‘It was like being preyed upon’: Portland protesters say federal officers in unmarked vans are detaining them

[homersapien 11,357]

13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is the biggest statement I have ever read.  Wearing black at night in the area of a protest would take a little forethought.

Look at me, I am soooooo innocent. 

Since when is walking home late at night - or early in the morning - against the law?

Since when is attending a protest probable cause?

Speaking of BS, you are so full of it.   You deserve to be a victim of an oppressive government.  I don't.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

There’s literally no awful thing this administration can do that some here will not minimize, excuse, ignore, or actively praise. He cannot ever go too far. 

[AUDub 11,147]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

There’s literally no awful thing this administration can do that some here will not minimize, excuse, ignore, or actively praise. He cannot ever go too far. 

I often ask myself "where do they find people willing to do this s***?"

Some posters on this forum offer ample explanation.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You deserve to be a victim of an oppressive government.  I don't.

I have never been a victim of an oppressive government and take responsibility for my actions.  I do respect authority and if a cop arrests me for what ever reason I will comply and work out the details in the courthouse.

8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Since when is walking home late at night - or early in the morning - against the law?

Since when is attending a protest probable cause?

It’s not against the law and attending a protest isn’t probable cause.  I would think the police had enough probable cause to take him into custody, you just don’t know what it was from the information you received. If he was falsely detained, his lawyer will have a case.

[homersapien 11,357]

42 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is the biggest statement I have ever read.  Wearing black at night in the area of a protest would take a little forethought.

Look at me, I am soooooo innocent. 

You are full of it.

Since when is walking down a street on the way home constitute probable cause?  Is walking down the street illegal?   Is he "guilty" of walking down the street? (As you infer)

Since when does attending a protest illegal?  Does such a legal act as attending a protest constitute probable cause?  Is he "guilty" for attending a protest? (As you infer)

Since when is wearing black clothes against the law?  He's he guilty of wearing black clothes? (As you infer.)

You are apparently supportive of random apprehensions occurring in "an area of a protest".

You deserve to be victimized by an authoritarian government who ignores your constitutional rights. 

All your fear about "mob rule", communistic socialism, or whatever nonsense you are afraid of pales in your disregard for the actual illegal actions of the current government, which you mindlessly support.

Trump desperately wants authoritarian power.  You are a useful fool that's ready to give it to him.

 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

In no way does that suggest he's not a far, clearly better option than trump. "Not as good as we should have done" doesn't equal "Not good enough".

This is a logical misstep that way too many otherwise intelligent people are making and it belies an underlying, emotional bias.

"Not as good as we should have done" is not what I said.  He may be the worst we could have done.

It isn't an emotional bias, it's a direct observation.  The guy is too damn old, way too creepy, possibly a complete idiot and definitely has shown signs of early onset dementia.

With ~330 million people, our choices for POTUS should never end up with him as a candidate....nor Trump FWIW.  Yet, here we are again.  He is NOT good enough. 

[homersapien 11,357]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I have never been a victim of an oppressive government and take responsibility for my actions.  I do respect authority and if a cop arrests me for what ever reason I will comply and work out the details in the courthouse.

It’s not against the law and attending a protest isn’t probable cause.  I would think the police had enough probable cause to take him into custody, you just don’t know what it was from the information you received. If he was falsely detained, his lawyer will have a case.

Try to put yourself in the victim's shoes.  I know it's hard, but just try.

He's walking home and unidentified men in military gear jump out of an unmarked car apprehend him and drag him into the car.

And they weren't the local police. 

They could just as easily have been a right wing militia planning to murder him.

And they didn't have s*** for PC.  If they did, they would be telling us by now, just to excuse the reaction this has and will provoke.  The mayor has stated they are unwanted.  That should tell you something about their methods.

But in your mind, it's hey, no problem.  I'll let my lawyer work it out later. (And hopefully, you do understand that lawyer would cost you, no matter how innocent you are.)

You are really someone who needs to experience this sort of thing personally.  Maybe then you stop making excuses for it happening.

 

[homersapien 11,357]

On 7/18/2020 at 12:36 PM, johnnyAU said:

"Not as good as we should have done" is not what I said.  He may be the worst we could have done.

It isn't an emotional bias, it's a direct observation.  The guy is too damn old, way too creepy, possibly a complete idiot and definitely has shown signs of early onset dementia.

With ~330 million people, our choices for POTUS should never end up with him as a candidate....nor Trump FWIW.  Yet, here we are again.  He is NOT good enough. 

Uh, hate to break it to you, but we have two choices, Biden or Trump.

And your characterization of Biden is WAY off-base.  Apparently you haven't been paying attention to him at all.

Trump on the other hand......  We know what he is:  an immature, narcissistic, psychopathic, lying, antiscience conman who wants authoritarian power.

There is absolutely no equivalency.  None.

Biden will make a fine POTUS, maybe even a great one considering the mess he'll inherit.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

And your characterization of Biden is WAY off-base

No, we had many other choices than Biden. 

LOL. The characterization is SPOT on. Biden is a puppet, and a fool. He brings nothing to the WH, other than hopes he'll step down early in his first term and let the VP take over.  You don't even know who that would be yet. That's how bad of a selection he is.  It doesn't even matter.  TDS is alive and well when you can clearly look the other way with Biden, just because you just want some organism with a pulse.  

[SocialCircle 570]

2 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

No, we had many other choices than Biden. 

LOL. The characterization is SPOT on. Biden is a puppet, and a fool. He brings nothing to the WH, other than hopes he'll step down early in his first term and let the VP take over.  You don't even know who that would be yet. That's how bad of a selection he is.  It doesn't even matter.  TDS is alive and well when you can clearly look the other way with Biden, just because you just want some organism with a pulse.  

Likely Biden’s biggest decision is who will be his running mate because of his age. He isn’t even necessarily taking the best person for the job. He already eliminated all males from consideration before even looking at potential choices. So it appears for his most important decision  he decided to eliminate at least close to 50% of the population from consideration and perhaps even the vast majority of people from being considered because it appears he is focusing only on African- American women. This tells me a great deal about his lack of ability to make solid important decisions. I do not think it is best for our country to have someone with this thought process as our president. 

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Try to put yourself in the victim's shoes.  I know it's hard, but just try.

He's walking home and unidentified men in military gear jump out of an unmarked car apprehend him and drag him into the car.

And they weren't the local police. 

They could just as easily have been a right wing militia planning to murder him.

And they didn't have s*** for PC.  If they did, they would be telling us by now, just to excuse the reaction this has and will provoke.  The mayor has stated they are unwanted.  That should tell you something about their methods.

But in your mind, it's hey, no problem.  I'll let my lawyer work it out later. (And hopefully, you do understand that lawyer would cost you, no matter how innocent you are.)

You are really someone who needs to experience this sort of thing personally.  Maybe then you stop making excuses for it happening.

 

I know they were not the local police, but they weren’t unidentified either, they had COP in big yellow letters on their military gear.  

You can’t know what they had as probable cause, you’re just speculating. I would expect them to tell us what PC they had if questioned by the lawyers and not before.  As for the Mayor, he is worthless and this was a federal building the he was not protecting.

Since he was not arrested and just detained he doesn’t need a lawyer.  If he pursues a legal case against the Federal Government for harassment, he will have lawyers lining up to take the case.  Their pitch will be *if you don’t collect, you don’t pay us a thing*. Isn’t America great?

The only thing this guy has been put out is an hour or two and has a great story to tell his grandkids.

If I were to be falsely accused and I had to have legal representation, I would be a little butthurt, but ultimately winning would ease the pain.  You still have to believe in the system.

Of course if I were guilty, I got what I deserved.

[I_M4_AU 7,789]

6 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Likely Biden’s biggest decision is who will be his running mate because of his age. He isn’t even necessarily taking the best person for the job. He already eliminated all males from consideration before even looking at potential choices. So it appears for his most important decision  he decided to eliminate at least close to 50% of the population from consideration and perhaps even the vast majority of people from being considered because it appears he is focusing only on African- American women. This tells me a great deal about his lack of ability to make solid important decisions. I do not think it is best for our country to have someone with this thought process as our president. 

I really don’t think it is a decision Biden will make.  

[Grumps 3,704]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Then what was it?   What was their probable cause?  Why did they release him?

I think it's funny when you assume this was a legal arrest apprehension.

Apparently, you also think it's "funny" when unbadged federal officers in military gear emerge from an unmarked car, snatch someone off the street and force him into the van.

I also think the notion of you being a citizen who values our constitutional rights is funny. 

Apparently, you think they don't apply to someone exercising their constitutional right to protest.

 

Maybe we should find out what happened before we decide how we feel about it. I don't assume it was legal or illegal.

I do find all of the hypocrisy funny. Some guy claims to have had his civil rights violated. Gosh, what if it helps put an end to the riots and violence? What about the greater good? You don't mind conservatives sacrificing their rights for the greater good but pretend to be outraged when liberals claim to have their rights violated. I agree with you more and more, though. Maybe the anarchy you seek will be a good thing.

But I don't need to say any of this, do I? You already know what I think about everything. You are awesome, homer!

[SaltyTiger 7,782]

Is  there and "end game"  to the protest/riots? List given  of demands  met by the democratic leadership is sadly impressive

   https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/07/08/what-have-six-weeks-of-portland-protests-wrought/

 

June 4: Mayor Ted Wheeler announces he has ousted all school resource officers from the three school districts in the city: Portland Public Schools and the David Douglas and Parkrose districts. PPS Superintendent Guadalupe Guerrero is instrumental in removing the SROs from his district.

June 5: PPB deploys a long-range acoustic device, or LRAD, a sonic weapon that emits a deafening sound to disperse protesters. Wheeler bans the use of sonic weapons.

June 6: Wheeler implements restrictions on the use of tear gas by Portland police but stops short of banning it outright. He says police may only use gas if "there is a serious and immediate threat to life safety, and there is no other viable alternative for dispersal." His restriction follows a federal lawsuit filed by the Black activist group Don't Shoot PDX.

June 8: Portland Police Chief Jami Resch steps down from her post after six months on the job and cedes command to Lt. Chuck Lovell, a Black man and longtime Portland police officer. "He's the exact right person at the exact right moment," Resch says of Lovell.

June 10: Organizers gather in the federal plaza across the street from City Hall and demand $50 million in cuts to the Portland police budget.

 

 

 

June 16: Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill announces his early retirement in the wake of protests against police brutality. Reform-minded DA-Elect Mike Schmidt will take office five months earlier than planned, on Aug. 1.

June 17: By a 3-1 vote, the Portland City Council approves $15 million in cuts to PPB's budget. The lone "no" vote is Commissioner Chloe Eudaly, who calls for even greater cuts to the police budget.

June 25: Hundreds of protesters barricade PPB's North Precinct in an hourslong standoff. Police deploy crowd control munitions like tear gas and rubber bullets. The next day, city leaders, including Wheeler and longtime civil rights activist Ron Herndon, condemn the destruction caused by some protesters.

June 26: The Oregon Legislature, in step with the People of Color Caucus, passes a package of criminal justice reform bills that includes restrictions on chokeholds and a statewide online database for officer misconduct. One bill prohibits the use of tear gas to disperse crowds, except in situations that constitute a riot.

June 30: Protesters surround Portland Police Association headquarters. For the first time since protests began May 29, the bureau declares the protest a riot and deploys tear gas near North Lombard Street.

July 2: Federal agencies, including the U.S. Marshals Service, the Federal Protective Service, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and Homeland Security Investigations, are deployed to Portland protests. Oregon Public Broadcasting reports federal agents made arrests. Multnomah County Jail records reviewed by WW show the U.S. Marshals Service arrested at least nine protesters over the July 4 weekend.

 

 

[homersapien 11,357]

23 hours ago, Grumps said:

Maybe we should find out what happened before we decide how we feel about it. I don't assume it was legal or illegal.

I do find all of the hypocrisy funny. Some guy claims to have had his civil rights violated. Gosh, what if it helps put an end to the riots and violence? What about the greater good? You don't mind conservatives sacrificing their rights for the greater good but pretend to be outraged when liberals claim to have their rights violated. I agree with you more and more, though. Maybe the anarchy you seek will be a good thing.

But I don't need to say any of this, do I? You already know what I think about everything. You are awesome, homer!

Well you claim to know that I "seek anarchy".  

At least my presumptions are based on your actual posts.

I stand by what I said:

Apparently, you think it's "funny" when unbadged federal officers in military gear emerge from an unmarked car, snatch someone off the street and force him into the van.

Apparently, you think our constitutional rights don't apply to someone exercising their right to protest - perhaps arresting protestors "will put an end to the riots and violence"?  Isn't that what you are saying?

Man up and own it.

 

 

[homersapien 11,357]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I know they were not the local police, but they weren’t unidentified either, they had COP in big yellow letters on their military gear.  

You can’t know what they had as probable cause, you’re just speculating. I would expect them to tell us what PC they had if questioned by the lawyers and not before.  As for the Mayor, he is worthless and this was a federal building the he was not protecting.

Since he was not arrested and just detained he doesn’t need a lawyer.  If he pursues a legal case against the Federal Government for harassment, he will have lawyers lining up to take the case.  Their pitch will be *if you don’t collect, you don’t pay us a thing*. Isn’t America great?

The only thing this guy has been put out is an hour or two and has a great story to tell his grandkids.

If I were to be falsely accused and I had to have legal representation, I would be a little butthurt, but ultimately winning would ease the pain.  You still have to believe in the system.

Of course if I were guilty, I got what I deserved.

If they had probable cause, why did they release him?  Why wasn't he arrested and questioned?

Like I said, I hope you have a similar experience - get grabbed off the street for no reason by anonymous, heavily armed men (maybe with a generic "police" on their uniforms) and thrown into an unmarked van.

Hey, it won't cost you but a couple of hours.   

[homersapien 11,357]

3 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

No, we had many other choices than Biden. 

LOL. The characterization is SPOT on. Biden is a puppet, and a fool. He brings nothing to the WH, other than hopes he'll step down early in his first term and let the VP take over.  You don't even know who that would be yet. That's how bad of a selection he is.  It doesn't even matter.  TDS is alive and well when you can clearly look the other way with Biden, just because you just want some organism with a pulse.  

You and maybe a handful of die hard MAGAs really believe that, which makes you the fool.  You probably think Trump is a "very stable genius"?

And again, even if Biden brought NOTHING to the white house, we'd be infinitely better off than with the narcissistic, psychopathic, idiotic, ignorant, conman we have now.

 

 

[Grumps 3,704]

22 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well you claim to know that I "seek anarchy".  

At least my presumptions are based on your actual posts.

I stand by what I said:

Apparently, you think it's "funny" when unbadged federal officers in military gear emerge from an unmarked car, snatch someone off the street and force him into the van.

Apparently, you think our constitutional rights don't apply to someone exercising their constitutional right to protest - perhaps arresting protestors "will put an end to the riots and violence"?  Isn't that what you are saying?

Man up and own it.

 

 

If you going to keep telling me what I think then there is no point in engaging you. I am sure you are 100% right about me.

[homersapien 11,357]

23 minutes ago, Grumps said:

If you going to keep telling me what I think then there is no point in engaging you. I am sure you are 100% right about me.

All I have are your posts to go on. 

If you make a joke or glib remark, I assume you think the subject is funny or not really serious.

If you imply it's OK for federal authorities to abuse an individual rights in a particular case or circumstances,  I can only assume you don't value those rights in general or maybe you think they should be selectively applied (to yourself, for example).

But you can always clarify or explain your actual position instead of digging yourself in deeper.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

You and maybe a handful of die hard MAGAs really believe that, which makes you the fool.  You probably think Trump is a "very stable genius"?

And again, even if Biden brought NOTHING to the white house, we'd be infinitely better off than with the narcissistic, psychopathic, idiotic, ignorant, conman we have now.

 

 

LOL. Says you.

Trump is a narcissistic, power hungry loon. Biden is an unethical simpleton, who is completely out of touch with the nation's youth (and that's anyone under 60), with a touch of dementia and more than a handful of pervert. 

As a country, we should have done better than Trump and Hillary in the last election.  The problem is, we didn't learn from our mistakes.  Instead, we held serve.  Biden may not be the snake Hillary is, but he is about 20 shades dumber than the nearest candidate.  

[TitanTiger 20,472]

4 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

LOL. Says you.

Trump is a narcissistic, power hungry loon. Biden is an unethical simpleton, who is completely out of touch with the nation's youth (and that's anyone under 60), with a touch of dementia and more than a handful of pervert. 

As a country, we should have done better than Trump and Hillary in the last election.  The problem is, we didn't learn from our mistakes.  Instead, we held serve.  Biden may not be the snake Hillary is, but he is about 20 shades dumber than the nearest candidate.  

You vastly underestimate how dumb Trump really is.  He smokescreens it with unearned confidence and bluster.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

8 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Imagine if Obama was sending in unnamed and unbadged federal stormtroopers to round up Tea Party protesters into unmarked cars, over the top of the objections of local governors and mayors.  People here defending it would have been absolutely losing their s***. And no, there wouldn’t be anyone here defending it. 

You mean Whataboutism?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

You mean Whataboutism?

Why do you have such a hard time with the meaning of words?  Where am I excusing one side’s behavior by deflecting with a “what about that time the other guys did something the same or worse?”

Quit being an idiot about this. 

[Mikey 16,569]

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

On 7/17/2020 at 10:48 PM, Mikey said:

 

Do you ever read ANYTHING or do you just mindlessly respond out of a sense of MAGA duty?

I read plenty of things, and see real videos of subject scenes on various news stations. I do not believe things you post from your left-wing rags. They seldom to never contain anything truthful.

[homersapien 11,357]

13 hours ago, Mikey said:

I read plenty of things, and see real videos of subject scenes on various news stations. I do not believe things you post from your left-wing rags. They seldom to never contain anything truthful.

I report, you decide. 

Or in your case, refuse to consider at all.