond that, what’s the message to folks that we continue to venerate certain people? Societies evolve, change and, ideally, improve. Why shouldn’t whom we honor with memorials reflect those values? Hitler and Saddam were very real— should their statues have remained?

[alexava 6,973]

16 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

If you research why many monuments were erected you’ll find intimidation was often a motivation. Beyond that, what’s the message to folks that we continue to venerate certain people? Societies evolve, change and, ideally, improve. Why shouldn’t whom we honor with memorials reflect those values? Hitler and Saddam were very real— should their statues have remained?

Good points. I don’t argue monuments either way. So I don’t care what they represent. I don’t observe them. I wouldn’t notice them if they disappeared. 
       I would notice if Auburn collectively announced that we were not going to use the “War Eagle “ battle cry any more. Because it was developed during the civil war (possibly ) or that we would halt flying the eagle pregame to discourage the roar it incites. 
    At some point you have to stop. 

[TexasTiger 12,811]

33 minutes ago, alexava said:

Good points. I don’t argue monuments either way. So I don’t care what they represent. I don’t observe them. I wouldn’t notice them if they disappeared. 
       I would notice if Auburn collectively announced that we were not going to use the “War Eagle “ battle cry any more. Because it was developed during the civil war (possibly ) or that we would halt flying the eagle pregame to discourage the roar it incites. 
    At some point you have to stop. 

I think the origin of War Eagle creating a problem would be a huge stretch. There are at least 2 very different myths surrounding it. Neither glorifies the Civil War. 

[alexava 6,973]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I think the origin of War Eagle creating a problem would be a huge stretch. There are at least 2 very different myths surrounding it. Neither glorifies the Civil War. 

You Texas folks confuse me. Lol. But that’s my point. Lady Antebellum doesn’t glorify it either. 

[TexasTiger 12,811]

27 minutes ago, alexava said:

You Texas folks confuse me. Lol. But that’s my point. Lady Antebellum doesn’t glorify it either. 

Except that their name literally refers to before the war that ended slavery.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Removing these monuments doesn't "sanitize history".  In fact, the fact they exist at all is what sanitizes history. 

I like Condi also but she is wrong on this.

I think it's super interesting that some who have a right to be the most offended...aren't.  It's easy to forget that there is so much divergence on this and every tributary of the issue, dividing within and outside of race.  I respect her view, and I respect yours, too.

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Except that their name literally refers to before the war that ended slavery.

The actual definition refers to the time before any war. Our war eagle cry was conjured from a baby eagle found during the civil war by a confederate soldier who later attended Auburn. Which could all be bullsheyt. It’s all a stretch. Ours could be considered less of a stretch. 

[homersapien 11,354]

1 hour ago, ToraGirl said:

I think it's super interesting that some who have a right to be the most offended...aren't.  It's easy to forget that there is so much divergence on this and every tributary of the issue, dividing within and outside of race.  I respect her view, and I respect yours, too.

Well, to be honest, I grew up totally immersed in the myth of the "lost cause" (Southern revisionism) and believed every word of it.  But after years of reading more modern histories of the time, I totally reverted to someone who feels we are far better served by knowing and appreciating the actual history of the Civil War and all that it entails. 

Perhaps Condi feels personally that it's better to let bygones be bygones.  Perhaps she feels it is personally gracious for her to empathize with those who actually believe in and honor that myth, but I think it's wrong.  (I would love to interview her to get to the bottom of her position.) 

Regardless, IMO, we don't need to honor such a lie by memorializing it, which is exactly what these statues do.  (The Nazi analogy is appropriate.) 

As a Southerner, I don't feel diminished one bit by recognizing the truth of the war.  If anything, my reading of historical accounts of the socio/economic realities of that war - and of widespread Southern resistance to it - have been a source of pride. 

For example, I currently live in an area of South Carolina which was a hotbed of anti-Confederate resistance.  As you probably know, there were similar areas in Alabama and virtually every other Southern state. Over 100,000 Southerners fought for the North.

There was never a vote on secession.  It was a war that was created by the rich, powerful, landowners - particularly in the lowlands - and forced on many Southerners, particularly the ones of Scotch/Irish decent who lived without slaves in the highlands.  A lot of poor Southerners were duped into supporting the Confederacy based on false rationales for the war. 

Regardless, the sooner we honestly face that history the better off we'll be.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, to be honest, I grew up totally immersed in the myth of the "lost cause" (Southern revisionism) and believed every word of it.  But after years of reading more modern histories of the time, I totally reverted to someone who feels we are far better served by knowing and appreciating the actual history of the Civil War and all that it entails. 

Perhaps Condi feels personally that it's better to let bygones be bygones.  Perhaps she feels it is personally gracious for her to empathize with those who actually believe in and honor that myth, but I think it's wrong.  (I would love to interview her to get to the bottom of her position.) 

Regardless, IMO, we don't need to honor such a lie by memorializing it, which is exactly what these statues do.  (The Nazi analogy is appropriate.) 

As a Southerner, I don't feel diminished one bit by recognizing the truth of the war.  If anything, my reading of historical accounts of the socio/economic realities of that war - and of widespread Southern resistance to it - have been a source of pride. 

For example, I currently live in an area of South Carolina which was a hotbed of anti-Confederate resistance.  As you probably know, there were similar areas in Alabama and virtually every other Southern state. Over 100,000 Southerners fought for the North.

There was never a vote on secession.  It was a war that was created by the rich, powerful, landowners - particularly in the lowlands - and forced on many Southerners, particularly the ones of Scotch/Irish decent who lived without slaves in the highlands.  A lot of poor Southerners were duped into supporting the Confederacy based on false rationales for the war. 

Regardless, the sooner we honestly face that history the better off we'll be.

I read a lot, and I read about lots of different topics, but you make me want to read THIS one even more.  I really love this post.  Thank you for sharing your reflections!  Do you have favorite authors on this subject...where is a good starting place?  And have you read 1776?  Different war, but I got bogged down by the writing style.  I can pick it up again...

[ToraGirl 5,498]

5 hours ago, alexava said:

The actual definition refers to the time before any war. Our war eagle cry was conjured from a baby eagle found during the civil war by a confederate soldier who later attended Auburn. Which could all be bullsheyt. It’s all a stretch. Ours could be considered less of a stretch. 

Hey, Alexava....I am researching a SOCIALLY-DISTANT family road trip to Yellowstone and the Black Hills.  You won't believe what I just found.  Had NO idea.  On the atlas, it says, "War Eagle Grave."  PLEASE don't tell Bammer.  

'Wambdi Okicize is commonly known as War Eagle. He was born in either Wisconsin or Minnesota around 1785. While his Indian name means "Little Eagle," whites always referred to him as War Eagle, which is odd because all through his life War Eagle sought to keep peace. He even left his home tribe the Isanti (sometimes referred to as Santee) to avoid a battle as to who was to become chief..."

http://www.siouxcityhistory.org/historic-sites/109-war-eagle