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tigerman1186

Clemson 23 players with virus

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1 hour ago, nixtosanders94 said:

I do not believe we will see football this fall. ☹️

If we cancel football, That would be reason enough to go to war with China.

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I personally know someone who had tested for antibodies in April but was not currently infected. Yesterday as part of his job requirements he was tested and came back actively positive. He is now on 14 day quarantine. Anyone on either side of this debate who claims to know all the answers or is full denial of what someone is saying or experiencing is full of shite. 

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12 hours ago, Mikey said:

How so? That's how vaccines work, infect the person with a similar, either killed or modified live virus and that makes immunity. Please explain how getting the real thing won't provide immunity.

My Auburn classes in microbiology and infectious diseases don't go back quite as far as when it was discovered that milk maids didn't get smallpox because their cowpox exposure protected them, but the basic principles haven't changed in over the hundred years since those principles were first discovered.

Mickey, there have been reports of people getting this virus twice. The CDC has reported that they are unsure of the nature of human immunity to the coronavirus. There is still A lot of speculation about immunity they still do not have all the facts to say that for sure. There has been evidence that asymptomatic people can spread the virus. Hopefully they will get definitive answers soon but we can’t just assume that once you get it.. you are immune. 

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3 hours ago, nixtosanders94 said:

I do not believe we will see football this fall. ☹️

How so? There is going to be a huge wave of positive tests. This is just the start. None of the clemson crew had to be hospitalized and all were showing no symptons. The LSU people also had none that had to go to the hospital and only a few had mild symptons. The national media is freaking out about positive tests but there is no reason to if almost all of them were asymptomatic. There is so much lost context when people report of all these positive tests coming back from football teams. They just want to generate a big juicy headline. If these players start to get really really sick and end up in the hospital? Then yes there def will not be a season. 

Edited by GwillMac6
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BTW the CDC announced May 28 that covid death rate is 0.4% overall. It is 0.05% for those under 60 years of age. The flu death rate is 0.1%. So the players and students (and most fans in stands) are more likely to die from the flu than from covid. And in case you missed it, Dr. Fauci  (along with the New England Journal of Medicine)  said that wearing a mask is "symbolic". It really offers no benefit. The Surgeon General said, back in March, masks may actually facilitate the spread. Don't take my word for it. Look up the facts yourselves.

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10 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:
14 hours ago, Mikey said:

 

    This is why you have to get a flu shot every year.  Viruses mutate. 

Indeed they can mutate. So far there has been no mention of this Wuhan Virus mutating. Except for your German link, (I don't read German), the links speak of not as many antibodies, not zero antibodies. Perhaps there aren't as many, but some antibodies for a virus that's mild in most cases anyway should pretty much remove any cause for worry.

With the flu shot, they say "You might still get the flu but it won't be nearly as bad". If something that's not very bad in young people anyway is going to be "not as bad" I think the response should be to carry on as normal.

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3 hours ago, NoALtiger said:

I personally know someone who had tested for antibodies in April but was not currently infected. Yesterday as part of his job requirements he was tested and came back actively positive. He is now on 14 day quarantine. Anyone on either side of this debate who claims to know all the answers or is full denial of what someone is saying or experiencing is full of shite. 

Check this out, I know a friend of a friend who's an ER doc who had the virus back in March, tested positive, was sick for a week, all that jazz. He had to get three antibody tests done in May before one came back showing he had them. The first two were negative because his antibody threshold was barely below what the test considers a presence of antibodies in the blood. There's still a ways to go on testing and the antibody tests. 

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15 hours ago, Mikey said:

How so? That's how vaccines work, infect the person with a similar, either killed or modified live virus and that makes immunity. Please explain how getting the real thing won't provide immunity.

First, that infection with this virus provides immunity from further infection was never established so much as it was hoped for. Second, there have been multiple instances (including sailors aboard US Navy ships) where people who were previously infected who tested clear for two weeks following infection later tested positive again with those positive tests confirmed. Third, there is recent news that even if COVID-19 does provide immunity, that immunity may be short term, lasting only a few weeks to a few months. Finally, this virus., like the cold and flu virus, apparently mutates pretty rapidly and each mutation may "get around" any previous immunity or vaccine much as does the cold and flu viruses we all know and have experience with.

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1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Indeed they can mutate. So far there has been no mention of this Wuhan Virus mutating.

There has. It's hard to keep up and sometimes it gets lost in the shuffle, but in the continental United States there have been reports out of Chicago, New York and the Pacific Northwest that they think they have found mutated strains. The report out of Chicago is only a few days old...

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7 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

There has. It's hard to keep up and sometimes it gets lost in the shuffle, but in the continental United States there have been reports out of Chicago, New York and the Pacific Northwest that they think they have found mutated strains. The report out of Chicago is only a few days old...

I haven't seen those reports. Are the mutations less or more harmful to humans?

 

7 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

First, that infection with this virus provides immunity from further infection was never established so much as it was hoped for.

No, it hasn't been established with regard to this virus, the virus is a new one. However, the entire theory of Vaccination to Achieve Immunization is founded on the knowledge that exposure builds immunity. If exposure to the Wuhan Virus doesn't build immunity, it will indeed be "novel".

Further, if exposure doesn't build immunity, the search for a vaccine is a fool's errand.

Edited by Mikey

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11 hours ago, AuMarine said:

Mickey, there have been reports of people getting this virus twice. The CDC has reported that they are unsure of the nature of human immunity to the coronavirus. There is still A lot of speculation about immunity they still do not have all the facts to say that for sure. There has been evidence that asymptomatic people can spread the virus. Hopefully they will get definitive answers soon but we can’t just assume that once you get it.. you are immune. 

I'd really like to see figures based on "getting sick" rather than "tested positive". With this virus, many if not most that test positive don't even know they've got the bug. I don't doubt that asymptomatic people spread the virus during the time they are actively infected and the several days that led up to that. Once that period has passed they likely are no longer spreading it.

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58 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I haven't seen those reports. Are the mutations less or more harmful to humans?

 

No, it hasn't been established with regard to this virus, the virus is a new one. However, the entire theory of Vaccination to Achieve Immunization is founded on the knowledge that exposure builds immunity. If exposure to the Wuhan Virus doesn't build immunity, it will indeed be "novel".

Further, if exposure doesn't build immunity, the search for a vaccine is a fool's errand.

On the first question, the answer seems to remain a question. The Chicago report seemed to indicate that the mutation they are seeing may be more infectious but that's all I saw on that.

On the theory of vaccination and immunization, all viruses are different. Some have not lent themselves to vaccines. Think "common cold" for one example. Think HIV for another.

I'm truly hoping that a vaccine can be developed and proven effective for COVID-19, and the sooner the better. But right now I think whether that can be done is an open question.

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12 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

How so? There is going to be a huge wave of positive tests. This is just the start. None of the clemson crew had to be hospitalized and all were showing no symptons. The LSU people also had none that had to go to the hospital and only a few had mild symptons. The national media is freaking out about positive tests but there is no reason to if almost all of them were asymptomatic. There is so much lost context when people report of all these positive tests coming back from football teams. They just want to generate a big juicy headline. If these players start to get really really sick and end up in the hospital? Then yes there def will not be a season. 

Oh believe me I hope you’re right. I just feel like the media-driven panic will force administrators to be overly cautious.

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13 hours ago, AU57 said:

BTW the CDC announced May 28 that covid death rate is 0.4% overall. It is 0.05% for those under 60 years of age. The flu death rate is 0.1%. So the players and students (and most fans in stands) are more likely to die from the flu than from covid. And in case you missed it, Dr. Fauci  (along with the New England Journal of Medicine)  said that wearing a mask is "symbolic". It really offers no benefit. The Surgeon General said, back in March, masks may actually facilitate the spread. Don't take my word for it. Look up the facts yourselves.

March was a long time ago.   We are learning more about the virus everyday.  You are basing your view on old information. 

CDC will make an updated recommendation on masks "soon," senior agency official says
From CNN’s Nick Valencia

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has been conducting a scientific review about the public health benefits of masks, and will soon make an updated recommendation, a senior CDC official told CNN.

The reviews are happening even though the CDC has already published guidance on its website.

A senior official with knowledge of the review said science is being studied as to whether masks are not only “good for source control — and keeping you from giving it to others — but we’re also seeing if masks are going to protect you from getting [Covid-19] yourself.”

“We know it’s a good thing to wear a mask to protect others. We are studying if it is also potentially going to keep you safe,” the official added.
The CDC website has two separate pages of guidance on face coverings. One recommends people wear masks when they leave their home. The other recommends people wear a mask if they cannot properly social distance.

An official at the agency says recommendations from a final scientific review by its incident management “will happen soon.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/dr-anthony-fauci-says-americans-who-dont-wear-masks-may-propagate-the-spread-of-infection.html

 

AGAIN!!!   death is not the only negative outcome. Recovery is not always so easy.    MANY, MANY cases are having issues with scaring on the lungs, kidney issues,  liver issues .  Lack of post covid immunity.  Kids are getting that immuno syndrome.  Heart attacks, diabetes ,  brain fog, extremely low oxygen level causing  people to just collapse often when they are asymptomatic cases. ,  etc etc.     

lung-damage-caused-by-covid-19.png

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-can-damage-lungs-without-showing-symptoms/

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/06/d-l-hughley-collapses-onstage-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

^^^^This is what I suspect attributed to the HS player that died a few days ago  Lack of Oxygen.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/us-woman-devastated-after-catching-coronavirus-twice/news-story/1e95df7785ce3fee86b88504f04f248a

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/497715-kidney-damage-seen-in-one-third-of-covid-19-patients-studied-in-new-report

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767209

https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/12/shocking-nearly-recovered-covid-19-health-issues-months-later

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/covid-19-may-trigger-new-diabetes-experts-say-11592121316874.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/coronavirus-scarface-rapper-kidney-failure-recovery-health-covid-19-a9568281.html?utm_source=reddit.com

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/british-pilot-able-to-talk-practices-walking-4116348.html

This is just a quick google search.  There are scores of these cases popping up every day.

Edited by Quietmaninthecorner
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13 hours ago, Mikey said:

Indeed they can mutate. So far there has been no mention of this Wuhan Virus mutating. Except for your German link, (I don't read German), the links speak of not as many antibodies, not zero antibodies. Perhaps there aren't as many, but some antibodies for a virus that's mild in most cases anyway should pretty much remove any cause for worry.

With the flu shot, they say "You might still get the flu but it won't be nearly as bad". If something that's not very bad in young people anyway is going to be "not as bad" Ithink the response should be to carry on as normal.

Another quick google search shows hundreds of these articles. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3089771/coronavirus-may-be-here-much-longer-due-rapid-mutations

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-mutation-and-covid-19

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/news/mutation-of-coronavirus-is-significantly-increasing-its-ability-to-infect-336067

https://www.fox8live.com/2020/06/16/lsu-study-shows-mutated-strain-covid-is-more-infectious/

ETC ETC ETC....

None of them say it is less dangerous.  Which usually happens in a mutation but not always.

.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Quietmaninthecorner

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5 hours ago, Mikey said:

I'd really like to see figures based on "getting sick" rather than "tested positive". With this virus, many if not most that test positive don't even know they've got the bug. I don't doubt that asymptomatic people spread the virus during the time they are actively infected and the several days that led up to that. Once that period has passed they likely are no longer spreading it.

Yep I agree. This virus still has so many unknowns up to this point. They are still testing and studying the virus itself to see how it acts and well as genetic makeup of asymptomatic people. Going to be a while before they figure it all out. My son is a scientist with NIST in DC and he is specifically working on this virus and has been for months. It is not your normal virus..

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Honestly, the response will tell a lot. The fact is, it will be unbelievably unrealistic to stop the spread, once sports begins. Now, some schools have decided to stop summer practices I believe to diminish the spread. If this is the case, then I can definitely see the football season being compromised. I honestly want to see how the NBA or NHL leagues respond once several of their players test positive. 

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13 hours ago, DAG said:

The fact is, it will be unbelievably unrealistic to stop the spread, once sports begins.

Agree, but we aren't going to stop the spread regardless of sports. We may (and to some extent have) slowed the spread and that's about all humanity can do, short of an effective vaccine.

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The media is so consumed with their agenda and the social issues, real updates using data that is explained critically  (not hypothetically) is not being shared.  

 

I believe the virus is nasty, but for less than a half percent of those infected, which is good.  Unfortunately, the long term effects are unknown.

 

I guess watching Walter read the news and the news being reliable is from a bygone era.  I am thankful my family is healthy and I pray for all of the AuFamily and those afflicted. 

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On 6/20/2020 at 12:31 AM, Mikey said:

That's very good news for Clemson. Even if they are having symptoms now, by time for football they will be over it and not having to worry about it again.

PS: I wish these reports would state which test they "tested positive" for. If it's the nasal swab, then they are currently active. If it's the blood test, then they have already had the virus (whether they knew it or not), have the antibodies in their system and are good to go without worries for the future.

While at a regular doctor visit last week, I inquired about the efficacy of the current antibody tests available. Unfortunately, since coronavirus is a large family, they are not nearly accurate enough to be definitive. I was actively flying through multiple international airports through December - early March, I wanted to see if I had been exposed.

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On 6/21/2020 at 9:29 AM, Mikey said:

If exposure to the Wuhan Virus doesn't build immunity, it will indeed be "novel"

This tells me everything I need to know.

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I hope I'm wrong, but who's to say other teams won't have that many or more before the season even kicks off. If that's the case, I'm sorry but I just don't see how you can have football in 2020.

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On 6/19/2020 at 11:31 PM, Mikey said:

If it's the blood test, then they have already had the virus (whether they knew it or not), have the antibodies in their system and are good to go without worries for the future.

Unfortunately, this is not entirely correct. The antibody tests have not had the specificity for SARS-CoV2 necessary to imply immunity to the “COVID” virus from a positive antibody test. A conversation worth reading with Mike Saag, a well-known and respected ID doctor at UAB:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/930052?src=wnl_tp10f_200618_mscpedit&uac=358153HJ&impID=2424329

 

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13 hours ago, Mikey said:

Agree, but we aren't going to stop the spread regardless of sports. We may (and to some extent have) slowed the spread and that's about all humanity can do, short of an effective vaccine.

Correct. This is why I think the response is so important. It is a foregone conclusion that multiple players will get the virus (Asymptomatic or not).  I am really interested in seeing how the NBA or MLB will handle this. Of course it is depending on if the NBA will actually have a season or not. I will say that, it is going to take someone to whether the storm when it hits. Accountability will be key and I don't know how far people will want to be accountable for potential harm passed exposure. We already see tOSU trying to pass the buck by having players sign waivers. 

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