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Debate and Discourse, Not Propaganda


DKW 86

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I have to admit something here. I have real trouble dealing with these staged propaganda events. It is a flaw of mine. If I know that you are capable of gross untruths, then I cannot see ever believing you. How can I know when the Hyperbole ends and the Truth comes back in? I cant. Maybe it is a part of me being a visual learner? Maybe. But there are just images that haunt me.

Image may contain: 2 people, text that says 'Such pain... Such anguish... Oh, the humanity! Psyche! It's just an empty parking lot.'

This is the kind of rubbish we need out of the Media. Photo-Ops that are staged propaganda events. BTW, AOC still defeated the Democrat Incumbent even after these pics were exposed.

In a strange way the church and bible photo-op for DJT was just reaffirmation of what I saw in him 30 years ago. Carnie-Barker BS Artist. I know some will point to 10,000 documented lies and say "WTH Dave?" Maybe I have grown accustomed to the HEARING the lies from both parties for so long that I just dont pay attention anymore. And lets face facts, politicians make rhetorical mistakes 24-7. Pelosi, Trump, Biden are all in the throes of some level of dementia to me. They have all made "WTF? Statements" in the last 4 years. Granted DJT has an assembly line and a twitter account to manufacture his. But below, that is as BS as has ever been in American Politics. That is a man that doesnt even have a driveby association with the book in his hand. Shame on you if you ever thought he did. You bought the propaganda. That is obviously a back of the pew copy of a Bible. Cheaply made, well worn on the outside, but the binding is not broken from use. 

That is, to me, far more telling than the AOC Pics. 

Trump Denounced for Using the Bible As a Prop

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To me AOC was much worse, as at the time, she was the fresh face of the Democratic Party and her personality was the talk of the town.  Several publications opined her sincerity and intelligence to the point they made excuses for the unbelievable stupid thing she said.  She is the typical New Yorker, all bluster and no substance.  She is more like Trump at an early age.

Trump has been the *carnie-barker* for a long time and most people know it.  It’s not the person that most conservatives would want in the White House, but the policies are what’s important.  

All politicians use the photo op, some are better than others at it, the difference is how the media presents the photo op.  Trump was soundly beaten around the head and shoulders for his Bible thumping while AOC was praised until the real photos showed up and the media has to address it and most didn’t.

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AOC is raw but getting better. Her committee stuff is by and large very good. She does put her foot in her mouth on occasion, but I can see that getting rarer with more seasoning. She could be a great standard bearer for the progressive movement going forward.

The meme David posted is bull****, by the way.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/22/viral-image/no-isnt-photo-aoc-crying-over-parking-lot/

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7 minutes ago, AUDub said:

AOC is raw but getting better. Her committee stuff is by and large very good. She does put her foot in her mouth on occasion, but I can see that getting rarer with more seasoning. She could be a great standard bearer for the progressive movement going forward.

The meme David posted is bull****, by the way.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/22/viral-image/no-isnt-photo-aoc-crying-over-parking-lot/

Dave posted something that's complete BS and got duped by the internet?  When has that ever happened?!  (Insert sarcasm emoji here)

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OMG, https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/22/viral-image/no-isnt-photo-aoc-crying-over-parking-lot/

That was so weak...
1) The fake pics were taken in June 25 2018. She got elected in Nov 2018. She was not a Congress Person and did not get entry into the Tornillo Facility. As Politifact states, only the then Congressmen gained access. 
2) Her vision was...a driveway & parking lot for the vehicles at the Checkpoint. She never got closer than several hundred yards (several football fields away) from the then TENT CITY. 
3) Who did she see? The guards and workers going in and out. The chances she saw some children from several hundred yards away. Small at best. 
4) What did the Tent City look like? I mean if she could have actually seen anything but some buildings from several football fields away?
U.S. military to build 6 tent cities near border for migrants ...

Looks like a very nice version of every military base I have ever been on. Cant you just see the horror she witnessed??????

Rep. Will Hurd: No more documented migrants at Tornillo facility ...

The Soccer Field where the American Govt beat the children with horse whips...or maybe the children just played soccer?

A Tent City for Children Detained at the Border: Photos - The Atlantic

See all the trash and human waste they lived in. They camouflaged it all as Trees & Air Conditioners.....

Tornillo tent shelter to stay open 30 days, no increase in capacity

Those of that are squeamish should avert our eyes here. I mean Mexican Peasants living in New-Clean-Air Conditioned Tents. The Horror...

Inside the Vast Tent City Housing Migrant Children in a Texas ...

Pure Evil...

Inside the Tornillo 'Tent City' Housing Migrant Children – NBC New ...

The horrible medical conditions...

As 'Caravan' Crosses Mexico, Trump's 'Temporary' Tent City For ...

Notice how these arent the Obama Era Cages...

Hundreds of migrant children held in U.S. tent city for months ...

Doing school work...

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Wow! I never remember seeing those pictures when the media was talking about the atrocities at the facility. Thanks for sharing DKW!

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Trying to find the actual tweet. Everything I get has been edited to some degree but you can get the jist of it.

“I’ll never forget this, because it was the moment I saw with my own eyes that the America I love was becoming a nation that steals refugee children from their parents, & caged them.”

“More kids died after this. To date, no one has been held accountable. We need to save these kids.”

Big step toward reuniting - San Antonio Express, 6/25/2018Democrat Ocasio-Cortez Staged "Crying for Caged Children" Photos ...

 

 

Does an Image Show Ocasio-Cortez Fake-Crying at a Migrant Camp?AOC was actually facing an empty parking lot during emotional ...

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Accused of Holding 'Photo Op' in ...

Ocasio-Cortez understands a key feature of the economy in a way ...

Just curious, but does anyone see any children here in these pics? The ones AOC claims in her tweet to be looking at? 
Or are the pics just about her and her friends?

Please do not overreact here. I like most of what she has done and the pressure she is putting on Pelosi and the DNC is very nice and appreciated. She has actually gone to the trouble of ACTUALLY PUTTING SOMETHING ON PAPER AND PROPOSING SOMETHING. GND, etc. Some of our politicians in DC have been there 30 years and done less work than she has done in 2 years.  

But these pics are just as advertised. Pretty much propaganda from a person that challenged and BEAT an incumbent Democrat Congressman. And, she survived the fall out over them as well. But dont try and gaslight this. It was bad. But as was said above, she is learning and learning quick. I could easily see her as Speaker in a few years. She is improving at light speed.

 

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So does the Left no longer care about caging these poor people and raping and killing them or is Trump now running a facility that treats the homeland-disadvantaged people with respect?

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4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

So does the Left no longer care about caging these poor people and raping and killing them or is Trump now running a facility that treats the homeland-disadvantaged people with respect?

This is not optimal and I dont think anyone would want this for any real time. There is nothing good about this. But for a penniless Mexican Immigrant, Three Squares, a bed nicer than they probably have at home, Air Conditioning, Showers, Toilets, Washing Machines and Driers. This is a not too bad temp solution. 

Let me just add that the Tornillo Facility is not the worst. Some were I am sure really nasty.
BUT, It was just the facility where AOC went for her OOOHHH SSSSOOO EEEEMMMOOOTTTIIIOONNNAAALLLL Photo-op.

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23 hours ago, Grumps said:

So does the Left no longer care about caging these poor people and raping and killing them or is Trump now running a facility that treats the homeland-disadvantaged people with respect?

what good did it do. most of you across the aisle had little to no problems with it so why you want to point at libs is beyond me. lets see what happens when trump loses. hell right now trumps own people cannot make him do anything.

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On 7/12/2020 at 10:10 AM, DKW 86 said:

This is not optimal and I dont think anyone would want this for any real time. There is nothing good about this. But for a penniless Mexican Immigrant, Three Squares, a bed nicer than they probably have at home, Air Conditioning, Showers, Toilets, Washing Machines and Driers. This is a not too bad temp solution. 

Let me just add that the Tornillo Facility is not the worst. Some were I am sure really nasty.
BUT, It was just the facility where AOC went for her OOOHHH SSSSOOO EEEEMMMOOOTTTIIIOONNNAAALLLL Photo-op.

you know let me ask this after some more thought. what if aoc really is upset about the families locked up? did she have the funds to go across country when running for office? so she staged a photo op to get her point and thoughts across. to me that is almost brilliant. i mean she did not gas anyone for the photo op right? in a time where trump gets nothing but love from his followers i consider what aoc did a little white lie to get her point across with the budget she had. does that make any sense? i guess maybe if she was attacking a facility that treated their folks fine it might be a bad look. and it helped her get elected. hell trump promised a million things. showing his tax returns. making pot legal and removing it from the same category as heroin. also after she was elected and had funds to travel did she go down again for a real look see?   lol i sound like a dang trump supporter huh?

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Stoking emotions for political favor has always been a go-to move, even if it is pathetic. Hyperbole and false outrage garner votes.  Both sides know it and use it effectively. 

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But where does it end? At some point, we have to have real discussions. We cant go off and live in fantasy land, day after day, year after year. At some point we have to sit down and act like grownups. But how can you do that when you KNOW the person sitting across from you cant be trusted? 

I have said this before and i will say it going forward that the problems we have now started with Rush, Hannity, and Fox. They went so over the top that now, hell anything is acceptable on either side. Pizza House slave traders to Every man with a gun is about to shoot up a school. How do you talk with someone that you know is just as likely to turn around and ruin you with smears and lies from their paid for twitter army? 

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3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

But where does it end? At some point, we have to have real discussions. We cant go off and live in fantasy land, day after day, year after year. At some point we have to sit down and act like grownups. But how can you do that when you KNOW the person sitting across from you cant be trusted? 

I have said this before and i will say it going forward that the problems we have now started with Rush, Hannity, and Fox. They went so over the top that now, hell anything is acceptable on either side. Pizza House slave traders to Every man with a gun is about to shoot up a school. How do you talk with someone that you know is just as likely to turn around and ruin you with smears and lies from their paid for twitter army? 

newt is the guy i think started it along with bill o'reilly. but i just wanted to be your huckleberry so you could say what you have to say. if i had my way there would be honor and fairness and truth or they are removed. hell we allowed this. we allowed dirty money. we allow them to do what they want to do instead of what the american people want. i have no idea what the solution is but i am all for it. but as much hell as i give the repubs i would have voted for gov k in a heartbeat unless some last minute thing cam up. i hope he runs again. i forget what all he did but his state was in shambles and it seems he straightened it out with the least amount of pain he could. thats what i want.

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3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

But where does it end? At some point, we have to have real discussions. We cant go off and live in fantasy land, day after day, year after year. At some point we have to sit down and act like grownups. But how can you do that when you KNOW the person sitting across from you cant be trusted? 

I have said this before and i will say it going forward that the problems we have now started with Rush, Hannity, and Fox. They went so over the top that now, hell anything is acceptable on either side. Pizza House slave traders to Every man with a gun is about to shoot up a school. How do you talk with someone that you know is just as likely to turn around and ruin you with smears and lies from their paid for twitter army? 

I don't think we will get to the point where we will sit down and act like grownups. Look at this forum. You remember when there was actually an exchange of ideas here, but you rarely see it now. If WE can't have a civil discussion when we at least share a common love for Auburn, then how in the world can we expect people who won't admit ANY commonality with those who disagree with them to try to have an honest exchange of ideas.

The Left went after Bush II pretty hard. Then the Right stayed on Obama probably even worse. Now the hatred and willingness to vilify Trump is off the charts. If Trump wins in November I would be surprised if there are NOT riots. I see no reason to think that the Right won't try to be even worse when the next Dem is in the White House. What is the motivation for anyone to change?

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11 hours ago, Grumps said:

The Right went after Clinton to the point that they may have created the term "Derangement Syndrome." The Left went after Bush II pretty hard. Then the Right stayed on Obama probably even worse. Now the hatred and willingness to vilify Trump is off the charts. If Trump wins in November I would be surprised if there are NOT riots. I see no reason to think that the Right won't try to be even worse when the next Dem is in the White House. What is the motivation for anyone to change?

This is the timeline in my head. Glad you see it too. The pendulum just started swinging farther and farther with every turn. 
Reps Hate on WJC.
Dems Hate on Bush43.
Reps Hate on Obama.
Dems go off the road Hating on DJT. (Yea, he deserves about 90%+ of it too.)

But folks we have to get back to the table. We have to get back and talk about real things that matter. Your parents suffering on SS and Medicare aint going to get fixed while everyone is arguing. Children starving in America, aint going to get fixed while everyone's head is buried in a Hate Fest Cancel Culture Journey over the next poor dumb person to act like...a HUMAN and screw up, just like we all do. 

We should be aiming the gun at the Epsteins, the Military-Industrial Complex, the Prison-Industrial Complex, etc.
We should be celebrating that Actual Violent Crime, and Crime in general is dropping across the USA, even tho the MSM, The Fear Merchants of the 21st Century do not want you to notice that. 
We should be aiming at the 1%ers that get richer everyday, and the blue collar workers who canot afford healthcare for their kids. Newsflash, their kids are just as worthwhile as ours. 
We should be building a Public Educational System that is a National Treasure, a National Asset.
Instead we are left worrying about how to make the 1%ers even more wealthy, by building then latest and greatest weapon system. You know, we borrow money we do not have to build a weapon system to use against an enemy we cant name. I got a perfect idea for you. The new F35: We need to name it the Maginot Fighter. In God's Cosmic Laugh Factory, I just bet we are building a new plane that wont be worth anything in the next great war...if we ever have another one. 

The F-35 currently costs between $94 million (F-35A) and $122 million (F-35B) for low-rate initial production run 10, though sustainment cost projections are as big a concern as production costs for a program that is expected to cost $1.5 trillion over its 55-year lifespan.

We rank 15th or Lower in Overall Education in STEM Subjects worldwide. I got an idea, why dont we push the F35 back and build just a few of them and take that $1.5BN and invest it in our kids? Cant do that!!!!! The Conservatives are already to spit venom at me for telling the truth that America doesnt need another weapon system. Hell, people, militarily, we are the Romans, the Third Reich, etc on Steroids. There is likely no nation in the world that could sustain a real life war with us for more than two years. most couldnt last 6 months. We outspend every other nation in the world militarily.

Military_Expenditures_2018_SIPRI.png

Maybe we could fine tune the AntiCrime Areas even more?
Feed some Kids?
Buy Grandma and Grandpa some meds?
Raise the standard of living for the Middle Class?

But before we get there, we have to stop the Kneejerk Reactionary Political Party Rim Job that passes for political discourse today., RIGHT and LEFT.
If we could recite Eisenhower's 1956 Platform to them, most Conservatives would stop listening to Rush & Hannity and the Mythology of the American Rugged Individualist. Most Rush, Hannity, Levin, Infowars, Breitbart fans would likely spontaneously combust because the facts do not mirror or validate their now very twisted thinking.  

Quote

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/oct/28/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/

Here are the seven planks listed in the meme, which to today’s ear sound more like Democratic talking points:

1. Provide federal assistance to low-income communities;

2. Protect Social Security;

3. Provide asylum for refugees;

4. Extend minimum wage;

5. Improve unemployment benefit system so it covers more people;

6. Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union;

7. Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of sex.

 

My God, half of America would spontaneously explode if they actually intellectually read that...Or maybe they would wake up to the reality?

The Dems? Well, I got news for them. Did you know that there are actually very good people that are Conservatives. Some might be misguided etc, but...

Did you know that not every Republican Voter was a RUSSIANS!!! owned Lacky-Nazi-Racist-Sexist-Homophobic-Qanon-4chan-Altright-Demon straight from the pits of hell? Really, did you know? Some of us have sincerely quit asking. 

Lee Atwater, Legendary Truly Demonic Republican Strategist made Demonization of the Left his life's work. Funny thing, when he was about to die, maybe he got to see where all that got us in 2020. He pointedly went back and apologized...to people he had destroyed and ruined politically and personally. Atwater laid the ground for the political poison we see now. Something we are paying for in spades today.

We cant talk to Conservatives...NO! We must Cancel Culture and Shame Them...Forever...Amen! The first to accuse is the winner!!!!! The first to smear is in the lead!!! Forget America, Forget our Parents, Forget our Kids, Forget our Friends and Coworkers. Forget it all. We must Accuse, Smear, Scream, Cancel. 

Oh yea, we need them to help us pass the legislation we need to make the nation heal and get better. Forget that! War!!! We must win at all costs!!!

The only problem with "Winning at All Costs" is it really looks more and more like "Mutually Assured Destruction."

I have begun to read more and more from Vidal and listen to more and more Carlin. Listen to Carlin, he died in 2008. Listen to his views from WAY BACK THEN...Language Warning, my point starts at 1:20.

 

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