The Runoff

[TitanTiger 20,469]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

LSU game and the bowl games are pretty solid comparisons too 😉 

I was thinking more about underperforming against mediocre teams.  LSU and our bowl game were against very good opponents both times, which will usually be close games.

 

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

But you're right about the offense in totality.  2004's was superior to 2006 in every way imaginable.

This is where we disagree.  We had more than a shot.  Hold court against a mediocre UGA team and we're in Atlanta playing for the right to go to the natty.  Never forget that UGA took a mercy knee on our four yard line that day because they beat us like a drum.

I think our lack of passing threat was bound to create matchup problems in a game or two that year.  At some point, some team or two on the  schedule will have the personnel and a gameplan to take away what you like to do and are best at.  You have to be able to make them pay for that decision.  I just don't think Cox and that WR corp were capable of doing that.  You also need an offense that can play from behind because inevitably you'll have one of those games where you dig yourself a hole from dumb mistakes and flat play or something.  The 2006 offense was effective if we didn't turn the ball over and the defense was on that day.  If we stayed within a score or played ahead, great.  Get down by a couple of TDs and they weren't potent enough to get back in it.  Contrast that with 2010 - go down 24-0 to a very good Alabama team on the road and still came back to win, even with a very much below average defense being called on to not let the game get any more out of hand.  Pair the 2006 offense with that defense and we lose the Iron Bowl 48-0.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

UGA took a mercy knee on our four yard line that day because they beat us like a drum.

My bama buddies really enjoyed watching that game with me. It will never not make me sick to my stomach. One of my lowest moments as an Auburn fan. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

I was thinking more about underperforming against mediocre teams.  LSU and our bowl game were against very good opponents both times, which will usually be close games.

 

Nebraska was far from a very good opponent.  They went 9-5 (won the Big 12 North despite having two conference losses) and one of those victories was in OT over 6-6 Kansas.

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

I think our lack of passing threat was bound to create matchup problems in a game or two that year.  At some point, some team or two on the  schedule will have the personnel and a gameplan to take away what you like to do and are best at.  You have to be able to make them pay for that decision.  I just don't think Cox and that WR corp were capable of doing that.  You also need an offense that can play from behind because inevitably you'll have one of those games where you dig yourself a hole from dumb mistakes and flat play or something.  The 2006 offense was effective if we didn't turn the ball over and the defense was on that day.  If we stayed within a score or played ahead, great.  Get down by a couple of TDs and they weren't potent enough to get back in it.  Contrast that with 2010 - go down 24-0 to a very good Alabama team on the road and still came back to win, even with a very much below average defense being called on to not let the game get any more out of hand.  Pair the 2006 offense with that defense and we lose the Iron Bowl 48-0.

That's all well and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that we had a legitimate shot at a championship and blew it on our home field by losing to an inferior UGA team that went 4-4 in SEC play.  Cox was awful that day, but there's no excuse for losing 37-15 with a senior laden offensive line and returning QB.  And the D got cut through like a hot knife goes through butter.

I watched a team show up unprepared to play twice that season.  That's the problem I'll always have with 2006.  We got a mulligan after getting beat by Arkansas and couldn't capitalize.  It was a golden opportunity and we flat choked.  In many ways, we were in a better position to win a national title in 2006 than we were in 2004.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

My bama buddies really enjoyed watching that game with me. It will never not make me sick to my stomach. One of my lowest moments as an Auburn fan. 

It still makes me want to puke.  A friggin mercy knee on our own four yard line.  Such a slap in the face.

[TitanTiger 20,469]

2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Nebraska was far from a very good opponent.  They went 9-5 (won the Big 12 North despite having two conference losses) and one of those victories was in OT over 6-6 Kansas.

That's all well and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that we had a legitimate shot at a championship and blew it on our home field by losing to an inferior UGA team that went 4-4 in SEC play.  Cox was awful that day, but there's no excuse for losing 37-15 with a senior laden offensive line and returning QB.  And the D got cut through like a hot knife goes through butter.

I watched a team show up unprepared to play twice that season.  That's the problem I'll always have with 2006.  We got a mulligan after getting beat by Arkansas and couldn't capitalize.  It was a golden opportunity and we flat choked.  In many ways, we were in a better position to win a national title in 2006 than we were in 2004.

I think we were fortunate to have a shot.  It just wasn't a great team.  If I'm being honest, I think the 2005 squad was better.  Just had some bad luck (LSU) and a bit of a letdown in the bowl game in Brandon's first year under center.

[homersapien 11,352]

Well, it doesn't take long for a political thread to become a football thread when an Auburn ex-coach runs for the senate. 

 

[AUwent 3,747]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:43 AM, TitanTiger said:

That's literally the only similarity in the 2004 and 2006 seasons.  We flat dominated 9 of the 13 opponents we played and had a tougher schedule.

 

Disagree. I hate to admit it but our schedule in 2004 was fairly weak.

But yeah the 2006 offense suffered greatly from the loss of Aromashadu, Obomanu and Mix. Still technically a very good season.

[AUDub 11,131]

5 hours ago, AUwent said:

Disagree. I hate to admit it but our schedule in 2004 was fairly weak.

Had a better résumé than USCw and Oklahoma though. They only got in because of inertia from the previous year and going wire to wire. 

[TitanTiger 20,469]

5 hours ago, AUwent said:

Disagree. I hate to admit it but our schedule in 2004 was fairly weak.

But yeah the 2006 offense suffered greatly from the loss of Aromashadu, Obomanu and Mix. Still technically a very good season.

Our non-conference slate was worse in 2004, but only on the strength of playing a mediocre Washington State instead of La Monroe.  The others were a push.

The conference games where 2006 was tougher were Florida (eventual national champs instead of Kentucky), LSU (9-3 in 2004 vs 11-2 in 2006) and Arkansas (5-6 vs 10-4).

The conference games that were a push were Bama, Ole Miss and Miss. State (almost identical records both seasons for both)

But where 2004 had the advantage was that we played a top ten Tennessee team twice (once at Neyland and once in the SECCG) instead of an ok South Carolina squad from the East, we played a top ten UGA team (finished 10-2 vs 9-4 in 2006), and also played a top ten Virginia Tech in our bowl game instead of #17 Nebraska.

So in the end we basically played three really tough teams/games in 2006 while playing four in 2004.  I'll allow for the schedules being considered equal, but there's no way I'd put the 2006 schedule above 2004.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

Also remember that the Citadel in 2004 was a replacement for Bowling Green, a respectable mid-major (9-3 in 2004) who, ironically, bailed on us to play Oklahoma instead. We caught a LOT of grief for that, but if I remember correctly, that switch was pretty late, and finding a respectable replacement was going to be next to impossible.

LSU was a brain-dead Hail Mary in their bowl game against Iowa away from being 10-2 in 2004, too.

2006 was kind of a missed opportunity, I suppose, but I had never looked at it that way. I don't know that I would have been overly confident in a rematch on a neutral field against Florida, even if we had gotten there. The Gators weren't invincible, admittedly...they played several close games, too. Needed to block a FG to scrape by South Carolina. I felt like the 11-2 record from 2006 was pretty much maxing out our potential that year.

In terms of talent, 2006 to me had less compared to 2004 and 2005.

[AUwent 3,747]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

Had a better résumé than USCw and Oklahoma though. They only got in because of inertia from the previous year and going wire to wire. 

Obviously we would've played Oklahoma in the semifinals if there had been a playoff. USCw would've probably had a rematch with UC Berkeley. Ah what could've been...

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

 

In terms of talent, 2006 to me had less compared to 2004 and 2005.

Well not many teams have as much as much talent as the 2004 squad.  But talent doesn't equate to the opportunity.

2004 AU never had an chance to control its own destiny.  2006 AU did.  That's the difference and why I view it as a missed opportunity, because over the course of AU football history, the ability to control our own fate is a rare occurrence.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

Well not many teams have as much as much talent as the 2004 squad.  But talent doesn't equate to the opportunity.

2004 AU never had an chance to control its own destiny.  2006 AU did.  That's the difference and why I view it as a missed opportunity, because over the course of AU football history, the ability to control our own fate is a rare occurrence.

After the loss to Arkansas, we had to hope they lost two conference games, which they didn't (went 7-1 in league). Beating Georgia wouldn't have gotten us to the SECCG, so we would have been 11-1 and hoping that Florida lost to Arkansas, and then hoping that we would have gotten the nod over 11-1 Michigan...that might've worked out in our favor, might not have.

Controlling our own destiny ended in early October, which is maybe another reason why I don't view 2006 as a big "what if." I think we squeezed all of the juice we could out of that particular orange.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

43 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

After the loss to Arkansas, we had to hope they lost two conference games, which they didn't (went 7-1 in league). Beating Georgia wouldn't have gotten us to the SECCG, so we would have been 11-1 and hoping that Florida lost to Arkansas, and then hoping that we would have gotten the nod over 11-1 Michigan...that might've worked out in our favor, might not have.

Controlling our own destiny ended in early October, which is maybe another reason why I don't view 2006 as a big "what if." I think we squeezed all of the juice we could out of that particular orange.

Which is why I still lament the UF game.  We were the #2 team in the country before we lost to Arkansas.  We absolutely had fate in our hands during the season.  At no point could 2004 say that.

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:36 AM, AUDub said:

Had a better résumé than USCw and Oklahoma though. They only got in because of inertia from the previous year and going wire to wire. 

Correct. Inertia, they never lost, major name programs... I mean, even this Trevor Lawrence version of Clemson can't compare to that mid-aughts USC program in terms of rock star appeal. If ESPN keeps putting out 30 for 30s, there will definitely be one about Pete Carrol's run at USC. And Oklahoma wasn't far behind. *Everyone* wanted that matchup except Auburn fans and that's how things were still decided back then. 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Correct. Inertia, they never lost, major name programs... I mean, even this Trevor Lawrence version of Clemson can't compare to that mid-aughts USC program in terms of rock star appeal. If ESPN keeps putting out 30 for 30s, there will definitely be one about Pete Carrol's run at USC. And Oklahoma wasn't far behind. *Everyone* wanted that matchup except Auburn fans and that's how things were still decided back then. 

The 2004 team paid for the "sins" of the 2003 team underachieving, imo. '03 team was highly ranked to begin the season, and got embarrassed multiple times, including the shutout loss to USC. 

2004 squad is a "Champions without portfolio" group. The system screwed them, but all you can do is win them all, and I've been privileged enough to see that happen 3 times. 

What is beyond dispute, to sort of bring this back full circle, is Tubs' ability to create animated dialogue among the fan base. This has been pretty respectful, and I don't think any of us have chartered a flight to look for his replacement...yet. 😎

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

What is beyond dispute, to sort of bring this back full circle, is Tubs' ability to create animated dialogue among the fan base.

What a perfectly understated but accurate sentence.