Donald Trump is sorry

[DKW 86 7,410]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Ok.  I guess I misread this paragraph:

Close your eyes and vote for Biden...is a fail long term. Progressives get minimum of four but truthfully more like 8-12 years of nothing if we continue to support the DNC Handpicked Candidate. Dont be shocked when we move to a new party. This is not going down well with Progressives. Things are not like in the past. We know we got ****** with the Biden-Sanders Summitt. In short, we got nothing. And all the MSM hoopla cant cover up the Progressives getting served just one more "s*** Sandwich." 

It came off to me as a suggestion that perhaps progressives shouldn't settle for Biden and either stay home or give their vote to a more suitable candidate.  My bad.

Forgiven. I am talking strictly POLICIES. You get to the table to change POLICIES. The Summit was about POLICIES. If we go and vote for Biden, without something tangible in return, then our votes mean nothing but more of the same fail. Once Biden is in, then things are in motion for 4-8 years and maybe even 12. Biden is a huge fan of Wall Street, always has been. Anyone think he is going to change anything? his first statement was assure WS that nothing would change.

What has changed in America since 2000? or 2008?
Corporations get even more and bigger bailouts. 
Public Education is still poor. We average 15-20th across the globe in testing and results.
College Education is still getting even more expensive. 
Nationwide Healthcare got some work done on it but it is now failing again too. Still getting more expensive by the day.
We are still involved in Multiple Armed Conflicts.
We are still dropping sometimes 26K bombs a year.
We are still building more For-Profit-Prisons every year. 
The 1% still get Wealthier by the Day.
The Minimum Wage is still the same.
We have made some small changes for better environment.
Mental Health Issues, still the same. 
Hungry Kids everywhere, still the same. 
The nation is more torn apart than ever, and the answer is to trust the guy that was on the wrong side of almost all those issues.   

For what?  Maybe we need to focus on change and not MORE OF THE SAME. 

Ask yourselves, are you happy about any of that? Keep electing the status quo nothing will change.
Progressives want movement on one of those areas. The Status Quo should not be acceptable.  
Just Beat Trump!!! how about we beat Trump AND get M4A?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

23 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Wow, you missed it big time. I am not saying anything about the candidate AT ALL. NOTHING.

I am saying politics is a transactional business, If you want them to vote for a candidate that they couldnt care less for, and lets be frank, no one in the nation cares a damn about, then make a deal and give them something for their support. That's all. I never once mentioned anything about a candidate. 

But what if they don't need your votes?

As I stated in another thread, it wasn't progressives staying home that allowed Trump to win.  It was the traditional Democratic base staying home.  Perfect example is of the African-American vote in Wisconsin and Michigan.  Democrats did a crap job of speaking to those voters and turning them out in 2016.  Dems lost Wisconsin and Michigan by minimal margins.  Never forget that Trump actually got fewer votes in Wisconsin than Romney did in 2012.  That speaks volumes.

I appreciate your passion, but you give progressives too much credit for their actual voting value.

[homersapien 11,352]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The other thing I'll say is partly to echo what Brad mentioned:  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is not the majority.  Not even close.  It's vocal, (mostly) young, and energetic.  But it's not the bulk of the party.  And if it's not even the majority of the Democratic Party it goes without saying that it's not where the majority of Americans are.  So you simply can't let that group lead the party around by the nose.  You can hear them out, use some of their ideas, etc., but they can't drive the agenda or the kind of candidate you put in a general election.

I agree with this and I am about as "progressive" as they come. But I am also pragmatic.

[channonc 466]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The other thing I'll say is partly to echo what Brad mentioned:  The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is not the majority.  Not even close.  It's vocal, (mostly) young, and energetic.  But it's not the bulk of the party.  And if it's not even the majority of the Democratic Party it goes without saying that it's not where the majority of Americans are.  So you simply can't let that group lead the party around by the nose.  You can hear them out, use some of their ideas, etc., but they can't drive the agenda or the kind of candidate you put in a general election.

I would also add that they are also the most unreliable when it comes to voter turnout, and not just the younger progressives. That segment of the party just simply doesn't show up most of the time. They may yell and scream and are active on social media, but they are not reliable at the polls for anyone.

[DKW 86 7,410]

20 minutes ago, channonc said:

I would also add that they are also the most unreliable when it comes to voter turnout, and not just the younger progressives. That segment of the party just simply doesn't show up most of the time. They may yell and scream and are active on social media, but they are not reliable at the polls for anyone.

Now, you have been following this for some time I know. 

Are you serious. Really? 

Say it aint so...

 

[channonc 466]

10 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Now, you have been following this for some time I know. 

Are you serious. Really? 

Say it aint so...

 

I know several in my orbit. They have taken a page from the tea party... my way or the highway politics. If it isn't the "perfect" or "litmus test" candidate, they simply will not go to the polls. 

[DKW 86 7,410]

47 minutes ago, channonc said:

I know several in my orbit. They have taken a page from the tea party... my way or the highway politics. If it isn't the "perfect" or "litmus test" candidate, they simply will not go to the polls. 

Not anecdotes, i was asking about raw numbers. Look, I dont like Biden, Dislike Trump even more, but this is about getting something done with policy and legislation.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

26 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Not anecdotes, i was asking about raw numbers. Look, I dont like Biden, Dislike Trump even more, but this is about getting something done with policy and legislation.

Raw numbers?  Look at this year's primary results, particularly in early states.  Bernie's coalition did not vote in the same numbers.  Below analysis from Super Tuesday with regards to young progressive voters is a good example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/us/politics/bernie-sanders-young-voter-turnout.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/04/super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-youth-votes-fell-short-compared-2016/4947795002/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/sanders-banked-on-young-voters-heres-how-the-numbers-have-played-out

[aubiefifty 16,695]

[DKW 86 7,410]

On 7/23/2020 at 5:23 PM, aubiefifty said:

Trump is hilarious about his bragging over himself like a 5 year old, but I dont get the point of posting this. Obama won the Nobel Peace prize for 11 days in office. Everyone associated with it was embarrassed. Rahm Emanuel reamed the Norwegian Ambassador out over it. Why would Obama ever brag about this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-camp-angry-embarrassed-over-2009-nobel-prize-official-1.2644513

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/15/obama-nobel-peace-prize-norway-rebuke-war

more and more...

 

 

 

[DKW 86 7,410]

On 7/23/2020 at 2:02 PM, Brad_ATX said:

Raw numbers?  Look at this year's primary results, particularly in early states.  Bernie's coalition did not vote in the same numbers.  Below analysis from Super Tuesday with regards to young progressive voters is a good example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/us/politics/bernie-sanders-young-voter-turnout.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/04/super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-youth-votes-fell-short-compared-2016/4947795002/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/sanders-banked-on-young-voters-heres-how-the-numbers-have-played-out

Super Tuesday was one day and it was admittedly a bad one. 

But Sanders raised more money. 
Sanders raised more money from smaller donations.
Sanders held rallies that actually filled arenas. 

Biden has about 20 donors carrying him because no one wants him.
Biden's rallies were pathetic in comparison and that is being VERY GENEROUS.

. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

23 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Super Tuesday was one day and it was admittedly a bad one. 

But Sanders raised more money. 
Sanders raised more money from smaller donations.
Sanders held rallies that actually filled arenas. 

Biden has about 20 donors carrying him because no one wants him.
Biden's rallies were pathetic in comparison and that is being VERY GENEROUS.

. 

Money and rallies do not equal votes at the polls.  And ultimately, it's only votes that matter.

[DKW 86 7,410]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Money and rallies do not equal votes at the polls.  And ultimately, it's only votes that matter.

And we will see. I hope that all that confidence doesnt come back to bite some in the butt like 2016.

My issues are still with the policies. Why should people be shamed for not voting for policies that they do not support?

Biden isnt going to give Progressives anything and we know it. He has gone out of his way to make sure we know that Wall Street wins and we lose. We get it. 

The whole Summit thing was just a freakin joke. We got a crap sandwich out of the deal and we are supposed to cheer, fall in line and be happy.

Count me and bunch more out. As for me, I live in Alabama where Trump already has the 9 Electors and it means nothing for me to vote for who I really want anyway. But others in other states could change some things. 

[TexasTiger 12,800]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:57 PM, Brad_ATX said:

No.  My grandfather isn't lashing out.  He's a smart man, but not highly educated.  He worked hard his whole life, but now doesn't get out much and gets his news from whatever Fox tells him.  Everything else is evil and part of Satan's plan.  Add in some slight old Southern racism and voila, you have what my grandfather has turned into.  My grandfather and others in my family really believe that Trump is doing the Lord's work.  And while my grandfather has lost a step mentally (he thinks slower than he used to), he's still going to vote in November.

As for populism, you will see it die a quick death.  History in the U.S. shows that it rises about once a century, but that's it.  Ultimately populism isn't a strong governing philosophy and shows it's weakness during times of crisis.

And you're giving Trump's base far too much credit for its power.  Simply put, it's not large enough to win consistently.  He beat an extremely awful candidate in 2016 that was easy to vote against because people viscerally hated her.  Biden, while vanilla as hell, isn't someone people hate.  He's just there.  The numbers in 2016 and the 2018 midterms tell tell the story.  He won in 2016 due to record low turnout in key states (just look at Wisconsin) and Republican candidates got their asses kicked in 2018 in many places that went for Trump as a backlash against the man.  Those same 2018 voters are pushing the current polls in the Democrats favor as well.

Trump, nor his base, will ever again get such a perfect confluence of events that they received in 2016.

It’s not just “populism.” There’s a thriving, well-paying industry focused on convincing folks the Democrats are evil anti-American “demoncrats” that are a threat to everything freedom-loving Americans believe. That’s not easily going away.

[DKW 86 7,410]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

It’s not just “populism.” There’s a thriving, well-paying industry focused on convincing folks the Democrats are evil anti-American “demoncrats” that are a threat to everything freedom-loving Americans believe. That’s not easily going away.

Cue Fox News, Rush, Hannity, AM Radio, Info Wars, Breitbart, WND, etc, etc, etc.
God forgive Limbaugh but he has taught America that you can make huge bank in the Validation Industry. 

[aubiefifty 16,695]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Trump is hilarious about his bragging over himself like a 5 year old, but I dont get the point of posting this. Obama won the Nobel Peace prize for 11 days in office. Everyone associated with it was embarrassed. Rahm Emanuel reamed the Norwegian Ambassador out over it. Why would Obama ever brag about this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-camp-angry-embarrassed-over-2009-nobel-prize-official-1.2644513

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/15/obama-nobel-peace-prize-norway-rebuke-war

more and more...

 

 

 

he still won it and it is something trump will never ever do.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

My issues are still with the policies. Why should people be shamed for not voting for policies that they do not support?

Biden isnt going to give Progressives anything and we know it. He has gone out of his way to make sure we know that Wall Street wins and we lose. We get it. 

The whole Summit thing was just a freakin joke. We got a crap sandwich out of the deal and we are supposed to cheer, fall in line and be happy.

Well personally speaking, I don't expect all progressives to vote for Biden.  Just like a bunch of Republicans didn't vote for Trump four years ago.  And just like I would have sat out if Bernie had won the primary.

But as I've said, those numbers of progressives sitting out are not the concern.  Look at data instead of emotion.  I keep saying this because it's what 2018 taught me.  The election will be won by taking swing state suburbs and re-engaging traditional Democratic voters who stayed home in 2016.

Bernie and other progressives are making a calculated decision to support Biden.  He's their only chance at getting something, anything they want, even if it isn't a full measure.  We've had this discussion before, but again I say, getting 30% of something is better than 100% of nothing.  At least if he's in office, progressives will likely have a seat at the table and have their voice heard.

[DKW 86 7,410]

6 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

he still won it and it is something trump will never ever do.

No, Obama was GIVEN the NPP. He actually did nothing at that time to win it. 

[aubiefifty 16,695]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

No, Obama was GIVEN the NPP. He actually did nothing at that time to win it. 

i diasgree. what he did is what mikey and the others despise. he sought peace in the middle east when most wanted to burn it to the ground. they called it the apology tour. i call it the trying to show others some respect so maybe we do not breed more and more terrorists and destroy other countries like we did in iraq and helped in syria and libya. that is not nothing in my book and people banged him and still do for being drone happy but he did not destroy whole countries or  help them. look at mother teresa. she won it i think and has been proclaimed a saint but here is something for you to chew on.......

Although she had 517 missions in 100 countries at the time of her death, the study found that hardly anyone who came seeking medical care found it there. Doctors observed unhygienic, “even unfit,” conditions, inadequate food, and no painkillers — not for lack of funding, in which Mother Theresa’s world-famous order was swimming, but what the study authors call her “particular conception of suffering and death.”

“There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ’s Passion. The world gains much from their suffering,” Mother Teresa once told the unamused Christopher Hitchens.  i mean we can go on and on ghandi hated black folks. so why bang on obama? i hate some of the things he did but i still like him. but i like W as well altho he acvted pretty stupid and got no telling how many folks killed to include our own kids. see? whoever gave it to him thought he was worth it.............

[DKW 86 7,410]

27 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i diasgree. what he did is what mikey and the others despise. he sought peace in the middle east when most wanted to burn it to the ground. they called it the apology tour. i call it the trying to show others some respect so maybe we do not breed more and more terrorists and destroy other countries like we did in iraq and helped in syria and libya. that is not nothing in my book and people banged him and still do for being drone happy but he did not destroy whole countries or  help them. look at mother teresa. she won it i think and has been proclaimed a saint but here is something for you to chew on.......

Although she had 517 missions in 100 countries at the time of her death, the study found that hardly anyone who came seeking medical care found it there. Doctors observed unhygienic, “even unfit,” conditions, inadequate food, and no painkillers — not for lack of funding, in which Mother Theresa’s world-famous order was swimming, but what the study authors call her “particular conception of suffering and death.”

“There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ’s Passion. The world gains much from their suffering,” Mother Teresa once told the unamused Christopher Hitchens.  i mean we can go on and on ghandi hated black folks. so why bang on obama? i hate some of the things he did but i still like him. but i like W as well altho he acvted pretty stupid and got no telling how many folks killed to include our own kids. see? whoever gave it to him thought he was worth it.............

Your timeline is all wrong. Obama was sworn in 20-JAN-2009, the cutoff for being nominated to the NPP is February 1. He had 11 days in office. Nothing he does after 1-FEB-2009 can be considered nor added to the nomination. The "Apology Tour" didnt start until weeks afterward.  The links I provided earlier actually had the Norwegians admitting that they gave the award away that year. The Obama Administration was actually embarrassed. The Norwegians got embarrassed. The Nobel Family got embarrased. 

 

Quote

 

The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama’s vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons. (In case you havent noticed, we havent really changed at all since 2008 w/r to nukes.)

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama’s initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened. (He did all that, in 11 days?)

 

 

[DKW 86 7,410]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-camp-angry-embarrassed-over-2009-nobel-prize-official-1.2644513

Quote

 

Nobel secretary regrets Obama peace prize

Awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to US President Barack Obama in 2009 failed to achieve what the committee hoped it would, its ex-secretary has said.

Geir Lundestad told the AP news agency that the committee hoped the award would strengthen Mr Obama.

Instead, the decision was met with criticism in the US. Many argued he had not had any impact worthy of the award.

Mr Lundestad, writing in his memoir, Secretary of Peace, said even Mr Obama himself had been surprised.

"No Nobel Peace Prize ever elicited more attention than the 2009 prize to Barack Obama," Mr Lundestad writes.

"Even many of Obama's supporters believed that the prize was a mistake," he says. "In that sense the committee didn't achieve what it had hoped for".

 

Obama was given the NPP to STRENGTHEN his position...Not for anything he had done.