repubs or righties i got a question?

[homersapien 11,362]

4 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I don't see things the way you do, no.

Well, here's some advice: 

If you want to complain about the lack of intellectually honest debate, don't lead by making hyperbolic generalizations that demonize your opponent. 

It's extremely paradoxical.

[AUsince72 11,084]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, here's some advice: 

If you want to complain about the lack of intellectually honest debate, don't lead by making hyperbolic generalizations that demonize your opponent. 

It's extremely paradoxical.

I don't give advice but I might offer "what I'd do"...

First, don't ignore 75% of what I said and cherry pick what you believe are "gotchas" without the proper context.  It's disingenuous.

Second, since you're the one who directly engaged me with name calling, look in that mirror.

Last, if you truly want honest conversation, okay.  Pick a policy or current event.  Give me your position/opinion and let's discuss.

**You actually might be surprised at my response.  I like to think about things with some complexity, thus can often see where both sides have value and where both sides should keep the extremes in check.

[homersapien 11,362]

Just now, AUsince72 said:

I don't give advice but I might offer "what I'd do"...

First, don't ignore 75% of what I said and cherry pick what believe are "gotchas" without the proper context.

Second, since you're the one who directly engaged me with name calling, look in that mirror.

Last, if you truly want honest conversation, okay.  Pick a policy or current event.  Give me your position/opinion and let's discuss.

**You actually might be surprised at my response.  I like to think about things with some complexity, thus can often see where both sides have value and where both sides should keep the extremes in check.

First, those weren't "gotchas".  You even reiterated those hyperbolic statements were the "truth".  I am not going to engage anyone who leads with that sort of hyperbolic BS, and then insists they meant every word of it.  It would be a waste of our time.

But I'm impressed you were insulted by my implying that you sound like Rush and characterized it as "name calling".

So, maybe there's hope for you.

 

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, those weren't "gotchas".  You even reiterated those hyperbolic statements were the "truth".  I am not going to engage anyone who leads with that sort of hyperbolic BS, and then insists they meant every word of it.  It would be a waste of our time.

But I'm impressed you were insulted by my implying that you sound like Rush and characterized it as "name calling".

So, maybe there's hope for you.

 

 

Okay?  Good..... talk?

[homersapien 11,362]

27 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Okay?  Good..... talk?

About what?

[AUsince72 11,084]

Just now, homersapien said:

About what?

Exactly.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

10 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Exactly.

🤣🤣

[homersapien 11,362]

13 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Exactly.

You asked if I wanted talk, and I asked about what.

So I don't understand your point - what do you mean by responding "exactly".

So you'll have to explain.  Thanks

[AUsince72 11,084]

26 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You asked if I wanted talk, and I asked about what.

So I don't understand your point - what do you mean by responding "exactly".

So you'll have to explain.  Thanks

Wow man.

You know exactly what I mean and you know it.

I've hitched my high-horse to a post and am standing in the weeds offering to have have an honest conversation with you.  Yet your horse keeps getting higher & higher.

What scares you more?  That I might actually demonstrate what I'm offering and meet you with compromise on something....or simply that an evil Conservative might agree with you on something and ruin your reputation?

I've stated multiple times now.  I do not lump all people as one.  I don't lump liberals and the extreme left as one.

You continuously post things about evil people in the right.  Yet you cannot admit, to save your soul, that there are also evil people on the left.  If you cannot admit your own faults (I have feely admitted mine in various threads) then you can never have honest conversation that leads to hand shakes or even bear hugs.

Brother, I'm not trying to fight you.  I'm trying to demonstrate what you said you wanted from me.  But I'm here by myself while you just judge me.

So, engage or not.  But don't act like I'm the one not engaging.  This is a public forum.  You're not fooling anyone.  Be honest with yourself.  It's liberating.

[homersapien 11,362]

3 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Wow man.

You know exactly what I mean and you know it. No, you said you wanted to talk about something and I asked what?  still don't know what you meant by responding "exactly")

I've hitched my high-horse to a post and am standing in the weeds offering to have have an honest conversation with you. (ABOUT WHAT??) Yet your horse keeps getting higher & higher.

What scares you more?  That I might actually demonstrate what I'm offering and meet you with compromise on something....or simply that an evil Conservative might agree with you on something and ruin your reputation?

I've stated multiple times now.  I do not lump all people as one.  I don't lump liberals and the extreme left as one.

You continuously post things about evil people in the right.  Yet you cannot admit to save your soul then there are also evil people on the left.  (BS, I have always acknowledged there are evil people on both sides of the political spectrum.) If you cannot admit yoyr own faults (I have feely admitted mine in various threads) then you can never have honest conversation that leads to hand shakes or even bear hugs.

Brother, I'm not trying to fight you.  I'm trying to demonstrate what you said you wanted from me.  But I'm here by myself while you just judge me. (I am not judging you, I am reading and judging some of your posted statements.)

So, engage or not.  But don't act like I'm tge one not engaging.  This is a public forum.  You're not fooling anyone.  Be honest with yourself.  It's liberating.

The above assertions in red are false.  Furthermore they repeat the paradox of your position.  You don't lie about people and then expect an "intellectual conversation".

Fact: You posted several hyperbolic generalizations about liberals - which you confirmed you believe are true - and then bemoaned the fact one cannot have an intellectual conversation (presumably with liberals).

I'm done with this.  If you want to demonstrate you can have an intellectual conversation about "something" then get back to me with a topic.

[SaltyTiger 7,789]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

And you can do your insecure sniping on either.

Yep...try defending trump see how secure you feel. Maybe I will be emboldened after the big rally tomorrow night. Feels sorta like tomorrow is game day doesn't it Brother Homer. Probably cook a brisket or something. What did you think of Trumps warning?

 

Donald J. Trump

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

 

 

Any protesters, anarchists, agitators, looters or lowlifes who are going to Oklahoma please understand, you will not be treated like you have been in New York, Seattle, or Minneapolis. It will be a much different scene!

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

The above assertions in red are false.  Furthermore they repeat the paradox of your position.  You don't lie about people and then expect an "intellectual conversation".

Fact: You posted several hyperbolic generalizations about liberals - which you confirmed you believe are true - and then bemoaned the fact one cannot have an intellectual conversation (presumably with liberals).

I'm done with this.  If you want to demonstrate you can have an intellectual conversation about "something" then get back to me with a topic.

Well, I guess this technically is a conversation.  Okay.  I'll roll with it.

Since you keep going on about hyperbole....

No, I did not.  Fiddy opened the thread with an (what you would call hyperbolic) assumption himself about "righties" hating liberals (and I like the guy) so I demonstrated just a few factual items about extreme leftists doing the same and in the context of how the left calls conservatives fascists & Nazis I correctly compared the actions of the extreme left to actual Nazi history.

Again, just because you don't like the real world where people are accountable for their actions doesn't make the facts I posted magically untrue.  Just cuz you say so is not the end all be all of reality.

I even stepped it back a bit, admitted that I wasn't trying to lump garden variety liberals in with the extreme left, and corrected it.  But you conveniently ignore that too.

You ignore the facts when they don't fit your narrative and perpetrate exactly that which I was pointing out.  So you are doing exactly what Fiddy is accusing "righties" of doing and your doing it on a public forum for all to see.

I'm comfortable with who I am and I can honestly defend my beliefs....and have offered to do so.  But you just sit there not knowing what to say except ugly attacks on me personally.  There's no defense for how you're acting.  I hate that for you.

[homersapien 11,362]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:30 PM, AUsince72 said:

Fiddy, you actually brought me to the politics board.

You're question is actually structured in a way that is doing the same as you're accusing.  You're making a generalized prejudiced assumption, just like you are accusing "righties" of doing.  That is the problem with American politics today and the direction the country is heading unfortunately.  There's no middle ground,  and more importantly, very little (if any) forgiveness anymore.

That's essentially correct, Fifty did generalize when he said "righties". But there is an element of truth in it when you consider the overwhelming influence of socal media, and Fox network propaganda.  My family presents a good example.  I would never consider them as "radical" conservatives, but they do tend to parrot what I consider to be radical positions of Fox "news and commentary". 

Likewise, the Rush Limbaugh show - and others - provide a constant stream of anti-liberal hate speech.  There are a very few liberal equivalents, but qualitatively - or more importantly quantitatively - there are no liberal counterparts. 

I think this is what made fifty generalize to the extent he did.   If you are liberal and listen to any of these cable news or radio sources demonizing all liberal or Democrats - they certainly don't make distinctions - you would understand. They are expecially vile when it comes to Democratic leadership like Pelosi and Biden.

It is not my intent to be controversial with my post but over the last 11-1/2 years it's gone beyond differing beliefs of the two parties/philosophies that, for much of history, has had many policies able to be bridged with compromise.  Though there are clearly many black & white *not race* differences as well (ie: abortion) typically we've all just been people who wanted to live in peace & get along and the racists & hate groups were the fringes of society. 

I could agree with this, except for the fact the leader of the Republican party - and apparently most conservatives in general if you go by the polls - is Donald Trump. 

Trump's MO is obviously fomenting division and hate. And conservative that truly is alarmed by the hyper-division and growing influence of extremism on both sides has to take Trump into account or they are simply part of the problem

However, in the last 3+ years, the (extreme left of the) Democrat party & 95+% of the "media" (formerly "the press"...indicating impartial reporting) which is mostly now just editorial opinion,  of the US of A has totally morphed into a Total Left way of thinking, which is forcing moderate Dems to have to make a choice and moderate Republicans to shift further right as well, because of the militancy of this new approach.  In the last 3+ years you are seeing a reaction to the divisiveness of Donald Trump.  The hyper-division you describe is exactly what he has been trying to achieve.

The "95+% of the media statement" is pure unsupported partisan hyperbole as well as the "USA totally morphing into a left way of thinking". 

Again what you perceive as a fundamental philosophical change to the left is a reaction to a extremist, authoritarian POTUS.  If the left had a figure analogous to Trump elected president you would see a similar reaction from the Press and media in the other direction. 

They truly do understand their responsibility to counteract extremism in the government.  At least the respected ones do.  The rest are blatantly political and don't hide it.

I'm obviously a Christian and a conservative.  However, I used to be much more moderate in my thinking.  I saw plenty of value in the beliefs of the Democrat party and was sometimes open to voting for Dems who had a moderate way of thinking.  Can't do that anymore.  There IS no moderate way of thinking anymore.  Untrue nonsense.  It is still possible for anyone with an open mind and who is a critical thinker to see both sides of an issue and recognize and respect each.

For example it's possible of anyone - liberal or conservative - to understand and appreciate what the BLM protests represent while at the same time condemning the counter-productive violence and destruction (from both police and anarchists.) 

And there are  plenty of such centrist Democrats and a good deal of centrist Republicans also (just not Trump supporters,  for the reasons I gave).  Trump thrives on division and it's very difficult to support him as a centrist, Republican or Democrat. 

It's not that I think "all Dems are evil".  It's just that it seems more & more each day that "all" Dems think I'M evil.  I see stories of the left calling us fascists, racists, privileged.   Well some of "you" are. (See Trump's statement embracing white nationalists as "good people"). 

But it seems to me that many Trump supporters don't understand or empathize with the victims of our racist and privileged system, which essentially favors the white and rich over the colored and poor in virtually all areas of life, from economic to law enforcement. 

For evidence, see the discussion on the term "Black Lives Matter".  You see very few self-identified conservatives on this forum who "get it".

And trust me, not "all" Democrats - much less liberals in general - think conservatives are evil. 

For example, I think the country needs responsible conservatism as a natural counterbalance to liberals.  There are many "never Trump" supporters who I can agree with on what are generally considered conservative positions. But I will grant you, I do not consider strong Trump supporters to be responsible conservatives.  And I don't consider Trump to even be a conservative at all in the traditional sense.

In situations of racial, gender or even LGBTQ politics, so often even if someone (like me.... a middle aged, white Male with a southern drawl) were to show support, they are often told "you can't understand because you live in white privilege", etc.  "So.....I guess you don't want my support?  Okay then." No offense but this comes across as self-pity. 

But any liberal who claims most whites don't truly understand or appreciate "white privilege" is generally correct. I think it is virtually impossible to really understand it without living it as a person of color one's whole life. 

But if you think you do understand it - at least to the extent you recognize it - then don't take such generalize statements personally.  I don't take it personally, but then, I also recognize I have personally benefited from white privilege.  Hopefully, you can join me where I am on this.

The ultimate problem, in my estimation, is not as much the policy, or beliefs themselves, as the hatred & militancy of what's becoming of the (extreme) left.  And I realize my post won't be received well by many Liberals (though I'm referring to the extreme).  It's okay to disagree.....or at least USED to be.  However with this new "Cancel Culture" the 1st Amendment is under attack and it's the right, not the left, being dismissed.  Well, let me refer to another extreme - you know, those folks Trump described as "very good people".  They would like for the country to revert back to the principle of white supremacy (perhaps that's when "America was Great"?)

Would I be justified in implying such thinking is more or less common on the conservative side of the political divide? I think not. So why imply that about liberals in a post?

There's perfect examples in this very board (even the football board) where I see conservatives attacked and called names for their beliefs and later seeing them apologize and meekly forced to cave to Mob Rule. Yeah, that never happens with liberals. But next time you see such a post, please share it.  I'd like to know what exactly what those specific beliefs were that merited "attacking".   

And lastly, the ignorance of history and the creation of new, revisionist history is becoming prevalent.  Used to be a saying "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".  That's never more obvious than in today's culture.  Hearing/reading Dems (at least the far left) calling conservatives "fascists" is almost funny if it weren't so scary.  I'm sure there's plenty threads comparing us to Nazi's and Trump is Hitler.  However....  Well there are some aspects of modern, Trump conservatism that are fascist in nature, including the xenophobia.  But personally, I think a combination of authoritarianism and oligarchy is a much better description.

Who are the one's doing to most prevalent bullying & threatening of those who have differing views today?  The Extreme Left.  MeeToo, BLM and it's related anti-semitic group, Antifa, etc = Hitler's Brown Shirts (and later the SS) not ring a bell?  That's mostly exaggerated propaganda. For example Antifa is not related to the BLM movement (if it's a movement at all).  Their influence is being exaggerated for political purposes to oppose the legitimate grievances that BLM represent - exactly as you are doing here.  

But again, if you are going to constantly bring up the "extreme left" in such a discussion like this, let's not forget the white nationalists and white paramilitary groups that actually represent a far greater threat to the country's peace and stability than antifa.

Who are the one's forcing the removal of TV shows about cops & forcing Elmer Fudd......A CARTOON..... off the air because he carried a shotgun, etc?   The Extreme Left.  Burning books, records, art in the third reich not ring a bell? Yep, that's pretty silly.  Won't get any argument from me on that. But I think you are greatly exaggerating the significance of that "problem".  Certainly comparing such isolated instances to the systematic practices of the Nazis is ludicrously over the top.

Who are the one's fueling propaganda and subversively forcing their beliefs onto unsuspecting children in our schools and openly through commercials & entertainment etc?  The Extreme Left.  Joseph Goebbels, the nazi propaganda minister not ring a bell? Seriously?  "Propaganda in the schools?  "Forcing one's beliefs on unsuspecting children"  That comes across as somewhat hysterical generalization.  You'll need to provide some specifics if you want to continue with an intellectual discussion on this.

Who are the one's fueling the fight against our 2nd Amendment?   The Extreme Left.  The confiscation of firearms and arresting/killing of those who did not comply in nazi Germany's early days not ring a bell?  Well speaking for myself - as a liberal - I own several guns and intend to keep them.  But I will admit that I think we are way overdue for additional firearms regulation which I feel the 2nd amendment allows.  But if we have to modify the 2nd amendment to allow for such regulations, I am OK with that. 

This is one of those hysterical political talking points that illustrates the division and lack of serious debate in our country. 

That's what caused me to describe it as "paradoxical" when such statements are included in a response with the theme of bemoaning the lack of "serious intellectual discussion".  (Especially the comment about "arresting/killing" gun owners, which comes across as a self-fulling wish for another civil war.)

Now, I'm not stating these things to call anyone on this board anything.   I'm merely doing it in hope's that those who hate conservatives, and call US these names will simply look in the mirror and realize they don't stand on pure & clean ideals.  As Jesus Christ Himself said "He who is without sin, cast the first stone." Right back 'aitcha'

Instead of continuing to perpetrate the continued divisiveness, how about each side contemplating their own sins and try reaching across the aisle?

This country is falling apart because nobody will take the first step.  IMO, it's impossible for liberals to "take the first step" with the current POTUS.  He would simply use it to his advantage with nary a thought about the welfare of the country as a whole.

OK, let's try this, since it seems you want to focus on your OP.

Was that "serious and intellectual enough" to comport with your post?

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

OK, let's try this, since it seems you want to focus on your OP.

Was that "serious and intellectual enough" to comport with your post?

Awesome!  Thank you sir!

I will read this and be happy to discuss.

Just wanted to quickly say that I sincerely appreciate it.

[homersapien 11,362]

9 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Yep...try defending trump see how secure you feel.

Isn't that what you folks describe as being a "snowflake"?

If there is a God, Trump and Pence (if he's there) will acquire Covid 19.

(Not that I wish for it.  I'd rather see him humiliated by a landside defeat, which would politically serve the country much better.)

[homersapien 11,362]

9 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Well, I guess this technically is a conversation.  Okay.  I'll roll with it.

Since you keep going on about hyperbole....

No, I did not.  Fiddy opened the thread with an (what you would call hyperbolic) assumption himself about "righties" hating liberals (and I like the guy) so I demonstrated just a few factual items about extreme leftists doing the same and in the context of how the left calls conservatives fascists & Nazis I correctly compared the actions of the extreme left to actual Nazi history.

Again, just because you don't like the real world where people are accountable for their actions doesn't make the facts I posted magically untrue.  Just cuz you say so is not the end all be all of reality.

I even stepped it back a bit, admitted that I wasn't trying to lump garden variety liberals in with the extreme left, and corrected it.  But you conveniently ignore that too.

You ignore the facts when they don't fit your narrative and perpetrate exactly that which I was pointing out.  So you are doing exactly what Fiddy is accusing "righties" of doing and your doing it on a public forum for all to see.

I'm comfortable with who I am and I can honestly defend my beliefs....and have offered to do so.  But you just sit there not knowing what to say except ugly attacks on me personally.  There's no defense for how you're acting.  I hate that for you.

     How's that for "serious intellectualism"?

And that's as close to an "ugly attack" on you personally that I have made.  (Assuming you assume it worse than accusing you of sounding like Rush Limbaugh. ) 

(But like I said, if you think saying you sounded like Rush is an "ugly attack", there's hope for you yet. )

And since we are being snowflakey, you made some declarative statements about me personally that were not justified.  

And when did you "step it back"?   I didn't notice.  I don't think that "step back" was evident  in the post I responded with "Rush is that you?"  (You kept referring to "the left" in that post.)

Regardless,  your qualifiers - whenever they occurred - are fine.  They, objectively,  take you off the hook. Regardless, your (original) post still came across as paradoxical in tone when you lament the lack of "serious intellectual discussion". 

But it's OK if you don't agree with me on tone,  after all - unlike qualifiers - that is purely subjective.

 

[Grumps 3,704]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:14 PM, AUsince72 said:

Nobody will admit their own faults so nobody can have an honest conversation.

That's the whole point.  Instead if honest reflection and trying to find common ground, just call me a name.

That's why this place has become a cess pool.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

I actually thanked you and have engaged in serious discussion yet you go ahead with this garbage.

And when did I ever mention snowflake?  Youve got me confused with someone else.

Dang man.  You really are what others are saying.

Never mind....

But, I love you as my brother and pray you find peace.

Yep. 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

7 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Wow man.

You know exactly what I mean and you know it.

I've hitched my high-horse to a post and am standing in the weeds offering to have have an honest conversation with you.  Yet your horse keeps getting higher & higher.

What scares you more?  That I might actually demonstrate what I'm offering and meet you with compromise on something....or simply that an evil Conservative might agree with you on something and ruin your reputation?

I've stated multiple times now.  I do not lump all people as one.  I don't lump liberals and the extreme left as one.

You continuously post things about evil people in the right.  Yet you cannot admit, to save your soul, that there are also evil people on the left.  If you cannot admit your own faults (I have feely admitted mine in various threads) then you can never have honest conversation that leads to hand shakes or even bear hugs.

Brother, I'm not trying to fight you.  I'm trying to demonstrate what you said you wanted from me.  But I'm here by myself while you just judge me.

So, engage or not.  But don't act like I'm the one not engaging.  This is a public forum.  You're not fooling anyone.  Be honest with yourself.  It's liberating.

You're describing the difference between trying to win an argument and trying to communicate one's true opinion and be heard and respected. You may be addressing two different agenda-driven audiences, each with the right to be that audience. But when it comes to "winning friends and influencing people"...i.e. inspiration or leadership...you got my vote, '72. You do you! Like you said...it's liberating!

[augolf1716 21,103]

[ToraGirl 5,498]

3 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Which flavor, Golf? 😉🤣😊

[augolf1716 21,103]

2 minutes ago, ToraGirl said:

Which flavor, Golf? 😉🤣😊

All except Jalapeno at my age can't handle the heat

[ToraGirl 5,498]

5 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

All except Jalapeno at my age can't handle the heat

I will take popcorn any flavor...totally with you on the jalapeno. They even have beer cheese for you right here the next time you roll a Toomer's Oak! 🤫🤪🦋🎶

https://www.auburnpopcorn.com/

 

[BobLouder 7]

On 6/17/2020 at 9:30 AM, aubiefifty said:

i dislike abortion. i believe in god. i own a gun. i love america. five point vet

You sound like  a Conservative to me. 

 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

10 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

I cherry picked this just to not requote your whole post but yes, sadly I see that....especially in 2020.  Since there's no football anyway (and I'm not certain there will be) I normally might peruse All Things Considered but judging from the football forum, politics is just the subject du jour anyway so I thought, okay let's check it out more in depth.  

Though being controversial is not a desire of mine (I prefer friendly & light) Fiddy's question just seemed like a perfect opportunity to demonstrate how one side is no more pure and virtuous as the other.  Just spreading around the mirror, so to speak.  He leans left, I lean right.  Seemed a good opportunity.

Thus, I stand by my posts (and thoughts) and just let the vitriolic replies stand on their own as exhibit a, exhibit b, etc...

Note, I didn't actually state any position on policy except using abortion as a (requested by a poster) real world example of how extreme leftists in public schools are, in fact, trying to indoctrinate our young children to their way of thinking. However, prejudiced assumptions, which Conservatives are constantly being accused of, were made about me because.....well, I'm an evil repub rightie. 

Yes I'm conservative but if anyone actually brought up a current event and asked my stance, odds are I will give you a POV that demonstrates where I think each side makes a good point and also where each side needs to admit fault.  In my heart I'm moderate in thought about most things unless they fly in the face of what My Lord & Saviour says is Right & Wrong.  And even then, I'm a sinner myself so I don't pretend that I don't have some surprisingly contradictory views to my Baptist upbringing.  You don't want ME to make assumptions about you?  I ask the same in return.

But again, I'm honestly not attacking anyone personally and did not do so to begin with either.  Since Fiddy asked the question framed Liberal.  I answered framed Conservative.  In the end, if people on both sides really came down from their high-horses and found some humility, then reason and compromise could gain steam and the extremists would once again become true fringe groups.  Until then, the extremes will continue to grow until this country destroys itself.  Again, history....REAL not revisionist....repeating itself.

Think you and Fiddy found common ground. Mission accomplished. The rest of us are just hitchhikers...